Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheMunch]

Welcome to RMM4: PokeAwesome

Signups are Closed!

Players List:

1.  Robz888 - Cubone
2.  Captain_Frisk - Mew Companion Mastermind, Killed Night 1
3.  Eevee - Eevee TRAITOR Beloved Specialist, Killed Night 1
4.  Archetype - Aron
5.  Dsell - Scyther
6.  Jimmmmm - Machop Companion Gladiator, Lynched Day 1
7.  Jorbles - Snorlax traitor Sleeper Agent, Killed Night 2
8.  Insomniac - Gastly
9.  Tables - Bagon
10.  Axxle - Totodile Companion Time Delayed Jack of All Trades, Killed Night 2
11.  Cayvie - Pidgey Companion RoleJailStopKeeper, Lynched Day 2
12.  Joth - Psyduck
13.  Galz - Deino


Game Setup

1.  Each player will take on the role of a different pokemon; this selection process should have already taken place by game start.

2.  Each player will receive a role PM including their pokemon, role name, and alignment.  It will also include the list of moves and abilities that will be available to their pokemon throughout the game.

3.  Voting in this game will be different than most mafia games.  Instead of voting for a player to be lynched, the town will be voting for two pokemon to do battle.  Two vote tallies will be monitored simultaneously for a winner and a loser.  Players may vote for both the winner and the loser and indicate a vote with the following format:
WinVote: <pokemon>
LoseVote: <pokemon>

4a.  Each vote count will be separately locked the moment it reaches majority.  After one of the vote counts has been locked, discussion will continue prior to deadline until the other vote count has been resolved (eg if a winner is chosen, discussion will continue until a loser is chosen; no votes could be changed regarding the winner).  If deadline is reached and only one votecount has reached majority, the other votecount will be decided by whichever player is leading at the time of the deadline.  If neither votecount has reached majority, the game will go to night with no fight.  If there is a tie at deadline, thread will be locked and a hidden democracy will take place to determine the outcome (each player will pm the name of which of the tied candidates they would like to resolve; majority rules).

4b.  Valid Vote target:  Once a player/pokemon has been locked as either the winner or the loser, they are no longer a valid vote target for the other vote count (loser or winner respectively).  A player/pokemon that is not a valid vote target will have their current vote count set to 0, all players currently voting for that player are automatically unvote'd, and any vote attempted on that player will not be recorded.

5.  The results of the fight is as follows.  The player that is voted to be the loser will faint (see: dead.  But this is pokemon; no one dies).  The player that is voted the winner will win the fight and gain experience such that he/she evolves.  This evolution will result in an improvement or modification to their powers.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players.  The action of these pokemon dying will distribute its experience to random other players, causing them to evolve.  The number of evolutions that will occur will be equal to the deceased pokemons current stage (eg if squirtle were to be night killed, another random pokemon would be evolved 1 stage.  If Blastoise were to be night killed, three random pokemon would be evolved one stage.  These three pokemon are chosen randomly and could potentially be the same pokemon, all unique, or some combination thereof).

7.  All night actions are associated with a move your pokemon can perform from the games.  All night actions should be submitted by pm to the mods in the form:  <Pokemon> uses <move> on <target pokemon>.

****************

This is my first time modding a forum mafia game and subsequently writing up a rules list.  If anything is unclear or missing please ask me and I would be happy to clarify.  I think this could be a very interesting and fun setup and am very interested to see how this plays out.

Shraeye will be a very necessary (if not sometimes trollish) co-mod.

[TheMunch]

Mafia Ruleset (shamelessly stolen and modified from eHalcyon's RMM3 intro post)

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action (basically everyone) your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start).  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  If you have a compulsive role, it will be randomized.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage) unless otherwise specified.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase unless your action is compulsive.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
7. This game will generally have 2 week deadlines.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent. 
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue (or really any color) text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will NOT be issued automatically.  It is your responsibility to watch out for lurkers. A prod will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

[shraeye]

Day Starts:
Day 2: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5679.msg163711#msg163711

Vote Count 2.8
LoseVote
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables
{L-1}cayvie (5): Insomniac, jotheonah, Jorbles, Robz888, Voltgloss

Not voting (3): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Axxle]

WinVote: Axxle for being awesome
LoseVote: Archetype for stealing my first pick

[Galzria]

I'm town, fwiw.

Just getting that out of the way now.

[Galzria]

WinVote: Axxle for being awesome
LoseVote: Archetype for stealing my first pick

You're not as awesome as me. We already discussed this.

Winvote: Galzria
Losevote: Axxle

Better.

[Jorbles]

Zzzzzzzzz.

[jotheonah]

I think we should use our winvote strategically on someone who's evolution will give the town a real benefit. Without outing PRs (such as they are) is there a safe way for people to indicate "you should evolve me" that doesn't also indicate "scum should NK me ASAP"?

[jotheonah]

Also, Happy Birthday TheMunch.

[raerae]

tag, happy birthday munchman

[Eevee]

Happy birthday Munch, I hope you are town too! Like myself. Yeah I claim town.

[Galzria]

Happy birthday Munch, I hope you are town too! Like myself. Yeah I claim town.

Can Mod's be town?

[Axxle]

Is buddying up to the mod a scumtell?

Happy Muchday, TheBirth!

[Eevee]

Happy birthday Munch, I hope you are town too! Like myself. Yeah I claim town.

Can Mod's be town?

Lol I forgot, right. Sure as hell hope he isn't scum though.

[Jorbles]

Zzz.
Zzz zzz.

Zzz zzz.

Losevote: jotheonah
Losevote: raerae
Losevote: Eevee
Losevote: Axxle

[Tables]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

[Jorbles]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Winvote: Jorbles

[Tables]

Oh wait guys we're totally doing this wrong.

Bagon Bagon Bagon! Ba-ba-bagon!

[Galzria]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

That's...

Actually a pretty good suggestion! (Not shocked that you would dare to have a good idea, just shocked that I hadn't thought of it! )

[Eevee]

Yeah, Tables is my first mini-townread, that's indeed a good idea. Also, nice to meet you buddy!

[Tables]

It's actually a fairly standard method of checking out important people, more common in outside contact games (i.e. where people are allowed to send private messages to one another... it's an extremely different game, as you might expect), where someone will basically set themselves up as town leader, cop(s) will secretly check them and if nobody speaks up, they're considered clear. Obviously you need specific settings for it to work, but it's a decent strategy.

[Galzria]

It's actually a fairly standard method of checking out important people, more common in outside contact games (i.e. where people are allowed to send private messages to one another... it's an extremely different game, as you might expect), where someone will basically set themselves up as town leader, cop(s) will secretly check them and if nobody speaks up, they're considered clear. Obviously you need specific settings for it to work, but it's a decent strategy.

I've never played that style, so props to you for bringing something new to the table here.

[Tables]

Now we're going off topic, but I could try and create a game of it. But serious warning, it is a very different game, even if it is still usually called mafia.

[Galzria]

It's actually a fairly standard method of checking out important people, more common in outside contact games (i.e. where people are allowed to send private messages to one another... it's an extremely different game, as you might expect), where someone will basically set themselves up as town leader, cop(s) will secretly check them and if nobody speaks up, they're considered clear. Obviously you need specific settings for it to work, but it's a decent strategy.

I've never played that style, so props to you for bringing something new to the table here.

Haha. Pun NOT intended, OR noticed until I reread.

[Tables]

So anyway is it actually day 1? Mods?

[Dsell]

Let's decide who wins battles through pokemon trivia games.

[Tables]

Let's decide who wins battles through HYPER BEAM IN YO FACE.

...

Can I even learn Hyper Beam?

[Dsell]

Not sure about Bagon but Salamence sure can.

[Eevee]

I dont want to battle at all, my fur might get dirty.

[Galzria]

Let's decide who wins battles through pokemon trivia games.

What's a Pokemon?

[Tables]

Not sure about Bagon but Salamence sure can.

I think that every final evolution can learn it, plus a few earlier ones (e.g. ones who were final evolutions before later gens, plus Dratini and a few others. So Syther can, Bagon can't.

...

Derp.

[Dsell]

Not sure about Bagon but Salamence sure can.

I think that every final evolution can learn it, plus a few earlier ones (e.g. ones who were final evolutions before later gens, plus Dratini and a few others. So Syther can, Bagon can't.

...

Derp.

Yeah. I wasn't sure if Bagon was in the Dratini category or not since it is the Dratini equivalent of the 3rd gen, the pseudo-legendary dragon. (I checked and Bagon indeed cannot.)

And yeah, I'm gonna be pretty geeky-outy about this thread.

[jotheonah]

I am a complete noob beyond 2nd gen, btw.

[TheMunch]

So anyway is it actually day 1? Mods?

It is in fact day 1.

[shraeye]

To be official (TheMunch: sorry for starting without posting flavor, how dare I!):

You awaken amongst the tall grass, let out of your pokeballs by a mysterious force.  You are shocked to find your benevolent trainer, TheMunch (he never claimed to be anything else) lying dead amongst you.  With his body mangled and bloody with no tracks coming or going, you knew that his death must have been the works of one of your motley crew.  You look around at the other 12 of TheMunch's favorite companions, squinty eyed, knowing that some number are guilty of the most dastardly deed of murdering their master, those traitors.  It is your job to find out who is responsible and no one will get off the hook by simply fainting.  No, there will be blood.  You will have your revenge.

Mod note: The most recent vote count as well as the current status of each pokemon (alive/dead/evolution) in picture form will be kept in post number 3


Day 1 Start

Vote Count 1.1

LoseVote
Archetype (1): Axxle
Axxle (2): Galzria, Jorbles

Not voting (10): Archetype, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, Insomniac, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

WinVote
Axxle (1): Axxle
Galzria (1): Galzria
Tables (1): Tables
Jorbles (1): Jorbles

Not voting (9): Archetype, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, Insomniac, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

[Eevee]

I dont approve of anything past gen1. Really loved that though.

[Tables]

LoseVote: Eevee

Firstly because who would suspect an Eevee? Too cute to be mafia, right, therefore, must be mafia.
Secondly because Eevee sounds like EV, and man, everyone hates EV training.
Thirdly because disapproving on Black and White, which had the best single player of any pokemon game to date (srsly).

[Eevee]

Shortest buddydom ever, Tables.

[Tables]

[Tables]

Okay so Galz buddied up to me pretty quick earlier, what do people make of that?

[Eevee]

Nothing. It was legitimately a good idea.

[Galzria]

Okay so Galz buddied up to me pretty quick earlier, what do people make of that?

Slanderous lies. I buddied up to your idea, not you.

[Tables]

Hey, it wasn't meant as an accusation. And I seemed to recall you saying it gave you a slight town-read on me. Actually, looking back, that was Eevee. Yay for not remember things that happened about an hour ago!

[Galzria]

I also wasn't serious in my response, sorry if it read that way. The idea WAS good.

[Jimmmmm]

So to keep in line with the flavour, Munch, are we supposed to vote for the actual Pokemon name?

In which case, Winvote: Machop
Losevote: Eevee

Can't remember who anyone else is yet...

[TheMunch]

So to keep in line with the flavour, Munch, are we supposed to vote for the actual Pokemon name?

You can use whichever you want, pokemon or f.ds name.  As long as you guys can keep track of both so can the mods.  We will be using f.ds name in the vote counts.

[cayvie]

this whole winvote thing is interesting.

i feel like it's like painting a big red X on the recipient's back

[Archetype]

this whole winvote thing is interesting.

i feel like it's like painting a big red X on the recipient's back

I guess. But whoever wins does get to be Doctored for that night.

[cayvie]

oh hey, they do

sweet

[TheMunch]

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players.  The action of these pokemon dying will distribute its experience to random other players, causing them to evolve.  The number of evolutions that will occur will be equal to the deceased pokemons current stage (eg if squirtle were to be night killed, another random pokemon would be evolved 1 stage.  If Blastoise were to be night killed, three random pokemon would be evolved one stage.  These three pokemon are chosen randomly and could potentially be the same pokemon, all unique, or some combination thereof).

For reference: Relevant rule regarding winners immunity to night kills and results of night killing higher evolution pokemon.

[Dsell]

Do evolutions occur before the night or sometime during? So when we vote for someone to win, do they get the upgraded power that night?

[cayvie]

rules question:

are fully evolved pokemon included in the random selection? that is, could some of the experience wind up being wasted?

[TheMunch]

Do evolutions occur before the night or sometime during? So when we vote for someone to win, do they get the upgraded power that night?

The winner will be evolved before the night and can use its upgraded power that night.

are fully evolved pokemon included in the random selection? that is, could some of the experience wind up being wasted?

Yes, some experience can wind up being wasted.

[Axxle]

Why is snorlax not munchlax?


Is it because he's scum so they need to start with some power?


Losevote: Snorlax

[Tables]

Hmm, that's actually a good point... But then again Munchlax is a baby pokemon, which are slightly different from unevolved in some ways.

[cayvie]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

[Eevee]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

what do you mean "the part"?

zing!

[Tables]

UnLoseVote: Eevee for zinging Cayvie.

Urghh... we really need to start getting discussion started, but nobody has said anything stupid to jump on and kickstart it yet.

[Insomniac]

It's pretty hard to get out of RVS with the win vote thing because everyone just wants to win themselves.

[Axxle]

Later on when people develop solid townreads, we should win vote them, probably.

[Eevee]

Winvote: Tables Let's reward the man for his good idea! Couldn't we just decide everyone has to winvote someone but themself?

[Tables]

I'm fine with being winvoted and inspected.

I should point out, there's possible flaws in the plan. There could be a mafia Godfather (investigation immune), a lawyer (makes mafia look innocent)/framer (makes town look guilty) or other possible roles.

For now, though, it might be best to treat this as though it were a normal mafia, i.e. we JUST focus on who to losevote, and later we choose the winvote candidate. In other words, Axxle is right.

So far Frisk and Robz haven't posted, and there may be others.

LoseVote: Robz for silence,

[Eevee]

I think not posting yet is actually a ever so slight town tell, but we still need to get them out from the hiding.

[Tables]

Oh, I actually agree that it's definitely not a scum tell. But they're two of our best players, I want them active.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz

Winvote: Tables
Winvote: Jorbles

[Captain_Frisk]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

New rule - no more "I suck at day1"

LoseVote: Cayvie

WinVote: Frisk

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm fine with being winvoted and inspected.

I should point out, there's possible flaws in the plan. There could be a mafia Godfather (investigation immune), a lawyer (makes mafia look innocent)/framer (makes town look guilty) or other possible roles.

For now, though, it might be best to treat this as though it were a normal mafia, i.e. we JUST focus on who to losevote, and later we choose the winvote candidate. In other words, Axxle is right.

So far Frisk and Robz haven't posted, and there may be others.

LoseVote: Robz for silence,

Sorry - i was paying attention to all those games I neglected this week.  I'm here now.

[jotheonah]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

I didn't think this was "I'm bad at day 1"

I thought it was "I'm bad at Pokemon"

[Galzria]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

I didn't think this was "I'm bad at day 1"

I thought it was "I'm bad at Pokemon"

That is indeed how I read it, as I'm completely lost myself when it comes to Pokemon chatter.

[Insomniac]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

I didn't think this was "I'm bad at day 1"

I thought it was "I'm bad at Pokemon"

That is indeed how I read it, as I'm completely lost myself when it comes to Pokemon chatter.

Says the guy who picked Hydreigon

[Galzria]

oh god

this is the part of the game where i'm going to be useless

I didn't think this was "I'm bad at day 1"

I thought it was "I'm bad at Pokemon"

That is indeed how I read it, as I'm completely lost myself when it comes to Pokemon chatter.

Says the guy who picked Hydreigon

Deino looked cute on the index page! Like a little puppy!

[ashersky]

WinVote: That cat that the bad guys have on the show.

Not really.  Tagging to follow!

[Dsell]

Don't worry guys, I'm good at Pokemon and I'm town (a companion).

Yeah Deino/Zweilous/Hydreigon was a pretty cool choice, Galz, whether you realize it or not.

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

[Tables]

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

Maybe this will fly over your heads, but this is bugging me.

(inb4tablesiswastingtime)

[Dsell]

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

Maybe this will fly over your heads, but this is bugging me.

(inb4tablesiswastingtime)

It's bugging you that he's dark type or that I am picking on him for being dark type? I am like 93.5% joking.

[Galzria]

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

Maybe this will fly over your heads, but this is bugging me.

(inb4tablesiswastingtime)

It's bugging you that he's dark type or that I am picking on him for being dark type? I am like 93.5% joking.

I'm like the theme character from every movie ever made. Dark, unloved, forgotten, pushed aside, made fun of, etc. Think Edward Scissorhands! But really I'm a calm, loving soul, who just wants to be as one and at peace with the world.

Yes, my element is darkness, but that's only on the outside. My inner beauty is town.

[jotheonah]

What's up with this game? Nobody's posted for like a day! How can we get the ball rolling again?

[shraeye]

With a Vote Count!

Vote Count 1.2
LoseVote
Axxle (2): Galzria, Jorbles
Eevee (1): Jimmmmm
Jorbles (1): Axxle
Robz888 (1): Tables
cayvie (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (7): Archetype, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888

WinVote
Axxle (1): Axxle
Galzria (1): Galzria
Tables (1): Tables, Eevee
Jorbles (1): Jorbles
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Captain_Frisk (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (6): Archetype, cayvie, Dsell, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

[Insomniac]

Robz is back get in here robz.

[Eevee]

I think everyone should give a winvote to someone
but themself so we can get this thing moving.

[Dsell]

Winvote: Eevee

Because we all want to know what evolution you will choose.

[Dsell]

Winvote: Eevee

[Axxle]

Winvote: Tables

[Axxle]

Winvote: Tables

(his idea was ridiculously protown)

[Dsell]

I could definitely be down for giving a winvote to Tables on the back of his suggestion too.

[Galzria]

Winvote: Insomniac
Losevote: Joth

It's not a game of Mafia until I've accused Joth or vice versa.

Why Insomniac? I don't know. I've little to go on so why not? Tables had a good idea, but then immediately points out that there are things that could mess with the results. I still think his idea is good, but he could be trying for quick and easy town points knowing he has a role that "messes with the results".

Eh, I'm good winvoting or losevoting whomever at this point. There's nothing really to go on.

[jotheonah]

Can a Poke-Expert post a list of people with only one evolution, so no one wastes their winvote?

[jotheonah]

LoseVote: Galzria

Let's defintiely get that over with.

[Dsell]

Snorlax (Jorbles) and Mew (C_F) cannot evolve. All others can.

[Galzria]

Snorlax (Jorbles) and Mew (C_F) cannot evolve. All others can.

What are they worth in experience if we lynch them?

[Dsell]

Eevee (Eevee), Scyther (Dsell), Psyduck (Jotheonah), and Cubone (Robz) can all evolve just once.

The rest can evolve twice.

[Insomniac]

Winvote: Tables I'm definetly getting a town vibe off of his posts, not even just the idea but alot of his posts have been pretty pro town.

Losevote: Captain_Frisk I have to vote for Frisk before RVS is over.

[Dsell]

Snorlax (Jorbles) and Mew (C_F) cannot evolve. All others can.

What are they worth in experience if we lynch them?

Just one unless maybe the mods have some weird thing in mind with Jorbles. Technically, Snorlax is an evolved pokemon already, but I actually think it'll be worth just 1 evolution in terms of lynching.

[jotheonah]

I'll Winvote: Insomniac, too.

Townvibe so far, sheeping Galz, Gengar is pretty cool.

[Captain_Frisk]

Can a Poke-Expert post a list of people with only one evolution, so no one wastes their winvote?

I believe that I have only one - per side discussion with the mod.  Apparently my limited knowledge of pokemania (what i've seen in smash brothers) has screwed me over.

[Dsell]

Did you think Mew evolves into Mewtwo?

[Captain_Frisk]

Did you think Mew evolves into Mewtwo?

I didn't think anything?  I don't know anything about evolving pokemon....

[Dsell]

Did you think Mew evolves into Mewtwo?

I didn't think anything?  I don't know anything about evolving pokemon....

I doubt you are really screwed. I think the mods said something about adjusting power based on number of evolutions, but saying any more would be fishing.

[jotheonah]

You know if that's the case, the saavy scum player might have selected a single-form Pokemon in order to be more powerful from the beginning ...

Oh wait, we picked Pokemon before we got alignments. NEVER MIND.

[Galzria]

Here's a conversation starter:

I think it's best if I do not get winvoted. -  At least... As far as my role is concerned (leveling up is fine though). However, if we are using the winvote as a protected investigation tool, I'll be happy to go through it and do nothing that night.

[Captain_Frisk]

So for those who want to do the homework:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charmander#Evolution

This was the site that mod sent me to figure out who has what evolutions possible.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.

Winvote: Tables.

[Axxle]

Here's a conversation starter:

I think it's best if I do not get winvoted. -  At least... As far as my role is concerned (leveling up is fine though). However, if we are using the winvote as a protected investigation tool, I'll be happy to go through it and do nothing that night.

This brings up an interesting point.  We should wait for claims like this ("We shouldn't winvote me") before we winhammer anyone.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.
Zzz zzz.

ZZZ.

[Insomniac]

Here's a conversation starter:

I think it's best if I do not get winvoted. -  At least... As far as my role is concerned (leveling up is fine though). However, if we are using the winvote as a protected investigation tool, I'll be happy to go through it and do nothing that night.

Why would you have to do nothing that night? Your doctored not jailkept right?

[Galzria]

Here's a conversation starter:

I think it's best if I do not get winvoted. -  At least... As far as my role is concerned (leveling up is fine though). However, if we are using the winvote as a protected investigation tool, I'll be happy to go through it and do nothing that night.

Why would you have to do nothing that night? Your doctored not jailkept right?

Correct. But to answer more would be to make a rolefisher out of you, and I'm sure that's not what you intended.

[Axxle]

Now I'm getting paranoid.  Scum watcher could very much be a thing.

Posted in the wrong thread...

[jotheonah]

Jorbles, is this a bit or do you have a post restriction? If it's a PR, respond with just 3 Z's.

[eHalcyon]

FOS: TheMunch

How were you carrying more than 6 Pokemon?  I call shenanigans.

/posting so I can follow

[Jorbles]

ZZZ

[Galzria]

Jorbles, is this a bit or do you have a post restriction? If it's a PR, respond with just 3 Z's.

What is normally done in Pokemon to wake up a Snorlax?

[Insomniac]

Jorbles, is this a bit or do you have a post restriction? If it's a PR, respond with just 3 Z's.

What is normally done in Pokemon to wake up a Snorlax?

In gen 1 you had to acquire and use the pokeflute

[Dsell]

Jorbles, is this a bit or do you have a post restriction? If it's a PR, respond with just 3 Z's.

What is normally done in Pokemon to wake up a Snorlax?

Pokeflute!

Use pokeflute on Jorbles.

[Tables]

Winvote: Insomniac
Losevote: Joth

It's not a game of Mafia until I've accused Joth or vice versa.

Why Insomniac? I don't know. I've little to go on so why not? Tables had a good idea, but then immediately points out that there are things that could mess with the results. I still think his idea is good, but he could be trying for quick and easy town points knowing he has a role that "messes with the results".

Eh, I'm good winvoting or losevoting whomever at this point. There's nothing really to go on.

Well, if I had such a role, why would I point it out? Okay, some slight town points, but it would probably be FAR more effective to get someone upgraded, then use said role to screw things up (well okay this only works if I were a framer, or were already a Godfather).

Anyway I'm okay with being upgraded (not trying to beg for it, just saying there's noting really bad about it happening). It paints a target on my head but eh, I'm protected for one night and a few people will be evolved by then so that's alright.

LoseVote: Jorbles for making a few TOO many in character posts. I mean, it's getting to the point where Bagon Bagon Ba-gon!

[jotheonah]

Tables, idk if he has control over it. It seems to be a post restriction.

Of course, when I was mod in BMV, I learned just how many post restrictions are fake.

[Galzria]

Tables, idk if he has control over it. It seems to be a post restriction.

Of course, when I was mod in BMV, I learned just how many post restrictions are fake.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I wasn't in that game.

I hate biting.

[Insomniac]

Tables, idk if he has control over it. It seems to be a post restriction.

Of course, when I was mod in BMV, I learned just how many post restrictions are fake.

I faked a post restriction because its bastard mafia and I wanted to coast, then everyone went about and devised a way for me to talk, clever people wanting my input.

[Tables]

Tables, idk if he has control over it. It seems to be a post restriction.

Of course, when I was mod in BMV, I learned just how many post restrictions are fake.

Hmm, that's possible. Actually would be a possible balance to his power.

UnLoseVote: Jorbles

[Archetype]

Really want to pay attention to this game (love the idea) but have been modding in DoMafia.

WinVote: Tables. That could have just been a scum ploy, but if it wasn't, great suggestion.

[Jorbles]

Zzz
Zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.

Zzz zzz zzz?

[Captain_Frisk]

Zzz
Zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.

Zzz zzz zzz?

This is like chicken code.  He's pointing us to post 117.

[Archetype]

So he's powerful, but can only talk in Z's. He can't evolve. Which sucks for him.

I don't think this automatically makes him Town. Like Insom said, post restrictions can be easily faked.

[Tables]

Zzz
Zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz.

Zzz zzz zzz?

This is like chicken code.  He's pointing us to post 117.

Well spotted. All his posts look like they are, in fact.

Which makes me wonder, did Frisk spot this because he spotted it (most likely)... or did Frisk spot this because he knows Jorbles is faking it as they're both scum (v. unlikely, but... possible if they'd planned it). Not going to act on that, just throwing it out.

[Jorbles]

Zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz!

Zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz

Zzz zzz

Winvote: Frisk
Winvote: Tables

[Archetype]

Which makes me wonder, did Frisk spot this because he spotted it (most likely)... or did Frisk spot this because he knows Jorbles is faking it as they're both scum (v. unlikely, but... possible if they'd planned it). Not going to act on that, just throwing it out.

It's possible. If one flips scum, this interaction should definitally be noted.

[Axxle]

What is chicken code and why do you assume we know it?

[Archetype]

What is chicken code and why do you assume we know it?

It's a code created in Jorble's own Mafia game. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it was created because the Mafia (Sea Hags) could turn other players into Chickens, forcing them to only post with the word 'Chicken'.

The code was created to have some form of communication.

[Galzria]

Winvote: Jorbles - for thinking to use it where there are players who would know it.
Winvote: Frisk - for recognizing it as such.
Winvote: Tables - because it seems the popular thing to do and I like the way he's thinking this game. If nothing else, guaranteeing he doesn't die tonight if he's town is a very good thing, evolution aside.

[eHalcyon]

What is chicken code and why do you assume we know it?

It's a code created in Jorble's own Mafia game. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it was created because the Mafia (Sea Hags) could turn other players into Chickens, forcing them to only post with the word 'Chicken'.

The code was created to have some form of communication.

f.ds has such rich culture and history.

[Eevee]

Winvote: Galzria

His thing about not wanting to be winvoted is just the kind of thing I think only town ever says.

[Eevee]

Winvote: Galzria

His thing about not wanting to be winvoted is just the kind of thing I think only town ever says.

Still totally fine with Tables though as well.

[shraeye]

WinVote Locked
Vote Count 1.3
LoseVote
Axxle (1): Jorbles
Eevee (1): Jimmmmm
Jorbles (1): Axxle
cayvie (1): Captain_Frisk
jotheonah (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1): Insomniac

Not voting (6): Archetype, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, Robz888, Tables

WinVote--LOCKED
{Winner} Tables (7): Tables, Eevee, Axxle, Insomniac, Jorbles, Archetype, Galzria
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Captain_Frisk (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1): Dsell
Insomniac (1): jotheonah

Not voting (2): cayvie, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

[shraeye]

Note that Eevee's last winvote for Galzria came after lock and will not count.  Similarly no winvotes will be accepted for the remainder of day 1.  Feel free to continue to hunt for your losevote target.

Also note Tables is no longer a valid losevote target.

[Eevee]

Oh, okay. Well, as I said perfectly fine with Tables as well. Good for meta reasons too, encouraging strong pro-town day 1 game is actually really good in the big picture.

[Captain_Frisk]

What is chicken code and why do you assume we know it?

I think that when you see multiple lines of zzz, it indicates the post number that he wants to emphasize.

Each line is one digit,and the # of zzzs is the number that goes in the digit

So

Zzz zzz zzz
Zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz

 Would be 314

[Captain_Frisk]

On a standalone line, one chicken was yes, 2 was no, and 3 was go cluck yourself/ other

[Eevee]

I don't think appearing to have a posting restriction is a town tell at all fwiw.

Jorbles, do you know if there is a way to help you out of that? We can use the same code we did in chicken mafia, zzz for yes, zzz zzz for no and zzz zzz zzz for something else.

[Axxle]

Lol...

But now I kind of want to lynch Jorbles.  It's too convenient that he has a posting restriction for which he can use a code developed from his game.

[Tables]

Oh my, didn't notice we were that close to me getting winvoted for the day.

I really wish I knew what I was doing that looked so town this game. I play like this on other forums, and get called out for being scummy . I've had times I've been in 2+ mafias, one as town, one as mafia, and was suspect mafia in the one I was town and suspect town in the one I was mafia.

Right well now I'm winvote locked I'm gonna go and lurk and be scummy.

On a more serious note, I'm actually slightly concerned about how quickly I built up to getting winvoted.

I think I might want to start taking serious notes on this game.

[Jimmmmm]

Just letting you know I'll be VLA over the weekend. I'm at work now, so I can't be particularly active, and I'll be going away pretty much as soon as I get home. Don't have a smartphone, either, so won't be able to post at all. I'll be back my Sunday afternoon, so Saturday night/Sunday morning forum time.

[Archetype]

Lol...

But now I kind of want to lynch Jorbles.  It's too convenient that he has a posting restriction for which he can use a code developed from his game.

He also could be faking have a post restriction, just to seem townier.

[Eevee]

Lol...

But now I kind of want to lynch Jorbles.  It's too convenient that he has a posting restriction for which he can use a code developed from his game.

He also could be faking have a post restriction, just to seem townier.

I think that's exactly what Axxle was implying.

[Tables]

He could also genuinely have a posting restriction. We should set him up a code.

Three lines of Zzz (or four) is referencing a post number

Zzz on it's own is yes/agreement
Zzz zzz on it's own is no/disagreement

...I'm sure there's lots of other possibilities we could do. But Jorbles what do you think to that as a start point (yes/no?)

[Axxle]

He could also genuinely have a posting restriction. We should set him up a code.

Three lines of Zzz (or four) is referencing a post number

Zzz on it's own is yes/agreement
Zzz zzz on it's own is no/disagreement

...I'm sure there's lots of other possibilities we could do. But Jorbles what do you think to that as a start point (yes/no?)

That's the code he's already using

[Archetype]

He could also genuinely have a posting restriction. We should set him up a code.

Three lines of Zzz (or four) is referencing a post number

Zzz on it's own is yes/agreement
Zzz zzz on it's own is no/disagreement

...I'm sure there's lots of other possibilities we could do. But Jorbles what do you think to that as a start point (yes/no?)

We already have a code for him to use. It's the Chicken Code.

[Archetype]

Ninja'd by Axxle

[Tables]

Maybe I should look things up before speaking.

Meh, where's the fun in that? I'll go find the code. Or go find the link to the code someone probably already posted.

[cayvie]

ok ok what's going on now

[Eevee]

loservote: cayvie just a gut feeling, reminds me of myself as scum in III. why are you so lost cayvie?

[cayvie]

loservote: cayvie just a gut feeling, reminds me of myself as scum in III. why are you so lost cayvie?

i lost internet access, just got it back!

[Tables]

He hadn't logged in since the 12th. I know. I was watching his profile as it was his turn in TtAII.

Basically I've already been winvoted because I apparently sound very townish this game (no joke). I think the actual hammering my winvote was a mistake, but it's happened and locked so meh.

We think Jorbles has a post restriction, he's communicating with chicken code.

I still don't have any scumreads, and have decided I'm going to take proper notes this game. Eventually.

[cayvie]

man, eevee, zingin me all over the place this game

loser-vote YOU

[Eevee]

Posting just to say 'what' when nothing confusing has happened is just.. untownlike?

[cayvie]

Posting just to say 'what' when nothing confusing has happened is just.. untownlike?

yeah, you're full of it.

losevote: eevee

[Eevee]

Posting just to say 'what' when nothing confusing has happened is just.. untownlike?

yeah, you're full of it.

losevote: eevee

i'm not saying "IVE FOUND MAFIA!!", i'm saying i want to have my vote somewhere and this was something that stood out to me. also goes nicely with my winvote rewarding tables's good day 1 game..

Omgus is generally a towntell tho I think, so little town cred for you from that!

[Tables]

Hmm... in my experience, it can swing either way. At this point it's hard to say, but later on, it can definitely be a big scumtell.

[cayvie]

Hmm... in my experience, it can swing either way. At this point it's hard to say, but later on, it can definitely be a big scumtell.

how do you feel about manufacturing cases day 1, and then backing off like "ha ha jk" under pressure?

[Jorbles]

Zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz

zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

[Losevote: Eevee]
Unlosevote

[Tables]

Okay guys lets get some activity in here. I've been saying I will and I'm actually going to do it now, make notes, ask questions, etc.

But for now, let's start talking some more.

[Eevee]

Back home! I think everyone should just throw down a loservote and an explanation for it. Should get the discussion going.

Seems I totally missed this post, good thing I skimmed back:

Hmm... in my experience, it can swing either way. At this point it's hard to say, but later on, it can definitely be a big scumtell.

how do you feel about manufacturing cases day 1, and then backing off like "ha ha jk" under pressure?

I think "manufacturing cases" is very incorrect, as is "backing off like haha jk". I never meant it to be a pick case against you, I just pointed out something you did that didn't make much sense to me. I didn't say "yes this is bulletproof!", just that I think it's pretty questionable. I also never backed down, I still think that's the case. Your reaction to it is strange, getting quite worked up about me thinking something you did is a bit scummy and worth throwing down FIRST vote on you?

[Tables]

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

Maybe this will fly over your heads, but this is bugging me.

(inb4tablesiswastingtime)

So reading through here and I just noticed this post. Losevote everyone for not getting the pun (hint: Dsell/Scyther was talking about Deino's type. what type is Scyther?)

Anyway actual content to come soon. There's only 7 pages so eh.

[Archetype]

You're also dark type. Explain yourself.

Maybe this will fly over your heads, but this is bugging me.

(inb4tablesiswastingtime)

So reading through here and I just noticed this post. Losevote everyone for not getting the pun (hint: Dsell/Scyther was talking about Deino's type. what type is Scyther?)

Anyway actual content to come soon. There's only 7 pages so eh.

Oh, wow. I just got it.

[cayvie]

Back home! I think everyone should just throw down a loservote and an explanation for it. Should get the discussion going.

Seems I totally missed this post, good thing I skimmed back:

Hmm... in my experience, it can swing either way. At this point it's hard to say, but later on, it can definitely be a big scumtell.

how do you feel about manufacturing cases day 1, and then backing off like "ha ha jk" under pressure?

I think "manufacturing cases" is very incorrect, as is "backing off like haha jk". I never meant it to be a pick case against you, I just pointed out something you did that didn't make much sense to me. I didn't say "yes this is bulletproof!", just that I think it's pretty questionable. I also never backed down, I still think that's the case. Your reaction to it is strange, getting quite worked up about me thinking something you did is a bit scummy and worth throwing down FIRST vote on you?

it doesn't matter which number vote it is on me if it's for bs reasons.

[Eevee]

Back home! I think everyone should just throw down a loservote and an explanation for it. Should get the discussion going.

Seems I totally missed this post, good thing I skimmed back:

Hmm... in my experience, it can swing either way. At this point it's hard to say, but later on, it can definitely be a big scumtell.

how do you feel about manufacturing cases day 1, and then backing off like "ha ha jk" under pressure?

I think "manufacturing cases" is very incorrect, as is "backing off like haha jk". I never meant it to be a pick case against you, I just pointed out something you did that didn't make much sense to me. I didn't say "yes this is bulletproof!", just that I think it's pretty questionable. I also never backed down, I still think that's the case. Your reaction to it is strange, getting quite worked up about me thinking something you did is a bit scummy and worth throwing down FIRST vote on you?

it doesn't matter which number vote it is on me if it's for bs reasons.

So you'd prefer people not trying to pick on the tinier things they notice so this game or any game never gets off ground? Surely you realize I don't myself consider it a case worth lynching over, just trying to start somewhere and see where it takes us?

[cayvie]

So you'd prefer people not trying to pick on the tinier things they notice so this game or any game never gets off ground?

Hmm. Nope. I just think there's a difference between noticing things and making things up, and I suspect you're doing the latter.

Surely you realize I don't myself consider it a case worth lynching over, just trying to start somewhere and see where it takes us?

no, how would i realize that?

so where is it taking you/us?

[Tables]

Onto page 6 now, yay, discussion! I'll be joining soon and have extra comments to add, oh ho ho. But for now, I have to admit, writing "WINHAMMER Tables" in my notes was extremely satisfying. It's just... Winhammer, that sounds awesome.

[Voltgloss]

[Eevee]

So you'd prefer people not trying to pick on the tinier things they notice so this game or any game never gets off ground?

Hmm. Nope. I just think there's a difference between noticing things and making things up, and I suspect you're doing the latter.

Surely you realize I don't myself consider it a case worth lynching over, just trying to start somewhere and see where it takes us?

no, how would i realize that?

so where is it taking you/us?

