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Author Topic: Random Stuff  (Read 1169791 times)

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sudgy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1225 on: November 26, 2013, 04:24:20 pm »
0

We have a new player, I just introduced a coworker.
But everyone is already playing the game, there are just some people who never lose it because they don't know about it.

I don't play the game.  I used to, but not anymore.

People say that, not you are playing. Unfortunately its not a choice...

The way you win is by realizing how you can win.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Ozle

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1226 on: November 26, 2013, 04:25:57 pm »
0

We have a new player, I just introduced a coworker.
But everyone is already playing the game, there are just some people who never lose it because they don't know about it.

I don't play the game.  I used to, but not anymore.

People say that, not you are playing. Unfortunately its not a choice...

The way you win is by realizing how you can win.

Except there is no way to win. If you have found a way to win, you were playing another game.
You're still playing this one and losing im afraid
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Awaclus

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1227 on: November 26, 2013, 04:33:17 pm »
0

We have a new player, I just introduced a coworker.
But everyone is already playing the game, there are just some people who never lose it because they don't know about it.

I don't play the game.  I used to, but not anymore.

People say that, not you are playing. Unfortunately its not a choice...

The way you win is by realizing how you can win.
The statement is true: there is no way to win, thus, you can't realize how you can win, thus, there is no way to win.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1228 on: November 26, 2013, 04:53:36 pm »
+3

WELCOME TO SLAVERY
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ConMan

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1229 on: November 26, 2013, 05:06:01 pm »
+1

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mail-mi

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1230 on: November 26, 2013, 05:40:37 pm »
0

I've just lost the game....
I hate you.
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Tables

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1231 on: November 26, 2013, 06:19:00 pm »
0

It's taken me this long to realise I've just lost the game.

I'm somehow very good at reading or hearing that I've lost the game, and mentally not noting that means that I've actually just lost the game.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1232 on: November 26, 2013, 08:03:43 pm »
+1

So you were losing all along you just didn't know the end game conditions. Kind of like not knowing the 3-pile end game condition in Dominion.
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sudgy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1233 on: November 26, 2013, 09:01:40 pm »
+1

I just wrote one of those programs that take ages to finish.  I'm curious what it's thinking right now...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1234 on: November 28, 2013, 07:15:32 pm »
+3

I just wrote one of those programs that take ages to finish.  I'm curious what it's thinking right now...

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sudgy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1235 on: November 28, 2013, 07:31:09 pm »
0

Do any of the math people here see a pattern in the sequence of numbers in the text file I attached?  There's 10,000 numbers in the sequence to help you...  I feel like there should be some pattern since a lot of the numbers reappear a lot.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1236 on: November 28, 2013, 07:31:57 pm »
0

I can't see the file...

Edit: Nevermind, managed to open it anyway.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

sudgy

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1237 on: November 28, 2013, 07:48:11 pm »
+1

Alright, I had someone ask for me to post them in here.  You have been warned.