I'm getting a reaction from you / there is discussion for you, me and other folks to analyze?

you should realize it because obviously what i picked on was something very minor. your reaction to the suspicions is for example a much better indicator of your alignment. i think you overreacted, but i dont know what it would mean in your case (generally i think it's a slight scum tell, but i think this might be something others judge better than i do).

basically, you should realize that townies have to grasp on straws early in the game or nothing will ever happen. i feel fine being suspected early, the ensuing conversation is a great way to take reads of your accusator. i dont think you should be so outraged of being (possibly) wrongly accused or scared of being lynched.

[Tables]

Volt go post two posts somewhere with karma so I can upvote them both.

Anyway rereading is done, yay!

So firstly, a few big points. As I read the thread, I'm getting more and more paranoid. I shouldn't have been winvoted so quickly, or so comfortably. I'm just baffled by it. I had my good idea, yes, and made some good early posts, but beyond about page 2, I didn't contribute anything useful pretty much, at all. I didn't winvote someone else, just kept it on myself, and won as a result. Most of what I said was about 30 posts behind what was going on. How did that look so town to so many? But here's the issue: The usual answer to 'why is this strange thing happening' in a mafia game is 'scum are involved'. So why did scum want me to be evolved? That's making me worried. Hopefully I'm wrong, and hopefully, a large number of townies were genuinely happy with me, but well, the speed of the lock in was far faster than I expected.

Regarding activity, there are four people I want to highlight. In order of my spreadsheet (which is alphabetical):

Captain Frisk: His main contribution so far was cracking Jorbles chicken code. But... that's basically all I've recorded him as having said. This doesn't mean he hasn't said anything else, but there was nothing else I thought was overly noteworthy. Not too concerned about this, as we're still in early days.

DSell: So far the only thing I have on DSell is his winvote of Eevee. I know he did some talking about the chicken code, but again, that's really about all I have on him. Not so concerned because IIRC he mentioned he was running another game, so, time.

Jimm...m: He's just announced V/LA, but I think that was his first post. There's no point pressuring him until he's back, but I would like to hear from him when that is.

Robz: Where are you Robz!? Requesting a mod poke (if we're allowed to do that)

Right, now then onto various issues and things.

There's the Cayvie/Eevee debate currently going on... I must admit, I had a stronger townread on Eevee until that started. I agree with Cayvie, I feel Eevee is trying to make an issue out of nothing, but at the same time, I can see the direction Eevee is coming from. I'm not really that suspicious of either of you (slightly of Eevee at this point)

I have a slight townread on Galz, but at this point there's two interesting things. One of them I'm going to keep back, because at this point it's not a tell in any way but COULD be (either town or scum), and I don't want to give away what would have to happen for me to read it that way. The other thing is, Galz winhammered. I don't know if he realised, but/because there was no discussion about doing it. I'm not really too fussed at this point, but it might be something to be aware of later.

This is my notes of everything that I think Jorbles has said that was worth recording.
64: Re-53 - no. Winvote flick between me and himself.
100: Re-79, yes to winvoting others
*100: Winvote Tables
103: Re-92 - bold yes (counts as 1 stage pokemon)
109: (Re-107) - claims Post Restriction
119: Re-117, 'maybe' to a balance of his role power.
123: Re-120, it is chicken code. Re-121, no
157: Re-142 confirming chicken code. Re-60 unlosevote Eevee

Jorbles, the no in your post 123 (re-121) is slightly confusing... I'm not sure what it's referring to exactly.

Unfortunately after all this, I don't have any good scum reads. I only have slight suspicions of a few people. For now though, I'm going to throw out a LoseVote: Eevee because, I'm still not entirely comfortable that your argument against Cayvie is/was legitimate.

[Eevee]

I'm fine with people not agreeing with my argument, it was self-admittedly a minor thing. What I don't understand is how you can think I shouldn't even have made it. :/ Did I word it poorly or something? Should I self-filter more, only say things that I'm more confident about? (Using theorel's scumscore method, "only report things I think raise/lower X's scumscore by more than 3"?)

[Eevee]

I think this is just the kind of townie-mistake (although I dont even think it was a mistake) I used to get suspected a ton over earlier.

[Tables]

I'm not saying I don't think you should have made the argument. I'm saying it doesn't seem sincere, considering that a) Me being winvoted so quickly would probably be quite unexpected to someone who hadn't been in the thread up to them and b) he hadn't been in the thread up to then because of connectivity.

As I said though, I can see where the argument came from, and if you missed the detail of b, it really begins to make sense. But right now, man, I haven't seen anything else in 7 pages that I really found suspicious.

[Eevee]

Basically I thought "oh, cayvie is confused about something, lets explain it to her!", skimmed back to see what she could be confused about and just saw nothing confusing in there. But now that I type this out loud, seems like a pretty dumb lie for scum to make so.. uhm. Maybe it was me who was confused then.

[Tables]

UnLosevote: Eevee. I think I'm satisfied with this.

[Robz888]

Oh jeez I had no idea this game was even running now. STOP STARTING GAMES IN A DIFFERENT THREAD FROM THE SIGNUPS.

I like just did the quickest skim of this, I'm only like 80% on the rules and 50% on who's even playing.

I don't understand what gave Table lightning-fast Innocent Child status, but as I said I didn't read super carefully. Can someone catch me up? I would appreciate it.

[Galzria]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

[Galzria]

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players.  The action of these pokemon dying will distribute its experience to random other players, causing them to evolve.  The number of evolutions that will occur will be equal to the deceased pokemons current stage (eg if squirtle were to be night killed, another random pokemon would be evolved 1 stage.  If Blastoise were to be night killed, three random pokemon would be evolved one stage.  These three pokemon are chosen randomly and could potentially be the same pokemon, all unique, or some combination thereof).

[Tables]

Oh jeez I had no idea this game was even running now. STOP STARTING GAMES IN A DIFFERENT THREAD FROM THE SIGNUPS.

I like just did the quickest skim of this, I'm only like 80% on the rules and 50% on who's even playing.

I don't understand what gave Table lightning-fast Innocent Child status, but as I said I didn't read super carefully. Can someone catch me up? I would appreciate it.

Basically what Galz just quoted, then apparently I was extremely town afterwards. Personally I'm very paranoid of it all (check my post 168) but whatever. I don't this I've quite got Innocent Child status, rather, I feel people's early town read accidentally lead to the hammer super fast.

What's happened so far is, I've been winvoted, Jorbles has (or pretends to have) a debilitating post restriction, he's using chicken code to communicate. There's been some discussion about it. There's been a few scuffles, and otherwise not really much.

[Robz888]

Okay. Well, okay.

[Eevee]

Robz, I don't think anyone considers Tables an IC. I think he was the top town read for a bunch of people + folks also wanted to reward his solid day 1 game, and then it accidentally turned it to a locked winvote on him. Which is fine though, I was part of that wagon and his play still feels towny to me so no regrets there.

[Dsell]

Hello all, I'm here and will catch up on this game either now or later tonight. Promise I'm not ignoring you all, I just have to get back into the swing of being in mafia games!

[Robz888]

Hello all, I'm here and will catch up on this game either now or later tonight. Promise I'm not ignoring you all, I just have to get back into the swing of being in mafia games!

I definitely switched these two words in my mind, you obvscum.

[Dsell]

I totally lied about catching up yesterday. But I am catching up now. It shouldn't take long.

[Dsell]

Losevote: Axxle

No content! I guess several people (myself included) are guilty of being slightly lurky, but I don't remember much of anything of content from him. He was on the Tables winvote wagon, which Tables himself apparently finds scummy.

I feel very confident in the towniness of Tables right now, and pretty neutral-to-town on most others who are participating.

[Axxle]

@mod: Request prod for Axxle.

...

[Eevee]

Is the tables wagon scummy for buddying reasons then, or what? I just see a bunch of overexcited people voting for their top town read . I actually think being part of the wagon is a slight town tell if tables is town.

[Dsell]

Well, I can't say I find the winvote wagon scummy myself, I'm just sheeping Tables on that front. That's far from the scummiest thing he's done, it's merely a point of interest. I think his lurking is way scummier.

[jotheonah]

I think it's worth exploring the implications if Tables IS scum, although I'm inclined to think him town.

Remember the scum had a pretty long time to talk in their QT. So it's possible they said "maybe if we all work together and get upfront about it fast, we can evolve one of our own before anyone develops strong enough reads to know better." That would sort of explain the speed of the winwagon. It would be pretty gutsy, though.

I'm sorry I've been lurky here (by my standards). Another game has been drawing most of my attention, and the last week of work before the holidays.

[Dsell]

I think it's definitely worth exploring the implications of Tables being scum, but I don't think that's worth doing today because 1) I trust him and 2) He can't lose today anyway and 3) if there IS a cop and they do investigate him (as per his plan) then we can trust him all the more.

[cayvie]

I think it's definitely worth exploring the implications of Tables being scum, but I don't think that's worth doing today because 1) I trust him and 2) He can't lose today anyway and 3) if there IS a cop and they do investigate him (as per his plan) then we can trust him all the more.

a couple times now, my thoughts have circled around to "but this whole plan falls apart if tables is the cop!"

then i remember why that's not a problem

[Tables]

There's something I'm afraid of regarding this wagon, but I can't give away what it is, basically.

I'm still disliking the amount of activity here, and I really don't have any good scumread, which is annoying me. For now I think my best read is Frisk, mainly because I don't feel he's contributed much scumhunting wise, and even that's basically a neutral read, I can't point at any post and go 'this feels scummy'.

[Captain_Frisk]

FYI I have requested place out... I just don't care about Pokemon it turns out

[Insomniac]

FYI I have requested place out... I just don't care about Pokemon it turns out

Once blitz is over you will.

[Eevee]

It's really hard to care about ANY other games when blitzes are running. I salute Insomniac for making them happen for us, and ashersky for finding the beautiful setup we've been using for them.
..as far as this game goes, I think Frisk wanting out is a town tell. Although in his case a smaller one than it would be for a random, because at one point Frisk was drawing scum left and right and iirc started getting quite frustrated about it.

[Dsell]

FYI I have requested place out... I just don't care about Pokemon it turns out

Boo. It's not like you can't handle this game. We'll get through the day 1 doldrums...just like every other (non-blitz) game.

[Eevee]

How DO the blitzes get off ground so fast always?

[Eevee]

How could we get that effect in a normal game?

[Dsell]

..as far as this game goes, I think Frisk wanting out is a town tell.

Disagree with this, because there have been enough cases where someone has requested out and gotten town cred for it. ScumFrisk would know this and very well might try it out, even if he doesn't actually intend to replace out.

Whether he's scum or town, Frisk has said that he makes mental notes of what gets people towncred and stores that info away for when he needs town cred as scum.

Of course, he might legitimately be town. But it takes more than a gimmick like this for me to get a town read on Frisk anymore.

[Captain_Frisk]

FYI I have requested place out... I just don't care about Pokemon it turns out

Once blitz is over you will.

There's XVI and XVII, and cayvie is bound to start soon.  This thing is just too weird for my tastes.  I requested out 2 days ago, so I'm guessing that either the munch isn't looking very hard, or nobody is around.

[Archetype]

I actually really like the mechanics in the game, but it's a shame that this hasn't ramped up as much conversation as some of the other games have.

[TheMunch]

Mod request: Finding replacements is not a skill I have or really know how to accomplish.  For those following and reading this thread, we are looking for a replacement for CF.  I would also appreciate for suggestions, either from past/current mods, as to how to actually get replacements for a game.  Carry on.

[Archetype]

Mod request: Finding replacements is not a skill I have or really know how to accomplish.  For those following and reading this thread, we are looking for a replacement for CF.  I would also appreciate for suggestions, either from past/current mods, as to how to actually get replacements for a game.  Carry on.

Just post that you're requesting a replacement in some off-game thread like Mafia Index. Just tell the person that wants to replace to PM you. Send them CF's PM, announce that 'X has replaced Captain_Frisk' and you're good to go.

[cayvie]

why don't we just losevote: captain_frisk? he wants out, and it's not like i have a better read on anyone else.

[Eevee]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

[cayvie]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

then bring it, eevee! bring the case; i just want things to happen

i also don't understand why you think the wagon would be any less informational than a normal day 1 wagon

[Eevee]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

then bring it, eevee! bring the case; i just want things to happen

i also don't understand why you think the wagon would be any less informational than a normal day 1 wagon

because lynching someone because they want to replace out while saying you dont really think they are scummy is like the dream excuse for mafia?

[Eevee]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

then bring it, eevee! bring the case; i just want things to happen

i also don't understand why you think the wagon would be any less informational than a normal day 1 wagon

because lynching someone because they want to replace out while saying you dont really think they are scummy is like the dream excuse for mafia?

.. go kill a townie. which i still think even frisk replacing out is more likely to be.

[Tables]

losevote: Cayvie for trying to waste the day's vote. I do not thing wanting out is any kind of tell at all. If anything slightly mafia.

[jotheonah]

Eevee is making some sense here. OTOH, boredom is a towntell. scum is patienter. So I can't decide.

[Eevee]

Joth, boredom is a towntell -> frisk more likely to be town -> what's the other hand?

[jotheonah]

cayvie is also clearly bored. or else just oportunistic scum. hmmm

[cayvie]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

then bring it, eevee! bring the case; i just want things to happen

i also don't understand why you think the wagon would be any less informational than a normal day 1 wagon

because lynching someone because they want to replace out while saying you dont really think they are scummy is like the dream excuse for mafia?

wouldn't that make the wagon more informational, not less?

[cayvie]

losevote: Cayvie for trying to waste the day's vote. I do not thing wanting out is any kind of tell at all. If anything slightly mafia.

how is lynching frisk wasting the day's vote? especially if you think wanting to replace out is a slight scumtell?

[Eevee]

everything cayvie does just makes me want to vote for her. :/

i mean that'd be a sweet idea if wanting to replace out wasnt a towntell to me or if getting information from the wagon didnt matter

then bring it, eevee! bring the case; i just want things to happen

i also don't understand why you think the wagon would be any less informational than a normal day 1 wagon

because lynching someone because they want to replace out while saying you dont really think they are scummy is like the dream excuse for mafia?

wouldn't that make the wagon more informational, not less?

Well, it's like a random lynch people can decide whether they agree on or not, isnt it?

[Tables]

Sorry, probably shouldn't be playing mafia at 3:30am (but at least you can't lynch me today for saying stupid things). I think it's a very slight scumtell from personal experience. More to the point, at the time you voted, people were saying it was a possible towntell, and then you jump straight in and vote. It being a slight tell to me is actually basically irrelevant to my reason for suspecting you.

[jotheonah]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

[Tables]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

The fun thing is after playing mafia, I intend to go play Age of Empires on my DS before going to bed. Because strategy games while tired, what could possibly go wrong?

[Eevee]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

The fun thing is after playing mafia, I intend to go play Age of Empires on my DS before going to bed. Because strategy games while tired, what could possibly go wrong?

not that much really. i can think of far worse things.

[Eevee]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

The fun thing is after playing mafia, I intend to go play Age of Empires on my DS before going to bed. Because strategy games while tired, what could possibly go wrong?

not that much really. i can think of far worse things.

to do while tired.

[Archetype]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

The fun thing is after playing mafia, I intend to go play Age of Empires on my DS before going to bed. Because strategy games while tired, what could possibly go wrong?

That game is the best.

I definitally think cayvie comes off scummy here. I don't think C_F's switching out is a scum or town tell, but it certainly doesn't warrant a vote.

[Tables]

ah-ha! up-to-late Tables is making good sense to slightly-drunk joth, but I think perhaps it best all around if I reserve voting for tomorrow. FoS:L: cayvie!

The fun thing is after playing mafia, I intend to go play Age of Empires on my DS before going to bed. Because strategy games while tired, what could possibly go wrong?

That game is the best.

I definitally think cayvie comes off scummy here. I don't think C_F's switching out is a scum or town tell, but it certainly doesn't warrant a vote.

It's a terrible, terrible game, but playing it is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I want to hear what (if anything) Cayvie says here.

[cayvie]

what, about age of empires?

i never really got into it.

i don't see why wanting to replace out doesn't warrant a vote; it's about equal to lurking in my book, which gets day 1 votes all the time.

[cayvie]

(hey, look, multiple people talking!)

[jotheonah]

Wanting to replace but not actually doing it raises my heckles, but then I was wrong about that tell fairly recently, and here Frisk seems sincere. I think we should look elsewhere.

BUT the Tables thing that seemed legit was that, regardless of Frisk's alignment, cayvie seems awfully overeager to get a lynch going. And that's the thing that's jumping out at me.

[jotheonah]

I guess, not exactly regardless, since it doesn't make sense as a thing if they're both scum.

[cayvie]

I guess, not exactly regardless, since it doesn't make sense as a thing if they're both scum.

haha it's a truly epic bus

my scumbuddy wants to replace out? SCREW THAT NOISE

[cayvie]

Wanting to replace but not actually doing it raises my heckles, but then I was wrong about that tell fairly recently, and here Frisk seems sincere. I think we should look elsewhere.

BUT the Tables thing that seemed legit was that, regardless of Frisk's alignment, cayvie seems awfully overeager to get a lynch going. And that's the thing that's jumping out at me.

i'm eager to get this game going.

[jotheonah]

I'm eager to gt some sleep going. see y'all tomorrow.

[Tables]

Cayvie what I wanted you to answer was, why do you think it's good to lynch Frisk if he's getting subbed out, and people were suggesting that was a towntell?

[cayvie]

Cayvie what I wanted you to answer was, why do you think it's good to lynch Frisk if he's getting subbed out, and people were suggesting that was a towntell?

i don't agree that it's a towntell? i think it's a null tell at best. like lurking.

[Eevee]

its so different from lurking.

[Dsell]

I don't know about ordinarily, but I don't think it's a towntell from Frisk.

[cayvie]

its so different from lurking.

and yet tell-wise, i think it's very similar!

[Eevee]

its so different from lurking.

and yet tell-wise, i think it's very similar!

medium scum <-> medium town for me!

[TheMunch]

Ashersky has replaced Captain Frisk.  GAME ON

[cayvie]

unlosevote don't want Ashersky to think i'm scummy!

[ashersky]

I was going to losevote: cayvie with my first post, but she went an unvoted.

I've been skimming along, but not really paying attention to this game.  All that matters currently is who we want to Losevote, correct?  And Losevote = Lynch, basically?

Who should I keep an eye on during my re-read?

[cayvie]

I was going to losevote: cayvie with my first post, but she went an unvoted.

I've been skimming along, but not really paying attention to this game.  All that matters currently is who we want to Losevote, correct?  And Losevote = Lynch, basically?

Who should I keep an eye on during my re-read?

hahaha what? me unlosevoting you actually made you decide not to vote for me?

[ashersky]

I was going to losevote: cayvie with my first post, but she went an unvoted.

I've been skimming along, but not really paying attention to this game.  All that matters currently is who we want to Losevote, correct?  And Losevote = Lynch, basically?

Who should I keep an eye on during my re-read?

hahaha what? me unlosevoting you actually made you decide not to vote for me?

Umm...Losevote: Cayvie?  Is that better?

[cayvie]

hahahahahaha sure

finish your reread

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.4
LoseVote
Axxle (2): Jorbles, Dsell
Eevee (1): Jimmmmm
Jorbles (1): Axxle
cayvie (3): Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Tables
jotheonah (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1): Insomniac

Not voting (3): Archetype, cayvie, Robz888

WinVote--LOCKED
{Winner} Tables (7): Tables, Eevee, Axxle, Insomniac, Jorbles, Archetype, Galzria
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Captain_Frisk (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1): Dsell
Insomniac (1): jotheonah

Not voting (2): cayvie, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

[ashersky]

Alright, so that was fast.

1) Can I choose a different pokemon, or am I stuck with Mew?
2) Do I need the signature thingy?

So, tough to get reads on a such a short D1, but here are my take aways.

1) I don't know pokemon very well past the first ten or so episodes of the cartoon, plus the Mew movie.
2) I think that this game plays more like an RMM game, and that nights will be more important than usual.
3) I think there is scum on the Tables winwagon.

Losevote: Noone -- Is this the equivalent of a nolynch vote?  I'm voting for no loser.  I think nolynch in this set-up is our best bet.  Night actions for all, more PRs than usual, etc.  I'm seeing it more like DoMafia.

That said, my choice for a lynch, if needed, would be Jimmmmm.  After him, Axxle, Archetype, or Galzria, in that order.

[ashersky]

Reasoning:  Jimmmmm -- LaLL, really.  I mean, come on.  Posted nothing.  Plus, I've watched him play a lot of games.

Axxle and Archetype:  Acti-lurkers.  (Jorbles gets a pass due to V/LA; otherwise, I'd be very suspicious there, and will watch him D2)

Galzria:  Lurkish when compared to normal Galz, especially considering his vocality early in the day.

[Jimmmmm]

Reasoning:  Jimmmmm -- LaLL, really.  I mean, come on.  Posted nothing.  Plus, I've watched him play a lot of games.

Yeah that's a fair call. Playing scum in Blitz VII was taking up all of my Mafia capacity. I'll try to catch up when I can.

[Robz888]

Loservote: Jimm

[Eevee]

Should we talk about Robz? Literally forgot he was playing...

[Galzria]

Should we talk about Robz? Literally forgot he was playing...

I could support this. It's funny that he comes in with a lose vote on Jimmmmm, with no explanation given. It's further amusing because if I were to hazard a guess, it would be over the LALL Ashersky mentioned (that Jimmmmm at least acknowledged) would be appropriate. And while I don't disagree with Ashersky, I think an equally fair take away from the LALL rule would be: losevote: Robz.

This is me, LALL voting Robz888.

[jotheonah]

Alright, so that was fast.

1) Can I choose a different pokemon, or am I stuck with Mew?
2) Do I need the signature thingy?

So, tough to get reads on a such a short D1, but here are my take aways.

1) I don't know pokemon very well past the first ten or so episodes of the cartoon, plus the Mew movie.
2) I think that this game plays more like an RMM game, and that nights will be more important than usual.
3) I think there is scum on the Tables winwagon.

Losevote: Noone -- Is this the equivalent of a nolynch vote?  I'm voting for no loser.  I think nolynch in this set-up is our best bet.  Night actions for all, more PRs than usual, etc.  I'm seeing it more like DoMafia.

That said, my choice for a lynch, if needed, would be Jimmmmm.  After him, Axxle, Archetype, or Galzria, in that order.

Munch, is this an option? Flavorwise, there is a battle between Tables and whoever loses. It seems weird to me that battle could have a winner and no loser.

[Insomniac]

I'm not sure how to get this game going :S

[shraeye]

Alright, so that was fast.

1) Can I choose a different pokemon, or am I stuck with Mew?
2) Do I need the signature thingy?

So, tough to get reads on a such a short D1, but here are my take aways.

1) I don't know pokemon very well past the first ten or so episodes of the cartoon, plus the Mew movie.
2) I think that this game plays more like an RMM game, and that nights will be more important than usual.
3) I think there is scum on the Tables winwagon.

Losevote: Noone -- Is this the equivalent of a nolynch vote?  I'm voting for no loser.  I think nolynch in this set-up is our best bet.  Night actions for all, more PRs than usual, etc.  I'm seeing it more like DoMafia.

That said, my choice for a lynch, if needed, would be Jimmmmm.  After him, Axxle, Archetype, or Galzria, in that order.

Munch, is this an option? Flavorwise, there is a battle between Tables and whoever loses. It seems weird to me that battle could have a winner and no loser.

4a.  Each vote count will be separately locked the moment it reaches majority.  After one of the vote counts has been locked, discussion will continue prior to deadline until the other vote count has been resolved (eg if a winner is chosen, discussion will continue until a loser is chosen; no votes could be changed regarding the winner).  If deadline is reached and only one votecount has reached majority, the other votecount will be decided by whichever player is leading at the time of the deadline.  If neither votecount has reached majority, the game will go to night with no fight.  If there is a tie at deadline, thread will be locked and a hidden democracy will take place to determine the outcome (each player will pm the name of which of the tied candidates they would like to resolve; majority rules).

The only way to have no fight is to lock neither the winner nor the loser.  Once a lock happens, a fight will occur using plurality voting rules.

[Dsell]

I'm not sure how to get this game going :S

A D1 wagon on LurkerRobz!

Losevote: Robz

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah Losevote: Robz for that quick, scummy vote on me.

[jotheonah]

how close are we to deadline?

[Galzria]

Near as I can tell, he has 3 votes, with 7 to lynch.

[Galzria]

how close are we to deadline?

And I COMPLETELY didn't actually read your question before answering. Wow. Fail.

[Galzria]

Thursday, December 27th.

[Eevee]

Robz, whats up with no posting and then just voting for jimm for no explanation?

[jotheonah]

Yeah, that's really the lurker calling the lurker lurk.

But I no longer believe in voting Robz day 1. It always turns into a big thing.

[Galzria]

Yeah, that's really the lurker calling the lurker lurk.

But I no longer believe in voting Robz day 1. It always turns into a big thing.

I treat him as equally as I do everybody else. He's got just as much chance at being scum. I don't go out of my way to wagon him, but when he does something worth voting for, I'm not going to say "Nah, it's just Robz, he gets a free pass".

[Axxle]

has anyone analyzed the tables wagon yet? seemed way too quick a hammer.

[jotheonah]

It's not so much that we mislynch Robz a lot. That would be one thing. It's that we end up spending a lot of time on Robz wagons that don't end up going through.

If he keeps being lurktastic, I might break my rule, though.

PPE: @Axxle - Go for it, man.

[Dsell]

has anyone analyzed the tables wagon yet? seemed way too quick a hammer.

He has analyzed his own wagon. Also, you were on it!

Why are you sooo scummy??

[Tables]

has anyone analyzed the tables wagon yet? seemed way too quick a hammer.

I think people have looked, and what I think the general idea was is, if I'm town, it's not worth considering, if I'm scum, then definitely look at it on a later day. Right now I'm persoanlly really confused by it, but don't really know what I can make of it. I mean, would scum quickhammer a townie into a win? I can see possible reasons, but they're quite farfetch'd.

This Robz wagon is interesting. Jim's sudden vote in there is also interesting. I'm not going to wait, but I want Robz to say a little more.

[Dsell]

farfetch'd.

he. hehehehe.

[Tables]

It's the little things that count .

[Robz888]

Yeah... I'm lurking. The fact that it was like 7 pages in before I even knew it was going on has really sapped me caring here, which I know isn't fair to the rest of you, so I'm sorry. Jimm has been lurking and I wanted to see what would happen if I voted for him. What happened was he OMGUSed me, which is I think surprising, because Jimm is pretty levelheaded as Town.

[Eevee]

Why should we lynch Jimmm for his lynching rather than you for your lurking?

[Robz888]

Why should we lynch Jimmm for his lynching rather than you for your lurking?

Because I'm town.. but realistically I can't give you a good reason at this point. I promise to stop lurking now, but as I always tell people, if you've already been called out for lurking, it's too late to change your ways. So, yuck.

[Tables]

Yeah... I'm lurking. The fact that it was like 7 pages in before I even knew it was going on has really sapped me caring here, which I know isn't fair to the rest of you, so I'm sorry. Jimm has been lurking and I wanted to see what would happen if I voted for him. What happened was he OMGUSed me, which is I think surprising, because Jimm is pretty levelheaded as Town.

This isn't what OMGUS means. OMGUS is when someone votes you because you vote them. He voted you because your vote makes no sense considering you were lurking, and he'd V/LA'd. His vote makes sense, yours... didn't, and well you wanted to know what would happen?

[Robz888]

Here's a possibly original thought... you would winvote your scumpartners, right? So isn't Tables like automatically more likely to be scum? Not that we can do anything about it.

[Robz888]

Yeah... I'm lurking. The fact that it was like 7 pages in before I even knew it was going on has really sapped me caring here, which I know isn't fair to the rest of you, so I'm sorry. Jimm has been lurking and I wanted to see what would happen if I voted for him. What happened was he OMGUSed me, which is I think surprising, because Jimm is pretty levelheaded as Town.

This isn't what OMGUS means. OMGUS is when someone votes you because you vote them. He voted you because your vote makes no sense considering you were lurking, and he'd V/LA'd. His vote makes sense, yours... didn't, and well you wanted to know what would happen?

He wasn't VLA. He was involved in other mafia games; so was I.

[Eevee]

Hmm, that actually reminds me of town-robz we so often mislynch day 1 (although I usually oppose it). First he ,akes some controversial move / a mistake (in this case lurking, it has been saying "we should kill a newbie" earlier for example), then defends himself like that but is already in the hole and can't dig himself out, gets lynched.

I don't think he is the best lynch for today if he starts contributing more like he promised.

[Robz888]

Hmm, that actually reminds me of town-robz we so often mislynch day 1 (although I usually oppose it). First he ,akes some controversial move / a mistake (in this case lurking, it has been saying "we should kill a newbie" earlier for example), then defends himself like that but is already in the hole and can't dig himself out, gets lynched.

I don't think he is the best lynch for today if he starts contributing more like he promised.

That's very sweet of you!

[Eevee]

Hmm, that actually reminds me of town-robz we so often mislynch day 1 (although I usually oppose it). First he ,akes some controversial move / a mistake (in this case lurking, it has been saying "we should kill a newbie" earlier for example), then defends himself like that but is already in the hole and can't dig himself out, gets lynched.

I don't think he is the best lynch for today if he starts contributing more like he promised.

That's very sweet of you!

No problem, buddy!

[cayvie]

get a QT, you two

[Robz888]

What do you guys think of this:

Here's a possibly original thought... you would winvote your scumpartners, right? So isn't Tables like automatically more likely to be scum? Not that we can do anything about it.

[cayvie]

woof

i don't know, robz. i think, on average, the winvote champeen is probably more likely to be scum.

[Galzria]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

[ashersky]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

Assumes we have a cop...

I do think scum would winvote their partners.

Since nolynch is not an option, is there a consensus?

[Galzria]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

Assumes we have a cop...

I do think scum would winvote their partners.

Since nolynch is not an option, is there a consensus?

That's hardly am unreasonable assumption, and scum would be idiots to bet against it D1.

[Eevee]

Wait, wouldn't scum be super unwilling to vote their partner for the win if that means said partner will get copped? Am I missing somethng?

[Galzria]

Wait, wouldn't scum be super unwilling to vote their partner for the win if that means said partner will get copped? Am I missing somethng?

Unless they knew one of two things to be true:

A) There is no cop
- This was Ashersky's point, but I think it bears no weight, because there is no way they could unequivocally know this to be the case, and assuming it to be true would be terrible given how reasonable it is to expect there might be a cop in a role-madness game.

B) They know their player is investigation immune
- This is possible, and in fact the first person to point out the systems failings in regards to this is Tables himself. Now, it IS a concern, BUT if it's true then scum member ! Tables put into place a system that is largely beneficial to the town, just to but himself a clean investigation. AND, given that anybody who comes out is treated as "townie", it's not unreasonable to think they should have a target on their back for future nights. So expecting scum!Tables to run clean to the end of the game without "getting killed" would be a poor strategy indeed.

So in all, it's highly unlikely that "scum would rush to get their man winvoted".

[ashersky]

Wait, wouldn't scum be super unwilling to vote their partner for the win if that means said partner will get copped? Am I missing somethng?

Unless they knew one of two things to be true:

A) There is no cop
- This was Ashersky's point, but I think it bears no weight, because there is no way they could unequivocally know this to be the case, and assuming it to be true would be terrible given how reasonable it is to expect there might be a cop in a role-madness game.

B) They know their player is investigation immune
- This is possible, and in fact the first person to point out the systems failings in regards to this is Tables himself. Now, it IS a concern, BUT if it's true then scum member ! Tables put into place a system that is largely beneficial to the town, just to but himself a clean investigation. AND, given that anybody who comes out is treated as "townie", it's not unreasonable to think they should have a target on their back for future nights. So expecting scum!Tables to run clean to the end of the game without "getting killed" would be a poor strategy indeed.

So in all, it's highly unlikely that "scum would rush to get their man winvoted".

The cop in this situation would know if the plan would actually work, right?  Or if the RMMMMMMMMMMness of the set-up puts a kink in the plan.

[Galzria]

Wait, wouldn't scum be super unwilling to vote their partner for the win if that means said partner will get copped? Am I missing somethng?

Unless they knew one of two things to be true:

A) There is no cop
- This was Ashersky's point, but I think it bears no weight, because there is no way they could unequivocally know this to be the case, and assuming it to be true would be terrible given how reasonable it is to expect there might be a cop in a role-madness game.

B) They know their player is investigation immune
- This is possible, and in fact the first person to point out the systems failings in regards to this is Tables himself. Now, it IS a concern, BUT if it's true then scum member ! Tables put into place a system that is largely beneficial to the town, just to but himself a clean investigation. AND, given that anybody who comes out is treated as "townie", it's not unreasonable to think they should have a target on their back for future nights. So expecting scum!Tables to run clean to the end of the game without "getting killed" would be a poor strategy indeed.

So in all, it's highly unlikely that "scum would rush to get their man winvoted".

The cop in this situation would know if the plan would actually work, right?  Or if the RMMMMMMMMMMness of the set-up puts a kink in the plan.

Huh? What, do you expect Cop to come out and say "I support this because I can do the Copping?"

The fact is that in a Role Madness game, ours not at all unreasonable to expect there to be an investigative player of some sort, and for scum to back on there NOT being one D1 while seeing up this system that's going to clear them all would be terrible scum play.

Now, you can argue that they want the cop gone, so decided to sacrifice their weakest role in exchange for outing the Cop, but until that happens, I think it's a pretty unreliable theory.

[Archetype]

Man, I keep forgetting about this game.

I guess the player that gets win voted is more likely to be scum. Their partners could just bus them, but I think that could be the case in later days. I don't think Tables would recommend the winvote investigation plan as scum.

There is the possibility of their being no cop. But I think there would be at least 1 alignment investigation power. Maybe not at this stage, but at a later one?

[Tables]

There's probably not another direct cop, but there's likely other investigative roles, such as trackers (see who your target visits that night), watchers (see who visits your target), possibly rolecop (find out role ability but not alignment), more than likely some kind of JoaT (multiple one shot abilities... probably gaining more through evolution).

There's plenty of investigation potential there, and we probably have at least one of those (including cop) so we're probably alright.

[Archetype]

Yeah, but Tracker can't guarantee your alignment. 

[Galzria]

I'm sorry, but I really do not understand the theory that "The person that gets winvoted is more likely to be scum". I'm not saying that it's false, but it makes no sense to me that scum would go "Hey great, let's push our guy up for investigation!", unless you knew there was no cop (scum can't know that), or you know he's investigative immune (possible for 1, but not likely to be more).

[Archetype]

I'm sorry, but I really do not understand the theory that "The person that gets winvoted is more likely to be scum". I'm not saying that it's false, but it makes no sense to me that scum would go "Hey great, let's push our guy up for investigation!", unless you knew there was no cop (scum can't know that), or you know he's investigative immune (possible for 1, but not likely to be more).

That's what I'm saying. I don't Tables is scum for winning the winvotes. I think in the future scum would push their buddies so that they can win the most votes. So no, I don't think Tables is scum. This doesn't necessarily make him an IC, but I feel somewhat comfortable sheeping his votes.

[Axxle]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

Assumes we have a cop...

I do think scum would winvote their partners.

Since nolynch is not an option, is there a consensus?

That's hardly am unreasonable assumption, and scum would be idiots to bet against it D1.

Godfathers exist.

[Galzria]

Is it day 1, or still pregame? Either way,

WinVote: Tables because he's on my side.

Reminder: Whoever we winvote is immune to nightkills that night.

Advice: Whoever the cop is checks the person we winvote tonight. If they're town, don't report back. If they're scum, do.

Assumes we have a cop...

I do think scum would winvote their partners.

Since nolynch is not an option, is there a consensus?

That's hardly am unreasonable assumption, and scum would be idiots to bet against it D1.

Godfathers exist.

No, really? Man, too bad I never thought to mention anything like that...

[Galzria]

Oh wait, I did, 2 posts later...

Wait, wouldn't scum be super unwilling to vote their partner for the win if that means said partner will get copped? Am I missing somethng?

Unless they knew one of two things to be true:

A) There is no cop
- This was Ashersky's point, but I think it bears no weight, because there is no way they could unequivocally know this to be the case, and assuming it to be true would be terrible given how reasonable it is to expect there might be a cop in a role-madness game.

B) They know their player is investigation immune
- This is possible, and in fact the first person to point out the systems failings in regards to this is Tables himself. Now, it IS a concern, BUT if it's true then scum member ! Tables put into place a system that is largely beneficial to the town, just to but himself a clean investigation. AND, given that anybody who comes out is treated as "townie", it's not unreasonable to think they should have a target on their back for future nights. So expecting scum!Tables to run clean to the end of the game without "getting killed" would be a poor strategy indeed.

So in all, it's highly unlikely that "scum would rush to get their man winvoted".

[Axxle]

No, really? Man, too bad I never thought to mention anything like that...

Secret: I'm not really paying attention to this game yet.

[Robz888]

Okay, I retract my assertion.

[Axxle]

Robz is an alt of Galz?!

[Galzria]

Robz is an alt of Galz?!

Actually, I'm an alt of his. I needed more Mafia, and they wouldn't let me into more as just Robz888, so I had to create another account.

[ashersky]

Losevote: Jimmmmm

LaLL and all that.  Plus, we need to get to night.

[Eevee]

I'm in SO many games all of a sudden. I still feel I'm caught up with this, but rereading gambling at the casino helsinki day 1 made me realize how terrible it is to waste time on day 1 on stupid stuff, and I fear all my/our reads will get buried in the and nothing unless we start progressing soon.

So the way I see it, we have 4 losevotewagons:

cayvie for the stuff I've been pointing out,
me for the stuff cayvie has been pointing out,
Robz for lurking
Jimm for lurking.

Everyone comment on those, which do you think is the loseriest and stuff, lets try to get this sorted. Obviously the final target could be someone else, but having scum comment this stuff is also a great way of catching them. Maybe I should add a fifth: "Anyone else who has lurked", I'll do a postcount to check (including pregame, which there is none this time):

Robz: 11 !! First post 150 posts in.
Frisk/ashersky: 10+8 Ashersky appears to be less lurky than Frisk, so this is getting fixed.
Eevee: 46
Archetype: 15 Yeah, Robz, archetype is beating you here.
Dsell: 26
Jimmm: 4 ..... okay? Uhm. Didn't realize it was THIS bad. Glad I decided to do this.
Jorbles: 10 This is lurky too.
Insomniac: 18
Tables: 41
Axxle: 16
cayvie: 27
joth: 22
Galzria: 34

Ohkay, I retract a part of my cayvie case in that AT LEAST SHE IS PLAYING.

I'd strongly prefer Jimmmm, Robz or Jorbles just to punish them. Or I guess Axxle. Some of the <20 guys!  I'd like to see how people react to this post before deciding which to vote, Unvote in the mean time because no way cayvie is the best lynch. At least she posts. Discuss, people!

[ashersky]

Losevote: Jimmmmm

LaLL and all that.  Plus, we need to get to night.

[Dsell]

I am ok with lynching Axxle, Robz, or Jimmmmmmm.

[Eevee]

I am ok with lynching Axxle, Robz, or Jimmmmmmm.

Would be better/more helpful if you were able to rank them somehow / comment on it a bit more. I don't think anyone can really justify not being okay with any of those lynches, so that's not really saying much. (I do/did have the gut-based mini-good feeling about Robz but seeing his post count aggravated me enough to forget it. Also he is good enough to feed me some fake good buddy feeling as scum.)

[ashersky]

I am ok with lynching Axxle, Robz, or Jimmmmmmm.

Would be better/more helpful if you were able to rank them somehow / comment on it a bit more. I don't think anyone can really justify not being okay with any of those lynches, so that's not really saying much. (I do/did have the gut-based mini-good feeling about Robz but seeing his post count aggravated me enough to forget it. Also he is good enough to feed me some fake good buddy feeling as scum.)

Or, you know, vote.  Both of you.

[Dsell]

I'm already voting for Robz. Was previously voting for Axxle. I've made small cases on both of them but they do largely come down to lurking. Would be willing to lynch Jimmmmmmmmm purely on the lurk factor.

[Galzria]

I'm already on Robz.

Lurker!Robz has NEVER been town!Robz, but he HAS been scum!Robz, and honestly if he IS town here but can't find the time to contribute meaningfully, then he's in too many games, and removing him only helps his other games. But removing a lurker does NOT hurt us as much here if said lurker is town.

Obviously I hope that he's scum, and I have a lurker!Robz meta to back up my belief that he will, but I'm comfortable with this lynch either way.

Jimmmm also needs to get in here, and I wouldn't be adverse to his lynch, but Robz' Jimmmm vote makes me want Robz more.

[Eevee]

I am ok with lynching Axxle, Robz, or Jimmmmmmm.

Would be better/more helpful if you were able to rank them somehow / comment on it a bit more. I don't think anyone can really justify not being okay with any of those lynches, so that's not really saying much. (I do/did have the gut-based mini-good feeling about Robz but seeing his post count aggravated me enough to forget it. Also he is good enough to feed me some fake good buddy feeling as scum.)

Or, you know, vote.  Both of you.

as i said, i think i'll be able to make a more informed voting decision after seeing people answer the questions i asked them. but you are right, changing one's vote is free. I'm town between Robz and Jimmm, Robz is lurking more compared to his usual self but Jimmm is lurking more in the absolute sense. Robz's posts today felt genuine to me, Jimm is absent elsewhere too (although not to this extent, which makes me go Vote: Jimmmm in the end). But as I said, I think getting people to comment on this will help determining people's true intentions better, and I hope I'll have a better reason than someone having 4 posts after this exercise.

[Eevee]

Oh Galzria's point about lurker-Robz being scum earlier IS true. Vote: Robz, enough to tip the scale. (Fwiw if I die at night or something, the cayvie suspicion didn't really go away, we just NEED to do something about this lurking.)

[Galzria]

I didn't finish my thought in the first paragraph (I'm really tired). Lynching a town lurker here in an RMM game is less detrimental than lynching someone who's actually active, and further because it's RMM, no matter who we lynch, if they're town, we'll lose a PR, so worrying about that is less of a concern than usual.

[ashersky]

So Jimmmmm has 3 votes with Eevee, Robz has 2.  Cayvie had three at one point.  I think we need to focus on viable lynches and get one done.  Dragging out D1 is not doing us any good.  I strongly think we need to get to night and play out the RMMMMMMM-ness of the game.

PPE -- Make that 3  for Robz, 2 for Jimmmmm.

[cayvie]

Yeah, I think this is right.

losevote: Robz

Axxle's been lurking everywhere.
Jimmmmmm's been lurking everywhere.

Holiday season?

I think ashersky is town, btw.

[ashersky]

LoseVote: Robz888 to follow my own advice.

That's 5!

[ashersky]

Oh Galzria's point about lurker-Robz being scum earlier IS true. Vote: Robz, enough to tip the scale. (Fwiw if I die at night or something, the cayvie suspicion didn't really go away, we just NEED to do something about this lurking.)

Does Eevee need to type "Losevote" for this to count?

[Eevee]

Losevote: Robz, sorry. Intent was clear! L-2, lets not accidentally hammer twice in one day..

[Galzria]

Oh Galzria's point about lurker-Robz being scum earlier IS true. Vote: Robz, enough to tip the scale. (Fwiw if I die at night or something, the cayvie suspicion didn't really go away, we just NEED to do something about this lurking.)

Does Eevee need to type "Losevote" for this to count?

Ha! Habits. Damn them. Probably he does.

[ashersky]

Losevote: Robz, sorry. Intent was clear! L-2, lets not accidentally hammer twice in one day..

Let's intentionally hammer this time!

[Eevee]

Losevote: Robz, sorry. Intent was clear! L-2, lets not accidentally hammer twice in one day..

Let's intentionally hammer this time!

Let's! But let's hear what everyone has to say first. Including the guy who is at the moment skating to day 2 with FOUR posts and the man himself.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.5
LoseVote
Axxle (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): Axxle
cayvie (1): Tables
Galzria (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Insomniac
Jimmmmm (1): Robz888
{L-1}Robz888 (6): Galzria, Dsell, Jimmmmm, Eevee, cayvie, ashersky


Not voting (1): Archetype

WinVote--LOCKED
{Winner} Tables (7): Tables, Eevee, Axxle, Insomniac, Jorbles, Archetype, Galzria
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Captain_Frisk (1): Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1): Dsell
Insomniac (1): jotheonah

Not voting (2): cayvie, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

[Galzria]

Yikes! Unvote

L-2 is ok. L-1 is not cool.

[Galzria]

Yikes! Unvote

L-2 is ok. L-1 is not cool.

I still fully support this lynch, but I won't lynch Robz without him having a word to say first. His death reads are usually decent when town.

[Eevee]

Yikes! Unvote

L-2 is ok. L-1 is not cool.

I still fully support this lynch, but I won't lynch Robz without him having a word to say first. His death reads are usually decent when town.

Also we want to hear from Jimmmm, preferably Jorbles and Axxle as well!!
unvote until that happens actually, someone will just derp if i leave my vote there. i too am still behind this lynch, just would HATE for scum to skate through to day2 without commenting.

[Jimmmmm]

Hey, sorry.

My problem is, I'm in too many games. I just don't have the focus to be in 3 Mafia games at once. I'm going to try to catch up with everything and start contributing.

[Jimmmmm]

Well, at least I can do this to help bring the game into focus.

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

I ummed and uhhed about whether to include Tables in this list. I kind of didn't want to, probably just because I'd've enjoyed feeling powerful. I was going to not for a while because there's no guarantee there's a cop. But, of course, if he was scum it would be a stupid plan since he can't assume there's no cop, and if he gets winvoted, he'll probably be called out.

Unless, of course, his evolution is a "Godfather". Props to him if that's the case, but I think he's probably genuine.

[TheMunch]

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

It is super effective!

[Galzria]

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

It is super effective!

Deino is super confused!

Yeah, I've no vote what that was all about.

[Galzria]

Vote = clue on a tired phone.

[TheMunch]

Vote Count 1.6
LoseVote
Axxle (1): Jorbles
cayvie (1): Tables
Galzria (1): jotheonah
Jimmmmm (1): Robz888
Robz888 (4): Dsell, Jimmmmm, cayvie, ashersky
Eevee (0):

Not voting (5): Archetype, Galzria, Eevee, Insomniac, Axxle

WinVote--LOCKED
{Winner} Tables (7): Tables, Eevee, Axxle, Insomniac, Jorbles, Archetype, Galzria
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Eevee (1): Dsell
Axxle (0):
Cayvie (0):
Robz888 (0):
Galzria (0):

Not voting (4): cayvie, Robz888, Ashersky, jotheonah

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

Machop leers intently at the listed pokemon.  They are now the center of attention and subsequently the only valid vote targets for the rest of the day.

[Dsell]

Oh weird.

Who is that in usernames again?

[Dsell]

Ok so it's:

Robz
Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Eevee
Cayvie
Tables?
Axxle
Galzria

[Jimmmmm]

Sorry guys, I know it's more confusing, but just trying to be flavourful.

[Galzria]

In other words, he just lynch doctored Ashersky, Archetype, Jorbles, Insomniac, Dsell and Joth.

Care to explain why?

[Dsell]

Yeah, I don't see the method to this madness.

[ashersky]

Alright, did the avatar/sig thing.

I thought maybe. He was going with on/off lynch?  But nope.

Anything that ties the actual Pokemon together?

[Jimmmmm]

In other words, he just lynch doctored Ashersky, Archetype, Jorbles, Insomniac, Dsell and Joth.

Care to explain why?

To give everyone something to go with, and to hopefully give us some direction and get us closer to lynching. You might disagree with me that it was the right thing to do, but that's okay.

[ashersky]

In other words, he just lynch doctored Ashersky, Archetype, Jorbles, Insomniac, Dsell and Joth.

Care to explain why?

To give everyone something to go with, and to hopefully give us some direction and get us closer to lynching. You might disagree with me that it was the right thing to do, but that's okay.

I think the question was more why that specific group?

[Jimmmmm]

Well, me because I had to, Tables because otherwise that would re-open the winvotes, and then I made up the numbers with people who it looked like people were suspicious of, so we can focus on those particular cases for today.

[ashersky]

Well, me because I had to, Tables because otherwise that would re-open the winvotes, and then I made up the numbers with people who it looked like people were suspicious of, so we can focus on those particular cases for today.

Was the number of people you leered at fixed, or could you choose how many?

[Jimmmmm]

Half rounded up.

[ashersky]

So that's a cool power.

As scum, you could ensure a town lynch...but that'd be fairly obvious bad play.  I guess this early, with big numbers, it isn't so bad as a scum move...

As town, it's harder to use, given you don't have any info to base your selection on...so negative utility, I think, at best.

So...more a scum power than town?

[ashersky]

Also, have we discussed mass claiming?  Could that work at some point?

Or along those lines, if we have info that would be pro-town if shared, should we all share?

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah you're right. Easy to use as scum. Much harder to use effectively as Town.

[ashersky]

Huge idea alert!!!

I think we need to use follow-the-cop for this game.  Assuming he lives to D2, as long as he's win voted every day, he's NK exempt and mafia can do nothing about it.  Only mafia would vote against the plan as well.

This seems full-proof.

[Jimmmmm]

I think Tables' idea is pretty much a variation on that, isn't it?

[ashersky]

I think Tables' idea is pretty much a variation on that, isn't it?

Yes, but my idea guarantees the cop lives every night to investigate.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh okay, I see.

[ashersky]

I think it's sure to work, and kinda solves the game...

We give up fun and evolutions and stuff, though.  If the cop can never be killed (win vote means no lynch and no NK), we get a new investigation every night until we catch all the scum.

So, godfathers and day vigs become the only wrenches in the works, which is pretty nice.

[Jimmmmm]

I think if we have both Doctor/s and Cop/s there must be some sort of wrench.

[ashersky]

I think if we have both Doctor/s and Cop/s there must be some sort of wrench.

Usual follow-the-cop is hidden doc protects claimed cop.  Hre, we don't even need a doc and the cop lives forever.

[cayvie]

well, one wrench is this Leer ability

if the cop claims, and then someone else gets Leered at, we can't winvote them. (i assume? it says only valid vote targets, so presumably that's win and losevote)

[ashersky]

well, one wrench is this Leer ability

if the cop claims, and then someone else gets Leered at, we can't winvote them. (i assume? it says only valid vote targets, so presumably that's win and losevote)

Easy.  Lynch Jimmmmm today, no more Leer.

[cayvie]

where i was going with that too

losevote: jimmmmmm

[Jimmmmm]

Well that's one way of going about it. Here's another. If the cop claims and I exclude him from the Leer, then lynch me.

[Jimmmmm]

cayvie (and ash), do you actually think I'm scum, or are you just voting for me just in case I'm scum because I have an ability that would be more powerful if I was scum?

[cayvie]

cayvie (and ash), do you actually think I'm scum, or are you just voting for me just in case I'm scum because I have an ability that would be more powerful if I was scum?

i've got no clue if you're scum or not

you are however a lurker with a dangerous ability.

Well that's one way of going about it. Here's another. If the cop claims and I exclude him from the Leer, then lynch me.

nah, that still lets your buddies kill the cop

[Archetype]

We wait for D2 for the cop (if any) to claim, correct? It would be suicide for them to do so now.

I'd winvote you right now ashersky. I'm sure you're Town More than I'm sure Tables is.

LoseVote: Jimmmmmmmm. That Leer thing is going to be annoying, and seems like a scum power.

[Galzria]

Allow me to elucidate the problem here Jimmmmm. The following is your 5th post of this game:

Hey, sorry.

My problem is, I'm in too many games. I just don't have the focus to be in 3 Mafia games at once. I'm going to try to catch up with everything and start contributing.

Wherein you admit that you've got too much going on, and you're going to try and get yourself caught up (hey, cool, no problem. Happens to the best of us). 18 minutes later, you post this:

Well, at least I can do this to help bring the game into focus.

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

I ummed and uhhed about whether to include Tables in this list. I kind of didn't want to, probably just because I'd've enjoyed feeling powerful. I was going to not for a while because there's no guarantee there's a cop. But, of course, if he was scum it would be a stupid plan since he can't assume there's no cop, and if he gets winvoted, he'll probably be called out.

Unless, of course, his evolution is a "Godfather". Props to him if that's the case, but I think he's probably genuine.

Now, that seems to me like quite a leap, going from 4 posts in the game prior, and having little clue what's going on, to suddenly deciding that half the town -of your individual choosing- are off limits for the lynch today. Hey, maybe you just picked randomly though. I would disagree with that still, but at least it would be a reason... So I asked, and you responded with:

Well, me because I had to, Tables because otherwise that would re-open the winvotes, and then I made up the numbers with people who it looked like people were suspicious of, so we can focus on those particular cases for today.

So... In the 18 minutes between your posts in a game you haven't been following, you were able to go back, figure out who all we found suspicious, decide to use your power, AND type up the post leering everybody? Hey, maybe by "everybody found suspicious" you just meant according to the last votecount? So I check count 1.5, and notice there's no Eevee in sight, but both Jorbles and Ashersky have votes on them. So obviously you didn't just follow that either...

... And now there's a problem. Because what you did doesn't match up with what you've claimed. I don't buy that in 18 minutes you were able to make such a clear decision based on what "everybody felt" - and I don't like that you would remove the ability to vote for a certain group of people.

Additionally, what you claim and your reasons for choosing Tables make no sense. Tables was locked in as the Winvote already. He could no longer be voted for to win, or to lose. You claim that if you left him off, it would prevent him from being able to win... How? It doesn't (as far as I can tell) magically unlock the winvote, does it? So throwing Tables into the group of "can only vote for's" feels like a way to shrink that pool, so that you can leave more legitimate options off the table.

So yeah, I'm comfortable with a Losevote: Jimmmmm at this point.

[Jorbles]

Zzz

Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzzz
Zzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzz
losevote: cayvie

Zzzz zzzz
Zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz
zzzz

zzzz
winvote: galzria

zzzz zzzz zzzz
Zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz
ZZZZ Zzzz zzzz

Zzzz

losevote: robz888

Zzzz zzzz zzzz
Zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzz
Zzzz zzzz

Zzzz

losevote: jimmmm

winvote: tables
Winvote: galzria
Winvote: eevee
losevote: cayvie
Losevote: jimmmm
Losevote: robz888

[cayvie]

oh god i'd forgotten about this crap

[eHalcyon]

ash, pretty sure you are mew, not mewtwo. Or is that a joke about being a sub?

[jotheonah]

This sounds like townGalz at his best. I'm happy to join in on the Jimmmmmm wagon.

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

[Eevee]

Galzria makes an excellent case. I'd losevote jimm but don't want to accidentally hammer + I guess we better wait for his rebuttal. If Jimmm is lynched and flips scum, Galzria will be pretty much an ic.

[Galzria]

Galzria makes an excellent case. I'd losevote jimm but don't want to accidentally hammer + I guess we better wait for his rebuttal. If Jimmm is lynched and flips scum, Galzria will be pretty much an ic.

Bad Eevee.

No, I won't. I could be scum bussing a Lurker Lynch who happened to misstep. IC status is for mod confirmed announcements, or post-death cop investigations. That's it. Never give anybody a pass, even if they make good cases against what turn out to be scum.

That said, I am indeed town.

[Eevee]

Galzria makes an excellent case. I'd losevote jimm but don't want to accidentally hammer + I guess we better wait for his rebuttal. If Jimmm is lynched and flips scum, Galzria will be pretty much an ic.

Bad Eevee.

No, I won't. I could be scum bussing a Lurker Lynch who happened to misstep. IC status is for mod confirmed announcements, or post-death cop investigations. That's it. Never give anybody a pass, even if they make good cases against what turn out to be scum.

That said, I am indeed town.

Fell, I felt the tide was turning against Robz before your case. I know I was voting Robz. So unless they are both scum, my reasoning is sound in my opinion. Maybe not IC but insta-strongest town read at least.

[TheMunch]

phone posting so I can't vote count but Jim is at L-2

[Tables]

Request: Mod poke of Jim

[Galzria]

Tables, he posted less than 9 hours ago.

[Galzria]

Heck, he posted FIVE hours ago.

[Tables]

Ugh, I did a search of Jimmm and didn't find him, must have overlooked it because it was top of the page.

Anyway need to catch up this game now, suddenly there's another 3 pages for me to read.

[Axxle]

Saw Jimmm's leer then jumped ahead, Jimmm shouldn't be at L-2.  His leer was totally a town thing to do, especially since he included himself.

[Galzria]

Saw Jimmm's leer then jumped ahead, Jimmm shouldn't be at L-2.  His leer was totally a town thing to do, especially since he included himself.

Good, now go back and read and see that he was required to, it wasn't a choice.

[Axxle]

Never!

[Galzria]

Never!

Don't make me Bite you!

[Jimmmmm]

Hi I'm here.

I want you to think about this for a moment. If I had my two scumbuddies in my ear telling me what to, since they are most likely more experienced than me, is there any way in hell they would let me do what I did?

I honestly didn't realise at the time how suspicious it looked. My intent was simply to help us make a decision, and one that it looked like we might be heading towards anyway.

I know my ability is not particularly pro-Town. The only way it would be is if I happen to have better reads than everyone else, and even then using it only puts me at odds with the people voting for people I leave off the list.

But the alternative is not using it, but that makes me essentially a VT, and man I am not in a Role Madness game to be a VT.

[Jimmmmm]

I think now the only thing I can do with my ability is offer it to the Town. I think Tables is almost certainly Town, and I think most people think that too. So if he's cleared in day 2, then I'll Leer exactly when and at exactly whom Tables orders me to, unless there are major objections from like four others.

I am Town, but on the other hand I don't have a particularly helpful ability, I know that, and I also know I haven't contributed that much, so if you want to lynch me based on that, then I'd be a better choice than a Townie with a stronger ability.

[ashersky]

ash, pretty sure you are mew, not mewtwo. Or is that a joke about being a sub?

Yes, that's a jokey poke at the Mods for not letting me change pokemon.  Plus Mew is wimpy looking.

[Insomniac]

So I'm not sure I'll be able to commit too much to this game now I've had some RL stuff come up thats quite important, so if someone wants to replace in thats fine, otherwise I'll do my best

[Archetype]

Hmm Unvote. Leer just seems like such a scum power! But I don't know if that would make Jimmmm scum necessarily. Role Cop is a scum power, but I've seen Town get it too.

[Insomniac]

Hmm Unvote. Leer just seems like such a scum power! But I don't know if that would make Jimmmm scum necessarily. Role Cop is a scum power, but I've seen Town get it too.

The time I gave Rolecop accidently to Axxle doesn't count.

[Dsell]

Frankly, my role seems like a scum role, but I am town.

So possibly roles were determined before alignment.

[Dsell]

My point being that I don't think Jimmmm is automatically scummy for having that role.

[Galzria]

Frankly, my role seems like a scum role, but I am town.

So possibly roles were determined before alignment.

My role could not exist on a scum player without being completely and ridiculously unbalanced. My alignment, I'm sure, was decided before giving me my power.

[Dsell]

Frankly, my role seems like a scum role, but I am town.

So possibly roles were determined before alignment.

My role could not exist on a scum player without being completely and ridiculously unbalanced. My alignment, I'm sure, was decided before giving me my power.

It's possible that my role would be overpowered on scum. But it seems super weak or even negative utility on town. Oh well. I won't be pursuing winvotes very hard though.

[Axxle]

Reading through this after dinner.

[ashersky]

Where are we on this?

[Galzria]

Robz or Jimm please.

[ashersky]

I think I am already voting Jimmmm.

[Galzria]

I think I am already voting Jimmmm.

Well, you asked where we were.

[ashersky]

I think I am already voting Jimmmm.

Well, you asked where we were.

Can we end this day and get to the battle?

[Galzria]

I think I am already voting Jimmmm.

Well, you asked where we were.

Can we end this day and get to the battle?

I would love to, but I too am on Jimmm, who is L-3 I believe.

[Axxle]

Jimmm's ability is very like Governor.

I don't see the point of using the ability as scum in this situation.

[Galzria]

Jimmm's ability is very like Governor.

I don't see the point of using the ability as scum in this situation.

The argument isn't if the play made sense or not. It didn't as either faction. The case is that he made two posts within 18 minutes, that don't really support one another, especially after I asked him to explain himself.

[Galzria]

Allow me to elucidate the problem here Jimmmmm. The following is your 5th post of this game:

Hey, sorry.

My problem is, I'm in too many games. I just don't have the focus to be in 3 Mafia games at once. I'm going to try to catch up with everything and start contributing.

Wherein you admit that you've got too much going on, and you're going to try and get yourself caught up (hey, cool, no problem. Happens to the best of us). 18 minutes later, you post this:

Well, at least I can do this to help bring the game into focus.

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

I ummed and uhhed about whether to include Tables in this list. I kind of didn't want to, probably just because I'd've enjoyed feeling powerful. I was going to not for a while because there's no guarantee there's a cop. But, of course, if he was scum it would be a stupid plan since he can't assume there's no cop, and if he gets winvoted, he'll probably be called out.

Unless, of course, his evolution is a "Godfather". Props to him if that's the case, but I think he's probably genuine.

Now, that seems to me like quite a leap, going from 4 posts in the game prior, and having little clue what's going on, to suddenly deciding that half the town -of your individual choosing- are off limits for the lynch today. Hey, maybe you just picked randomly though. I would disagree with that still, but at least it would be a reason... So I asked, and you responded with:

Well, me because I had to, Tables because otherwise that would re-open the winvotes, and then I made up the numbers with people who it looked like people were suspicious of, so we can focus on those particular cases for today.

So... In the 18 minutes between your posts in a game you haven't been following, you were able to go back, figure out who all we found suspicious, decide to use your power, AND type up the post leering everybody? Hey, maybe by "everybody found suspicious" you just meant according to the last votecount? So I check count 1.5, and notice there's no Eevee in sight, but both Jorbles and Ashersky have votes on them. So obviously you didn't just follow that either...

... And now there's a problem. Because what you did doesn't match up with what you've claimed. I don't buy that in 18 minutes you were able to make such a clear decision based on what "everybody felt" - and I don't like that you would remove the ability to vote for a certain group of people.

Additionally, what you claim and your reasons for choosing Tables make no sense. Tables was locked in as the Winvote already. He could no longer be voted for to win, or to lose. You claim that if you left him off, it would prevent him from being able to win... How? It doesn't (as far as I can tell) magically unlock the winvote, does it? So throwing Tables into the group of "can only vote for's" feels like a way to shrink that pool, so that you can leave more legitimate options off the table.

So yeah, I'm comfortable with a Losevote: Jimmmmm at this point.

[Dsell]

Losevote: Jimmmmmm

Galz' case is good.

[Axxle]

Vote Count 1.5
LoseVote
Axxle (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): Axxle
cayvie (1): Tables
Galzria (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Insomniac
Jimmmmm (1): Robz888
{L-1}Robz888 (6): Galzria, Dsell, Jimmmmm, Eevee, cayvie, ashersky


Not voting (1): Archetype

Axxle, Jorbles, cayvie, Galz, ashersky, Jimmmmm, Robz

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

Axxle, Jorbles, cayvie, Galz, ashersky, Jimmmmm, Robz, +Tables, +Eevee

It's pretty close.

[Galzria]

Vote Count 1.5
LoseVote
Axxle (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): Axxle
cayvie (1): Tables
Galzria (1): jotheonah
ashersky (1): Insomniac
Jimmmmm (1): Robz888
{L-1}Robz888 (6): Galzria, Dsell, Jimmmmm, Eevee, cayvie, ashersky


Not voting (1): Archetype

Axxle, Jorbles, cayvie, Galz, ashersky, Jimmmmm, Robz

Machop uses Leer on Machop, Bagon, Cubone, Eevee, Totodile, Deino and Pidgey.

Axxle, Jorbles, cayvie, Galz, ashersky, Jimmmmm, Robz, +Tables, +Eevee

It's pretty close.

"Pretty close but not quite for no given reason, even when asked" seems a lot more like a scum trait to me than I town trait.

[Axxle]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

[Galzria]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Robz888]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

Basically.

[Galzria]

That, and he dropped in from lurkhood to vote Jimmm, without providing any reasons, but Ashersky had JUST made a lurker!Jimmm case. So it was really Pot meet Kettle.

[Archetype]

Jimmm's ability is very like Governor.

I don't see the point of using the ability as scum in this situation.

Really? I thought it was more like Gladiator.

Oh wow. And I'm not voting. Should I hammer Robz?

[Dsell]

He's not hammerable anymore because I voted Jimmmmm.

[Robz888]

Jimmm's ability is very like Governor.

I don't see the point of using the ability as scum in this situation.

Really? I thought it was more like Gladiator.

Oh wow. And I'm not voting. Should I hammer Robz?

Nah, hammer Jimm, man!

[Archetype]

He's not hammerable anymore because I voted Jimmmmm.

Oh. Probably need to read back farther.

Naw, I'll LoseVote: Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Gladiator seems more like a scum role anyway.

[ashersky]

losevote: jimmmmm in case I am not there.  Get rid of leer, follow the cop with win vote über doctoring, win!

[ashersky]

mods: this is Mew(two) requesting a vote count!

[Axxle]

I think he was probably hammered by now.

[TheMunch]

Sorry, was focused on XVI.  Doing vote count now.  I think thats hammer but I'm doublechecking.

[TheMunch]

Vote Count 1.7
LoseVote
Axxle (0):
cayvie (1): Tables
Galzria (0):
{Loser} Jimmmmm (7): Robz888, Cayvie, Galzria, Jotheonah, Dsell, Archetype, Ashersky
Robz888 (2): Jimmmmm, Jorbles
Eevee (0):

Not voting (3): Eevee, Insomniac, Axxle

WinVote--LOCKED
{Winner} Tables (7): Tables, Eevee, Axxle, Insomniac, Jorbles, Archetype, Galzria
Jimmmmm (1): Jimmmmm
Eevee (1): Dsell
Axxle (0):
Cayvie (0):
Robz888 (0):
Galzria (0):

Not voting (4): cayvie, Robz888, Ashersky, jotheonah

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Thursday, December 27th, 4:00pm forum time

Machop leers intently at the listed pokemon.  They are now the center of attention and subsequently the only valid vote targets for the rest of the day.

[TheMunch]

Thread Locked.

[TheMunch]

"There's no way an innocent Bagon could have killed our master," you all shout in unison.  This only makes you nervous as fingers begin to be pointed.  Over the roar of the crowd, an otherwise silent machop quiets the cacophony with the look of a wronged mother.  "But Machop, who gives you the right to decide who we kill?" Deino asks with a chomp of his teeth.  "Yeah!" everyone agrees.  "Bagon, get 'em!"  Bagon lowers his head, and with one last glance over at Pidgey he charges at Machop.  Before he could say another word, the Companion Gladiator Machop's heart had stopped.  He was dead.

Please submit Night actions by 8pm Sunday December 23.

Night 1 Start!!

[TheMunch]

What? BAGON is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your BAGON has evolved into SHELGON!

[TheMunch]

Due to Christmas and Incompleteness of night action submissions, Night has been extended to 8pm Dec 26.

GET NIGHT ACTIONS IN!

[TheMunch]

The sun breaks.  Rays of light shine through the tall grass, and with it the smell of blood.  You look around trying to find where such a strong smell is coming from, only to find that the source is not one but two bodies.  In a clearing you find clawed into the fresh dirt the words "no regrets" right next to the Beloved Specialist TRAITOR Eevee.  Nearby you find the body of the Companion Mastermind Mew with a look of shock in his face.  Surely, such a look of innocence could not be on the face of your master's murderers.  The search must continue...

I nearly forgot the best part.  With two deaths that means two evolutions!

What? GASTLY is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your GASTLY has evolved into HAUNTER!

What? DEINO is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your DEINO has evolved into ZWEILOUS!


DAY 2 START!

[Tables]

Okay, so scum got shot, that's definitely a good thing right now, but it could mean either serial killer or vigilante, one of which is good and one is bad. Right now there's no point dwelling on those possibilities, we should just move on.

Okay, my reads based on yesterday... scum have done me a HUGE favor killing my main scumread, there were too many issues with Asherky's plan (it's like mine, except, with MUCH bigger risk/reward, and I was already pointing out the issues in my plan). Still the fact scum killed him makes me confident, they didn't like the plan either, which is a good sign.

Right I didn't post for a lot of the end of yesterday while I was catching up, I'm now looking back through my notes.

Galz seems very town to me, he's pointing out things that weaken his own position (359) which is typically a towntell. Could be faking, Galz is a good player, but I'm somewhat more confident in him than the average. His arguments were also very accurate and to the point (328, 353).

Looking back at my records for Eevee, I can't make out an awful lot. If anything, he was looking quite happy to set me up as scum. There's things I'm expecting based on this but I won't announce them. However...

Cayvie looks pretty bad to me right now. Firstly, the way Eevee was attacking him at first (147-160 or so) in retrospect looks somewhat like an early bus to set up distance between them, then there's the fact he sheeps the losevote on Robz pretty quickly (Eevee-305 & Cayvie-308).

I'm going to throw out a very early:
Winvote: Galzria
Losevote: Cayvie

For now.

Also for easy reference for those who don't know pokemon so well:
Player - Pokemon
Archetype - Aron (1/3)
Axxle - Totodile (1/3)
Ashersky - Mew (1/1)
Cayvie - Pidgey (1/3)
Dsell - Scyther (1/1)
Eevee - Eevee (1/2)
Galzria - Zweilous (2/3)
Insomniac - Haunter (2/3)
Jimmmmm - Machop (1/3)
Jorbles - Snorlax (1/1)
Jotheonah - Psyduck (1/2)
Robz888 - Cubone (1/2)
Tables - Shelgon (2/3)

[Tables]

Also can't find anything for (Beloved) Specialist, but for Mastermind there's a redirect to this.

Based on this, a new theory of what happened emerges. Ashersky took on Eevee as a mentee, and being killed, Eevee died with him. Of course this assumes Ashersky was a perfectly standard Mentor/Mastermind, but, that seems plausible to me.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.1
LoseVote
cayvie (1): Tables

Not voting (9): Archetype, Axxle, cayvie, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888

WinVote
Galzria (1): Tables

Not voting (9): Archetype, Axxle, cayvie, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[cayvie]

Okay, so scum got shot, that's definitely a good thing right now, but it could mean either serial killer or vigilante, one of which is good and one is bad. Right now there's no point dwelling on those possibilities, we should just move on.

Okay, my reads based on yesterday... scum have done me a HUGE favor killing my main scumread, there were too many issues with Asherky's plan (it's like mine, except, with MUCH bigger risk/reward, and I was already pointing out the issues in my plan). Still the fact scum killed him makes me confident, they didn't like the plan either, which is a good sign.

Right I didn't post for a lot of the end of yesterday while I was catching up, I'm now looking back through my notes.

Galz seems very town to me, he's pointing out things that weaken his own position (359) which is typically a towntell. Could be faking, Galz is a good player, but I'm somewhat more confident in him than the average. His arguments were also very accurate and to the point (328, 353).

Looking back at my records for Eevee, I can't make out an awful lot. If anything, he was looking quite happy to set me up as scum. There's things I'm expecting based on this but I won't announce them. However...

Cayvie looks pretty bad to me right now. Firstly, the way Eevee was attacking him at first (147-160 or so) in retrospect looks somewhat like an early bus to set up distance between them, then there's the fact he sheeps the losevote on Robz pretty quickly (Eevee-305 & Cayvie-308).

I'm going to throw out a very early:
Winvote: Galzria
Losevote: Cayvie

For now.

Also for easy reference for those who don't know pokemon so well:
Player - Pokemon
Archetype - Aron (1/3)
Axxle - Totodile (1/3)
Ashersky - Mew (1/1)
Cayvie - Pidgey (1/3)
Dsell - Scyther (1/1)
Eevee - Eevee (1/2)
Galzria - Zweilous (2/3)
Insomniac - Haunter (2/3)
Jimmmmm - Machop (1/3)
Jorbles - Snorlax (1/1)
Jotheonah - Psyduck (1/2)
Robz888 - Cubone (1/2)
Tables - Shelgon (2/3)

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

[Archetype]

Assuming there's a Cop of course.

If anyone's a Cop, tell us now. Tell us your investigations, then we'll winvote you.

[cayvie]

Assuming there's a Cop of course.

If anyone's a Cop, tell us now. Tell us your investigations, then we'll winvote you.

what

[Archetype]

I thought the plan was to keep winvoting the Cop to Doctor him while he keeps investigating.

[cayvie]

I thought the plan was to keep winvoting the Cop to Doctor him while he keeps investigating.

i thought the cop was supposed to investigate whoever we winvoted

[Archetype]

I thought the plan was to keep winvoting the Cop to Doctor him while he keeps investigating.

i thought the cop was supposed to investigate whoever we winvoted

I thought Ashersky suggested that we winvite the Cop for NK immunity.

But never mind, it's probably a bad idea. There could be redirectors and I think the Doctoring only works until they reach their final stage.

[Tables]

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

I wasn't happy about this plan when I first read it but now the mafia (well, probably the mafia) killed Ashersky, it makes me a lot more confident that it's a good plan.

[jotheonah]

So the next step in the plan is for the Cop to claim?

Is that something we all want?

[Tables]

Stuff

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

Well it can't be 100% accurate, but we'll see what happens. I want you to post your reasons now. I find you suspicious based on your day 1 play, and you immediately (and for I think the first time all game) suddenly find me scummy. At the first point I could actually be voted for. That's... pretty suspicious, to say the least.

I think the cop claiming is probably the best course of action, BUT I would like my question above answered first. Although having said that this game is not going to be that long, so... eh.

[cayvie]

Stuff

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

Well it can't be 100% accurate, but we'll see what happens. I want you to post your reasons now. I find you suspicious based on your day 1 play, and you immediately (and for I think the first time all game) suddenly find me scummy. At the first point I could actually be voted for. That's... pretty suspicious, to say the least.

I think the cop claiming is probably the best course of action, BUT I would like my question above answered first. Although having said that this game is not going to be that long, so... eh.

yeah alright

i attack eevee day 1

eevee turns out to be scum

clearly i'm scum, you figured it out

[Robz888]

So the next step in the plan is for the Cop to claim?

Is that something we all want?

Fyi, in normal setups that include a Cop and Doctor for sure, that is the thing you are supposed to do.

[Axxle]

Can we look at the Jimmm wagon? Because that was a bad lynch.

[Axxle]

Can we look at the Jimmm wagon? Because that was a bad lynch.

Eh, I guess we can look at Eevee's interactions and why asher was killed too.

[Tables]

Stuff

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

Well it can't be 100% accurate, but we'll see what happens. I want you to post your reasons now. I find you suspicious based on your day 1 play, and you immediately (and for I think the first time all game) suddenly find me scummy. At the first point I could actually be voted for. That's... pretty suspicious, to say the least.

I think the cop claiming is probably the best course of action, BUT I would like my question above answered first. Although having said that this game is not going to be that long, so... eh.

yeah alright

i attack eevee day 1

eevee turns out to be scum

clearly i'm scum, you figured it out

Except, I never said that. I said Eevee was attacking you, and it was over nothing. It seemed insincere at the time. Here's my notes from the spreadsheet:
(Eevee section):

148: Instantly aggressive towards Cayvie for being lost...
*148: Losevote Cayvie
152: Accuses Cayvie's behavior of being untownlike
//I really don't like this. This seems very forced.