6, 3, 8, 16, 8, 0, 0, 8, 0, 0, 0, 13, 101, 0, 88, 21, 0, 0, 13, 101, 21, 0, 88, 13, 0, 0, 0, 13, 13, 0, 0, 21, 0, 0, 88, 93, -8, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 0, 13, 75, 0, 0, 106, 0, 0, 62, 26, 88, 0, -44, -8, 0, 0, 0, 75, 26, 0, -62, 114, 0, 0, 13, 75, 26, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 13, 62, 0, 18, 88, 0, 0, -44, 39, 114, 0, 49, 13, 0, 0, 0, 26, 26, 0, -62, 106, 0, 0, 93, -8, 13, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, -88, -62, 0, 0, 31, 0, 0, 93, 62, 106, 0, 18, 0, 0, 0, 0, -62, -44, 0, 0, 114, 0, 0, 49, 93, -8, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 0, 26, 44, 0, -62, 5, 0, 0, -62, 49, 93, 0, 26, 13, 0, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 119, -62, -88, 0, 0, 101, 0, 0, 0, 93, 93, 0, 0, 106, 0, 0, 18, 26, 26, 0, -49, 0, 0, 0, 0, -44, -49, 0, 0, 18, 0, 0, 0, 31, 49, 0, 0, -8, 0, 0, 0, 13, 106, 0, 44, 119, 0, 0, -8, 44, 39, 0, -62, -88, 0, 0, 0, -88, -62, 0, 26, 93, 0, 0, 26, 93, 93, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 0, 0, -8, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 44, 26, 119, 0, 49, -88, 0, 0, 0, -49, -75, 0, 13, 26, 0, 0, -62, 93, 93, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -8, 18, 0, 93, 26, 0, 0, -49, 119, 13, 0, 44, 26, 0, 0, 0, -49, -75, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0, -88, -62, 0, 0, 0, 49, 0, 0, 0, 39, 52, 0, 0, 106, 0, 0, 31, 106, 106, 0, 44, -13, 0, 0, 0, -8, -8, 0, 75, 39, 0, 0, -62, 119, 75, 0, 0, -62, 0, 0, 0, -62, 31, 0, 26, 52, 0, 0, 13, 52, 26, 0, -88, 93, 0, 0, 0, 93, 31, 0, 88, 13, 0, 0, 31, -8, -8, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, -62, 44, 0, 0, 119, 0, 0, 49, 70, 26, 0, 93, -88, 0, 0, 0, -75, 44, 0, 13, 18, 0, 0, 31, -88, -62, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 49, 75, 0, -49, 31, 0, 0, 52, 18, 106, 0, 93, 13, 0, 0, 0, 44, -49, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 0, -75, 44, 0, 0, 31, 0, 0, 150, 31, -88, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 0, 75, -26, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 62, 52, 39, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 93, 31, 0, -13, 106, 0, 0, 44, 150, 62, 0, -93, 0, 0, 0, 0, -8, -8, 0, 75, 26, 0, 0, 119, -49, -62, 0, 0, 75, 0, 0, 0, -26, -13, 0, 0, -18, 0, 0, 0, 31, -70, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, 0, 106, 13, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, -88, 31, 0, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 31, 62, 0, 88, 49, 0, 0, -49, 44, 31, 0, 145, -8, 0, 0, 0, 93, 93, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 44, 44, -62, 0, 0, 75, 0, 0, 0, 93, 49, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 93, 18, 18, 0, 0, -88, 0, 0, 0, 44, -49, 0, 13, 124, 0, 0, 26, 62, 31, 0, 0, -62, 0, 0, 0, -88, -62, 0, 31, 124, 0, 0, -26, 75, 93, 0, -49, 39, 0, 0, 0, 39, 52, 0, 119, 106, 0, 0, 93, 93, 93, 0, 0, 106, 0, 0, 0, -49, -18, 0, 0, 137, 0, 0, -44, 0, 44, 0, 137, 0, 0, 0, 0, -26, 26, 0, 0, 39, 0, 0, 119, 44, -49, 0, 0, 75, 0, 0, 0, 26, 150, 0, -44, -88, 0, 0, 93, -13, -62, 0, 26, -62, 0, 0, 0, -26, -44, 0, 0, 101, 0, 0, 44, -13, 62, 0, 0, 39, 0, 0, 0, -88, -13, 0, 0, 124, 0, 0, -31, 31, 31, 0, -13, 0, 0, 0, 0, 13, 44, 0, 0, 62, 0, 0, -93, 44, 93, 0, 0, -8, 0, 0, 0, -8, 44, 0, 75, 119, 0, 0, 5, 119, 119, 0, 93, -62, 0, 0, 0, -62, 44, 0, 124, 75, 0, 0, 75, -13, 93, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -70, 0, 0, 26, -44, 31, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 0, 13, 13, 0, 0, 137, 0, 0, 75, -62, -88, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -62, 31, 0, -62, 5, 0, 0, 0, 62, 93, 0, 88, 49, 0, 0, 0, 0, -49, 0, 0, 31, 0, 0, 145, 52, 0, 0, 0, 18, 0, 0, 0, 93, 31, 0, 0, 106, 0, 0, 62, 44, 44, 0, 0, -62, 0, 0, 0, -18, -49, 0, -62, 163, 0, 0, -93, 49, 93, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -8, 93, 0, 145, 18, 0, 0, 0, 119, 132, 0, 93, -75, 0, 0, 0, -49, -49, 0, 13, -13, 0, 0, 75, 75, 26, 0, 0, 31, 0, 0, 0, 0, -13, 0, 0, -13, 0, 0, 119, -62, -62, 0, 31, 44, 0, 0, 0, -44, -26, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, -49, 106, -13, 0, 0, 39, 0, 0, 0, 52, 145, 0, 119, 5, 0, 0, -62, 5, 93, 0, 31, 93, 0, 0, 0, -62, 0, 0, 0, 13, 0, 0, 31, -18, -49, 0, 0, 62, 0, 0, 0, -93, -44, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 137, 31, 31, 0, 101, 0, 0, 0, 0, 26, 119, 0, 0, 119, 0, 0, 0, 31, 119, 0, 0, -49, 0, 0, 0, -62, -18, 0, 31, 13, 0, 0, 31, 150, 57, 0, -44, -26, 0, 0, 0, 93, 93, 0, -49, -62, 0, 0, 26, 0, 0, 0, 0, -62, 0, 0, 0, -44, -26, 0, 0, -44, 0, 0, 93, 44, 44, 0, 26, 62, 0, 0, 0, 13, 106, 0, 93, 145, 0, 0, 0, -13, -88, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -88, -31, 0, -13, 31, 0, 0, -13, 31, 5, 0, -18, 31, 0, 0, 0, 44, 75, 0, 0, 49, 0, 0, 49, -18, -93, 0, 0, 93, 0, 0, 0, 39, 52, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 83, 44, 137, 0, 75, -13, 0, 0, 0, 31, 5, 0, -62, 119, 0, 0, 93, 75, 44, 0, 0, 44, 0, 0, 0, 44, 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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1238 on: November 28, 2013, 07:56:02 pm »
0

well, they're clearly not pure random, because 0 repeats a lot and they are all in the range of -199 to 199 it appears, but I doubt there is a pattern. More likely random w/weird probabilities for values... how were these numbers generated?
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1239 on: November 28, 2013, 07:58:18 pm »
0

Yeah, that's a really odd sequence of numbers. My initial observations after copying the numbers into Excel:

There's a lot of 0's. 5,700 of them, in fact. And plotting when they occur, it's very close to linear.