(Cayvie section):

147: First vote after getting on.
153: OMGUS vote
*153: Losevote Eevee
156: This is interesting... feels like a passive accusation
162: Finds Eevee's reasoning poor
//I agree with Cayvie here. Note this argument goes on over a few posts

I haven't gone back to check exactly what was said there, but that's not directly relevant now. What's a lot more relevant is that you just twisted my words, which were right there, right in front of you, and proceed to get extremely defensive over what was a relatively minor accusation. Defensive is good, OMGUS and word twisting as your first defence, that looks pretty bad.

Re Axxle: Here's my entire set of notes on Eevee:

19: Declares me a mini-town read
*60: Winvote Tables
79: Suggests everyone gives winvotes to someone else to get things moving
148: Instantly aggressive towards Cayvie for being lost...
*148: Losevote Cayvie
152: Accuses Cayvie's behavior of being untownlike
//I really don't like this. This seems very forced.
159: Replies to Cayvie, that his behaviour had seemed suspicious.
172: Explained actions some more, I'm no longer suspicious.
271: Robz play sounds like his typical day 1 town play
280: Finds it unlikely that scum would try and get themselves winvoted day 1
297: Checked player post counts, found Jim is most lurking
*297: Unlosevote
304: Jim is lurking too much
*304: LoseVote: Jimm
304: Actually decides Galz is right
*305: Losevote: Robz

Those are straight out of my spreadsheet, most numbered things are summaries of posts, // indicates my comment on something, starred is votes.

[cayvie]

ok tables

you've clearly decided to come out gunning for me whatever i say

[Tables]

You're implying I haven't given good reason to be suspicious of you.

You've twisted my words, and your response to that was to accuse me of having "decided to come out gunning for you," instead of giving a reason why you twisted what I said.

You immediately attacked me for being suspicious of you, instead of trying to defend the accusations made.

You've since failed to provide, I think, a single defence of any of the things you've been accused, preferring instead to accuse me.

Of course, it's not Cayvie I have to convince is scummy. It's everyone else. There's a whole day to have discussion in ahead, but I'd like to see what others have thought about Cayvie's posts here.

[cayvie]

i'm too exhausted to muster a defense here, sorry

i don't know if you're town or not, tables, but if you are, you're wrong about me.

and if you're not, well, you knew that already.

[Dsell]

I dunno what to say about the Tables/Cayvie conflict. I haven't found either of them particularly scummy and I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other. I still would guess that Tables is town (although it's looking less and less likely that we have a cop (Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).


I'm debating whether to reveal my night action. Like I mentioned before, it's not exactly very pro-town, though it could be put to good use in the right situation. I think I'll remain cryptic about it for a while and if something comes up where I really really have to reveal, I will. I'm definitely not begging for winvotes though. On that note, do we want to winvote Tables again? Obviously if we have a cop and they are yet to reveal, they could be a good target.

Another thing, do we want Tables to claim? If we winvote him, he'll be at his final stage, and I'd like to know whether it's even something we want around. If he is some great PR (barring a cop claim or something), we'll protect him anyway, so it's not as if we're at risk of him getting NK'd.

[Archetype]

I agree with Dsell. If there turns it to be no Cop, Tables should most definitally claim. Both his current stages power, and his evelution's power if we choose to win vote him.

[Insomniac]

Well this tables/cayvie conflict is a bit wierd.

[shraeye]

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

[jotheonah]

Ok, here goes. I'm sort of the cop. My Fury Swipes power is currently a role cop- it tells me the names of a player's moves. But as Golduck, I learn Fling, which is an alignment cop. I role copped tables yeaterday, I can name his moves if he wants to prove myself.

[Dsell]

Winvote: Jotheonah

No, actually I think Tables should give the names of his moves, though he shouldn't say what they do yet at this point.

[jotheonah]

I guess I'll Winvote: jotheonah too.

I could name one of Table's moves and he could name the other?

[Tables]

That could definitely be interesting.

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

Ah, but... emphasis mine. A strict reading might imply the evolution was contingent on evolving, which they don't.

Anyway, Joth, go ahead and name the rest of my moves. I'll name one of them in a second, right now I'm trying to find the PM with them. I can remember two of the move names but not the order they appear in. And the PM is hidden among a mass of Resistance votes, Through the Ages discards and other such nonsense.

[Tables]

Okay, found it (I have conversation view, so it was right near the top where I replied to it, not a few weeks ago where I was looking ¬_¬).

Although I've just had a second though. Why are we doing this? We should wait until everyone's come on and (not) claimed proper cop before we reveal everyone's moves, surely? And especially we shouldn't winvote him on the grounds of his claim, this could easily be a scum power, right?

[Tables]

Actually I don't really see any damage to revealing my moves, so, whatever.

My first move is Leer. My second is Scary Face. Joth can tell you my third, but it doesn't clear him.

[jotheonah]

I can't actually. My investigation only revealed those two. If you have a third move it's news to me.

[Tables]

Oh. So it didn't reveal the move I learn upon final evolution?

[jotheonah]

Probably because you had only evolved once when the cop resolved. Then you evolved again at start of day.

[jotheonah]

Wait, crtch that, got confused.

[cayvie]

I dunno what to say about the Tables/Cayvie conflict. I haven't found either of them particularly scummy and I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other. I still would guess that Tables is town (although it's looking less and less likely that we have a cop (Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).


I'm debating whether to reveal my night action. Like I mentioned before, it's not exactly very pro-town, though it could be put to good use in the right situation. I think I'll remain cryptic about it for a while and if something comes up where I really really have to reveal, I will. I'm definitely not begging for winvotes though. On that note, do we want to winvote Tables again? Obviously if we have a cop and they are yet to reveal, they could be a good target.

Another thing, do we want Tables to claim? If we winvote him, he'll be at his final stage, and I'd like to know whether it's even something we want around. If he is some great PR (barring a cop claim or something), we'll protect him anyway, so it's not as if we're at risk of him getting NK'd.

okay, now i've slept.

losevote: Dsell

this "come in as the voice of reason in a conflict" attitude is very similar to how he behaved as scum early in Domafia. (check this page)

ringing particularly false is the bit where he's like "I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other."

I haven't actually made any arguments against Tables!

[Dsell]

@cayvie: Ok so don't call it an argument then, but you did say you found him scummy.

I don't want to put full trust in Jo here, by the way. I definitely want to winvote him, but I could see a situation where he's mafia and didn't see anyone claiming cop (because maybe the mods didn't want both a cop and doctor mechanism in the game) and jumped on the chance.

[Archetype]

So Tables, you have the same move as Jimmmm? Interesting. I'm going to hold off winvoting for now. We do need a Cop for our strategy to work, but Rolecop is easily a scumpower. But if it's the best we've got, then we have to roll with it.

But Fury Swipes? That doesn't sound like a name for a Cop power at all.

[Dsell]

But Fury Swipes? That doesn't sound like a name for a Cop power at all.

I do agree with this. Jo, what is the name of Golduck's attack?

Disclaimer: this might be totally reading into it too much.

[Tables]

So Tables, you have the same move as Jimmmm? Interesting. I'm going to hold off winvoting for now. We do need a Cop for our strategy to work, but Rolecop is easily a scumpower. But if it's the best we've got, then we have to roll with it.

But Fury Swipes? That doesn't sound like a name for a Cop power at all.

I do not. It has the same name, which is the thing I figured people would find interesting. The move itself is totally different.

[Dsell]

That is really weird. Like, really really strange. It almost seems bastard if it's true, especially because there are SO MANY other attack names they could have given the role.

[Tables]

Shelgon uses Leer on Cubone, Aron, Scyther, Shorlax, Haunter, Shelgon

This will have no effect, unless it's a hidden ability, in which case, I'll be as surprised as everyone else and entirely unsurprised at getting lynched. It is exactly the same wording as Jim's Leer (I think).

[Tables]

Oh and it was the first six people in order on the first post, so yeah.

[TheMunch]

Shelgon uses Leer on Cubone, Aron, Scyther, Shorlax, Haunter, Shelgon

This will have no effect, unless it's a hidden ability, in which case, I'll be as surprised as everyone else and entirely unsurprised at getting lynched. It is exactly the same wording as Jim's Leer (I think).

But nothing happened!

[cayvie]

Shelgon uses Leer on Cubone, Aron, Scyther, Shorlax, Haunter, Shelgon

This will have no effect, unless it's a hidden ability, in which case, I'll be as surprised as everyone else and entirely unsurprised at getting lynched. It is exactly the same wording as Jim's Leer (I think).

But nothing happened!

i'm not sure what this proves.

that different moves can be named the same thing, i guess

[jotheonah]

I was confused by the names too, but it's fury swipes and fling, and they're cop powers.

[Archetype]

Hmm you'd think they'd be something like SuperSleuth or Foresight or something like that. My power is very flavorful to it's name. But maybe that isnt he same for everyone? There's enough Move names that would think everyone's power would match up with one.

So Tables: Your 'Leer' move isn't the same as Jimmmm's? I agree, that is very strange.

[Tables]

Leer and Scary Face I don't think represent my moves at all. Double Team does, in name at least, not in in-game effect.

Anyway people who have not posted since day 2 started:
Galzria
Jorbles

Once those two have posted we'll know if there's a cop and/or if they've investigated me. More to the point I should probably ask:
Jorbles are you the cop?

[Galzria]

Sorry, I've been a bit overwhelmed.

Tables, I wish you had waited to announce your moves until after Joth claimed them . Now we're left with him going "yeah, that's what I saw, and nothing more". Still, I suppose what's done is done.

I need to ask a generic question, and I want a generic answer, not specific:

Did anybody target me last night? This is an important yes/no question, and I do NOT want anybody to claim their power if the answer is "yes".

Also, not to make things more confusing than they already might be, but if I were the cop, and got a town result on Tables, I would NOT be claiming at this time. So don't take my lack of doing to be anything more than just that. It's not worth tipping my hand as a cop to report a town result, sorry.

[Tables]

Oh yeah I hadn't said before what my final move is, looks like I just slipped it. Clearly not paying enough attention. No big loss. Now you know, Leer, Scary Face, Double Team.

I didn't realise Joth had only seen two of my moves, so I figured naming those two and him naming the third would work. But him only seeing the moves I have now makes sense as well. And I could have easily claimed afterwards that I lied, if he just agreed.

Also, Galz, the plan is that if there's a cop, we're going to winvote them to protect them. I did not target you last night.

Now anyway read back, have a few thoughts.

Firstly, does anyone else find Cayvie suspicious after that series of posts? I had slept on it and decided Cayvie maybe wasn't quite so bad as I'd first thought. Then I saw his reply to DSells post:

...losevote: Dsell

this "come in as the voice of reason in a conflict" attitude is very similar to how he behaved as scum early in Domafia. (check this page)

ringing particularly false is the bit where he's like "I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other."

I haven't actually made any arguments against Tables!

So, Cayvie finds DSell scummy because he feels DSell isn't properly representing Cayvie's position. But Cayvie finds it bewildering that I found him scummy because he totally changed the wording of my posts.

So Cayvie's managed to get himself straight back into my firing line.

[Galzria]

I understand what the plan is supposed to be there Tables,  but there are faults to it. I agree that it was proposed by a now dead townie, but that doesn't make it the best course of action.

Let's take for example, Joth, who claims Rolecop, and in the future Cop. Tell me, what happens if he's scum?

[Tables]

You do realise, I was the one saying it was most likely a flawed plan. Heck, my first post of the day was saying, I'm glad Ashersky died because he was my main FOS in the night! But the fact he WAS killed makes me think... there's a decent chance there isn't a cop. Joth's claim is not of cop. It does seem like nobody is currently a normal cop. In fact, Joth sounds a lot like potentially being a stalker as opposed to a cop, so yeah.

[cayvie]

Firstly, does anyone else find Cayvie suspicious after that series of posts? I had slept on it and decided Cayvie maybe wasn't quite so bad as I'd first thought. Then I saw his reply to DSells post:

...losevote: Dsell

this "come in as the voice of reason in a conflict" attitude is very similar to how he behaved as scum early in Domafia. (check this page)

ringing particularly false is the bit where he's like "I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other."

I haven't actually made any arguments against Tables!

So, Cayvie finds DSell scummy because he feels DSell isn't properly representing Cayvie's position. But Cayvie finds it bewildering that I found him scummy because he totally changed the wording of my posts.

So Cayvie's managed to get himself straight back into my firing line.

yeah because you've represented the content of my post so accurately

i find Dsell suspicious there because he's acting like scum Dsell i've played with before. that was the first sentence of the post you quoted.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz zzz

[Galzria]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz zzz

#457

No, he is not the Cop.

[Jorbles]

lose vote: cayvie

Winvote: galzria
Winvote: tables
Winbote: jotheonah

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

lose vote: cayvie

[Galzria]

zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Can we look at the Jimmm wagon? Because that was a bad lynch.

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
Zzz zzz
Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Tables Case on Cayvie

lose vote: cayvie

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.2
LoseVote
cayvie (2): Tables, Jorbles
Dsell (1): cayvie

Not voting (7 ): Archetype, Axxle, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888

WinVote
Galzria (1): Tables
jotheonah (2): Dsell, jotheonah
Tables (1): Jorbles

Not voting (6): Archetype, Axxle, cayvie, Galzria, Insomniac, Robz888

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Jorbles]

winvote: galzria
Winvote: tables
Winvote: jotheonah

[cayvie]

i can also get behind a winvote: jotheonah

[Tables]

Okay. Nobody is claiming cop, and Joth is the closest thing we have. I'm still hesitant to winvote him right now, but wouldn't really object to it. It's at L-2 now though, let's not accidentally winvote someone again.

[Tables]

yeah because you've represented the content of my post so accurately

i find Dsell suspicious there because he's acting like scum Dsell i've played with before. that was the first sentence of the post you quoted.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'm going to take it as just being truth, because otherwise this is both an Ad Hominem, AND a claim you're making against me without evidence, AND this totally fails to defend the allegation being made against you. Again. You're getting extremely defensive without defending yourself. Go ahead and show where I've been misrepresenting your posts.

[cayvie]

i like kittens

[Tables]

i like kittens

Unlosevote Cayvie. No bad people like kittens.

(I will be re-losevoting soon unless Cayvie or others provide good reason why I shouldn't)

[Archetype]

I don't know if I'm ok with Winvoting Jo. Something's fishy about that whole thing.

[jotheonah]

Is it that you don't like the move names?

I was sort of planning on how to make a push for winvotes day 1 without looking scummy but then the whole Tables thing happened so fast that I figured lying low was better. I've recently learned how easy it is to be fingered by the mafia as a cop.

The thing is, Archetype, now that I HAVE claimed, if the town doesn't winvote me, I'll almost certainly die tonight. So my ass is kind of on the line.

[Galzria]

Is it that you don't like the move names?

I was sort of planning on how to make a push for winvotes day 1 without looking scummy but then the whole Tables thing happened so fast that I figured lying low was better. I've recently learned how easy it is to be fingered by the mafia as a cop.

The thing is, Archetype, now that I HAVE claimed, if the town doesn't winvote me, I'll almost certainly die tonight. So my ass is kind of on the line.

Play out an experiment for me Joth. Let's assume for a moment that you're a scum role-cop/alignment-cop when upgraded (or maybe you go from move names at level 1 to move powers at higher levels. Whatever). Now let's say we buy into this Cop claim you've made, because hey, why not?

Question: How does town ever get around to winning?

[Archetype]

Is it that you don't like the move names?

Yes. My move is very appropriate to what it does. Seems your's and Tables aren't. Maybe more..? I don't know.

Actually, I have a request for everyone: Say if your move names match your power. I don't want you to claim the name of the power, and of course not what it does. Just let me know if it's inline with what you would expect it to do.

I know, big time fishing from me. I'm willing to claim my move name if people think that this fishing would benefit scum more than it would to see if Jo's Rolecop claim is fine if it doesn't match the name.

[Archetype]

The thing is, Archetype, now that I HAVE claimed, if the town doesn't winvote me, I'll almost certainly die tonight. So my ass is kind of on the line.

If you're Town it is. I think it's unlikely there is a Docotor (the winvoting covers that), so if you are Town, then yes, you are most likely going to die tonight if you don't get winvoted.

[Dsell]

My role name IS in line with what you'd expect it to do. Pretty much, anyway.

[Galzria]

I would like to take a moment to remind people that I WOULD like to know if you targeted me last night. You can remain completely silent on every aspect of your role, it's simply a yes/no question.

[Archetype]

No. Well I might of, but if I did, it wasn't on purpose.

[cayvie]

I would like to take a moment to remind people that I WOULD like to know if you targeted me last night. You can remain completely silent on every aspect of your role, it's simply a yes/no question.

no

[cayvie]

Is it that you don't like the move names?

Yes. My move is very appropriate to what it does. Seems your's and Tables aren't. Maybe more..? I don't know.

Actually, I have a request for everyone: Say if your move names match your power. I don't want you to claim the name of the power, and of course not what it does. Just let me know if it's inline with what you would expect it to do.

I know, big time fishing from me. I'm willing to claim my move name if people think that this fishing would benefit scum more than it would to see if Jo's Rolecop claim is fine if it doesn't match the name.

mine match pretty well

[Dsell]

I would like to take a moment to remind people that I WOULD like to know if you targeted me last night. You can remain completely silent on every aspect of your role, it's simply a yes/no question.

No.

[Tables]

Losevote:Cayvie as promised. I don't see anything else I really feel is worth commenting on, other than the Joth thing, and I've already given my thoughts on that.

Here's the issue: Joth can prove quite easily his role is what it says it is, I'm okay with that. But what he can't prove is that he's town aligned. His role sounds very plausible as scum.

[Tables]

(Please note the above is not an accusation, just a statement of why I can't confidently just go, let's winvote Joth forever)

Thinking about it, winvoting scum is probably less damaging than losevoting town, right? In which case, probably I'd be okay winvoting Joth for a night. But not necessarily protecting him forever.

[Dsell]

I worry that his first stage power tells him the name of the powers they have available and his second stage power tells him the name and what those powers do. That would be a strong scum role. And since scum knows everyone's alignment anyway, he could fake claim cop pretty well.

Still, I think that for today at least, it's probably worth risking that. I'm just not sure when or how we figure out that he's scum. (I guess after a couple days if he doesn't find scum we can choose someone else to winvote for the day and hang him out to dry.)

[jotheonah]

I definitely understand the hesitation. It's my own fault for claiming too quick before we'd all thought the plan out all the way. If anyone thinks of a way for me to prove my alignment, by all means tell me.

In the meantime, we really should get back into the scumhunting. Axxle said something about analyzing the Jimmmmm wagon. That seems sensible.

[Dsell]

If anyone thinks of a way for me to prove my alignment, by all means tell me.

Cop scum. Even this isn't foolproof but it'll definitely make us want to keep you around for longer.

[Galzria]

If anyone thinks of a way for me to prove my alignment, by all means tell me.

Cop scum. Even this isn't foolproof but it'll definitely make us want to keep you around for longer.

+1

[jotheonah]

I'll try my best.

[Galzria]

Interesting.

Question: If moves have no bearing on Power (see: Leer), then it would potentially be beneficial for me (that is, give me a chance at catching scum), to know each players moves. At least, it would increase the possibility of me catching scum in a lie.

Eh, I don't know. My power is kind of on the Bastard side. It's really, really weak investigative, but does have the potential to find lies (it did not in my first iteration, but does at level 2 and level 3). Bleh.

I've no problem move claiming, and it could potentially help me find scum, but I won't press it if people think it's not a good idea. I'm just struggling to find a pro-town application of my power (it's not anti-town, mind you, just very touchy in nature).

[Insomniac]

I would move claim if it's what people think is best.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz

zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz

[Tables]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz

zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Zzz

Jorbles move name does not match what it does. He did not target Galz. He wants Joth to cop scum.

[jotheonah]

No. Well I might of, but if I did, it wasn't on purpose.

??

[Galzria]

No. Well I might of, but if I did, it wasn't on purpose.

??

I understood his meaning, even if I have no clue what he is/does. He was answering as truthfully as he can (most likely).

[Galzria]

Staaaal.

Alright, I'm going to claim move name (but not power). I don't think it can hurt, and it might just help down the road:

Deino: Bite

Zweilous: Dragon Rage

Hydreigon: Outrage

[Tables]

From the sound of things, Galz hurts people.

[Tables]

So what do people think of winvoting Joth tonight but not afterwards necessarily?

And who do people think is most scummy at the moment?

[jotheonah]

Should I re-cop Tables? Or is it better I try someone else entirely, in the interest of copping scum?

[Archetype]

No. Well I might of, but if I did, it wasn't on purpose.

??

I don't really want to explain why. It'll make sense why I said that if we ever mass claim.

Move claim:

Aron: Harden

Lairon: Iron Defense

Aggron: Metal Burst, Iron Defense

[Archetype]

Should I re-cop Tables? Or is it better I try someone else entirely, in the interest of copping scum?

Wait for everyone to claim first.

The other moves you know are Fury Swipes and Fling, right?

[Archetype]

No, wait. Don't tell us who you are going to Cop tonight. That'll put a target on their back for the scum night kill (if they aren't scum already). No, just tell us who you copped the following day and what their alignment is.

I think analyzing Eevee is a great idea.

[Tables]

No, wait. Don't tell us who you are going to Cop tonight. That'll put a target on their back for the scum night kill (if they aren't scum already). No, just tell us who you copped the following day and what their alignment is.

I think analyzing Eevee is a great idea.

Hmm... yeah, not announcing who you're checking sounds like a good idea. It's worth noting that your role doesn't even guarantee scum, I mean there aren't many roles that would be impossible to imagine scum having that town couldn't and vice versa. So all you can really do is give indications.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I'll Winvote: Joth for one night at least. I've as much reason to disbelieve him as I do to believe him, so why not.

I'm still worried that he's a Move-Cop / Power-Cop / All-Powers-Cop for scum, and so "faking" town results will be easy for him, but I don't see much that can be done about it right now. Joth: Find scum.

Actually, there is a way.... But this is fine for now.

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

winvote: archetype
winvote: jotheonah

[Archetype]

I don't understand Chicken Code, but I see my name mentioned. Can anyone translate?

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.3
LoseVote
cayvie (2): Tables, Jorbles
Dsell (1): cayvie

Not voting (7): Archetype, Axxle, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888

WinVote
Galzria (1): Tables
{L-1} jotheonah (5): Dsell, jotheonah, Jorbles, cayvie, Galzria

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Robz888

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Dsell]

Are we doing a mass move-claim? Who is asking for that? Why?

[Tables]

I don't understand Chicken Code, but I see my name mentioned. Can anyone translate?

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz =5
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz =10
zzz zzz zzz =3

He's pointing to a specific post here. Reading down the lines, it's 503 (10 becomes 0). The next one is 505. So he's saying he likes your posts/agrees with them.

[Tables]

Unwinvote. Not because I dislike Galz but because, I'll be winvoting Joth eventually. Quickly checked the rules, I strongly want to suggest the following: As best I can tell, once the losevote is locked, the day will not end if the winvote isn't AND the lose target will not die until that time. That means, we can let that person fully expound their thoughts and share any information they have before they're lynched. We can do this in theory normally, but a lot of time even when they're basically told outright they're getting killed, the lynch target will still just argue for their own innocence. When their death is 100% guaranteed, they can simply share all information.

For this reason, I suggest we try to lock losevote before winvote.

[Archetype]

That sounds good. Unwinvote.

But who to lose vote? I'm slightly suspicious of Dsell, and a little bit of cayvie, and a null read on everyone else. Leaning a bit more town on Tables though.

[Archetype]

I don't understand Chicken Code, but I see my name mentioned. Can anyone translate?

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz =5
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz =10
zzz zzz zzz =3

He's pointing to a specific post here. Reading down the lines, it's 503 (10 becomes 0). The next one is 505. So he's saying he likes your posts/agrees with them.

*quickly checks 505* Ok, thanks for translating.

Jorbles, will this 'post restriction' ever go away?

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz

Winvote: Jorbles

[Galzria]

It goes away if he levels up. Hum.

[Galzria]

It goes away if he levels up. Hum.

Or at least, he THINKS it does. Three "zzz"'s usually means maybe.

[Archetype]

But Snorlax can't evolve.

[Archetype]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

[Galzria]

Well, he doesn't "evolve" - but he's not immune to soaking up experience when others die (he's included in the random roll), so it's not impossible that the Mods would've given him something to "weaken" the fact that he can't "evolve", but still allow him to "gain" something if he "levels up".

[Archetype]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

And I don't think we can spare the Winvoting. As soon as we stop winvoting jo, he'll be killed (as long as he isn't scum).

[Archetype]

Well, he doesn't "evolve" - but he's not immune to soaking up experience when others die (he's included in the random roll), so it's not impossible that the Mods would've given him something to "weaken" the fact that he can't "evolve", but still allow him to "gain" something if he "levels up".

Oh ok. That makes more sense. Hopefully some experience gets sent to him so that he can communicate normally.

[Galzria]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

And I don't think we can spare the Winvoting. As soon as we stop winvoting jo, he'll be killed (as long as he isn't scum).

I will NOT support continuously Winvoting Joth. If he's scum, that end-games town. The best bet is to get him up to what he claims is Alignment Investigation, and then set him free. If he's scum, he won't be NK'd, and that solves our problem. If he's NOT scum, then scum will have to choose between NK'ing him (in which case any results he posts before then are confirmed true), OR trying to frame him by NOT killing him - but this risks Joth investigating them.

[Archetype]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

And I don't think we can spare the Winvoting. As soon as we stop winvoting jo, he'll be killed (as long as he isn't scum).

I will NOT support continuously Winvoting Joth. If he's scum, that end-games town. The best bet is to get him up to what he claims is Alignment Investigation, and then set him free. If he's scum, he won't be NK'd, and that solves our problem. If he's NOT scum, then scum will have to choose between NK'ing him (in which case any results he posts before then are confirmed true), OR trying to frame him by NOT killing him - but this risks Joth investigating them.

Oh yeah, I guess he needs only one more stage before he can start investigating. Alright, fair enough.

But what if he finds scum N1?

[Galzria]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

And I don't think we can spare the Winvoting. As soon as we stop winvoting jo, he'll be killed (as long as he isn't scum).

I will NOT support continuously Winvoting Joth. If he's scum, that end-games town. The best bet is to get him up to what he claims is Alignment Investigation, and then set him free. If he's scum, he won't be NK'd, and that solves our problem. If he's NOT scum, then scum will have to choose between NK'ing him (in which case any results he posts before then are confirmed true), OR trying to frame him by NOT killing him - but this risks Joth investigating them.

Oh yeah, I guess he needs only one more stage before he can start investigating. Alright, fair enough.

But what if he finds scum N1?

Then it may be worth considering Winvoting him some more. He COULD be bussing for major Town Cred - but it's less likely with one "Mafia" (whatever they're called this game) dead already.

[Tables]

What makes you think he'll be so effective at finding scum?

What if he finds something like this (this is totally made up BTW):

Growl: The target cannot take any actions during the night
Cute Charm: In addition to not taking any actions, your target has a 50% chance of being unable to take actions the next turn

Obviously it's a roleblocker, but it could very easily be a scum or town role. My role looks pretty town, but it would be very plausible as a scum role, and pretty much all roles are (yes, even doctors can be scum roles). Honestly, I don't think killing Joth will be a priority for scum.

[Archetype]

I'm starting to think this restriction is faked, and a cheap attempt to evolve.

And I don't think we can spare the Winvoting. As soon as we stop winvoting jo, he'll be killed (as long as he isn't scum).

I will NOT support continuously Winvoting Joth. If he's scum, that end-games town. The best bet is to get him up to what he claims is Alignment Investigation, and then set him free. If he's scum, he won't be NK'd, and that solves our problem. If he's NOT scum, then scum will have to choose between NK'ing him (in which case any results he posts before then are confirmed true), OR trying to frame him by NOT killing him - but this risks Joth investigating them.

Oh yeah, I guess he needs only one more stage before he can start investigating. Alright, fair enough.

But what if he finds scum N1?

Then it may be worth considering Winvoting him some more. He COULD be bussing for major Town Cred - but it's less likely with one "Mafia" (whatever they're called this game) dead already.

I think it would still be good to get another Traitor (I think that's what they're called) eliminated. We could always keep the possibility of bussing in the back of our minds.

[Archetype]

What makes you think he'll be so effective at finding scum?

What if he finds something like this (this is totally made up BTW):

Growl: The target cannot take any actions during the night
Cute Charm: In addition to not taking any actions, your target has a 50% chance of being unable to take actions the next turn

Obviously it's a roleblocker, but it could very easily be a scum or town role. My role looks pretty town, but it would be very plausible as a scum role, and pretty much all roles are (yes, even doctors can be scum roles). Honestly, I don't think killing Joth will be a priority for scum.

His evolution is an Alignment Cop, not a Role Cop. He's right now a Role Cop (correct me if I'm wrong).

[jotheonah]

The Jimmmmm wagon, analyzed by Jotheonah:

ash suggests lynching Jimmmmm to eliminate his power, which is a potential wrench in FTC. ashersky was apparently already voting for Jimmmm, not sure why

cayvie votes Jimmmmm for that reason

Archetype votes Jimmmmm for that reason

Galz makes a long post starting with that reason, but also pointing out that Jimmmmm had made very few contributions and detailing how his power use was scummy.

Jorbles posts in Z-speak a post that ends with losevoting Robz, but maybe was supposed to be a Jimmmm vote?

I vote Jimmmmm, sheeping Galz.

Jimmmm shows up and defends himself

Archetype unvotes, swayed by Jimmmm's defense

Dsell votes for Jimmmmm, sheeping Galz

Archetype revotes, because "Gladiator seems more like a scum role anyway" (despite a recent prolonged discussion about scummy roles possibly not being a scum tell this game)

ash votes Jimmmmmm (again?) because he thinks it will enable a foolproof FTC

That's the hammer. It looks like Robz voted Jimmmmm sometime before, maybe for lurking. He was on before it all started anyway.

TBH, the scummiest people on that wagon, to my eye, are Dsell, myself, and ARchetype, with an honorable mention to cayvie, who was apparently ok with lynching someone she admittedly didn't think was scum. Archetype's jumpy on-off-again is either jumpy town or scum hedging. Dsell and I both sheeped Galz in the safe middle of the wagon without contributing much of our own. Of course, everyone should look back at Galz's case itself and decide for themselves if they think it's sincere. He was definitely the one who made the lynch take off.

[jotheonah]

What makes you think he'll be so effective at finding scum?

What if he finds something like this (this is totally made up BTW):

Growl: The target cannot take any actions during the night
Cute Charm: In addition to not taking any actions, your target has a 50% chance of being unable to take actions the next turn

Obviously it's a roleblocker, but it could very easily be a scum or town role. My role looks pretty town, but it would be very plausible as a scum role, and pretty much all roles are (yes, even doctors can be scum roles). Honestly, I don't think killing Joth will be a priority for scum.

His evolution is an Alignment Cop, not a Role Cop. He's right now a Role Cop (correct me if I'm wrong).

that's correct. I'll become a real cop if I evolve.

[Tables]

Ah right. For some reason I thought he learnt the move effects, not role cop.

[Galzria]

Ah right. For some reason I thought he learnt the move effects, not role cop.

That's my concern if he's scum. If he's town as he claims, he becomes an Alignment Cop.

[jotheonah]

Ok, I layed out the Jimmmmm wagon nice and pretty. What conclusions do people draw from it?

I'm sort of leaning toward it being mostly a town wagon on town.

[Galzria]

Can we get a postcount? Does anybody remember Robz D1 coming in and voting Jimmm for what appeared to be LALL, but he never explained the vote? At the time, Robz took some heat over it, because he was lurking himself. Jimm went on to be lynched. What's Robz post count this game, and this DAY?

((Not derailing you Joth, I do think that looking at that wagon is important. It's just that reading what you wrote there reminded me that Robz IS in this game... and yet I honestly could not have told you so.))

[jotheonah]

No, you're right Galz. We almost lynched Robz yesterday.

But there is an awful lot of WIFOM about would scum!Robz be so bold as to lurk this hard?

I think he probably would, honeslty.

[Galzria]

No, you're right Galz. We almost lynched Robz yesterday.

But there is an awful lot of WIFOM about would scum!Robz be so bold as to lurk this hard?

I think he probably would, honeslty.

Here's a different question: Why would Town!Robz play this way? It's not like he hasn't been active in his other games... M-XVI and Arcana-II both. It's just.... yeah.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

zzz

Winvote: jotheonah

[Archetype]

Can we get a postcount? Does anybody remember Robz D1 coming in and voting Jimmm for what appeared to be LALL, but he never explained the vote? At the time, Robz took some heat over it, because he was lurking himself. Jimm went on to be lynched. What's Robz post count this game, and this DAY?

((Not derailing you Joth, I do think that looking at that wagon is important. It's just that reading what you wrote there reminded me that Robz IS in this game... and yet I honestly could not have told you so.))

I'd be ok with a Robz lynch, purely because of his lurking. But I always think he's scum, so I don't know if he would be the right lynch for today.

I think I'd be more comfortable with a cayvie lynch though. She's been giving me a slightly bad vibe this game, and I haven't seen her post much today.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.4
LoseVote
cayvie (2): Jorbles, Tables
Dsell (1): cayvie

Not voting (7): Archetype, Axxle, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888

WinVote
{L-1} jotheonah (5): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles

Not voting (5): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Robz888, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Archetype]

Oh. cayvie already has 2 votes.


We're holding off on Winvoting jo, right?

[jotheonah]

Can someone on the cayvie wagon cobble together a better case than "bad vibe"? There must be something there if she has two votes on her, but I can't quite think what it would be.

I mean, there was that whole "I want to lynch Jimmmmm even though I don't have a strong sense he's scum" thing.

[Archetype]

The game's fairly small, so I'm starting to re-read cayvie now (using 'Print' and Ctrl + F).


~Day 1~

She asks a few setup questions NULL

The Jorbles having/faking a post restriction comes up, and there's an exchange between scum!Eevee and her:

Cayvie: "ok ok what's going on now "

next post is Eevee saying, "loservote: cayvie just a gut feeling, reminds me of myself as scum in III. why are you so lost cayvie? "

Cayvie: "i lost internet access, just got it back!"

Cayvie says: "man, eevee, zingin me all over the place this game

loser-vote YOU " Even though Eevee has only 'zinged' her once

Eevee: "Posting just to say 'what' when nothing confusing has happened is just.. untownlike?"

Cayvie:
"yeah, you're full of it.

losevote: eevee"

They bicker and disagree a bit more, but the above stuck out a bit more than the rest. TOWNISH (or extremely clever bussing)

Cayvie wants to losevote Captain_Frisk because he wants to switch out anyway. NULL

When ashersky replaces in, cayvie unvotes saying "unlosevote don't want Ashersky to think i'm scummy!" SCUMMY

Losevotes Robz NULL

cayvie losevotes Jimmmmm (at the time, NULL, now SCUMMY[but I did it too, so I can't really judge])

~Day 2~

Questions my/asher's Cop claiming plan (SCUMMY in my eyes, probably NULL in everyone else's)

Says that Tables is going to be "come out gunning for me whatever i say" after she disagrees with him NULL

Losevotes  Dsell NULL

Winvotes jotheonah TOWN

Says she likes kittens, didn't target Galzria last night, and that her move names match their effect fairly well TOWN


That's it.

I have no idea why I became suspicious of cayvie. I mean she hasn't posted that much, but still more than Axxle and Insomniac. I think cayvie is Town, or that thing with Eevee was a very complicated bus. I don't think this is likely, as neither of them are the bussing type.

So right now I think the most suspicious are Robz and Dsell. More so Robz than Dsell.

For:

A: The wagon on him that suddenly disappeared Day 1

B: Some buddying between him and Eevee (something I noticed as I read back)

C: Extreme Lurking

I'm actually going to Losevote: Robz until he stops gets in here and stops lurking.

[Archetype]

Forgot to bold the 'Robz' in 'Losevote: Robz' so...

Losevote: Robz

[Archetype]

Actually, UnLosevote.

[Dsell]

Dsell and I both sheeped Galz in the safe middle of the wagon without contributing much of our own. Of course, everyone should look back at Galz's case itself and decide for themselves if they think it's sincere. He was definitely the one who made the lynch take off.

I haven't looked back but I feel like I had more to contribute to the lynch than just sheeping Galz...I think I was advocating a Jimmmmm or Robz lynch most of the day.

[Axxle]

Sorry, somewhat vla all week.

I'll save a copy of the print page and go through it during my flight tomorrow.

[Tables]

At first, the thing I found suspicious about Cayvie was his interactions with Eevee, but now, I'm much more concerned about how he responded to my accusations. He was unable to offer a single defence, he twisted my words at least once and got extremely defensive when I pointed it out, yet did exactly the same thing to DSell AND lose voted him on post 445. All of that just reeks of annoyed scum play. It's much easier for me to imagine scum making those blunders than town, because of the knowledge of whose town and not (and thus knowledge of who they want killed or not).

[jotheonah]

What jumps out at me was that day 1, cayvie suggests lunching frisk rather than replacing him, then he suggests lynching Jimmmmm soley for having an inconvenient power. Cayvie seems much more to be hunting an agreeable lynch than hunting scum. I will Vote: Cayvie

[jotheonah]

That is, losevote: cayvie

[Tables]

Also looking through my notes, I have nothing for either Robz OR Insomniac. I think Galz mentioned this, but still... that's either no posts or nothing I thought was especially noteworthy.

Also Joth, lunching Frisk eh?

[Robz888]

Also looking through my notes, I have nothing for either Robz OR Insomniac. I think Galz mentioned this, but still... that's either no posts or nothing I thought was especially noteworthy.

Also Joth, lunching Frisk eh?

Sorry for lurking! I don't know why, this game overwhelms me for some reason. I follow, but I don't process what is happening.

I don't know what Insomniac's excuse is. Losevote: Insomniac

[Tables]

Pot, Kettle, Black.

[jotheonah]

RObz's game plan:

Step 1: Lurk
Step 2: When called out, find the next biggest lurker, accuse them of lurking, and vote for them
Step 3: Profit

[Tables]

Hey Robz! There's only like 500 posts, go do some rereading, find some people suspicious.

Incidentally I've done a little thinking, and... I'm surprised there wasn't a (normal) cop claim. Not because I'm surprised town doesn't have one, but because I'd expected mafia to fakeclaim it. But now I've thought about it, eh, maybe that wouldn't have been optimal anyway. I was kinda expecting that to happen, them to come out with a claim against me, and then act like something had evidently gone wrong, such as framer or the like when I flipped town. Or they would just be counterclaimed, and left with little evidence on my loyalty and no way of discerning who was truthful. Although perhaps losing Eevee made that a bad plan, because going 1 for 1 with the cop is usually a decent trade, but if they only have say 2 remaining members, losing a second would be extremely risky. They might well have 3 left though, I don't know.

So... yeah, I realise this post hasn't said much, but that was kinda what I was thinking yesterday and today with the winvoting pattern on me.

[Robz888]

Hey Tables! I've read them. I just don't have specific suspicions, except general suspicions against lurkers (of which, yes, I am one).

[Tables]

Well, why not share your general thoughts? Do you agree with winvoting Joth today? Who looks town to you? More contribution means more information for town to work with.

[Robz888]

I agree with winvoting Jotheonah. Winvote: Jotheonah

I think Insomniac is highly suspicious for being so inactive (but as you said, "Pot, Kettle, Black").

Archetype reads town to me for his recent behavior toward me. It's very much how town Archetype acts. Certainty in his reads, and then he immediately changes them.

[Tables]

Sigh.

Losevote: Robz for hammering.

[Dsell]

Robz, were you reading? We had a plan, man.

[Robz888]

Well, why not share your general thoughts? Do you agree with winvoting Joth today? Who looks town to you? More contribution means more information for town to work with.

I took this to mean Tables wanted me to winvote Joth.

[Tables]

Hmm... I wasn't actually going to stick my losevote there, but... that sounds like very tenuous reasoning. I'm beginning to agree with people saying your play doesn't seem like the usual town Robz play.

[Robz888]

Hmm... I wasn't actually going to stick my losevote there, but... that sounds like very tenuous reasoning. I'm beginning to agree with people saying your play doesn't seem like the usual town Robz play.

Yeah, I've been fairly careless and unhelpful, sorry. I think this makes me obviously not scum--check my behavior in past role madness games, if you're curious--but it doesn't do much good to point this out (self-meta and all that).

[Archetype]

If you said you reread, then why did you hammer jo, Robz? I thought the plan was we were going to wait until we choose a losevote target.

Im not going to vote Robz for that, but still. :-/

[Robz888]

If you said you reread, then why did you hammer jo, Robz? I thought the plan was we were going to wait until we choose a losevote target.

Im not going to vote Robz for that, but still. :-/

A) I didn't re-read. I read in the first place. I did forget about that plan, though.
B) Didn't realize Jo was at L-1.
C) Was trying to appease Tables, our leader.

[Tables]

Hmm... I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this. I'm far from convinced either way on Robz, but that 'obviously not scum' comment feels... wrong to me. That to me is akin to you claiming you've just proved your innocence, which is FAR from what I feel.

I never claimed to be, nor has anyone else, claimed that I'm a leader in any way. But I'm also not sure what to make of that comment.

[shraeye]

Winner Locked

Vote Count 2.5
LoseVote
cayvie (2): Jorbles, jotheonah
Dsell (1): cayvie
Insomniac (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Tables

Not voting (5): Archetype, Axxle, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[cayvie]

i think careless Robz is a null-tell; i think it was MVIII where he (legitimately) accidentally hammered someone as scum?

[cayvie]

What jumps out at me was that day 1, cayvie suggests lunching frisk rather than replacing him, then he suggests lynching Jimmmmm soley for having an inconvenient power. Cayvie seems much more to be hunting an agreeable lynch than hunting scum. I will Vote: Cayvie

hey, i also attacked Eevee pretty hard

[Galzria]

i think careless Robz is a null-tell; i think it was MVIII where he (legitimately) accidentally hammered someone as scum?

..... He was scum in M-VIII, with CF and O. And yes, he was careless and hammered without knowing.

[cayvie]

i think careless Robz is a null-tell; i think it was MVIII where he (legitimately) accidentally hammered someone as scum?

..... He was scum in M-VIII, with CF and O. And yes, he was careless and hammered without knowing.

that's my point

robz was saying that careless robz was a town-tell

[cayvie]

Yeah, I've been fairly careless and unhelpful, sorry. I think this makes me obviously not scum--check my behavior in past role madness games, if you're curious--but it doesn't do much good to point this out (self-meta and all that).

[jotheonah]

Ok, we have about a week and a lot of quiet people. Cayvie and Robz have been proposed as lynches. Anyone want to weigh in?

[cayvie]

Ok, we have about a week and a lot of quiet people. Cayvie and Robz have been proposed as lynches. Anyone want to weigh in?

Dsell has also been proposed

[jotheonah]

Remind me what that case is about?

[cayvie]

I dunno what to say about the Tables/Cayvie conflict. I haven't found either of them particularly scummy and I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other. I still would guess that Tables is town (although it's looking less and less likely that we have a cop (Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).


I'm debating whether to reveal my night action. Like I mentioned before, it's not exactly very pro-town, though it could be put to good use in the right situation. I think I'll remain cryptic about it for a while and if something comes up where I really really have to reveal, I will. I'm definitely not begging for winvotes though. On that note, do we want to winvote Tables again? Obviously if we have a cop and they are yet to reveal, they could be a good target.

Another thing, do we want Tables to claim? If we winvote him, he'll be at his final stage, and I'd like to know whether it's even something we want around. If he is some great PR (barring a cop claim or something), we'll protect him anyway, so it's not as if we're at risk of him getting NK'd.

okay, now i've slept.

losevote: Dsell

this "come in as the voice of reason in a conflict" attitude is very similar to how he behaved as scum early in Domafia. (check this page)

ringing particularly false is the bit where he's like "I don't think either of their arguments are very damning on the other."

I haven't actually made any arguments against Tables!

this is basically it

[cayvie]

I thought Dsell was acting very, very similarly to how he did in Domafia.

[Archetype]

I'd be willing to lynch Dsell, more so than cayvie or Robz.

[Dsell]

I don't know how to respond to that argument except by saying that it's just not the case here. I may or may not be acting like I did in Domafia, I really don't know, but either way I am still town (a companion). I feel like this type of argument really often just comes to nothing, and it sucks because I can't give you any better defense than that.

[Axxle]

Request replacement

Sorry, haven't been able to get into this game.

[Archetype]

Request replacement

Sorry, haven't been able to get into this game.

[TheMunch]

Request replacement

Sorry, haven't been able to get into this game.

I'm going to look into this as soon as possible.  I think I might have a replacement lined up but I would like to talk to Shraeye first.

[Robz888]

Case on Dsell looks kind of solid.

[Dsell]

Blah.

[Archetype]

Who do you suggest we lynch, Dsell?

[Dsell]

Who do you suggest we lynch, Dsell?

Robz? Axxle, maybe? But apparently there's something behind his lurking since he's seeking replacement. I should probably reread, I don't remember a whole lot from this game.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: Dsell
zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: cayvie
zzz

[cayvie]

screw it.

i think jorbles is faking.

losevote: jorbles.

[Tables]

I'm happy to believe Jorbles genuinely has a restriction or not, but I'd like to know why you think he's faking it. Also, while I realise that Jorbles faking his restriction would be a big scumtell, but we can still scumhunt him just like anyone else, although I guess it's hard for him to say scummy things.

[jotheonah]

Robz, what about the Dsell case looks solid to you?

[cayvie]

I'm happy to believe Jorbles genuinely has a restriction or not, but I'd like to know why you think he's faking it. Also, while I realise that Jorbles faking his restriction would be a big scumtell, but we can still scumhunt him just like anyone else, although I guess it's hard for him to say scummy things.

i think he's faking it because this isn't a bastard game.

[Robz888]

Robz, what about the Dsell case looks solid to you?

Dsell was acting like he did Day 1 of Domafia, when you and I pegged him as scum.

I mean, sort of like that. Not exactly.

[Galzria]

Man, I don't understand why this game is so difficult to move.

Is it the double voting system? I doubt it. We've locked our winvote quickly both days so it's simply a question of who to lynch.

I think I've list any moral high ground I might've had to pursue a Robz lynch over LALL, but he's still my top scum pick. Between his complete apathy towards this game (which, while many of us have shown recently, at least most of us have, at one time or another given it an honest try), his vote on Jimmm without explanation way back in D1 (remember, it was eventually discovered that he was following Ashersky's case for LALL - which was as Pot, Kettle, Black as this post is. But he didn't even bother to explain), his vote on Insomniac today (over, ha! LALL), and finally his hammer vote on Joth when we weren't ready... And I'm more convinced he's scum than any of us other hardcore lurker extraordinaires.

So... Yeah. LoseVote: Robz888

[Galzria]

List = lost

[jotheonah]

I'm still more sold on cayvie than Robz.

We have four days. Everyone who's playing this game, give us some reads, something.

[Robz888]

Man, I don't understand why this game is so difficult to move.

Is it the double voting system? I doubt it. We've locked our winvote quickly both days so it's simply a question of who to lynch.

I think I've list any moral high ground I might've had to pursue a Robz lynch over LALL, but he's still my top scum pick. Between his complete apathy towards this game (which, while many of us have shown recently, at least most of us have, at one time or another given it an honest try), his vote on Jimmm without explanation way back in D1 (remember, it was eventually discovered that he was following Ashersky's case for LALL - which was as Pot, Kettle, Black as this post is. But he didn't even bother to explain), his vote on Insomniac today (over, ha! LALL), and finally his hammer vote on Joth when we weren't ready... And I'm more convinced he's scum than any of us other hardcore lurker extraordinaires.

So... Yeah. LoseVote: Robz888

No no Galz. My Jimm vote was explained. I voted him for lurking. Yes, I was lurking too. Yes it was hypocritical. I never said it wasn't. But it wasn't baseless. I was trying to get back in the game, so I voted somebody for lurking.

[cayvie]

Man, I don't understand why this game is so difficult to move.

Is it the double voting system? I doubt it. We've locked our winvote quickly both days so it's simply a question of who to lynch.

I think I've list any moral high ground I might've had to pursue a Robz lynch over LALL, but he's still my top scum pick. Between his complete apathy towards this game (which, while many of us have shown recently, at least most of us have, at one time or another given it an honest try), his vote on Jimmm without explanation way back in D1 (remember, it was eventually discovered that he was following Ashersky's case for LALL - which was as Pot, Kettle, Black as this post is. But he didn't even bother to explain), his vote on Insomniac today (over, ha! LALL), and finally his hammer vote on Joth when we weren't ready... And I'm more convinced he's scum than any of us other hardcore lurker extraordinaires.

So... Yeah. LoseVote: Robz888

man, i'm tempted to join you just to get a wagon going, but i feel like that's not really a useful thing to be doing when it's not day 1.

[Dsell]

I have just been insanely busy recently, and even though I've still been on f.ds, I've been very distracted. I'll be back at school tomorrow and should have lots of time to do things like catch up on this game, open up lolcats, and things like that. But I just can't before then. Although I did just go back and do reread of a small little section, I don't have time to finish, it'll have to wait. FWIW, I have given some thoughts previously and obviously not a ton has changed.

[Tables]

I'm beginning to think Cayvie is just not good at defending himself, rather than actually being scummy. And Robz play here has been so far from what I remember it being, when he was town. On the other hand his play has been pretty consistently sloppy, and I don't really know what to make of that... on the one hand it seems like a useful scum ploy type play, but on the other hand I think he'd be more careful if this wasn't intentionally sloppy.

As a gentle reminder to everyone, we want to lynch scum, not bad play. Sometimes bad play can be a towntell, and I'm beginning to think both of my suspects might have been wrong here.

I don't think Jorbles is faking. His post restriction was one that he could easily use, plus it fits the character. Whether he's actually town or not, well that's a different matter.

[jotheonah]

I feel like scum is probably trying to lurk us into a plurality losevote at this point. Is that what happens if we don't reach a consensus?

Certainly the path of least resistance, and they don't have to go on the record with any bad reads.

[Robz888]

I'm beginning to think Cayvie is just not good at defending himself, rather than actually being scummy. And Robz play here has been so far from what I remember it being, when he was town. On the other hand his play has been pretty consistently sloppy, and I don't really know what to make of that... on the one hand it seems like a useful scum ploy type play, but on the other hand I think he'd be more careful if this wasn't intentionally sloppy.

Were you in any other role madness games? Really, I do usually lurk in them in the early days. I've gone whole days without posting in various eHalc games. I barely played Ozle's game until we were down to 6 people left.

[Tables]

Yeah, I haven't played many RMMs, I actually don't really like Mafia as much as other forum games any more.

[Tables]

I feel like scum is probably trying to lurk us into a plurality losevote at this point. Is that what happens if we don't reach a consensus?

Certainly the path of least resistance, and they don't have to go on the record with any bad reads.

This is a possibility.

[Tables]

Looking over my notes, I'm actually inclined to join the DSell wagon. As best as my notes tell me, he's been mostly joining other people's ideas/wagons, not providing new wagons and the like (of course this is just my notes).

e.g. Joining the Robz wagon (250, started 245)
Willingness to join the Jim wagon (302)
Agreeing with the arguments Galz made to vote Jim (390, Galz: 353)

Day 2 is slightly better, he weighed in on the me/Cayvie argument, but then there's the thing Cayvie pointed out.

In my experience, scum are much happier to bandwagon ideas than contribute ones of their own. It feels less suspicious when you do it, and means you don't have to provide an argument you know is incorrect to start a bandwagon elsewhere and risk it backfiring.

I'll stick on a LoseVote: DSell for now. Can we get a quick vote count?

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.6
LoseVote
cayvie (2): jotheonah, Jorbles
Insomniac (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Dsell, Insomniac

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Tables]

Huh, I was sure more people were losevoting DSell. Whatever, I know people have mentioned they might want to.

[Archetype]

Huh, I was sure more people were losevoting DSell. Whatever, I know people have mentioned they might want to.

Yeah I've been thinking about it. I'd prefer it over cayvie or Robz.

Losevote: Dsell

[Dsell]

Blah, I know I've been lurky, but the case against me is junk. I'm not the same here, I'm a companion.

This game is next on my list to reread and make a response.

[Jorbles]

Losevote: Tables
Losevote: jotheonah
Losevote: Galzria
Losevote: Jorbles
Losevote: Archetype
zzz zzz

Losevote: Axxle
Losevote: Dsell
Losevote: Insomniac
Losevote: Robz888
zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: cayvie
zzz

[Archetype]

I'm starting to learn Chicken Code, and I think these are reads.

Tables, jothenah, Galzria, Jorbles, Archetype = Town

Axxle, Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888 = Maybe Town

Cayvie = scum

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jorbles.

[Dsell]

I'm starting to learn Chicken Code, and I think these are reads.

Tables, jothenah, Galzria, Jorbles, Archetype = Town

Axxle, Dsell, Insomniac, Robz888 = Maybe Town

Cayvie = scum

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jorbles.

Basically, but I think the middle reads are maybe scum (or maybe ok lynches) rather than maybe town.

[Dsell]

I just reread Robz and there is just nothing there. I don't actually remember his specific behavior day 1 of other Role Madness games, but it is day 2 now. Again, this is a pot and kettle thing, but he has been really lurky. Nothing to actually pique my suspicion aside from the general lurking though.

Next I'm going to go back and look at Eevee's interactions, but I'm also going to dinner at some point.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz

zzz

[Tables]

Okay, Jorbles, which post(s) of Cayvie's make you find him most scummy?

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

[Tables]

Cayvie, post 423:

Stuff

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

Well it can't be 100% accurate, but we'll see what happens. I want you to post your reasons now. I find you suspicious based on your day 1 play, and you immediately (and for I think the first time all game) suddenly find me scummy. At the first point I could actually be voted for. That's... pretty suspicious, to say the least.

I think the cop claiming is probably the best course of action, BUT I would like my question above answered first. Although having said that this game is not going to be that long, so... eh.

yeah alright

i attack eevee day 1

eevee turns out to be scum

clearly i'm scum, you figured it out

Post 569:

What jumps out at me was that day 1, cayvie suggests lunching frisk rather than replacing him, then he suggests lynching Jimmmmm soley for having an inconvenient power. Cayvie seems much more to be hunting an agreeable lynch than hunting scum. I will Vote: Cayvie

hey, i also attacked Eevee pretty hard

Just for ease of reference. Now thinking about these, putting them into context.

[Archetype]

Hmm, ok Jorbles. I see what you mean. cayvie is using the excuse of "Well I did go after Eevee pretty hard!" to justify her Towniness. This is pretty strange, but not enough for me to start a wagon on her. I'm actually going to Unvote: Dsell while I'm here. I wanted him to participate more, and here he is. We're trying to lynch scum, not bad play.

[Tables]

Hm... just to check, is it that (zzz) Cayvie was overly reliant on having voted scum the previous day?
Or that (zzz zzz) Cayvie's insistence on voting of Eevee now makes it look like a bus to you?
Or (zzz zzz zzz) Something completely different?

PPE: Archetype's kinda just given an answer, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[Dsell]

We're trying to lynch scum, not bad play.

Please explain to me how I'm playing badly.

[Tables]

Yeah, Archetype, I'm a little confused as well. I don't think DSell is playing badly. I just think some of the things he's doing look a little more scummy than those other people are doing.

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz

[Archetype]

We're trying to lynch scum, not bad play.

Please explain to me how I'm playing badly.

I meant you being lurky-ish.

[Archetype]

Bad play was probably the wrong word, you actually have been playing well, just haven't been here as much.

[Dsell]

Bad play was probably the wrong word, you actually have been playing well, just haven't been here as much.

Ironically, we have the exact same number of posts, 56. (Well, I have 57 now.)

[Archetype]

Bad play was probably the wrong word, you actually have been playing well, just haven't been here as much.

Ironically, we have the exact same number of posts, 56. (Well, I have 57 now.)

Really? Wow. I thought you were one of the few who didn't post that much.

Nevermind. Carry on.

[Tables]

Okay so we only have about 3 more days to work out who to lynch, and of course we must lynch at this point.

[Robz888]

I only see posts from Archetype, Tables, and Dsell recently. Who else is playing, but non contributing?

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: Axxle
Losevote: Insomniac




Losevote: cayvie

[Archetype]

Oh yeah, Jorbles.

It seems the 3 talked about lynches are cayvie, Dsell, and Robz.

Don't really feel like cayvie is scum, so a no-go for me.

Robz could possibly be scum, but I don't think so. I always think he's scum anyway.

Out of the 3, Dsell is the one I'm leaning towards. But he has been a bit more active, which is good.

--

So between Dsell in Robz, but I've talked myself into Robz. I do think those lurkers should get in here.

[Robz888]

Oh yeah, Jorbles.

It seems the 3 talked about lynches are cayvie, Dsell, and Robz.

Don't really feel like cayvie is scum, so a no-go for me.

Robz could possibly be scum, but I don't think so. I always think he's scum anyway.

Out of the 3, Dsell is the one I'm leaning towards. But he has been a bit more active, which is good.

--

So between Dsell in Robz, but I've talked myself into Robz. I do think those lurkers should get in here.

?

[Archetype]

Oh yeah, Jorbles.

It seems the 3 talked about lynches are cayvie, Dsell, and Robz.

Don't really feel like cayvie is scum, so a no-go for me.

Robz could possibly be scum, but I don't think so. I always think he's scum anyway.

Out of the 3, Dsell is the one I'm leaning towards. But he has been a bit more active, which is good.

--

So between Dsell in Robz, but I've talked myself into Robz. I do think those lurkers should get in here.

?

Out of the 3 of you {Cayvie, Robz, Dsell} I'm more likely to vote for you, Robz, then Dsell, then cayvie. But probably not cayvie.

[TheMunch]

Voltgloss has subbed in for Axxle

[Voltgloss]

Unlosevote

I gots some rereadin' to do.  I've been semi-following along, so hopefully shouldn't take too long.

[Voltgloss]

I think the below is right.  Someone holler if I've made any errors.  I did this mainly for myself, to get a handle on Day 1.  Conftown votes in green, confscum votes in red.

Day 1 Winvotes:

3 - Axxle winvotes Axxle (1)
5 - Galz winvotes Galz (1)
15 - Tables winvotes Tables (1)
16 - Jorbles winvotes Jorbles (1)
44 - Jimmmmm winvotes Jimmmmm (1)
60 - Eevee winvotes Tables (2)
65 - Frisk winvotes Frisk (1)
81 - Dsell winvotes Eevee (1)
82 - Axxle winvotes Tables (3), unvotes Axxle (0)
85 - Galz winvotes Insom (1), unvotes Galz (0)
91 - Insom winvotes Tables (4)
93 - joth winvotes Insom (2)
101 - Jorbles winvotes Tables (5), unvotes Jorbles (0)
118 - Arch winvotes Tables (6)
127 - Galz winvotes Tables [7]
129 - Eevee tries to winvote Galz but winvote is locked

Day 1 Losevotes:

3 - Axxle votes Arch (1)
5 - Galz votes Axxle (1)
14 - Jorbles votes Axxle (2)
36 - Tables votes Eevee (1)
44 - Jimmmmm votes Eevee (2)
53 - Axxle votes Jorbles (1), unvotes Arch (0)
57 - Tables unvotes Eevee (1)
61 - Tables votes Robz (1)
65 - Frisk votes cayvie (1)
85 - Galz votes joth (1), unvotes Axxle (1)
87 - joth votes Galz (1)
91 - Insom votes Frisk (1)
113 - Tables votes Jorbles (2), unvotes Robz (0)
117 - Tables unvotes Jorbles (1)
148 - Eevee votes cayvie (2)
153 - cayvie votes Eevee (2)
168 - Tables votes Eevee (3)
173 - Tables unvotes Eevee (2)
183 - Dsell votes Axxle (2)
202 - cayvie votes Frisk (2), unvotes Eevee (1)
207 - Tables votes cayvie (3)
238 - Frisk!ash revotes cayvie (still 3)
241 - Frisk!ash votes no lynch, unvotes cayvie (2)
244 - Robz votes jimmmmm (1)
246 - Galz votes Robz (1), unvotes joth (0)
250 - Dsell votes Robz (2), unvotes Axxle (1)
251 - Insom votes Robz (3), unvotes Frisk (1)
296 - Frisk!ash votes jimmmmm (2)
308 - cayvie votes Robz (4), unvotes Frisk (0)
309 - Frisk!ash votes Robz (5), unvotes jimmmmm (1)
311 - Eevee votes Robz (6), unvotes cayvie (1)
348 - cayvie votes jimmmmm (2), unvotes Robz (5)
352 - Arch votes jimmmmm (3)
353 - Galz votes jimmmmm (4), unvotes Robz (4)
354 - Jorbles votes Robz (5), unvotes Axxle (0)
357 - joth votes jimmmmm (5), unvotes Galz (0)
390 - Dsell votes jimmmmm (6), unvotes Robz (3)
401 - Frisk!ash votes jimmmmm [7], unvotes Robz (2)

[Voltgloss]

From my quick reread of Day 1, it appears that scum!Eevee:

- expressed townreads of varying levels of Tables, Galz, and Frisk;
- expressed scumreads of varying levels of jimmmmm, Robz, Jorbles, Axxle, and cayvie; and
- said very little, if anything, about Arch, Dsell, Insom, and joth.

On Day 1 in RMM-3, scum!Eevee expressed a mild townread of one scumbuddy (Frisk) and a mild scumread of the other (shraeye), while hedging with "giving him a pass because I always find him scummy" comments.  In that game, scum!Eevee went at it hammer and tongs with town players (especially Robz).

[Insomniac]

Hey Voltgloss will get this game going!

Are you suggesting that scum!Eevee expressed town/scum or didn't mention his scum buddies?

[Voltgloss]

jimmmmm used Leer at reply #320, limiting the universe of losevote candidates, and triggering an avalanche of votes on himself as a result.

Except from Jorbles.  Jorbles, what post(s) led you to vote Robz after jimmmmm used Leer?

[Voltgloss]

Are you suggesting that scum!Eevee expressed town/scum or didn't mention his scum buddies?

It's admittedly not concrete, but just as an initial theory, I would find it unlikely that scum!Eevee would completely fail to mention his scumbuddies.  This isn't enough to write off everyone he failed to address - just gives them a few points on the towniness meter.

I must say that I'm not enamored of a cayvie lynch.  Scum!Eevee's behavior towards cayvie Day 1 feels like scum!Eevee's behavior towards Robz Day 1 in RMM-3.  Yes, people can fix their metas etc. etc., but why should Eevee feel the need to fix his meta from behavior in a game where his team won?

[Voltgloss]

Fair warning:  I have not reread Day 2 yet.  (I followed along while it was happening, so I have some idea of what's gone down (like joth's claim), but have not yet refocused on the details.)  I want to organize my thoughts re: Day 1 first, so as to avoid confirmation bias as much as possible.

[Voltgloss]

Arch puts the L-1 winvote on Tables but, as near as I can tell, did not place a losevote until very near the end of the day (after the jimmmmm debacle was rolling).  He's the only person who placed a winvote without a closely contemporaneous losevote.

[Voltgloss]

Robzwagon before the jimmmmm debacle:  Galz, Dsell, Insom, cayvie, Frisk!ash, Eevee

jimmmmmwagon:  Robz (before jimmmmm used Leer), cayvie, Arch, Galz, joth, Dsell, Frisk!ash

[Dsell]

I still support lynching Robz. Winhammering Jo was uncharacteristically bad play for townRobz, whereas I could see scumRobz intentionally winhammering Jo and saying "I would never do something like that as scum."

It's possible that's one level of WIFOM too many, and that he is indeed town. It is a very WIFOM-y case against him, except for his lurking.

[Voltgloss]

Insom has posted a grand total of twice so far on Day 2.

[Voltgloss]

A while back, Galz asked everyone to say if they targeted him or not during the night.  Galz, I did NOT target you during the night.

I don't recall that everyone responded to Galz's question.  Galz, is it important that everyone do so before the Day ends?

[Voltgloss]

Goin' back to reread how the Robzwagon petered out on Day 1.  I know jimmmmm's using Leer was what shifted the focus onto jimmmmm, but I thought there was more going on before that happened.

[Insomniac]

I didn't talk to galz

[Voltgloss]

Insom has posted a grand total of twice so far on Day 2.

To clarify, this didn't include Insom's post saying that I would get the game going, as I was just rereading up until when I subbed in.  And of course it doesn't include Insom's latest post.

[Galzria]

A while back, Galz asked everyone to say if they targeted him or not during the night.  Galz, I did NOT target you during the night.

I don't recall that everyone responded to Galz's question.  Galz, is it important that everyone do so before the Day ends?

Well, there was very little talk about what actually happened last night, and it could potentially help me sort that out. The question that would honestly be most helpful, and potentially turn me into a pseudo-cop, is move claiming. Not the actions themselves (ie. I don't care about what the move does), just the names.

[Voltgloss]

The question that would honestly be most helpful, and potentially turn me into a pseudo-cop, is move claiming. Not the actions themselves (ie. I don't care about what the move does), just the names.

OK.

My first-generation move is Rage.
My second-generation move is Frustration.
My third-generation move is Super Power.

[Dsell]

Fury Cutter and X-Scissor.

[Voltgloss]

Insom, what are your reads?

[jotheonah]

yeah, Insom's lurkiness this day is getting pretty suspicious. Haven't heard from cayvie in a while either, despite some votes on her.

I really think scum is trying to lurk us to the deadline, but if they are, does that mean the current plurality-leader is town? Because that would be cayvie, IIRC.

Maybe I should Vote: Insomniac instead.

[Archetype]

I posted my moves earlier, but I'd be willing to post them again:

Stage 1: Harden
Stage 2: Iron Defense
Stage 3: Metal Burst, Iron Defense

[Archetype]

I could get behind an Insom wagon, about on par with Robz.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

[jotheonah]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

^post 393 (Jorbles' answer to Volt's question)

Jorbles, is there a way to wake you up?

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz

Unlosevote

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz

[Archetype]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

^post 393 (Jorbles' answer to Volt's question)

Jorbles, is there a way to wake you up?

He needs experience IIRC

[Jorbles]

Losevote: Axxle/Voltgloss
Losevote: Dsell
Losevote: cayvie
Losevote: Insomniac
Losevote: Robz888

[Voltgloss]

I just think the lynch feels bad, but I really don't have an alternative.

Is the Robz wagon just a lurker!Robz = scum!Robz case?

^post 393 (Jorbles' answer to Volt's question)

No, I think Jorbles is referring to 303.  This.

I'm already on Robz.

Lurker!Robz has NEVER been town!Robz, but he HAS been scum!Robz, and honestly if he IS town here but can't find the time to contribute meaningfully, then he's in too many games, and removing him only helps his other games. But removing a lurker does NOT hurt us as much here if said lurker is town.

Obviously I hope that he's scum, and I have a lurker!Robz meta to back up my belief that he will, but I'm comfortable with this lynch either way.

Jimmmm also needs to get in here, and I wouldn't be adverse to his lynch, but Robz' Jimmmm vote makes me want Robz more.

[Galzria]

Man, in light of today, that post makes me feel like a jerk.

[Voltgloss]

On reread, I see I missed that Galz and Eevee both unvoted Robz almost immediately after Eevee put Robz at L-1.  Followed shortly thereafter by jimmmmm's Leer, which then became the subject of conversation for the remainder of the day.  I've updated the vote histories below, accordingly.

Day 1 Winvotes:

3 - Axxle winvotes Axxle (1)
5 - Galz winvotes Galz (1)
15 - Tables winvotes Tables (1)
16 - Jorbles winvotes Jorbles (1)
44 - Jimmmmm winvotes Jimmmmm (1)
60 - Eevee winvotes Tables (2)
65 - Frisk winvotes Frisk (1)
81 - Dsell winvotes Eevee (1)
82 - Axxle winvotes Tables (3), unvotes Axxle (0)
85 - Galz winvotes Insom (1), unvotes Galz (0)
91 - Insom winvotes Tables (4)
93 - joth winvotes Insom (2)
101 - Jorbles winvotes Tables (5), unvotes Jorbles (0)
118 - Arch winvotes Tables (6)
127 - Galz winvotes Tables [7]
129 - Eevee tries to winvote Galz but winvote is locked

Day 1 Losevotes:

3 - Axxle votes Arch (1)
5 - Galz votes Axxle (1)
14 - Jorbles votes Axxle (2)
36 - Tables votes Eevee (1)
44 - Jimmmmm votes Eevee (2)
53 - Axxle votes Jorbles (1), unvotes Arch (0)
57 - Tables unvotes Eevee (1)
61 - Tables votes Robz (1)
65 - Frisk votes cayvie (1)
85 - Galz votes joth (1), unvotes Axxle (1)
87 - joth votes Galz (1)
91 - Insom votes Frisk (1)
113 - Tables votes Jorbles (2), unvotes Robz (0)
117 - Tables unvotes Jorbles (1)
148 - Eevee votes cayvie (2)
153 - cayvie votes Eevee (2)
168 - Tables votes Eevee (3)
173 - Tables unvotes Eevee (2)
183 - Dsell votes Axxle (2)
202 - cayvie votes Frisk (2), unvotes Eevee (1)
207 - Tables votes cayvie (3)
238 - Frisk!ash revotes cayvie (still 3)
241 - Frisk!ash votes no lynch, unvotes cayvie (2)
244 - Robz votes jimmmmm (1)
246 - Galz votes Robz (1), unvotes joth (0)
250 - Dsell votes Robz (2), unvotes Axxle (1)
251 - Insom votes Robz (3), unvotes Frisk (1)
296 - Frisk!ash votes jimmmmm (2)
308 - cayvie votes Robz (4), unvotes Frisk (0)
309 - Frisk!ash votes Robz (5), unvotes jimmmmm (1)
311 - Eevee votes Robz (6), unvotes cayvie (1)
316 - Galzria unvotes Robz (5)
318 - Eevee unvotes Robz (4)
320 - jimmmmm uses Leer
348 - cayvie votes jimmmmm (2), unvotes Robz (3)
352 - Arch votes jimmmmm (3)
353 - Galz votes jimmmmm (4)
354 - Jorbles votes Robz (5), unvotes Axxle (0)
357 - joth votes jimmmmm (5), unvotes Galz (0)
390 - Dsell votes jimmmmm (6), unvotes Robz (2)
401 - Frisk!ash votes jimmmmm [7], unvotes Robz (2)

[Voltgloss]

I don't like Insom vanishing without any comment after I asked him for his reads.  He was clearly following the thread to respond within three minutes to my "Insom has posted a grand total of twice" post.

Like, man, I get the suspicion on Robz for lurking, and pot kettle black etc., but Insom's lurk has now surpassed even Robz's.

Who all has FoS'd or voted Robz for lurking?  To those people:  what are your thoughts re: Insom?

[Voltgloss]

Robz is over in Deep Space Nine mafia making post counts.

Hey Robz.  Howzabout a post count here, in the game that has a lynch deadline in less than 24 hours?

[Voltgloss]

Galz, who so far has NOT answered your "did you target me last night" question?  Also, who hasn't claimed their movesets?

[Robz888]

Oh, Galz's post that lurker Robz is never town Robz is totally false. It's true in normal games. But I always lurk through the first few days of role madness and bastard games. I didn't get very evolved in eHal's first one until it was down to like me, cayvie, jo, and eevee (well, I was involved in the cult thing, but not before or after that very much). And in Ozle's game I was almost lynched Day 1 for lurking, then I claimed LR and lived, and then I was basically inactive until it was down to me, jo, volt, insomniac, and timchen. I was town in those games. Dunno. I guess I like to give other people a chance to lead in rm games.

I mean, I agree it would be helpful if I got more involved here, sorry.

[Robz888]

Oh, Galz's post that lurker Robz is never town Robz is totally false. It's true in normal games. But I always lurk through the first few days of role madness and bastard games. I didn't get very evolved in eHal's first one until it was down to like me, cayvie, jo, and eevee (well, I was involved in the cult thing, but not before or after that very much). And in Ozle's game I was almost lynched Day 1 for lurking, then I claimed LR and lived, and then I was basically inactive until it was down to me, jo, volt, insomniac, and timchen. I was town in those games. Dunno. I guess I like to give other people a chance to lead in rm games.

I mean, I agree it would be helpful if I got more involved here, sorry.

/pokeslip

[Robz888]

I feel pretty bad that my defense is "Don't kill me, I ALWAYS lurk!" though. I don't take that crap from Glooble, so I don't know hwy you should take it from Robz. Uh, sorry. The new thread! The new thread here killed me. Absolutely killed me.

[Galzria]

Galz, who so far has NOT answered your "did you target me last night" question?  Also, who hasn't claimed their movesets?

I'll need to skim back. This game has been so strewn out it's been hard to track. Give me a few to try and compile something of a list.

[Voltgloss]

Galz, who so far has NOT answered your "did you target me last night" question?  Also, who hasn't claimed their movesets?

I'll need to skim back. This game has been so strewn out it's been hard to track. Give me a few to try and compile something of a list.

Actually, I just did, at least re: the "did not target Galz" question, and assuming the below is a phonepost autocorrect from "target" to "talk to":

I didn't talk to galz

...then the only person who has not so far claimed "I didn't target Galz last night" is Robz.

[Voltgloss]

So Robz.  Did you target Galz last night?

[Galzria]

Did they target me:

Archetype - Not sure
Cayvie - No
Dsell - No
Jorbles - No
Axxle/Volt - No


Move Claim:

Galz: Bite, Dragon Rage, Outrage
Arch: Harden, Iron Defense, Metal Burst/Iron Defense
Joth: Fury Swipes, Swing, XXX
Tables: Leer, Scary Face, XXX
Ax/Volt: Rage, Frustration, Super Power
Dsell: Fury, Cutter, X-Scissors

[Robz888]

So Robz.  Did you target Galz last night?

Oh. Didn't know that was a thing. I did NOT target Galz.

[Robz888]

I don't think I gave my moveset either? Fling/Bone Club/Retaliate

[Insomniac]

Did they target me:

Archetype - Not sure
Cayvie - No
Dsell - No
Jorbles - No
Axxle/Volt - No


Move Claim:

Galz: Bite, Dragon Rage, Outrage
Arch: Harden, Iron Defense, Metal Burst/Iron Defense
Joth: Fury Swipes, Swing, XXX
Tables: Leer, Scary Face, XXX
Ax/Volt: Rage, Frustration, Super Power
Dsell: Fury, Cutter, X-Scissors

Galz I didn't target you.
My move names are (in evo order)
Nightshade/Dream Eater/Nightmare

[Insomniac]

Volt my girlfriend is sick with the very thing that had me sick last thursday, its not nice so I've been ducking out a lot to tend to her. Anyways I don't have any strong reads this game, IMO not that much has happened that I get reads off of and I have a bit of analysis paralysis from it.

[Voltgloss]

Sorry to hear that, Insom.  Hope she is feeling better soon.

Galz, I think you can add joth to the list of "did not target you" because he claimed to have targeted someone else instead (Tables).

[Voltgloss]

And I think Tables said somewhere he didn't target you either.  Will check.

[Galzria]

And I think Tables said somewhere he didn't target you either.  Will check.

I was surprised not to find it, but it may have been implied by a claim made earlier in the day (like Joth targeting Tables).