The power's of 2 are interesting. Each of the 2nth term is non-zero and except for t(2), are always larger than the nearby numbers.

Very few numbers only appear once - except for 6, 3 and 16 near the start, the first time a number appears for the first time is 189, the 8031st term. And considering this sequence (presumably) goes on forever, I would guess that it would be repeated, just at a higher term.

Like the 0's, negative numbers seem to be roughly linearly spread out.

I don't see any kind of obvious pattern, but there's definitely some kind of structure.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1240 on: November 28, 2013, 08:02:44 pm »
0

Argh, I hate computers counting from zero.  Somewhere in the making of it it missed the first number, which is 1.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1241 on: November 28, 2013, 08:09:10 pm »
+1


On the topic of xkcd and games (especially cookie clicker): http://castle.chirpingmustard.com
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1242 on: November 28, 2013, 08:31:09 pm »
0

well, they're clearly not pure random, because 0 repeats a lot and they are all in the range of -199 to 199 it appears, but I doubt there is a pattern. More likely random w/weird probabilities for values... how were these numbers generated?

Nah, that's very unlikely... far too much structure and things defying probability. For example given a term is 0 and the previous term was non-zero, there's a ~79% chance the next term is also 0, while the rate of getting 0 overall is only ~57%. While given the current and previous term are zero and the term before that is also zero, the chance the next term is zero is only ~44%, well below what should be ~57%. Last 3 were zero and one before them wasn't? 31% chance the next is zero. And there are still hundreds of strings of four or more zeros, so there's plenty of data points to look at.

I can't see anything else obvious I can say about the numbers, unfortunately.
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1243 on: November 28, 2013, 08:35:30 pm »
0

well, they're clearly not pure random, because 0 repeats a lot and they are all in the range of -199 to 199 it appears, but I doubt there is a pattern. More likely random w/weird probabilities for values... how were these numbers generated?

Oops, I missed your question at the end there.  It was related to the collatz conjecture.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1244 on: November 28, 2013, 08:39:25 pm »
0

well, they're clearly not pure random, because 0 repeats a lot and they are all in the range of -199 to 199 it appears, but I doubt there is a pattern. More likely random w/weird probabilities for values... how were these numbers generated?

Nah, that's very unlikely... far too much structure and things defying probability. For example given a term is 0 and the previous term was non-zero, there's a ~79% chance the next term is also 0, while the rate of getting 0 overall is only ~57%. While given the current and previous term are zero and the term before that is also zero, the chance the next term is zero is only ~44%, well below what should be ~57%. Last 3 were zero and one before them wasn't? 31% chance the next is zero. And there are still hundreds of strings of four or more zeros, so there's plenty of data points to look at.

I can't see anything else obvious I can say about the numbers, unfortunately.
hmmm, so the terms are clearly related to the previous terms... perhaps the previous term(s) just changes the probability of each value ocurring?
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1245 on: November 28, 2013, 08:51:54 pm »
0

well, they're clearly not pure random, because 0 repeats a lot and they are all in the range of -199 to 199 it appears, but I doubt there is a pattern. More likely random w/weird probabilities for values... how were these numbers generated?

Oops, I missed your question at the end there.  It was related to the collatz conjecture.

Huh. Mind saying how exactly, if you know?
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1246 on: November 28, 2013, 08:57:01 pm »
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Your observation about the powers of 2 terms might suggest that divisions make the output more positive, while 3n+1ing might make it negative? Just brainstorming here
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1247 on: November 28, 2013, 09:00:21 pm »
0

perhaps these numbers are somehow related to the number of iterations it takes for this collatz-conjecture-ish thing to balance out at where ever they do that? e.i, the first term is the number of iterations for 0, then 1, 2, etc. negative numbers are backwards? 0 is it never makes it? I don't know though really - I had to wikipedia what the collatz conjecture was :P
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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1248 on: November 28, 2013, 09:09:34 pm »
+1

I wasn't wanting to say too much about it because the people who knew what it was would just find it preposterous to look for a pattern, but oh well.  I'm pretty sure that if there is a pattern to the sequence the Collatz Conjecture is true.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Random Stuff
« Reply #1249 on: November 28, 2013, 09:12:30 pm »
0

I wasn't wanting to say too much about it because the people who knew what it was would just find it preposterous to look for a pattern, but oh well.  I'm pretty sure that if there is a pattern to the sequence the Collatz Conjecture is true.

Haha, the old trick of setting a research problem as a homework assignment and hope an undergrad solves it for you.

That's quite a big claim you're making there. Notably what do you mean by if there's 'a pattern'? As in if it can be written as an explicit formula?
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