[Voltgloss]

Yeah, Tables said he didn't target you Galz in the post immediately after the time you FIRST asked for that info.  He also claimed his third move:  Double Team.

Galz, is someone lying?  Do you know for a fact that someone DID target you last night?

[Dsell]

I don't think I gave my moveset either? Fling/Bone Club/Retaliate

Which ability/abilities do you have now?

[Robz888]

I don't think I gave my moveset either? Fling/Bone Club/Retaliate

Which ability/abilities do you have now?

Just Fling. I get Bone Club and Retaliate after I level up.

[Dsell]

Did they target me:

Archetype - Not sure
Cayvie - No
Dsell - No
Jorbles - No
Axxle/Volt - No


Move Claim:

Galz: Bite, Dragon Rage, Outrage
Arch: Harden, Iron Defense, Metal Burst/Iron Defense
Joth: Fury Swipes, Swing, XXX
Tables: Leer, Scary Face, XXX
Ax/Volt: Rage, Frustration, Super Power
Dsell: Fury, Cutter, X-Scissors

Minor detail, but Fury Cutter is one attack and X-Scissor is the other. So just 2 attacks for me.

[Dsell]

I don't think I gave my moveset either? Fling/Bone Club/Retaliate

Which ability/abilities do you have now?

Just Fling. I get Bone Club and Retaliate after I level up.

Interesting...I have just one evolution as well but only get 1 move upon leveling up. (Unless I am remembering wrong, I'll go check my PM just in case.)

[Galzria]

Yeah, Tables said he didn't target you Galz in the post immediately after the time you FIRST asked for that info.  He also claimed his third move:  Double Team.

Galz, is someone lying?  Do you know for a fact that someone DID target you last night?

Unfortunately, no. Had someone targeted me I would've been able to clear them as VERY nearly 100% town, but nobody admitted to doing so - so either nobody did last night, or just Eevee did.

No harm in saying what my first round power was since it's changed now anyway - but I was a PGO that fired blindly. A terrible version of a Vig basically. But this is RMM, so I decided what the hell and activated. Anybody who targeted me would've been randomly rolled to be shot.

Now, given we had 1 town death (which I must attribute to scum), that left 1 scum death to account for. If scum were shooting someone else, I could totally see Eevee wanting to Rolecop/Roleblock/Whatever me.

If someone had said they targeted me, that would've meant at LEAST two did, since the person claiming was still alive. In this case, I would be sure to have targeted Eevee to kill, and since that would mean Eevee was targeting me, it would be unlikely for two scum to do so - thus we would have a near confirmed town.

As it is, I can only speculate that Eevee alone targeted me, and I PGO'd him.

[Robz888]

Huh. Um, so I have some conflicting intel on that. Well, not really conflicting, I guess. Should I explain it? It involves me saying what my Fling does.

[Galzria]

Huh. Um, so I have some conflicting intel on that. Well, not really conflicting, I guess. Should I explain it? It involves me saying what my Fling does.

Understand that I have no clue how Eevee died. I've no idea if he targeted me. I just know that if he did, it would've killed him since nobody else claimed to target me.

[Robz888]

Huh. Um, so I have some conflicting intel on that. Well, not really conflicting, I guess. Should I explain it? It involves me saying what my Fling does.

Understand that I have no clue how Eevee died. I've no idea if he targeted me. I just know that if he did, it would've killed him since nobody else claimed to target me.

Okay.

[Archetype]

Robz: Does your Fling do the same thing as joth's?

[Robz888]

Robz: Does your Fling do the same thing as joth's?

What does Joth's Fling do? Joth has FLing?

[Robz888]

Joth doesn't have Fling, according to his claims.

[Archetype]

Joth doesn't have Fling, according to his claims.

IIRC he said he has Fury Swipes and Fling.

[Voltgloss]

Yes, whoever typed "Swing" for joth made a typo.

[Robz888]

Oh. Did he say what his Fling does?

[Dsell]

We already have one example of moves apparently not doing the same thing: Jimmm's leer and Tables' leer. That is of course assuming Tables is telling the truth about his claim (and I don't see why he wouldn't...in fact I think Jo can confirm this)

[Dsell]

Oh. Did he say what his Fling does?

I believe full alignment cop.

[Archetype]

Robz: Does your Fling do the same thing as joth's?

Eh. Maybe it's better you didnt claim. Joth's Fling is a cop, and you probably would have claimed cop by now if it matched his.

What does Joth's Fling do? Joth has FLing?

[Robz888]

Oh. Did he say what his Fling does?

I believe full alignment cop.

Interesting, that is not at all what it does for me. Not even close. Not even in the same family of things.

[Dsell]

Oh. Did he say what his Fling does?

I believe full alignment cop.

Interesting, that is not at all what it does for me. Not even close. Not even in the same family of things.

FWIW, I believe Tables said something similar about his version of Leer.

Also FWIW, it's very strange to me that the mods would give totally different abilities the same name. There are hundreds of attack names they could have chosen from...

[Archetype]

Robz: Does your Fling do the same thing as joth's?

Eh. Maybe it's better you didnt claim. Joth's Fling is a cop, and you probably would have claimed cop by now if it matched his.

What does Joth's Fling do? Joth has FLing?

Quoting fail^

[Voltgloss]

But joth confirmed Tables has Leer.  So the only way this could be a lie is if joth and Tables both are scum... or if joth's ability was somehow redirected or otherwise confounded, I guess?  But if joth/Tables are scum, they can just make up any other move for Tables to supposedly have - why would they pick the one move that was already revealed to be in the possession of another player?

[Archetype]

I'm finding it strange too. But more strange that the attack names dont fit their effect well. Mine does. Jimmmm's Leer sort of does. I asked this question earlier, but very few people answered.

It's not imperative to my role or anything like Galzs was. I'm just curious, because like Dsell said, there are enough Attack names to fit nearly every role.

[Dsell]

But joth confirmed Tables has Leer.  So the only way this could be a lie is if joth and Tables both are scum... or if joth's ability was somehow redirected or otherwise confounded, I guess?  But if joth/Tables are scum, they can just make up any other move for Tables to supposedly have - why would they pick the one move that was already revealed to be in the possession of another player?

Precisely. I think both Jimmmm and Tables have Leer and that they both do different things. Thus, I don't think the fact that both Robz and Jo claim to have the same name for totally different actions really damns anyone. It's plausible at least.

[Galzria]

But joth confirmed Tables has Leer.  So the only way this could be a lie is if joth and Tables both are scum... or if joth's ability was somehow redirected or otherwise confounded, I guess?  But if joth/Tables are scum, they can just make up any other move for Tables to supposedly have - why would they pick the one move that was already revealed to be in the possession of another player?

Note: Joth only confirmed it AFTER Tables had claimed, NOT the other way around.

[Dsell]

I don't mean "strange" as in scummy, I just mean curious, odd, it leaves me wondering why the mods would do that. But not doubting that they did.

[Archetype]

But joth confirmed Tables has Leer.  So the only way this could be a lie is if joth and Tables both are scum... or if joth's ability was somehow redirected or otherwise confounded, I guess?  But if joth/Tables are scum, they can just make up any other move for Tables to supposedly have - why would they pick the one move that was already revealed to be in the possession of another player?

I dont think it's scummy to have duplicate names of roles, just weird.

[Archetype]

Dsell Ninja'd

[Voltgloss]

I'm finding it strange too. But more strange that the attack names dont fit their effect well. Mine does. Jimmmm's Leer sort of does. I asked this question earlier, but very few people answered.

I get why you'd ask this Arch, but I think it cuts too close to fishing about role effects (especially now that a lot of attack names have been claimed), which is why people - including myself - are leery of answering it. 

[Archetype]

Yeah, I get were you're coming from Volt.

I just find it really strange how my Move Names matchup very well with their effect, while other players' don't.

[Galzria]

My first power kind of did.

I was very bitey. Anything that got near me needed to be wary of being bitten.

[Archetype]

Eh yeah that sort of fits.

I'm just not seeing the connection between Fury Swipes and RoleCopping.

[Voltgloss]

Tables:  On reread, I usually find you weighing in on most topics of discussion - but you are conspicuously absnet during the entire last section of Day 1, after jimmmmm used Leer and the subsequent fallout.  Why is that?

[Voltgloss]

Deadline's in, what, 8 hours?

I feel like we're lacking in Day 1 info because the jimmmmm lynch was so driven by jimmmmm's use of Leer.  Like, that lynch could easily have been all town.  Scum!Eevee certainly didn't feel the need to help it along.  On the other hand, maybe that's because scum was already on the jimmmmm wagon.  Argh.

The Robz wagon is more interesting even though we don't know Robz's flip.  I find it unlikely that scum!Eevee would jump on scum!Robz's wagon with the L-1 vote and then almost immediately jump back off again.  I expect scum!Eevee would either stay away and push someone else's lynch, or he would push the bus.  The rapid-fire on/off suggests that Robz is town, sloppy play notwithstanding.

So who else was on Robz's wagon?  Galz, Dsell, Insom, cayvie, Frisk!ash (town).  Insom and cayvie are in the middle of the pack.  cayvie was also on jimmmmm's wagon, though early (vote #2, first vote after jimmmmm used Leer).  Insom was not on jimmmmm's wagon.

I get the arguments for cayvie being scum but I am concerned they blur the "lynch Mafia not scum" distinction.  And I still find it unlikely that scum!Eevee would go so hard after scum!cayvie on Day 1.  His interactions with cayvie still remind me more of his scum attacks on Robz in RMM-3 (where Robz was town) than of anything else.

The one person I'd like to hear from today is Tables, who also drove hard against cayvie, and who was absent during the entire jimmmmm debacle.  But I am concerned we may not hear from him prior to deadline.

Absent a better option, I think this leads me into a Losevote: Insomniac, for a combination of lurking, scummy middle-of-pack vote on Robz, and staying the hell away from the jimmmmm debacle.  I'm not gung-ho thrilled about this but I like it better than the alternatives.  If someone has a strong argument for another option, let's hear it.  (I saw Dsell's name suggested but I am not clear on the case against him - I note that he winvoted Eevee early, which strikes me as kind of an odd play for scum to do.)

[jotheonah]

Wait, when is the deadline? Isn't it today? Munch, can we get a vote count?

[Robz888]

I can live with Losevote: Insomniac.

[Insomniac]

Wow robz scummy much. Volt gives perfectly good reasons for voting me (a townie) and your just all happy to sheep. That said your play is remniscent of town robz. So I'm not going to vote you I also don't like the DSell wagon that much.

I guess I'll LoseVote: Cayvie in hopes of finding a better wagon

[Galzria]

That's a really good point about Eevee/Robz. My twisted,biased mind wants to believe that Scum!Eevee saw a scum lynch going down and didn't want to miss the opportunity to bus - but realized how scummy that L-1 vote would look when Robz flipped, so hastily jumped away again.

But perhaps I'm chasing shadows that don't really exist. It's hard not to trust you when you sub into a game, Volt. I don't know why. If you're scum directing traffic at this point... Well, we all probably deserve it. Still, I'll unvote for now. Not going to through a losevote out on Insomniac yet, but I will if a stronger case doesn't come up by the end of the day.

I don't like that the case on Insomniac is the weaker version of my case on Robz - but I'll have to let fox go for today I suppose.

[Voltgloss]

Very unofficial losevote count:

cayvie (1): Insomniac
Insomniac (3): Robz888, jotheonah, Voltgloss
Robz888 (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables

Not voting (3): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria

Would really like to hear from: Tables, cayvie, Dsell.

[Voltgloss]

Deadline's at 7 p.m. EST today.  So just under 7 hours from now.

[Insomniac]

Well based on

Deadline's at 7 p.m. EST today.  So just under 7 hours from now.

and the fact that I'm the leading lynch choice I think cayvie, and Jorbles are scummy and maybe Tables for disappearing

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz

zzz?

[jotheonah]

Has theMunch said what will happen if we hit deadline with a locked winvote and a tied losevote?

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.7
LoseVote
Insomniac (3): Robz888, jotheonah, Voltgloss
Robz888 (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables
cayvie (1): Insomniac

Not voting (3): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Voltgloss]

Has theMunch said what will happen if we hit deadline with a locked winvote and a tied losevote?

Hidden democracy on the losevote, I think.

4a.  Each vote count will be separately locked the moment it reaches majority.  After one of the vote counts has been locked, discussion will continue prior to deadline until the other vote count has been resolved (eg if a winner is chosen, discussion will continue until a loser is chosen; no votes could be changed regarding the winner).  If deadline is reached and only one votecount has reached majority, the other votecount will be decided by whichever player is leading at the time of the deadline.  If neither votecount has reached majority, the game will go to night with no fight.  If there is a tie at deadline, thread will be locked and a hidden democracy will take place to determine the outcome (each player will pm the name of which of the tied candidates they would like to resolve; majority rules).

[Insomniac]

@Jorbles. Because of the post restriction. I mean as its been said this isn't bm

[Dsell]

Voltgloss replaced Axxle, correct?

I went back and was rereading the start, scum reads on Axxle/Voltgloss (who jokingly requested a mod poke on himself just 6 minutes after I called him out for having no content. He did not subsequently come forward with any content), Robz, who has been trying harder not to lurk recently, but has still done some scummy things (calling out lurkers as he lurked, winhammering joth when the plan was to wait), and cayvie, who has been very inactive on the forums in the last few days and who had a lot of interactions with eevee that could be perceived as manufactured (this is Tables' case). Lots of "let's get this game going" without actually offering a whole lot.

[jotheonah]

cayvie hasn't been on in a while, and I don't have high confidence she'll turn up before the deadline.

[jotheonah]

Meh. unvote.

This is seeming too easy. I don't want to derp into an Insom lynch anymore than I want to derp into a cayvie lynch, and I don't think there are any winners in that WIFOM game. I think if Insom were scum, and scum were trying to lurk us to a bad deadline lynch, someone would have defended him by now. There has got to be a real case to be made somewhere.

[jotheonah]

Dear, not voting crowd: What are you waiting for?

[Voltgloss]

I get your concern, joth.

Really, the person I am most worried about is Tables.  Why is he not weighing in?  He was on the forum earlier today, and said nothing, not a peep.  This is exactly what he did while jimmmmm's lynch was going down Day 1 as well.

Maybe I'm biased because I wasn't around for the flurry of activity that got Tables winvoted so quickly Day 1, and so don't have the townread many of you seem to have.  Or, on the flip side, maybe I'm the only one not biased?   

Seriously though.  Why does Tables get a pass?  Can someone explain that in a couple of sentences?

[Insomniac]

I get your concern, joth.

Really, the person I am most worried about is Tables.  Why is he not weighing in?  He was on the forum earlier today, and said nothing, not a peep.  This is exactly what he did while jimmmmm's lynch was going down Day 1 as well.

Maybe I'm biased because I wasn't around for the flurry of activity that got Tables winvoted so quickly Day 1, and so don't have the townread many of you seem to have.  Or, on the flip side, maybe I'm the only one not biased?   

Seriously though.  Why does Tables get a pass?  Can someone explain that in a couple of sentences?

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

[jotheonah]

And for that matter, why is no one suspecting Galzria?

I seem to recall that today his big contributions have been:

- Casting doubt on my towniness post cop-claim

and

- Advocating a mass move claim without much explanation

[Voltgloss]

Voltgloss replaced Axxle, correct?

I went back and was rereading the start, scum reads on Axxle/Voltgloss (who jokingly requested a mod poke on himself just 6 minutes after I called him out for having no content. He did not subsequently come forward with any content), Robz, who has been trying harder not to lurk recently, but has still done some scummy things (calling out lurkers as he lurked, winhammering joth when the plan was to wait), and cayvie, who has been very inactive on the forums in the last few days and who had a lot of interactions with eevee that could be perceived as manufactured (this is Tables' case). Lots of "let's get this game going" without actually offering a whole lot.

Dsell, I don't dispute your points about cayvie's, Robz's, and my predecessor's lurking... but doesn't Insom fall right into the thick of the lurkmire as well?  On a continuum of scumlurkiness, where do you comparatively rate cayvie/Robz/Insom/me?

[Voltgloss]

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

Huh.

So.  Are we suddenly playing mafia in a world where scum Roleblockers are not a thing?

[Voltgloss]

And for that matter, why is no one suspecting Galzria?

I seem to recall that today his big contributions have been:

- Casting doubt on my towniness post cop-claim

and

- Advocating a mass move claim without much explanation

joth, I am willing to give Galz a pass today because he has also claimed to now have a pseudo-investigative power (since evolving).  I think it's worth our giving him a chance to put that to work for town.

[Voltgloss]

Hi Tables.  Come talk to us.

[Robz888]

I get your concern, joth.

Really, the person I am most worried about is Tables.  Why is he not weighing in?  He was on the forum earlier today, and said nothing, not a peep.  This is exactly what he did while jimmmmm's lynch was going down Day 1 as well.

Maybe I'm biased because I wasn't around for the flurry of activity that got Tables winvoted so quickly Day 1, and so don't have the townread many of you seem to have.  Or, on the flip side, maybe I'm the only one not biased?   

Seriously though.  Why does Tables get a pass?  Can someone explain that in a couple of sentences?

By the time I realized this game had started up (in a new thread) Tables was already practically at obvtown status.

[Insomniac]

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

Huh.

So.  Are we suddenly playing mafia in a world where scum Roleblockers are not a thing?

How does that matter? They would have to know who the cop was, AND even if they did no result can be pretty damning.

[jotheonah]

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

Huh.

So.  Are we suddenly playing mafia in a world where scum Roleblockers are not a thing?

How does that matter? They would have to know who the cop was, AND even if they did no result can be pretty damning.

I don't see how. Once the cop claims they block him no matter what. He'd get a no result whomever he targted.

[Voltgloss]

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

Huh.

So.  Are we suddenly playing mafia in a world where scum Roleblockers are not a thing?

How does that matter? They would have to know who the cop was, AND even if they did no result can be pretty damning.

Well, maybe I'm getting confused, didn't this Day start with a call for the Cop to claim?  Was that not the outgrowth of Tables' original plan?

Actually, I guess I am getting confused.  Going back to reread to get my head straight on exactly who suggested what.

[Insomniac]

IMO He's wore his "freepass" thin he got it for suggesting that we winvote someone, that someone is copped and the cop only comes forward if he gets a scum result, it seemed like a very pro town idea at the time.

Huh.

So.  Are we suddenly playing mafia in a world where scum Roleblockers are not a thing?

How does that matter? They would have to know who the cop was, AND even if they did no result can be pretty damning.

I don't see how. Once the cop claims they block him no matter what. He'd get a no result whomever he targted.

Yes, thats why they don't claim till they find scum.

[Tables]

Oh, wow, explosion of activity.

Uh okay I don't have time to read this now (heading out now) but looks like we're actually going to get somewhere.

[Voltgloss]

OK, I see now that Tables wasn't advocating a straight-up cop claim after Day 1.  On Day 1, Tables suggested that the cop investigate whoever was winvoted, and if they were scum then the cop should claim.

How did we get from that to Day 2 "the cop should claim today?"

PPE:  Tables.  The deadline is in 4 and a half hours.[b/]

[Voltgloss]

Also, font fail[/b][/b][ b][b/].

[Jorbles]

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz
zzz zzz

[jotheonah]

OK, I see now that Tables wasn't advocating a straight-up cop claim after Day 1.  On Day 1, Tables suggested that the cop investigate whoever was winvoted, and if they were scum then the cop should claim.

How did we get from that to Day 2 "the cop should claim today?"

PPE:  Tables.  The deadline is in 4 and a half hours.[b/]

Well I claimed because I knew I couldn't be any (useful) kind of cop unless I evolved and I figured claiming would be the easiest way to do it. I didn't consider the fact that I have no way to prove my own towniness, and therefore I couldn't count on endless winvote protection. Well, maybe I'll cop scum tonight and it will all be worth it.

Joth = bad at theory

[Insomniac]

The posts that jorbles is quoting

Assuming there's a Cop of course.

If anyone's a Cop, tell us now. Tell us your investigations, then we'll winvote you.

Stuff

i kind of want to wait to respond to this; it feels like it's coming from scum, but, as per your day 1 plan, we're likely going to find out whether you're scum or not very quickly.

Well it can't be 100% accurate, but we'll see what happens. I want you to post your reasons now. I find you suspicious based on your day 1 play, and you immediately (and for I think the first time all game) suddenly find me scummy. At the first point I could actually be voted for. That's... pretty suspicious, to say the least.

I think the cop claiming is probably the best course of action, BUT I would like my question above answered first. Although having said that this game is not going to be that long, so... eh.

[Dsell]

Voltgloss replaced Axxle, correct?

I went back and was rereading the start, scum reads on Axxle/Voltgloss (who jokingly requested a mod poke on himself just 6 minutes after I called him out for having no content. He did not subsequently come forward with any content), Robz, who has been trying harder not to lurk recently, but has still done some scummy things (calling out lurkers as he lurked, winhammering joth when the plan was to wait), and cayvie, who has been very inactive on the forums in the last few days and who had a lot of interactions with eevee that could be perceived as manufactured (this is Tables' case). Lots of "let's get this game going" without actually offering a whole lot.

Dsell, I don't dispute your points about cayvie's, Robz's, and my predecessor's lurking... but doesn't Insom fall right into the thick of the lurkmire as well?  On a continuum of scumlurkiness, where do you comparatively rate cayvie/Robz/Insom/me?

I went back and reread part of day 1. I have read day 2 but I'm getting the foundation of these cases from day 1. Insomniac has been pretty lurky too, but I have a null read on him from it. He's been fairly busy and doesn't seem highly active anywhere, though this is probably a case I should look into more.

Scumlurkiness looks like this:

Most scummy<---Axxle-----Robz----------Cayvie--->Null

Note that I find cayvie quite scummy, but not for her lurking. I didn't include Insomniac because I just haven't evaluated him yet. At this point he's squarely on null. Also note that I don't find you to be lurking whatsoever, I think you're rather leading the town. However, this doesn't make me forgive the crimes of your predecessor, the worst of which I mentioned in my last post.

[Jorbles]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz
zzz zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: Tables

[Voltgloss]

Dsell, I think you need to reread Insom to have a full view of Day 1 lurkage.  FWIW, my concerns about Insom were primarily driven by his Day 2 lurk, as by this time he has become more active again in other games (his RL issues hit towards the latter half of Day 1).

[Insomniac]

Dsell, I think you need to reread Insom to have a full view of Day 1 lurkage.  FWIW, my concerns about Insom were primarily driven by his Day 2 lurk, as by this time he has become more active again in other games (his RL issues hit towards the latter half of Day 1).

Like honestly there hasn't been anything to talk about in this game, no one is saying anything. You can look at ANY game I'm in. I very rarely lead town conversation when I'm not an IC that doesn't mean I don't participate in conversation that IS happening.

[Voltgloss]

Robz.  Thoughts on Tables?

[Dsell]

Fwiw I'm willing to give Tables a pass today too. He hasn't said anything to give me a scumread so he's still fairly townie in my eyes.

[Robz888]

Robz.  Thoughts on Tables?

Uhh... we were all acting like he was definitely town (including me). That may have been an oversight. Still, it hardly seems sound to lynch him now just because he hasn't showed up? Since we're on a deadline. I agree him not showing up reflects very poorly on him, but I don't know if it reflects poorly enough for him to be the lynch here, now, before he can given any response. You know?

[jotheonah]

Also, where's Archetype?

Urgh, I have work until 6 and then it will take me another hour to get home, and I can't be rereading the whole thread when I have two stories I need to write.

I feel like it's not protown for me to leave my vote unvoted, but I don't know where to put it.

If we end up lynching Insom, I guess can get behind that, since he's hardly contributing. But, like I said, the lack of any opposition to his lynch is worrying. I don't see the scum team just giving up their partner for dead, and it hardly seems like Insom is even fighting his own lynch that hard. I mean, plurality with 3.5 hours left is practically L-1, right? My gut says this is a mislynch waiting to happen.

[Voltgloss]

I want to accuse the entire town of being scummy for not caring about the looming deadline.  Including my past incarnation!

...but clearly that's not right.  Sigh.

Someone refresh my memory:  is it modconfirmed that there is only 1 scumteam, of 3 Mafioso to start?  I want to say that but don't see it in the rules.

Insom and Robz have both tried to up their activity since their lurkage was called out.  It's also not lost on me that a lot of the lurking happened over the holidays, AND while other games have been going on, AND while some RL things were happening as well.  So I'm not thrilled about the lurking, but I feel less inclined to vote over it.

I really dislike Tables taking a leading role but vanishing right when town needs a leader most - towards deadline.  It happened Day 1, it's happened again Day 2.

Arch is V/LA.  Jorbles I find it very difficult to draw a read on, given the post restriction. 

Dsell and Galz have both dropped oblique hints about their powers potentially being helpful to town (Dsell in a "my power is marginal utility but might be useful int he right circumstance" way).  Joth has overtly claimed about-to-become-Cop. 

That leaves cayvie, who has also pulled something of a vanishing act (but from the forum, not just this game).  Hrmg.  I still have concerns that Eevee attacking cayvie was like scum-vs-town, not scum-vs-scum.  There is also the fact that Day 2 opened with Tables-vs-cayvie, and Tables is raising red alerts on my scummeter as well.

joth: A question for you.  When you rolecopped Tables, did you find it suspicious that he had Leer, like jimmmmm?  If not, why not?

[Voltgloss]

Still, it hardly seems sound to lynch him now just because he hasn't showed up? Since we're on a deadline. I agree him not showing up reflects very poorly on him, but I don't know if it reflects poorly enough for him to be the lynch here, now, before he can given any response. You know?

I hear you, but at the same time, I want to avoid giving scum the option of "just don't be around at deadline, they'll never lynch you because you're not there to respond."

[jotheonah]

Since the only case of Leer we knew of was in the hands of confirmed town, I sort of felt like it gave him town cred, if anything.

Or do you mean, just suspicious that they shared such an esoteric power? I did think it was weird, but not out of the question.

[Insomniac]

Insom and Robz have both tried to up their activity since their lurkage was called out.

I have not been trying to up my activity, a Volt joined in that actually started creating things to talk about and with a deadline coming up I think its pretty important I not only be posting but being here. Although I do realize that from the outside it might look like me trying to up my post count/activity.

[Galzria]

Insom and Robz have both tried to up their activity since their lurkage was called out.

I have not been trying to up my activity, a Volt joined in that actually started creating things to talk about and with a deadline coming up I think its pretty important I not only be posting but being here. Although I do realize that from the outside it might look like me trying to up my post count/activity.

I disagree, although I think you're town. There was lots of things to jump in and contribute to prior to Volt getting here. It's not like the day started 10, 20, 50, or even 100 posts within him arriving. There was plenty to talk about, you simply choose not to do so.

[Voltgloss]

What are everyone's thoughts on cayvie?

I confess, I'm struggling on cayvie - not just because the Eevee-meta reasons I previously described - but also because I tend to find cayvie scummy all the time, as a consequence of her posting style I think, and I'm actively trying to not let that bleed into my reads.

[Insomniac]

Insom and Robz have both tried to up their activity since their lurkage was called out.

I have not been trying to up my activity, a Volt joined in that actually started creating things to talk about and with a deadline coming up I think its pretty important I not only be posting but being here. Although I do realize that from the outside it might look like me trying to up my post count/activity.

I disagree, although I think you're town. There was lots of things to jump in and contribute to prior to Volt getting here. It's not like the day started 10, 20, 50, or even 100 posts within him arriving. There was plenty to talk about, you simply choose not to do so.

I don't think that thats true, I've read all of day 2 and I don't think there was actually much conversation being had. You had your asking what peoples moves are and if they targetted you and joth had his claiming cop other than that eh, and even those weren't that talked about. I'm not sure if Joth was cop fishing scum or is actually the cop but for now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And I'm pretty sure one of my few posts on this game day I did actually say I didn't target you before last night and you overlooked it but I could just be thinking I did.

[jotheonah]

What are everyone's thoughts on cayvie?

I confess, I'm struggling on cayvie - not just because the Eevee-meta reasons I previously described - but also because I tend to find cayvie scummy all the time, as a consequence of her posting style I think, and I'm actively trying to not let that bleed into my reads.

I'm close to revoting cayvie. But I do get a cayvie scum vibe erroneously often enough.

I don't want to lynch anybody. Which means scum are being crafty, I suppose.

I think I'd feel better about Vote: cayvie than I would about letting the Insom lynch go through by inaction, since at least Insom is here.

[Robz888]

I will vote for Cayvie to achieve some lynch if necessary. I am the opposite, though. I just always read Cayvie as town no matter what. She has a strange presence, I've found.

[Galzria]

Honestly at an absolute gut level, my biggest scum read is Joth. I winvoted him today because it made sense and I see the logic and the reasons for him to be town, but I can't shake the feeling that this claim is SO easy to fake... But in the absence of another real cop claim I've felt I need to set my own personal feelings aside and go with it.

Cayvie I have NEVER been able to read. She's not scummy, she's not town, she's just completely null. I don't think I've ever defended her and I don't think I've ever built a case on her. That said she's scum her share, so if push came to shove here I wouldn't oppose her lynch.

I'll admit my reasoning for thinking Insomniac is town is tainted by my mental biasing and inner tunneling on Joth. His sudden distancing felt like scum that knew a town flip was imminent and wanted to remove his name from making it happen. This is probably a really bad reason not to lynch Insomniac on my part, but it's out there now.

Robz' lynch I still like, but I understand the arguments against it.

Volt I simply won't lynch today, despite Axxle's play. Axxle was lurking egregiously but so was half the town.

Tables I've had constant misgivings about but I can't say that he's been particularly scummy. Just the opposite in fact. But that hasn't stopped me from feeling there was something off about his game.

Dsell is a lynch I could potentially support, but it's kind of a "if nothing better" lynch, which I really don't like.

Hum.

Is that all? Oh, Arche and Jorbles. Jorbles is no go for now. I don't think he's scum faking a restriction. Arche always reads scummy to me, but if anybody in the game has "not-threatening" moves, it's him. Don't know if that matters, but it stood out to me anyway.

[Voltgloss]

Robz, why are you ok with lynching an absent cayvie, but not ok with lynching an absent Tables?

[Robz888]

Robz, why are you ok with lynching an absent cayvie, but not ok with lynching an absent Tables?

Because Cayvie is sort of a nothing, whereas Tables was the single most active and helpful person by far until you arrived.

[Jorbles]

Losevote: Jorbles
Losevote: Archetype
Losevote: Galzria
Losevote: jotheonah

zzz zzz

Losevote: Voltgloss
Losevote: Dsell
Losevote: Insomniac
Losevote: Robz888

zzz zzz zzz

Losevote: Tables
Losevote: cayvie

zzz

[Voltgloss]

Robz, why are you ok with lynching an absent cayvie, but not ok with lynching an absent Tables?

Because Cayvie is sort of a nothing, whereas Tables was the single most active and helpful person by far until you arrived.

I don't know about Tables being the most active and helpful - I still dislike his vanishing act during the jimmmmm debacle - but yeah, he's certainly been more active and pro-town than cayvie, this is true.

[Voltgloss]

Is it correct that we only have 2 scum left?  Do we know this for certain?

[Voltgloss]

I must be hallucinating the "known to be 3 scum" thing.  I can't find it anywhere, and the Day 1 Start post refers only to "some number" of traitors.

[Voltgloss]

I suppose a cayvie lynch would help shed some light on Tables, no matter what her flip - given how hard he pushed for her lynch at the start of this Day.

[Galzria]

Is it correct that we only have 2 scum left?  Do we know this for certain?

I thought that was the case, but as per your next post here, I thought it was in the original post that there was 3.

[Dsell]

Volt, I was thinking the same thing. I think maybe on the other rules page, the thread that existed before this one? I'll go check.

I'm pretty much available until the deadline now.

Lynches I will not support:
Tables
Galzria
Jorbles
Archetype
Jo (obviously)

I'd have to be persuaded to lynch Insom because I don't feel great about it. I think I'd be willing to lynch most everyone else, with preference toward lynching Cayvie. I think. I used to always read her as town, but then after I first saw her play scum (and played scum with her), I always read her scummy, even though she plays the same. But I didn't love her interactions with Eevee and I know that they're experienced enough to pull something like that as scumbuddies.

[Galzria]

I checked there too already. No go.

[Dsell]

And the thing that I like about the Axxle/Volt lynch that's worth repeating is that I called out Axxle for lynching and six minutes later he posted joking about asking for a modprod on himself. He did not give any content after that, even though he was obviously following the thread. It feels like Grujah from day 1 MXI. I did not believe that case at the time but he flipped scum after pulling some similar shenanigans.

But I will admit that Volt reads much townier.

[Voltgloss]

Man.

I feel like I want to "do better" than a cayvie lynch today, but under the circumstances I don't think we can.  And heck, she COULD certainly be scum; she has a scummy vote spot on the Day 1 Robzwagon and was the first vote on jimmmmm after he used Leer.

The main argument against is the Eevee-meta thing I described before... but voting based on meta is always dicey, I know. 

With so little time left, and with multiple players absent, and with everyone else who is around to defend themselves all being people I would not want to lynch (at least compared to cayvie)...

I mean, does anyone who is presently here not support a cayvie lynch?

[Robz888]

Vote: cayvie then.

[Insomniac]

As the first one voting for cayvie this time around I obviously support the lynch fully.

[Dsell]

What are we at? I don't suppose we're near L-1 yet. I'm ready to vote.

[Insomniac]

me joth jorbles volt robz.

[Insomniac]

so dsell you would be a hammer.

[Dsell]

I will wait then since I'll be around.

Would rather nobody hammer till we're closer, I hope to reread more of day 1, especially looking at Jimmmm wagon and Eevee interactions.

But I intend to hammer before deadline.

[Insomniac]

NM Volt didn't join I just assumed he did cuz Robz is ultra sheeping him and it seems super scummy.

[Voltgloss]

I actually don't think my vote is on cayvie yet.  I believe my vote will make it L-1. 

I'm comfortable with doing that, but want to go back and doublecheck votes to make sure my vote isn't an accidental hammer.  Doing so now.

[Insomniac]

I actually don't think my vote is on cayvie yet.  I believe my vote will make it L-1. 

I'm comfortable with doing that, but want to go back and doublecheck votes to make sure my vote isn't an accidental hammer.  Doing so now.

shes at l-2 you or dsell would be l-1.

I mistakenly thought you voted for cayvie in your big post because in the post immediately following robz voted for cayvie. Similarily to what happened when you voted for me.

[jotheonah]

In 2 hours, if we do nothing, cayvie gets lynched anyway, right? Whether or not we hammer, who hammers, that's all kind of immaterial, isn't it?

[Voltgloss]

I still would like the record to be clear.  We all acquiesced to this lynch, there's no reason not to make it official with our votes.  I don't want to create a precedent of letting plurality lynches coast to deadline - I fear that will make it easier for scum to avoid lynches they want to have happen (i.e., mislynches) but with which they don't want to be associated.

And I've since confirmed cayvie is at L-2.  Losevote: cayvie.  Now she is at L-1.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.8
LoseVote
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables
{L-1}cayvie (5): Insomniac, jotheonah, Jorbles, Robz888, Voltgloss

Not voting (3): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 8th, 7:00pm forum time

[Voltgloss]

Tables!  You can run non-mafia games later!  Get in here and give us your thoughts before the deadline in 1 hour!  I'm only about 60% joking! 

[Archetype]

I'm here, but not voting cayvie. I mean I can, I guess, but she's just not reading scummy to me. Not particularly town either though.

So no, not voting cayvie. I could vote Insom though.

[Archetype]

Have to zip back out, so Losevote: Insomniac. Won't be here for deadline.

[Insomniac]

Have to zip back out, so Losevote: Insomniac. Won't be here for deadline.

The one person I have the most trouble reading on these forums ladies and gentleman! (Tip: HE ALWAYS READS SCUMMY TO ME)

[Galzria]

Tables!  You can run non-mafia games later!  Get in here and give us your thoughts before the deadline in 1 hour!  I'm only about 60% joking! 

But TTA and 7W are aaawwweeesssooommmeee!

[Archetype]

Have to zip back out, so Losevote: Insomniac. Won't be here for deadline.

The one person I have the most trouble reading on these forums ladies and gentleman! (Tip: HE ALWAYS READS SCUMMY TO ME)

The feeling's mutual, Insomnia .

[Archetype]

Have to zip back out, so Losevote: Insomniac. Won't be here for deadline.

The one person I have the most trouble reading on these forums ladies and gentleman! (Tip: HE ALWAYS READS SCUMMY TO ME)

The feeling's mutual, Insomniac.

FTFM

[Dsell]

May not be back before deadline. As it is, cayvie will be lynched by plurality, which I support. I doubt anything drastic will happen, but in case people want more discussion, I will not hammer to leave the thread open for ~20 more minutes.

[Galzria]

Goodnight everybody!

[shraeye]

Thread Locked

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.Final
LoseVote
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Dsell (1): Tables
{L-1}cayvie (5): Insomniac, jotheonah, Jorbles, Robz888, Voltgloss
Insomniac (1): Archetype

Not voting (2): Dsell, Galzria

WinVote
{Locked} jotheonah (6): Dsell, jotheonah, cayvie, Galzria, Jorbles, Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Axxle, Insomniac, Tables

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Now

[TheMunch]

As the sun sets and the bickering dies to a close, you all notice a small pidgey off away from the crowd.  "Pidgey!" you all shout but she doesn't even acknowledge your presence.  "That traitor must be guilty... she wont even make eye contact!  Psyduck says, "I got this" and looks as confusingly as he can at Pidgey.  Its too much for her to bear.  She looks over: "Oh yeah, I didn't kill our master.  Sorry for the confusion."  The Companion RoleJailStopKeeper Pidgey killed itself in its own confusion.

What? PSYDUCK is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your PSYDUCK has evolved into GOLDUCK!

Please submit all night actions by 7pm Thursday Jan 10th.

Night 2 Start!!

[TheMunch]

You wake up.  Its quiet.  Too quiet.  But what is missing?! Its the snoring serenade of the traitor Sleeper Agent Snorlax!  But his body hid something much more intriguing.  It was the Companion Time delayed Jack of All Trades Totodile, whose lifeless corpse was left rummaging through TheMunch's backpack.  Remaining in Totodiles clutches were TheMunch's items.  What strange powers those items possessed we may never know.

What? HAUNTER is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your HAUNTER has evolved into GENGAR!
What? SHELLGON is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your SHELLGON has evolved into SALAMANCE!

Day 3 START!!

[Galzria]

Same as yesterday, who targeted me?

[Insomniac]

Same as yesterday, who targeted me?

Nope.

[Dsell]

Same as yesterday, who targeted me?

Not I.

[Galzria]

Same as yesterday, who targeted me?

Scratch that - it won't matter.

I was targeted by two moves last night:

Rage
Body Slam

I checked the thread for move claims to see who that was. Rage was Voltgloss, I left him alone. Body Slam wasn'tclaimed. I bited (bit, but "bited" is more flavorful) that Pokemon.

While Munch was writing the flavor I googled the move and saw Snorlax learned it, so I'm not surprised by his dying. I'm also glad to see he was scum.

And there is the full extent of my power.

Level 1: Random PGO. I can randomly kill and target one person who targets me.
Level 2: PGO: I learn the names off all moves targeting me. I can kill one.
Level 3: Super-PGO: I learn the moves and player name of all people targeting me. I can kill one.

By move claiming yesterday I got to "level up" without actually leveling up. Further, this is why I claimed D1 not to want to be winvoted - because I essentially became a VT. Scum couldn't kill me while doctored, and if a cop targeted me I couldn't risk killing him. So I basically wouldn't be able to activate.

[Galzria]

Joth: Did you cop scum?

[jotheonah]

Well yes.

Unfortunately, I copped the same scum you killed. FML.

I can confirm that Body Slam was Jorble's move though. His other one was Rest.

[Tables]

I did not.

I have a lot of things I want to talk about regarding yesterday, but right now I'm watching a live speedrun, so... give me some time.

PPE: Joth, did anything else happen to you last night?

[jotheonah]

Not that I know of.

Galz, are you a bulletproof PGO? That seems really strong.

[Galzria]

Not that I know of.

Galz, are you a bulletproof PGO? That seems really strong.

No, why should I be?

[Galzria]

Well yes.

Unfortunately, I copped the same scum you killed. FML.

I can confirm that Body Slam was Jorble's move though. His other one was Rest.

I thought you were an alignment cop now, not a role cop?

[jotheonah]

No, I'm both now. Alignment copping got added on when I levelled.

I just assumed the thing that Jorbles targeted you with was a nightkill and you seem to still be alive. What do you think Body Slam did?

[Insomniac]

So on another line of thought.

Tables, jotheonah and Myself are all fully evolved. So IF we use the win vote on any of the three of us, its ONLY night protection. However if we use it on someone outside of the 3 of us we might evolve scum and that could be bad, but the likliehood we hit town makes it a pretty decent chance.

Are we thinking that it should be used for protection or should it be used to evolve a townie. Perhaps Galz as his ability is kinda useless now that he's outted his moves? He's seemed the most town to me over the course of all the game days. But if we trust Jo maybe we should keep winvoting the cop.


Seems a bit convinient he copped dead scum though.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 3.1
LoseVote

Not voting (7): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

WinVote

Not voting (7): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 22nd at 8pm (forum time)

[Galzria]

No, I'm both now. Alignment copping got added on when I levelled.

I just assumed the thing that Jorbles targeted you with was a nightkill and you seem to still be alive. What do you think Body Slam did?

You think scum had two kills? What do you think killed Volt?

I suspect I live because of Rage. Maybe it was a bodyguard like effect? Can't see Volt using that though. Maybe it was a straight doctor and he simply saved me. No idea.

I need to reread something.

[Tables]

Okay, fair enough. Joth is scum, he visited Insomniac.

I'm a tracker.

Leer tracks someone.
If someone I tracked the night before visits someone tonight, then Scary Face gives me three names and they visited one of those three.
Double Team lets me track two people.

Night 1 I tracked Ashersky. He visited... someone, I forget, I can check if you want (but it wasn't Eevee, I remember that).
Night 2 I found out Ashersky didn't visit anyone (surprise!) and tried to track Jorbles, my main FoS, but got redirected to Joth, who visited Insomn.

[Tables]

Oh and obviously Losevote: Jotheonah

[Dsell]

Losevote: Jotheonah

Tables is clearly town.

[Galzria]

Okay, fair enough. Joth is scum, he visited Insomniac.

I'm a tracker.

Leer tracks someone.
If someone I tracked the night before visits someone tonight, then Scary Face gives me three names and they visited one of those three.
Double Team lets me track two people.

Night 1 I tracked Ashersky. He visited... someone, I forget, I can check if you want (but it wasn't Eevee, I remember that).
Night 2 I found out Ashersky didn't visit anyone (surprise!) and tried to track Jorbles, my main FoS, but got redirected to Joth, who visited Insomn.

This adds up with my thinking.

I just reread Joth and NOWHERE did he say he got BOTH types of investigation after leveling up. It was always "Fling is alignment cop".

Now, maybe the fates are conspiring against him, but I was as vocal as could be yesterday about concern over Joth, and now everything falls against him.

Joth, if you're town, I'm sorry. I don't think you did anything wrong here, it's just that nothing adds up in your favor. Losevote: Jotheonah.

Not only did you know Snorlax's moves (which I don't think you should), your question about "how are you alive" sounded like it was genuine confusion. "BP PGO? That's awfully powerful"... It just sounds like defeatist scum who thought their kill should be dead.

[jotheonah]

Well this is odd.

Obviously I really did cop Jorbles.

But even if I were a scum role cop (?) pretending to be a cop ... why would I investigate someone and claim to have investigated someone else? Why wouldn't I just investigate who I said I investigated?

Or do you think I did something else to Insom?

I really thought Tables was town, but I guess I was wrong. I suppose a 1-for-1 with the cop is worth it for scum at this point since FTC is basically gg.

Losevote: Tables

[shraeye]

Vote Count 3.2
LoseVote
{L-1}jotheonah (3): Tables, Dsell, Galzria
Tables (1): Jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888

WinVote

Not voting (7): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 22nd at 8pm (forum time)

[jotheonah]

lynching the cop seems like bad play here, just saying.

Why would evolving make me LOSE abilities? That doesn't make sense. I assumed it was implied that my powers would get better when they evolved, not just different.

[Tables]

Okay so regarding yesterday. Volt asked a few good questions about me, in particular my activity at the end of both days. I don't think it's really going to matter now though.

At the end of day 1, I saw the amount of activity, and it scared me, trying to digest that without a proper set of notes? No thanks. When I actually got around to rereading, day was over.

Day 2, I genuinely was going out when I made that post, and the activity had only started shortly before while I was at uni. Also I hadn't seen the deadline on mod posts, and was working on it being 2 weeks from the day start - which would be Wednesday evening, hopefully giving me time to catch up. I was wrong, and stupid.

Volt made a comment in post 774 basically about, a Cayvie lynch would shed some light on my alignment. Unfortunately Volt is dead, but I wanted to ask him why he thought this. I had backed off on Cayvie by mid day-2 based on, her responses seemed more like an inability to defend herself instead of being actually scummy. So yeah.

Speedruns starting again so if I missed something, sorry.

[jotheonah]

I suspect I live because of Rage. Maybe it was a bodyguard like effect? Can't see Volt using that though. Maybe it was a straight doctor and he simply saved me. No idea.

Straight doctor seems unlikely - if we had a doctor they should have claimed at some point when we discussion FTC, right?

I hadn't thought of Bodyguard, Rage sounds like it could be that, moreso than another protective effect.

[Tables]

Well this is odd.

Obviously I really did cop Jorbles.

But even if I were a scum role cop (?) pretending to be a cop ... why would I investigate someone and claim to have investigated someone else? Why wouldn't I just investigate who I said I investigated?

Or do you think I did something else to Insom?

I really thought Tables was town, but I guess I was wrong. I suppose a 1-for-1 with the cop is worth it for scum at this point since FTC is basically gg.

Losevote: Tables

I don't really need to argue with you, but this post is very much clutching at straws with half truths you should be able to answer.
You role makes a lot more sense as scum than town. Why have move names as a first stage, not just a normal cop? Presumably if you're telling the (half-truth) you've just upgraded to a full stalker, finding out everyone's move effects. And that seems the more logical progression from your moves anyway.

Not telling the truth about who you investigated means you have more information about people than others think you do. This lets you make a claim without needing to give away what you know (or so you thought). Or, of course, you could be lying about your role, which is also believable.

And 1-1 with the cop being good for scum? Definitely no. Scum are almost certainly down to 2 members, possible even 1, that's not going to end well. Even if I were to be lynched today, well, I think town are still in a stronger position, as you'd die tomorrow. Of course, town's position is even better if you're lynched first as I'm pretty close to clear and scum are likely down to 1 (or we just win, maybe).

[jotheonah]

This is, and I hope will be seen as, a desperate bid by scum!Tables to talk the town into lynching their cop, because he KNOWS that FTC will work. Town has a cop. Town has a protective ability they can use over and over again.

They got together in their QT last night and they said "Crap. Town can FTC and NL their way to victory here, we have to take a chance to get the cop out of the picture." SO they traded in on Table's (largely unearned) towncred, and they're taking a gamble that you all will lynch me over him.

Obviously that's a really bad idea.

Galz, I don't know if you're his partner or just being led astray here, but try and think how dumb you'll feel to be part of the town that lynched their claimed cop in a setup where FTC was viable.

[Tables]

I think we both know who sounds desperate here...

[Tables]

Oh and also, assuming that I am scum and I have a partner (else I'm just insane), why would the one with a fully evolved pokemon be the one suiciding against the cop, not the other (unless my partner is Insomn)?

[Insomniac]

Guys I could hammer but if we hammer doesn't the day end or do we still get discussion and the chance to winvote?

[Insomniac]

Nope seems we still get time to winvote/discuss. Should I hammer then, Jo if you ARE town what did you do to me?

[Tables]

I personally have no objections to hammering, but other town members might. Day won't end as we'll have to winvote as well.

Also either I'm being stupid and missed the 3rd vote, or we're only at 2/4 for the hammer. Considering I'm tired and should be in bed, probably the former.

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 3.2
LoseVote
{L-1}jotheonah (3): Tables, Dsell, Galzria
Tables (1): Jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, Insomniac, Robz888

WinVote

Not voting (7): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 22nd at 8pm (forum time)

[Robz888]

I would also lose-hammer Joth. Just caught up.

[Insomniac]

Good enough for me

LoseVote: Jotheonah

[shraeye]

LoseVote Locked

Vote Count 3.3
LoseVote
{Locked}jotheonah (4): Tables, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac
Tables (1): Jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, Robz888

WinVote

Not voting (7): Archetype, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 22nd at 8pm (forum time)

[Insomniac]

Townie Galz is townie

WinVote: Galzria

[Dsell]

Townie Galz is townie

WinVote: Galzria

Why Galz? I mean, yes he is townie but it seems like the somewhat safer thing to do now is to winvote Tables. Besides, Galz can get a revenge kill if they try to take him out, right? Seems like he'd be able to figure out who was scum from their role descriptions/who was lying/etc. But guaranteeing that an investigator, Tables, stays arounds, seems almost like a no-brainer.

[jotheonah]

Well, good job tables. I still think town can win this if you lynch him tomorrow.

I hope you all enjoy going down in f.ds history as the town that got talked into lynching their cop when they had a built in, unstoppable doctor power.

[Galzria]

There's no proof you're the cop. Nothing about your claim goes in your favor. And the very fact that with the Winvote we DO have unstoppable Doctoring power means that if you're fakeclaiming, you would never get caught. The absolute safest thing for town to do is to lynch you. The trifecta of facts that:

1) Tables "watched" you do something you claimed not to have done.
2) You "claim" to have investigated now-dead-scum
3) Your newly claimed set of powers doesn't match what you claimed yesterday

all add up to you being far and away the most likely scum here. If you flip town? I honestly won't even feel terrible about it. This is the right decision.

[Tables]

I would like to be protected again, even though it does waste the XP, but I guess it's possibly worth it. At this point I guess it's pretty clear we don't have a cop for precisely this reason, but now I'm REALLY quite good at my job, I guess - I can track 2/5 other remaining players tonight, and even though I can't get 100% guilties or 100% clears (who knows what kind of ninja abilities scum might have), I can get a good indication.

I'm also happy to winvote Galz, because well two scum deaths, that's pretty good. I'm still cautious about him being some kind of Serial Killer, but, eh, you always have to be cautious in RMM, it's virtually impossible to have 100% reads.

[Galzria]

I would like to be protected again, even though it does waste the XP, but I guess it's possibly worth it. At this point I guess it's pretty clear we don't have a cop for precisely this reason, but now I'm REALLY quite good at my job, I guess - I can track 2/5 other remaining players tonight, and even though I can't get 100% guilties or 100% clears (who knows what kind of ninja abilities scum might have), I can get a good indication.

I'm also happy to winvote Galz, because well two scum deaths, that's pretty good. I'm still cautious about him being some kind of Serial Killer, but, eh, you always have to be cautious in RMM, it's virtually impossible to have 100% reads.

I actually oppose winvoting you - although I don't want to winvote myself either here since it effectively eliminates any chance I have of catching and killing scum. The reason I don't want to winvote you is that IF Joth flips town, then your claim to have watched him target Insomniac is bunk. I don't EXPECT that to happen, but I don't want to winvote you in case it does.

Now, I also don't want to level up scum if scum is elsewhere either. So if I have my count right, Insomniac would be safe. He's at max evolutions already - and IF Joth visited him last night, then I don't see it as being likely that Insomniac is scum.

So I'm thinking that a Winvote: Insomniac is probably best - although I'm open to discussion.

[jotheonah]

WHy is it so unlikely that I investigated Jorbles? He was the single biggest enigma in the game thanks to his post restriction.

[Galzria]

WHy is it so unlikely that I investigated Jorbles? He was the single biggest enigma in the game thanks to his post restriction.

I think that as an alignment cop, you would've investigated me or Robz out of desire to know if we were on your team - or Voltgloss out of a desire to not be mislead by a strong scum player. I don't think that it's impossible for you to have copped Jorbles - I just don't honestly think that it would've been your - Jotheonah's - first choice here.

[jotheonah]

I guess it's too late now anyway. But FoS insomniac for hammering before the whole town even posted!

[Insomniac]

Hmm while I'm obviously ok being the win vote as probably tables or myself did tonight if we aren't winvoted. And I see the reasons to not winvote Galz. Hmm I'm not sure I'm comfortable win voting tables because he could be scum if Jo isn't and since 2 have died every night there could be an sk.

[Robz888]

So I'm not going to winvote Tables, in case we got this wrong. Gotta be Galzria or Insomniac. Not sure yet.

[Dsell]

This feels like MXI, where we basically cannot lose at this point. Except that we screwed up MXI so we just need to not screw up here.

I really REALLY don't think we got this wrong and I want to keep investigative (Tables apparently) alive, but I can go for Insomniac if we think that's better. Not willing to do Galz since that sorta defeats the point of his ability.

[Dsell]

And when I say we "screwed up" MXI...we still won, we just made a lot of mistakes along the way. Let's not make those mistakes here.

[Robz888]

This feels like MXI, where we basically cannot lose at this point. Except that we screwed up MXI so we just need to not screw up here.

I really REALLY don't think we got this wrong and I want to keep investigative (Tables apparently) alive, but I can go for Insomniac if we think that's better. Not willing to do Galz since that sorta defeats the point of his ability.

Yeah, I don't think we should do Tables, I'm not that sold on it yet.

So winvote: Insomniac then.

[Dsell]

Robz, are you the last scum?

[Robz888]

Robz, are you the last scum?

No. Are you?

[Dsell]

Robz, are you the last scum?

No. Are you?

Certainly not. But why are you to be believed?

[Robz888]

I see what you're driving at. There aren't that many people left.

So it's you then, huh? You're trying to get out in front of this.

[shraeye]

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

I invite players to reread the rules; and recall that "Pokemon that has been evolved" is a different choice of words than "winner".

[Robz888]

Robz, are you the last scum?

No. Are you?

Certainly not. But why are you to be believed?

I think I killed Eevee, that's why you should believe me.

[Insomniac]

So winvoting me is valid but does nothing.

[Dsell]

Robz, are you the last scum?

No. Are you?

Certainly not. But why are you to be believed?

I think I killed Eevee, that's why you should believe me.

Have you mentioned this anywhere else? I don't remember hearing about this.

[Robz888]

Robz, are you the last scum?

No. Are you?

Certainly not. But why are you to be believed?

I think I killed Eevee, that's why you should believe me.

Have you mentioned this anywhere else? I don't remember hearing about this.

No, I was going to explain it, but Galzria told me not to yesterday.

I used "Fling" on Eevee on Night 1. What happens is I give a piece of fruit to someone. They choose whether to eat it. Neither of us know what it does.

I assume Eevee ate the fruit and it killed him. That, or not eating the fruit is what kills you, I'm not sure.

I didn't give anybody any fruit last night. If I had known I was a Vigilante fruit-giver, I wouldn't have given it to Eevee, either. Luckily, that worked out.

[Dsell]

Also, blah.

It sucks a bit, then, that Insom got the random evolutions. Oh well.

Also, if we make two assumptions, I believe the worst we can possibly get is a stalemate:

1. Galz is Town.

2. There is only one mafia left (After lynching Jo/Tables).

If all members of the town NEVER target Galz for any reason whatsoever, then the last mafia can't risk targeting Galz with the NK (or anything else) because Galz will kill them, ending the game with a town win. Even if we never lynch scum, 1 scum vs Galz would be a stalemate, since if scum targets Galz for the kill, then scum dies and loses the game too.

Now, those are kinda big assumptions. But I believe, individually, they are both very likely.

Whew. Just came back from the logic thread and ready to work out some grey matter.

[Dsell]

My theory is also interrupted by redirectors.

Still, I don't even think it will come to that, I think we will just find the last mafia and lynch them before we're in lylo.

[Dsell]

Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of Galz' role.

Galz, do you get to retaliate against anyone who targets you, or is it only someone who targets you with an "attack" or non-NK night action?

[Galzria]

Unless I am misunderstanding the nature of Galz' role.

Galz, do you get to retaliate against anyone who targets you, or is it only someone who targets you with an "attack" or non-NK night action?

I counter moves.

[Galzria]

Also, why the assumptions that Joth is a Companion? If he's mafia, that's 3. Isn't that the standard number in a 13 player setup?

[Dsell]

Nah, this is a worst-case scenario. I'm hoping the game will be over after today. I'd say there's at MOST one more.

So you definitely, for sure cannot vengekill when the NK is directed towards you?

How about as Hydreigon?

[Dsell]

One more mafia after we lynch Joth, that is. I think it's near-certain that he's scum.

[Robz888]

Nah, this is a worst-case scenario. I'm hoping the game will be over after today. I'd say there's at MOST one more.

So you definitely, for sure cannot vengekill when the NK is directed towards you?

How about as Hydreigon?

You really want that cleared up, huh!

[Dsell]

Nah, this is a worst-case scenario. I'm hoping the game will be over after today. I'd say there's at MOST one more.

So you definitely, for sure cannot vengekill when the NK is directed towards you?

How about as Hydreigon?

You really want that cleared up, huh!

Yes of course! It is the difference between a guaranteed at-least-stalemate and no such guarantee. And I'm totally willing to winvote him if he is able to do that as Hydreigon.

[Dsell]

Galz, I just went back and read your claim. Do you have clarification from the mods that "targeting you" (as your claim puts it) does not include NKs? It would appear that Hydreigon, at least, learns the name of the player and ALL of their moves and it doesn't appear to have a restriction that only people who target you with a move can be killed.

So, Winvote: Galz?

I'd still like clarification, though. Btw, I'm totally changing my tune on winvoting Galz because of the theory I posted above. It would appear to ME from reading his PM, that if we winvote him now, town can guarantee at least a tie in this game.

[Galzria]

From reading my PM? What?

[Dsell]

Your claim, rather. I assume that part was basically verbatim, though?

[Galzria]

Same as yesterday, who targeted me?

Scratch that - it won't matter.

I was targeted by two moves last night:

Rage
Body Slam

I checked the thread for move claims to see who that was. Rage was Voltgloss, I left him alone. Body Slam wasn'tclaimed. I bited (bit, but "bited" is more flavorful) that Pokemon.

While Munch was writing the flavor I googled the move and saw Snorlax learned it, so I'm not surprised by his dying. I'm also glad to see he was scum.

And there is the full extent of my power.

Level 1: Random PGO. I can randomly kill and target one person who targets me.
Level 2: PGO: I learn the names off all moves targeting me. I can kill one.
Level 3: Super-PGO: I learn the moves and player name of all people targeting me. I can kill one.

By move claiming yesterday I got to "level up" without actually leveling up. Further, this is why I claimed D1 not to want to be winvoted - because I essentially became a VT. Scum couldn't kill me while doctored, and if a cop targeted me I couldn't risk killing him. So I basically wouldn't be able to activate.

This? No, it's not verbatim. It's the general translation though.

[Dsell]

Ok, well it seems pretty important to know exactly what Hydreigon does unless we're all completely sure we've already won.

[Galzria]

It's close enough to accurate. I don't even know if the move they use must be on me. It says I receive a list of all Pokemon that target me each night, as well as the move they used. I may select one from that list and kill them.

It says all who target me.

[Dsell]

"All who target me" suggests to me that it includes NKs. But, I would love mod-clarification on whether a NK counts as targeting a player.

Anyway let's just winvote you and see if we won already.

[Robz888]

I am willing winvote Galz I guess. Why do you think that guarantees a tie?

[Galzria]

To be clear - I WILL kill anybody that targets me. Otherwise I sit there twiddling my thumbs.

[Dsell]

Yeah, IF YOU ARE TOWN, DO NOT TARGET GALZRIA FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE GAME.

Ahem.

[Dsell]

I am willing winvote Galz I guess. Why do you think that guarantees a tie?

Did you follow my reasoning in my post on the last page? If I am right about how Galz' power works, the last scum can never NK Galz without getting themselves killed too.

[Galzria]

I am willing winvote Galz I guess. Why do you think that guarantees a tie?

Assume it gets to lylo with me, scum, X.

Now assume we mislynch X. Game usually ends, right? But that's because scum can just NK the final player.

But if they try to NK me, I would (hopefully) be able to kill them as well, forcing a stalemate. They can't target me, so we live Happily Ever After.

[Robz888]

I am willing winvote Galz I guess. Why do you think that guarantees a tie?

Assume it gets to lylo with me, scum, X.

Now assume we mislynch X. Game usually ends, right? But that's because scum can just NK the final player.

But if they try to NK me, I would (hopefully) be able to kill them as well, forcing a stalemate. They can't target me, so we live Happily Ever After.

Gotcha.

[Robz888]

winvote: galzria

[Tables]

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

I invite players to reread the rules; and recall that "Pokemon that has been evolved" is a different choice of words than "winner".

Umm okay, this implied otherwise to me at the time, I said so, and no comment was made, not entirely happy with that, but whatever.

In this case we definitely don't want to winvote me or Insomn. Incidentally what role Joth flips will possibly clear Insomn for all intents and purposes, which would be good, and give us two pretty much clears (one of us probably dies but, you know, that happens).

[Robz888]

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

I invite players to reread the rules; and recall that "Pokemon that has been evolved" is a different choice of words than "winner".

Umm okay, this implied otherwise to me at the time, I said so, and no comment was made, not entirely happy with that, but whatever.

In this case we definitely don't want to winvote me or Insomn. Incidentally what role Joth flips will possibly clear Insomn for all intents and purposes, which would be good, and give us two pretty much clears (one of us probably dies but, you know, that happens).

Joth said you were a liar, Tables. So isn't there zero ambiguity in what Jo will flip from your perspective?

[Archetype]

I actually realy want to be winvoted. Not because of the Doctoring, I don't need that, but because my 2nd stage power is just so good.

I don't really want to claim, it's more powerful if I don't, but I will if people insist.

[shraeye]

Before anything becomes a problem.

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 3.4
LoseVote
{Locked}jotheonah (4): Tables, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac
Tables (1): Jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, Robz888

WinVote
Galzria (3): Insomniac, Dsell, Robz888
Insomniac (1): Galzria

Not voting (3): Archetype, jotheonah, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, January 22nd at 8pm (forum time)

[Dsell]

I'd consider that tomorrow, Archetype, but I think that Galzria really ought to be the winvote today. I honestly think Town will win either way, though.

We will need to find someone to winvote tomorrow, though, and you aren't out of the question. I still don't feel the need to be winvoted at any point, especially given recent events. That may change at some point, but I kinda doubt it.

[Archetype]

I could just gain some XP through deaths too. I really only need to get to my second stage.

[Tables]

(Question for mod: can we winvote someone who is already fully evolved?).

Yes

Mod question: Is it valid to winvote someone who has reached their final evolution? Will the be protected from nightkills?

See the above answer along with the opening post.

6.  During the night following a battle, the pokemon that has been evolved will be protected from night kills.  During the night, kills may resolve on other players. 

I invite players to reread the rules; and recall that "Pokemon that has been evolved" is a different choice of words than "winner".

Umm okay, this implied otherwise to me at the time, I said so, and no comment was made, not entirely happy with that, but whatever.

In this case we definitely don't want to winvote me or Insomn. Incidentally what role Joth flips will possibly clear Insomn for all intents and purposes, which would be good, and give us two pretty much clears (one of us probably dies but, you know, that happens).

Joth said you were a liar, Tables. So isn't there zero ambiguity in what Jo will flip from your perspective?

Keyword is role. If he's a stalker, then Insomn is essentially clear. If he's something that might target scum or town, not so much. If he's something that only wants to target scum, he's scum.

[jotheonah]

Winvote: Galzria

[Dsell]

Jo, is there anyone left or have we won?

[jotheonah]

THere are at least 5 more scum. Each more terrible than the last. Also a serial killer. Made of cheese.

[Dsell]

Gee thanks.

[shraeye]

WinVote Locked

Vote Count 3.Final
LoseVote
{Locked}jotheonah (4): Tables, Dsell, Galzria, Insomniac
Tables (1): Jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, Robz888

WinVote
{Locked}Galzria (4): Insomniac, Dsell, Robz888, jotheonah
Insomniac (1): Galzria

Not voting (2): Archetype, Tables

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Now

[shraeye]

Thread Locked

[TheMunch]

"I took a good long look at Snorlax," Golduck said, "and while I wasn't noticing him dying I found out what you already know."

"No, you didn't!" Salamence replied indignantly.  "I was watching you and you weren't looking at Snorlax!  You were looking at Gengar!"

Who watches the watchers, indeed.  "So who wants to do the honors?" You all shout.  "Who wants to kill that tretcherous Golduck, for fooling us so."

"Zweilous!!"  You all shout.  "I really just want to see you with three heads."

And so Zweilous, resigned to solemn duty, bit the traitor Move Scholar Golduck's head clean off.  "And now we can rest."

What? ZWEILOUS is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your ZWEILOUS has evolved into HYDREIGON!

Night 3 Start!!

Night Actions are due by Sunday Jan 13 at 1pm

[shraeye]

I hate continually making this reminder, but I want to be as clear as possible here.  A WinVoted Pokemon is ONLY protected at night if they actually evolved.

[TheMunch]

And with a much needed rest you wake up.  The group is already bickering, not missing a beat from yesterday.  But there is a voice suspiciously missing from the commotion.  The Companion Propagandist Scyther has died.  Maybe he was eaten by his lover (praying mantis jokes!) or perhaps it was something much more sinister...

No pokemon evolved in the night.

Day 4 Start!!!

[Tables]

Okay so interesting, not one of the two people I expected to die last night. I tracked someone to DSell, so who wants to claim that? If you did visit him and don't claim it, I know you're scum for lying.

[Tables]

Also I need to go to bed, so, lol, that should give some time I guess. Also means I can be coherent again (we've seen the kind of mistakes I make when I'm tired)

[shraeye]

Vote Count 4.1
LoseVote

Not voting (5): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Robz888, Tables

WinVote

Not voting (5): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Robz888, Tables

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Friday, January 25th at 8pm forum time

[Galzria]

Okay so interesting, not one of the two people I expected to die last night. I tracked someone to DSell, so who wants to claim that? If you did visit him and don't claim it, I know you're scum for lying.

Tables is town. 100%. Scum!Tables would not have targeted me knowing I was telling the truth already. Town!Tables would've put his life on the line to potentially catch SK!Galz.

That reasoning is the only one that kept you alive last night. Otherwise I would've bit you so hard.

[Tables]

Actually, that's not true. I think DSell was a driver, or at least a reverse-marytr, and he redirected my attempt on him to you. This fits with what he said about his role looking scummy, and the role name fits as well.

That said Galz is about 99.5% confirmed town. Scum!Galz would have almost certainly killed me. The only plausible way Galz is scum is if he decided to NK (he didn't visit anyone BTW), DSell and me both targeted him and he decided to kill DSell over me, and then confirm me town, which seems... very, very tough to believe. Oh, this does assume only one scum left, but a 5 vs. 8 ratio (or 4 v. 1 v. seems pretty unlikely.

Yes I did just turn my computer back on to post here. This game is pretty exciting now, and I was hoping I'd have someone to catch in the lie already. This game is kinda my mafia swan song, I've decided mafia doesn't really entertain me enough any more, so I was hoping I could end it in a really awesome (albeit very lucky) way.

[Insomniac]

I think it's interesting that neither I nor tables were the kill target. Considering that they know I'm town and I think tables too AND were both fully evolved

[Tables]

That is the thing that interests me. Perhaps... ah, if I'm right about DSell... maybe that's why, if they knew he'd protect one of us. Or it could have been someone that didn't think it through entirely? I mean it's a single mafia member now (probably), so it's not unreasonable that he kinda just panicked and shot someone, or worse, didn't submit an order (although that requires an alternate explanation for DSell's death).

[Archetype]

I'm assuming one Mafia left.

Should we all fullclaim? See if we can catch Mafia in a lie? Seems like move names have matched pretty accurately so far. I'd be willing to go first.

[Robz888]

I think Tables is town. I think Galzria is town. Which means either Insomniac or Archetype is the last scum?

[Archetype]

Well there is 5 of us.

Tables is most likely Town
It'd be crazy if Galzria wasn't Town

So that leaves me, Insom, and Robz.

I can cross my name off that list, but you guys can't, so I'm leaving it there.

I have some theories, but I want to know if the massclaim is ago before I disclose them. I feel that Galz should be in charge of it considering he's most likely to be Town, but Tables works too.

[Tables]

Okay looks like nobody has claimed to have targeted DSell, which doesn't surprise me, given I was lying out of my teeth when I said I tracked someone to him. I think, actually, the mafia may have no killed. Galz, did you kill DSell?

[Galzria]

Okay looks like nobody has claimed to have targeted DSell, which doesn't surprise me, given I was lying out of my teeth when I said I tracked someone to him. I think, actually, the mafia may have no killed. Galz, did you kill DSell?

Nope, I claimed up front what I saw:

You targeted me, and I choose not to kill you.

[Tables]

Ah, hm, well then. In that case, I can clear... DSell? That doesn't help!

Full night results, because I don't think I'm going to trick scum any more: I targeted Robz and DSell. My targets were changed to Galz and DSell. Neither visited anyone last night. Joth also visited nobody (Apparently people I track tend to die shortly after).

Do we think it's time for a massclaim? I think it is.

[Robz888]

Ah, hm, well then. In that case, I can clear... DSell? That doesn't help!

Full night results, because I don't think I'm going to trick scum any more: I targeted Robz and DSell. My targets were changed to Galz and DSell. Neither visited anyone last night. Joth also visited nobody (Apparently people I track tend to die shortly after).

Do we think it's time for a massclaim? I think it is.

I will full claim when you tell me to.

[Tables]

I'd like to hear from Galz first. I'd rather not do it if he thinks it's a bad idea, but if he says to, I think we should go for it.

[Robz888]

I'd like to hear from Galz first. I'd rather not do it if he thinks it's a bad idea, but if he says to, I think we should go for it.

I vote yes, we do it. Don't see why not.

[Tables]

Think your fakeclaim is solid then, Robz ?

[Insomniac]

I'd like to hear from Galz first. I'd rather not do it if he thinks it's a bad idea, but if he says to, I think we should go for it.

Nows as good a time as any

[Robz888]

Think your fakeclaim is solid then, Robz ?

Hellz yes. Been ready with it for weeks!

[Galzria]

I think we should massclaim, and then lynch Robz.

This is my reasoning:

Actually, as I'm typing this up...

Hmm.

Scum expected me to kill Tables last night. It's the only reason they redirected him to me.

We have two lynches, and the last scum is between Ins/Arch/Robz.

When scum targeted Tables, they probably couldn't redirect both - and even if they could they wanted to maximize the number of unknowns left.

But the question then is... Why redirect from Robz and not Dsell? Why not redirect both to me? No, I think they could only redirect one.

And they choose to redirect from Robz and kill Dsell instead of vice-versa. If scum is Archetype/Insomniac, then it wouldn't have mattered which they did.

....

Blaah.

OH!

I've got an idea!

First, everybody needs to claim. Full claim. All powers and what they do. We may be able to guarantee a win by tomorrow.

[Robz888]

Right now, I have Fling: I give someone a Berry, and they choose whether to eat it. Neither of us knows what it does. I used Fling on Eevee on Night 1.

When I level up, I get Bone Club and Retaliate.

Bone Club: I give someone a Berry, and I force them not to eat it.
Retaliate: I give someone a Berry, and I force them to eat it.

[Galzria]

Tables, you can watch two people, correct?

[Tables]

Tables, you can watch two people, correct?

Track, but yes.

Robz, who did you target N2+3?

[Robz888]

Tables, you can watch two people, correct?

Track, but yes.

Robz, who did you target N2+3?

No one. I presumed my Berry had the power to kill people, and I am of the opinion that vigilantes should basically never shoot.

[Insomniac]

Right now, I have Fling: I give someone a Berry, and they choose whether to eat it. Neither of us knows what it does. I used Fling on Eevee on Night 1.

When I level up, I get Bone Club and Retaliate.

Bone Club: I give someone a Berry, and I force them not to eat it.
Retaliate: I give someone a Berry, and I force them to eat it.

"Neither of us"

Uhh who you been talking to Robz?

[Tables]

In a RMM? Why are you of that opinion? Why did you not target the person who was winvoted D2/3?

Insomn, I know you probably did yesterday, but what's your claim?

[Robz888]

Right now, I have Fling: I give someone a Berry, and they choose whether to eat it. Neither of us knows what it does. I used Fling on Eevee on Night 1.

When I level up, I get Bone Club and Retaliate.

Bone Club: I give someone a Berry, and I force them not to eat it.
Retaliate: I give someone a Berry, and I force them to eat it.

"Neither of us"

Uhh who you been talking to Robz?

Neither me nor the person to whom I gave the fruit. Nice try, though.

[Galzria]

Right now, I have Fling: I give someone a Berry, and they choose whether to eat it. Neither of us knows what it does. I used Fling on Eevee on Night 1.

When I level up, I get Bone Club and Retaliate.

Bone Club: I give someone a Berry, and I force them not to eat it.
Retaliate: I give someone a Berry, and I force them to eat it.

"Neither of us"

Uhh who you been talking to Robz?

"Obvious Answer -Here- Retracted Since My Name Is Not Robz888"

[Galzria]

Insomniac. Fullclaim. Now.

[Robz888]

In a RMM? Why are you of that opinion? Why did you not target the person who was winvoted D2/3?

Insomn, I know you probably did yesterday, but what's your claim?

I am of that opinion in all games, because the vigilantes seem to most often hit town. I like to look at this way: A vig power is something to use if you either have a confirmed scum for some reason, or you NEED to take the shot in order to win. It's like an insurance policy. But we've had too many games where Vigs blow it for town. See M-VIII and M-XII for the most infuriating examples of this.

Why would I target the person who was winvoted? We don't want that person to die. If my fruit actually succeeded, that would be pretty awful.

[Insomniac]

Night Shade -- Pick another Pokemon to watch you will be told the names of any companion aligned Pokemon targeting this player

Dream Eater-- Pick another Pokemon to watch, they forfeit their night action if they are companion.

Nightmare--Pick another Pokemon to watch, you will be told the names of any non-companion Pokemon targetting this player


Night 1 I used Night Shade on Joth and got "Insomniac"
Night 2 I took no action because I didn't want to potentially roleblock a townie.
Night 3 I targeted Archetype and got no result.

[Tables]

Insomn, why didn't you use Night Shade night 2 then?

[Insomniac]

Insomn, why didn't you use Night Shade night 2 then?

Because I was under the impression we only had access to our 'newest' move.

[Tables]

Hm, well, maybe. That makes sense.

[Archetype]

Do you want me to claim now, Tables?

[Galzria]

Do you want me to claim now, Tables?

You're the only person who hasn't, so yes.

[Tables]

Do you want me to claim now, Tables?

You're the only person who hasn't, so yes.

This

[Archetype]

Ok:

Role Name: Rock

Stage 1 (Harden): All night actions that target you are redirected to a random other Pokemon.

Stage 2 (Iron Defense): All night actions on you fail.

Stage 3: (Iron Defense/Metal Burst): Every night, you have a chance to kill each Pokemon that ended the day with a LoseVote on you.  This chance increases every time you are targeted at night; it starts at 0% on Day 1.

Have used Harden every single night.

I really want to get to Stage 2 so I become full Bulletproof and don't really care if I get to stage 3 or not. Metal Burst seems kind of suckish.

[Insomniac]

So an evolved archetype could kill a Galz?

[Archetype]

So an evolved archetype could kill a Galz?

?

[Insomniac]

Stage 2 (Iron Defense): All night actions on you fail.

Meaning that if you targeted Galz, and he tried to kill you he would fail. Thusly your kill would go through.

[Archetype]

So an evolved archetype could kill a Galz?

Oh wait, I guess I could if I were Scum.

Shoot Galz, he couldn't shoot me back.

Hm. Well I'm not Scum. But maybe it's better to not evolve...? If Scum targets me, they have a 25% chance of hitting themselves. So I don't think they would target me anyway.

[Archetype]

Ninja'd

[Archetype]

So an evolved archetype could kill a Galz?

Oh wait, I guess I could if I were Scum.

Shoot Galz, he couldn't shoot me back.

Hm. Well I'm not Scum. But maybe it's better to not evolve...? If Scum targets me, they have a 25% chance of hitting themselves. So I don't think they would target me anyway.

Even higher of a chance after today's lynch.

[Tables]

Okay, so, well the main thing I see here is no driver/general rediretor claim, which means there's no explanation for my action against Jorbles being redirected to Insomn night 2. And DSell onto Galz as well, that makes me wonder, I don't see DSell doing both of those (especially as I tracked him, so he'd have to do it without having actually targeted anyone).

Another question for Insomn, why didn't you target me? You'd have (in theory) found the cop, and thus known if someone was lying about me.

[Insomniac]

Okay, so, well the main thing I see here is no driver/general rediretor claim, which means there's no explanation for my action against Jorbles being redirected to Insomn night 2. And DSell onto Galz as well, that makes me wonder, I don't see DSell doing both of those (especially as I tracked him, so he'd have to do it without having actually targeted anyone).

Another question for Insomn, why didn't you target me? You'd have (in theory) found the cop, and thus known if someone was lying about me.

Should paragraph one "Jorbles to Insom" read "Jorbles to Joth" as you called joth a liar based on your result?

And as for the question for me. I reasoned that there was a decent chance one of you or I was dead. However that means mafia also would have reasoned that. So I thought ok well if I target Tables and he dies then I get this great news of who the scum is. If I die then it doesn't matter. This is role madness and there hadn't been a full claim though so I reasoned that there might be a doctor to protect one of us. So I decided to target Archetype hoping that the mafia would kill one of the less obvious targets. As it turns out they did, I just didn't pick the right one.

Based on what we now see as what archetype has claimed I now believe they picked Dsell because Archetype was scum.

[Tables]

Yes. It's so hard to actually find my results among 7 Wonders and Through the Ages PMs (like, my original role PM is on page like 10) so I mostly just wing it and accidentally type the wrong thing sometimes.

[Tables]

Oh and I'm referring to night 1. Should have said that.

[Archetype]

Out of the 2 of Robz/Insomniac, I think Insomniac is most likely Scum.

I think we should go back and look at the Robz, Insomniac, and I and our interactions with Eevee, jo, and Jorbles.

[Archetype]

Besides, Insomniac's Role Names do not match the Power of it. At all.

I suspected that about Jo, and it turned out he was scum.

[Insomniac]

Oh and I'm referring to night 1. Should have said that.

Ahh I was thinking that there was no chance scum would target you. So if multiple people targeted person X whom died. It was possible that I could get everyone to claim whom had targeted them and catch scum from not being in my list. Where as there was 0 chance of scum targeting you.

[Insomniac]

Besides, Insomniac's Role Names do not match the Power of it. At all.

I suspected that about Jo, and it turned out he was scum.

My names totally match. I watch you while you sleep eating your dreams roleblocks you.

That said I totally expected you to come after me after it became brutally obvious that evolving is the only way for you to win

LoseVote: Archetype

[Archetype]

Dream Eater-- Pick another Pokemon to watch, they forfeit their night action if they are companion.

I don't see the point of this power. It's only useful if you're scum.

You've been shifty all game, Insom. I'll be doing a reread over your interactions with confScums, but I still want to plant a vote here.

LoseVote: Insomniac

You wanna lynch me so you don't have an unkillable townie running around, don't ya? And like I said before, I don't really care if I level up anymore. Scum wouldn't kill me if they had the chance of it bouncing off and killing them.

[Tables]

Okay.

Joth's role was: traitor Move Scholar Golduck

So, that's probably a stalker I think, right? In which case I think we can be about 90% certain Insomn is town, because, what kind of stalker targets scum? But if I'm wrong and well, if Joth maybe boosted people's roles, then Insomn could still be scum. But considering he was going to name my moves... nah, that's not likely. Insomn for almost clear.

I think though realistically we can probably say, me and Galz are almost certain town, Insomn is very likely town, and the other two... less certain.

As long as there are no extra night kills tonight though, we could almost guarantee a town victory just by lynching say Robz today and Archetype tomorrow. Or, maybe the other way around (I don't like role immune Archetype, it scares me, and I wonder if he's actually also a SK).

[Archetype]

As long as there are no extra night kills tonight though, we could almost guarantee a town victory just by lynching say Robz today and Archetype tomorrow. Or, maybe the other way around (I don't like role immune Archetype, it scares me, and I wonder if he's actually also a SK).

...How would that work if I'm a SK? The kills don't add up.

[Insomniac]

If Archetype is scum he can level up by random kills which might let him get Galz. I'm willing to lynch Robz today but I really think we need to deal with archetype first.

[Tables]

Dream Eater-- Pick another Pokemon to watch, they forfeit their night action if they are companion.

I don't see the point of this power. It's only useful if you're scum.

Insomn hasn't been doing it right with his role, I think. Insomn is our cop, but he's not a normal cop. He watches someone, and any names he gets are clear to him. Third version works similarly, but instead of getting clears, he gets scum, which is of course a lot more powerful. The second power requires getting some info out of people. If they claim to have been blocked the following day, bam, cleared. If they claim to have used their power to full effect, bam, you've caught scum. His role is pretty powerful.

PPE: Galz, can you account for all the extra kills? If you can, well, Arch can still be scum. Type of scum doesn't really concern me that much, it was just kinda an obvservation that it seems like a neat SK protection like role.

[Robz888]

Losevote: Archetype.

Yeah i am like positive he is scum, and the strength of his powers are crazy. That said, I agree that tables, Galz and insomniac are all town for sure. So if you kill me it's not really a big deal as long as you go after arch next.

[Galzria]

I cannot account for Eevee.

D1: Lynch Town

N1: Town killed, Scum killed. (I activated, but it was random based on who targeted me - something I was not informed of).

D2: Lynch Town

N2: Town killed, Scim killed. (I had evolved, saw the moves targeting me, deduced it was Voltgloss and X, so bit X, which turned out to be Jorbles)

D3: Lynch Scum

N3: Town killed

In order for me to have killed Eevee, he would have needed to target me, something I cannot confirm happened.

I'm debating SK vs 4th Mafia.

If 4th Mafia, all kills are "accounted" for in some way. Eevee died to either myself or Robz.

If SK then it's likely Robz, but we're short a N2 kill. He claims not to have activated but it's possible he hit one of the two Pokemon that died that night.

I agree with your assessment that Insomniac could be our Cop... But why the strict negative utility second skill? It only Roleblocks town, correct?

Arche I don't know what to do with.

[Galzria]

Thing is, if there's a SK and it's NOT Robz, then we're missing a kill both N1 and N2. If it is Robz, we're only missing N2.

[Tables]

Okay, it definitely seems likey that there's not a SK to me. If there was then he's managed to not actually make a successful kill over three nights, which is unlikely.

Neither of Arch not Robz really leave me feeling very confident, but Arch's play seems a lot more panicked at this point, Robz even sounds complacent about being lynched. I think we probably want to lynch Arch first? After we have, we can discuss winvote assuming he wasn't scum (and assuming Munch doesn't just call game, of course).

[Tables]

I would hammer myself, but last time I did that I cost town game (lol). So Galz and Insomn, I'll hear you two first (and Galz can hammer if he wants)

[Galzria]

I would hammer myself, but last time I did that I cost town game (lol). So Galz and Insomn, I'll hear you two first (and Galz can hammer if he wants)

How confident would you say that Insomniac is the most likely town of the three?

Or how about this?

We lynch Arche.

We force Insomniac to target me - I'll do nothing to him.

You track Robz.
Robz should do nothing.

If Robz targets either me or Insomniac, you'll know.
If you die but I saw Insomniac target me, I'll know Robz is scum.

If I die and Robz did nothing you'll know Insomniac is scum.

Robz can't move without one of us knowing, and Insomniac can't target anybody but me.

Thoughts?

We should winvote either myself or you, Tables, under this scenario, even though it's pointless.

[Insomniac]

I would hammer myself, but last time I did that I cost town game (lol). So Galz and Insomn, I'll hear you two first (and Galz can hammer if he wants)

How confident would you say that Insomniac is the most likely town of the three?

Or how about this?

We lynch Arche.

We force Insomniac to target me - I'll do nothing to him.

You track Robz.
Robz should do nothing.

If Robz targets either me or Insomniac, you'll know.
If you die but I saw Insomniac target me, I'll know Robz is scum.

If I die and Robz did nothing you'll know Insomniac is scum.

Robz can't move without one of us knowing, and Insomniac can't target anybody but me.

Thoughts?

We should winvote either myself or you, Tables, under this scenario, even though it's pointless.

Sounds like a solid plan to me

[Tables]

Agreed. That's kinda what I was thinking. How confident am I? About 90%. The only way I see this going wrong is if you're scum, in which case you've played a pretty deep game, and I would applaud you post-game.
The only way I can see Insomn being scum is 1) Joth was bluffing about knowing my move names. I would have easily called him on this, so it seems unlikely.
2) Joth's second ability is totally different to his first, and the first wants to hit town and the second, scum. This also seems unlikely... OH! Unless he can say teach a move to a scummate that he's learnt. That's... plausible?

[Tables]

So actually less than 90% now I've presented myself a feasible case. Mmm.... 80%? I mean what I said is a lot less likely than a flat role learner, right?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.2

LoseVote

Archetype (2): Insomniac, Robz888
Insomniac (1): Archetype

Not voting (5): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Robz888, Tables

WinVote

Not voting (5): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Robz888, Tables

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Friday, January 25th at 8pm forum time

Just filling in for a bit...

[Insomniac]

Galz if you were fully honest in your claim the win vote HAS to be you.

[Tables]

Why does it matter? Whoever we winvote, gains nothing.

[Insomniac]

because this:
Level 3: Super-PGO: I learn the moves and player name of all people targeting me. I can kill one.

Will allow you to verify me, whom you and Tables have some small doubts about.

WinVote: Galzria

[TheMunch]

Thank you Ashersky for the vote counts while we step out for a bit.

[Tables]

Wait, isn't Galz already fully evolved? ... Oh my, you're right. Yeah, we should winvote Galz. Once we lock the losevote.

[Insomniac]

FWIW Tables I'm fine with you hammering.

[Galzria]

So actually less than 90% now I've presented myself a feasible case. Mmm.... 80%? I mean what I said is a lot less likely than a flat role learner, right?

Yeah. I would dig it up but I'm too lazy - but basically I saw Joth's claim as baloney the moment he made it, and pointed out that "Partial-Rolecop", "Muliple Partial-Rolecop" and "Multiple Full Rolecop" seemed a much more natural progression than he was suggesting his powers were.

I agree with this then. I'm still worried about.... Redacted. There's one tiny, itsy bitsy little wiggle room to make this confusing, but I'm not going to vocalize it.

I'm going to Hammerlosevote: Archetype, and Winvote: Tables.

Tables, go ahead and winvote yourself, any of those three can hammer it.

Insomniac: You must target me tonight. Failure to do so will be interpreted to be a confession of guilt.

Robz: You must do nothing tonight. Failure to do so will be interpreted to be a confession of guilt.

[Tables]

Why not winvote you, Galz?

[Tables]

And yeah, I think we're all aware things could go wrong here. I'm concerned about you shooting someone, Galz, for example. But I think, it's such a small concern compared to that I have about Archetype and Robz.

[Galzria]

I am fully evolved.

Evolved out of N1

Evolved from being winvoted yesterday.

[Tables]

That's... what I thought. But I check back and... humm. I must have not been paying enough attention. This is why we need the sig pokemon .

[Tables]

"I took a good long look at Snorlax," Golduck said, "and while I wasn't noticing him dying I found out what you already know."

"No, you didn't!" Salamence replied indignantly.  "I was watching you and you weren't looking at Snorlax!  You were looking at Gengar!"

Who watches the watchers, indeed.  "So who wants to do the honors?" You all shout.  "Who wants to kill that tretcherous Golduck, for fooling us so."

"Zweilous!!"  You all shout.  "I really just want to see you with three heads."

And so Zweilous, resigned to solemn duty, bit the traitor Move Scholar Golduck's head clean off.  "And now we can rest."

What? ZWEILOUS is evolving?
CONGRATULATIONS! Your ZWEILOUS has evolved into HYDREIGON!

Night 3 Start!!

Night Actions are due by Sunday Jan 13 at 1pm

Derp.

Okay, Insomn, Galz, any last things to say before we end things for today? Arch, any last thoughts to give us assuming you're flipping town?

[Insomniac]

If we stick to the plan we'll be fine. I also missed Galz evolving so I'm fine with Winvote: tables

[Galzria]

That's... what I thought. But I check back and... humm. I must have not been paying enough attention. This is why we need the sig pokemon .

Pfft. Fine. There's your Pokemon.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.3

LoseVote - Locked

Archetype (3): Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria
Insomniac (1): Archetype

Not voting (1):  Tables

WinVote

Tables (2): Galzria, Insomniac

Not voting (3): Archetype, Robz888, Tables

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Friday, January 25th at 8pm forum time

Just filling in for a bit...

[Tables]

I'd like to hear from Archetype one last time before we end the day. If he is town, then his leaving thoughts could be valuable?

[Archetype]

Yeah I'm Town. Been saying that for a while. You guys probably just lost though. Losing a Bulletproof Townie and all.

I like those plans though. Tables tracks Robz. Insomniac targets Galz.

If this yeilds no obvscum, lynch Insom. He knows I'm a threat to scum if I stayed alive, that's why he pushed the lynch on me. He's going to disagree, but it's the truth.

That doesnt mean that you should quicklynch him, but he's most likely scum. IIRC, Dsell thought so too.

Robz, if youre scum, that buddying with Eevee was risky.

I suggest people unwinvote. Then you can talk to a confTown for as long as you want (until deadline). Hopefully no one derphammers.

[Tables]

Well, Arch is being unhelpful. Ins is basically clear, and bulletproof is much weaker than both my and Ins' roles, so I'm not too fussed about that.

[Tables]

Okay, I don't think we're going to get any more useful discussion out. Everyone, remember to follow Galz' plan.

[Tables]

Winvote: Tables

[Robz888]

That's gotta be game. How soon will Munch get in here? Really anxious to see Arch's flip.

[Tables]

I'm going on the assumption it's not, but it might have been. Arch didn't seem to admit it, but eh.

[Robz888]

I'm going on the assumption it's not, but it might have been. Arch didn't seem to admit it, but eh.

He's gotta not admit it, just in case. In case of what? I don't know, it's role madness.

[Tables]

Well... true.

[TheMunch]

Thread Locked!!

[shraeye]

Vote Count 4.Final
LoseVote - Locked

{Locked}Archetype (3): Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria
Insomniac (1): Archetype

Not voting (1):  Tables

WinVote

{Locked}Tables (3): Galzria, Insomniac, Tables

Not voting (2): Archetype, Robz888

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lock a count.

Lynch deadline: Now

[TheMunch]

Surely that has to be it.  He has to be the last murderer among us.

"But I am not a murderer!" Aron coughed.

"I thought I killed you?" Salamence asked.

"You didn't kill me with your dragon flames... I crawled to safety!  But you did leave me badly disfigured." Laughed aron.

With one last cough the Companion Rock Aron had died.

"I guess we were wrong.  The sun is setting, we should get some rest," Salamence said.

Night 4 Start!!!

[TheMunch]

The Companion Paranoid Mouth Owner Hydreigon groggily awoke to a ghastly sight.  Standing around him were both Marowak, slamming his bone club into his open palm, and Gengar looking quite menacing.  In the distance he saw the Companion Tracker Salamence's body in a mangled heap.

"What are you doing up?" Marowak asked facetiously as he clubbed all three of Hydreigon's heads with one swing.

Congratualtions!  The TRAITOR Role Hijacker Gengar, TRAITOR Berry Merchant Marowak and TRAITOR Beloved Specialist Eevee have won!

We will also be posting Role PM's in a second so please wait till everything has been posted to celebrate!

[TheMunch]

Bump

[TheMunch]

Bump

[TheMunch]

Bump

[shraeye]

There was a bit of confusion in the scum quicktopic as Robz thought his team had just won.  But since there actually was something that could prevent the TRAITOR team from controlling half of town, the game wasn’t over.

As many may have noticed, there were two scumteams, and Insomniac was on both of them.  Another confusing bit was that only one scumteam per night actually had a functional kill.  All nightkill moves specifically said “use this to attempt the factional nightkill” for this reason.  Hilariously, the “off” team kept targeting Galz, so scum assumed he was Bulletproof.

Let’s start with town PMs.

Axxle/Voltgloss

Pokemon name: Totodile
Role name: Time Delayed Jack of All Trades
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
Totodile     Croconaw       Feraligatr
  Rage       Frustration     Super Power
                                         
Abilities:
Rage--Each night you may choose a target for one of the following actions: Watcher, Tracker, Doctor.  This action will be self-roleblocked.  When you evolve or die, all self-imposed roleblocking will retroactively be lifted and the game state will be modified to accurately reflect your amended night actions.  You may only choose each action once.

Frustration--Each night you may choose a target for one of the following actions: Coroner, Vigilante, Booster.  This action will be self-roleblocked.  When you evolve or die, all self-imposed roleblocking will retroactively be lifted and the game state will be modified to accurately reflect your amended night actions.  You may only choose each action once.

Super Power--Each night you may choose a target for one of the following actions: Watcher, Tracker, Doctor, Coroner, Vigilante, Booster.  Moves are no longer self-roleblocked.  You still can only use each action once; however, you can use actions that you had used in previous evolutions.

Action descriptions: (You cannot self-target with any of these actions)
Watcher--Choose a Pokemon.  You will learn which Pokemon visited your target that night.
Tracker--Choose a Pokemon.  You will learn which Pokemon your target decides to target that night.
Doctor--Choose a Pokemon.  That night, your target will be protected from nightkills.
Coroner--Choose a Pokemon who died during any night.  You will learn who is responsible for their death.
Vigilante--Choose a Pokemon.  Your target will be night killed.
Booster--Choose a Pokemon.  That Pokemon gains a 1-shot item that allows them to use their night action twice in a single night.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

Tables

Pokemon name: Bagon
Role name: Tracker
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
Bagon       Shelgon         Salamance
 Leer           Leer               Leer     
             Scary Face      Scary Face                         
                                 Double Team

Abilities:
Leer--Each night you may choose a Pokemon to track.  You will be informed of who that Pokemon targets at night.  You may not self-target.

Scary Face--(Passive) For each target you tracked on the previous night, you will be given a list of 3 Pokemon.  The Pokemon you tracked on the previous night will have visited one of those 3 on the current night.

Double Team--(Passive) You may use Leer twice each night.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

cayvie

Pokemon name: Pidgey
Role name: RoleJailStopKeeper
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
    Pidgey         Pidgeotto      Pidgeot
Sand-Attack         Fly         Aerial Ace
                                         Roost

Abilities: (You may only use one ability each night)
Sand-Attack--Each night you may choose 3 Pokemon on which to use Sand-Attack.  That night, your 3 targets each have a 33% chance to get roleblocked. You may not self-target.

Fly--Each night, if you are not already flying, you may choose a Pokemon to target.  That night you fly into the air, preventing abilities that target you that night.  The following night you jailkeep your specified target, causing them to be roleblocked and protected from night kills; they can still be investigated.  You may not self-target.

Roost--Each night you may choose to commute, preventing all abilities that target you that night.

Aerial Ace--Each night you may choose a target Pokemon to rolestop.  This will stop all night actions from affecting them in any way.  Your target may still use their night action.  You may not self-target.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

Captain_Frisk/ashersky

Pokemon name: Mew
Role name: Mastermind
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
  Mew
Amnesia
       
Abilities:
Amnesia--Each night, you will PM the mods a list of all living players with a proposed set of alignments for each player.  Your guesses for alignments should correspond to the colors BLUE, RED, YELLOW, where RED is Companions.  You are not told what BLUE or YELLOW represent.  We will respond to your player/alignment pair list Mastermind style.  You will be told the number of correct guesses and the number alignment guesses which would have been correct if you had put them in the right position.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

This originally was a much weaker ability (see mod QT), but the change made it very strong, as we and ashersky found out. (We kept letting him submit night actions to see how close he could come to solving the setup)

Archetype

Pokemon name: Aron
Role name: Rock
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
  Aron          Lairon             Aggron
Harden     Iron Defense     Metal Burst
                                   Iron Defense

Abilities:
Harden--(Passive) All night actions that target you are redirected to a random other Pokemon.

Iron Defense--(Passive) All night actions on you fail.

Metal Burst--(Passive) Every night, you have a chance to kill each Pokemon that ended the day with a LoseVote on you.  This chance increases every time you are targeted at night; it starts at 0% on Day 1.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.  You die immediately if you are in a situation where, without your passive abilities, you would normally be endgamed.

Galzria

Pokemon name: Deino
Role name: Paranoid Mouth (Gun) Owner
Alignment: Companion

Note:
If you are the only town player alive, AND there is only 1 scum alive, your power no longer works.

Moveset:
Deino         Zweilous          Hydreigon
 Bite        Dragon Rage        Outrage
                                         
Abilities:
Bite--Each night you may choose to randomly kill one of the Pokemon that targeted you that night.

Dragon Rage--Each night you will receive a list of moves that targeted you that night.  You may select one move from the list and kill the Pokemon that used that move on you.

Outrage--Each night you will receive a list of Pokemon that targeted you that night, along with what move they used.  You may select one Pokemon to kill from that list.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

Me and Munch had a big debate about whether Insomniac could change Galzria’s target choice.  I said no, because I didn’t think this was a targeting action, in that Galzria doesn’t visit his victim and can’t be seen if Galz is tracked, for example.  Munch agrees that a tracker on Galz wouldn’t see Galz’s victim, but pulled the primary-mod card to fiat that Insomniac could change Galz’s choice, since Insomniac’s role hijacks any choice.  I came around to Munch’s viewpoint.  What are the audience’s thoughts on this?
Also, the note that his power doesn’t work in endgame scenarios originally was left out, and was changed around the time of night 3, when I got worried that I had not seen a possible degenerate scenario.  Luckily, this never needed to be invoked.

Dsell

Pokemon name: Scyther
Role name: Propagandist
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
  Scyther          Scizor
Fury Swipe     X-Scissor         
             
Abilities:
Fury Swipe--Each night you may target one Pokemon, other than yourself.  During the following day, that Pokemon becomes hated.  Hated Pokemon require one fewer vote to be elected the loser and one more vote to be elected the winner.

X-Scissor--Each night you may select one Pokemon, other than yourself.  During the following day, that Pokemon becomes despised.  Despised Pokemon require two fewer votes to be elected the loser and two more votes to be elected the winner.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

Jimmmmm

Pokemon name: Machop
Role name: Gladiator
Alignment: Companion

Moveset:
Machop    Machoke       Machamp
  Leer         Leer         Vital Throw
              Low Kick

Abilities:
Leer--(Day Action) Once during each day you may choose X Pokemon including yourself, where X is the half the number of living Pokemon (rounded up).  You use this move by posting "Machop/Machamp uses Leer on <Machop/Machamp>, <pokemon2>,...,<pokemonX>."  Votes on Pokemon outside of this group are immediately cleared, and the group of X Pokemon are the only valid votetargets for the rest of the day.

Low Kick--(Passive) When leer is used, this move grants you the power of doublevote for the rest of the day.

Vital Throw--(Day Action) Once during each day you may choose a Pokemon to publicly dayvig; they immediately faint.  You do so by posting "Machamp uses Vital Throw on <pokemon>."  You may use this power on any living Pokemon, even if they have been locked as a battle winner/loser.  You may not, however, use this power once both candidates have been decided.

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted.

This was my favorite role, and you all lynched him without hesitation.  I cried a single tear.  This role is super badass, especially in the third form.  Once per day dayvig?!

[ashersky]

Killing me was scum's MVP move.  See my role PM for why.

[shraeye]

Here are the ‘traitor’ PMs (jotheonah, Jorbles, and sorta Insomniac whose role I’ll post later)

jotheonah

Pokemon name: Psyduck
Role name: Move Scholar
Alignment: traitor

Moveset:
    Psyduck           Golduck
 Fury Swipes           Fling
Zen Headbutt    Zen Headbutt

Abilities: (you may only use one ability each night)
Fury Swipes--Each night you may target another Pokemon to learn all the move names for that Pokemon's current form.

Fling--Each night you may target another Pokemon to learn all of the move names for each of that Pokemon's evolutions.

Zen Headbutt--In the traitor quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  You may not self-target.

You share a quicktopic with your fellow traitors here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/s7n2FpUsFXJ

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted and at least one from your faction is alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Probably one of the weaker roles, but we thought his combo with Insomniac might help things.

Jorbles

Pokemon name: Snorlax
Role name: Sleeper Agent
Alignment: traitor

Moveset:
  Snorlax
    Rest
Body Slam       

Abilities:
Rest--(day action) Once during each day you are awake, you may use Rest by posting "Snorlax uses Rest" in the thread.  You may use this power even after a battle winner/loser has been decided.  You may not, however, use this power once both candidates have been decided, as the day is over.  This move immediately ends the current day, skipping the battle entirely.  Snorlax will remain asleep during that night, the following day, and the following night.  While sleeping, you are not allowed to perform the factional nightkill or place any votes.  You may, however, continue to post regularly.

Body Slam--In the traitor quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  You may not self-target.

You share a quicktopic with your fellow traitors here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/s7n2FpUsFXJ

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted and at least one from your faction is alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

This was also cool; it’s a shame he never got to use the power.

[shraeye]

And here are the ‘TRAITOR’ PMs (Eevee, Robz, Insomniac-sorta)

Eevee

Pokemon name: Eevee
Role name: Beloved Specialist
Alignment: TRAITOR

Moveset:
 Eevee      Jolteon      Vaporeon    Flareon
Tackle  Quick Attack  Water Gun  Fire Blast     
Charm       Charm       Aqua Ring    Charm

Evolution: If you evolve, you may choose any of your three basic evolution forms.  This choice is permanent.

Abilities:
Tackle--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill. You may not self-target.

Charm--(Passive) This move grants you the status of Beloved.  Beloved Pokemon require one more vote to be elected the loser and one fewer vote to be elected the winner of a battle.

Water Gun--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  You may not self-target.

Aqua Ring--(Passive) This move grants you the status of Idolized.  Idolized Pokemon require two more votes to be elected the loser and two fewer votes to be elected the winner of a battle.

Quick Attack--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  This attack is sooooo quick, that you will kill before anybody has a chance to use any of their active moves.  You may not self-target.

Fire Blast--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  This attack is sooooo explosive, that it will also affect Pokemon who are targeting your intended victim with certain moves.  You may not self-target.

You share a quicktopic with your fellow TRAITOR team here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/JxkQtsh3fHHn

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted and at least one from your faction is alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

He had the most moves available, some of them quite fun.  Quick Attack could get past Galz’s PGO, for one.  But couldn’t get to Archetype, however.

Robz888

Pokemon name: Cubone
Role name: Berry Merchant
Alignment: TRAITOR

Moveset:
 Cubone       Marowak
   Fling         Retaliate     
Bone Club    Bone Club

Abilities: (you may only use one ability each night)
Fling--Each night you may give another Pokemon a Berry.  It is probably delicious.  They will not be told what it does.  Neither will you.

Retaliate--Each night you may give another Pokemon a Berry.  Any Pokemon holding a Berry MUST eat it.  They will not be told what it does.  Neither will you.

Bone Club--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  You may not self-target.

You share a quicktopic with your fellow TRAITOR team here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/JxkQtsh3fHHn

Win Condition: You win when all Pokemon not aligned with you have fainted and at least one from your faction is alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

[shraeye]

Finally, Insomniac.  An interesting role; sorta SK, half on both scumteams.  In the end, he had the choice to direct Robz’s kill to Galzria.  I imagine Robz would have got chomped super-fast.  Then it would have been Insomniac/Tables in a 1v1 endgame scenario and a win for the ‘Loner’ faction.

At any point where Insomniac died, he kept all allegiances active at the time of his death.

Pokemon name: Gastly
Role name: Role Hijacker
Alignment: Traitor

Note: You are aligned with both the "traitor" faction and the "TRAITOR" faction.  If you outlive your partners in one of these factions, then that faction is immediately dissolved.  If both factions have been dissolved this way, your alignment changes to "Loner".

Moveset:
    Gastly          Haunter       Gengar
Night Shade   Dream Eater   Nightmare     
     Lick              Lick             Lick

Abilities: (You may only use one ability each night)
Lick--In the TRAITOR quicktopic, or the traitor quicktopic, use this move to attempt the factional nightkill.  You could USE this move in both quicktopics; but if you do this, you must PM the mods to inform them which move is a decoy and which is real.  You may of course target the same Pokemon with both real and decoy moves, but still PM the mods for accuracy.  You may not self-target.

Night Shade--Each night you may choose another Pokemon.  If applicable, you may choose a new target for their night action, as if you were that Pokemon.  Your victim will be made aware of his new target, but not that YOU changed it.

Dream Eater-- Each night you may choose another Pokemon, learning the effect of the move that Pokemon is using that night.  If applicable, you may choose a new target for their night action, as if you were that Pokemon.  Your victim will be made aware of his new target, but not that YOU changed it.

Nightmare--Each night you may choose 2 other Pokemon, learning the effect of the moves that both Pokemon are using that night.  If applicable, you may choose a new target for ONE Pokemon's move, as if you were that Pokemon.  Your victim will be made aware of his new target, but not that YOU changed it.

You share a quicktopic with your fellow TRAITOR team here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/JxkQtsh3fHHn

You share a quicktopic with your fellow traitors here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/s7n2FpUsFXJ

Post Restriction: You may not reveal to anyone that you are on two scum factions.  No paraphrasing of your PM can involve the existence of more than one scum faction.  The italicized sections of your PM may never be talked about ever, paraphrased or not.  You may talk freely about the existence of both scum factions, but may neither cite nor imply that you have mod knowledge of BOTH scum teams existing.  Please PM your mods to give your understanding of this post restriction.  Also PM your mods whenever you feel like a post has a chance of violating these terms.

Win Condition: You may only win with one faction at a time.  You win with that faction when all Pokemon not aligned with that faction have fainted and at least one from that faction is alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening.  If your alignment becomes Loner, then you win when all other Pokemon have fainted and you are alive.

[ashersky]

Wait, Tables really was town?

Tables, why did you lie about tracking me???

[shraeye]

Oh and the QTs:
‘TRAITOR’ QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/JxkQtsh3fHHn
‘traitor’ QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/s7n2FpUsFXJ
Spectator thread: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/s3LVdSw5CMH99
Mod thread: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/DNTBrjGrNrFKe

[Robz888]

Yay, a win I mostly didn't deserve.

[Jorbles]

Wait my team got dissolved? And I thought I'd finally gotten a win. 

[ashersky]

Wait, Tables really was town?

Tables, why did you lie about tracking me??

Tables, I really want to hear about this.

[Ozle]

I just read all that amd i still don't know what happened....

[Insomniac]

Sorry Jorbles/Joth.

[Insomniac]

And sorry Galz I knew once we lynched Archetype I had won, the reason for the additional night was because I could have caused myself to win and ONLY myself, but thats not my style.

[Jorbles]

Sorry Jorbles/Joth.

Not your fault. Just the role you were dealt. I dislike split alignments for this reason.

[TheMunch]

Wait my team got dissolved? And I thought I'd finally gotten a win. 

Yup.  The moment that the last 'traitor' died, insoms allignment "switched".  I was still rooting for a solo insomniac win, but unfortunately he didn't know that galz wasn't bulletproof.  If he did, he could have redirected Robz' night kill away from Tables onto Galz, Galz and Robz both die and he wins by himself.  Oh well.

Although if I could ask one question of you all, who thought it would be a good idea to mass claim in a game modded by TheMunch and Shraeye!?  You guys lynched both Jimmm and Archetype cause their roles "sounded scummy"?  Hehehe

[Robz888]

And sorry Galz I knew once we lynched Archetype I had won, the reason for the additional night was because I could have caused myself to win and ONLY myself, but thats not my style.

Wow. Thanks for not screwing me over man. What a guy!

MVP: Insomniac. Also MGGGP: Insomniac. (Most Good Guy Greg Player)

[Robz888]

What did my berries actually do?

[Insomniac]

I thought the attempt wording was because If I posted a different nk in both qts only one would go through.

How was it decided which one had a kill?

also sooo many times I wanted to break my post restriction.


And I was SOOOOOOO mad when joth lied about targetting me after we planned to have that be the thing, cuz I made the tracker tables target joth specifically BECAUSE that was the plan. I thought I was done for along with joth. But then joths role was rolecop so it ended up making me clear!

[Insomniac]

I was also constantly bewildered that neither Robz nor Joth noted that the spelling of TRAITOR and traitor was different.

[TheMunch]

What did my berries actually do?

Your berries had a chance to kill and a chance to doctor.  You actually could have saved eevee from dying to Galz bite N1 by giving Eevee the berry!

[TheMunch]

What did my berries actually do?

Your berries had a chance to kill and a chance to doctor.  You actually could have saved eevee from dying to Galz bite N1 by giving Eevee the berry!

Robz's berries + archetypes final form + Galz resulted in the most broken scenarios!

[Ozle]

And sorry Galz I knew once we lynched Archetype I had won, the reason for the additional night was because I could have caused myself to win and ONLY myself, but thats not my style.

You Sir, are a wuss!

You could have had it ALL!

[shraeye]

What did my berries actually do?

33% doctor, 33% kill, 34% do nothing.  The berry you gave to Eevee did nothing.

@Insom, random.org.  Most the behind the scenes details is written in the modthread.

[shraeye]

What did my berries actually do?

Your berries had a chance to kill and a chance to doctor.  You actually could have saved eevee from dying to Galz bite N1 by giving Eevee the berry!

He DID give eevee the berry.  And Eevee did eat it.

[shraeye]

Also surprising, was Galzria's hesitance to turn on his random PGO power night1 juxtaposed with it's strong success.

[TheMunch]

What did my berries actually do?

Your berries had a chance to kill and a chance to doctor.  You actually could have saved eevee from dying to Galz bite N1 by giving Eevee the berry!

He DID give eevee the berry.  And Eevee did eat it.

Yeah I said could cause it had a chance to, but random.org didn't agree

[Insomniac]

FWIW if traitors had tried to NK TRAITORS or vice versa I would have strongly advised against it.

[Galzria]

Man, I single handedly killed two scum, AND saw right through another (Joth), and STILL lost with two scum alive?

Man was there ANYBODY on my town team this game? Sheeeesh!

[Jorbles]

Man Insomniac was so powerful. He had two possible teams to win with and he could redirect people's targetting from the very beginning. You sir, won at random.org.

[Insomniac]

Man, I single handedly killed two scum, AND saw right through another (Joth), and STILL lost with two scum alive?

Man was there ANYBODY on my town team this game? Sheeeesh!

Sorry I thought I was hooped when Joth lied about targetting me. And I wasn't sure how my fakeclaim would go over.

[Insomniac]

Man Insomniac was so powerful. He had two possible teams to win with and he could redirect people's targetting from the very beginning. You sir, won at random.org.

I'm Gengar BITCH!

[Jorbles]

Man, I single handedly killed two scum, AND saw right through another (Joth), and STILL lost with two scum alive?

Man was there ANYBODY on my town team this game? Sheeeesh!

I knew you were a PGO, I was just willing to take you down with me since I still had two team mates. I didn't think it was possible my kill could just fail like that.

However, I am glad the kill on asherky/Frisk's crazy cop power went through first night.

[Insomniac]

Ash COULD have found the fact there were to scum teams. Although I don't know how it would have reacted to me, was I both blue and yellow?

[Jorbles]

And hey, there were real post restrictions in the game!

[Insomniac]

Galz/Tables: When you guys started inquiring about how I used my power the way I did I thought I was hooped, what was it that sold you on my claim? (As I was the only one that full on lied through my teeth)

[Insomniac]

And hey, there were real post restrictions in the game!

There were but I couldn't tell you that. But I knew the ZZZ was more strict a post restriction then they would put in place.

[eHalcyon]

Now knowing the full setup, I have to say that the setup was heavily skewed against town and FOR Insomniac in a very unfair but not entirely obvious manner.

First note that there are 5 scum in a game of 13.  This is a HUGE scum population.  Now, this could still be balanced with scum trying to snipe each other, but that wasn't going to happen in this case for several reasons.

First, most scum were not aware there was a second scum team and thus were not gunning for them.  But second, and most importantly, Insomniac was in BOTH scum teams and was thus in a unique position to steer scum away from each other.

When there are two scum teams, part of the balance MUST come from scum attacking each other.  Insomniac heavily mitigated that possibility.

Finally, note that Insomniac was a KNOWN team mate to 4 other players and that he had the opportunity to keep the 2 on one side from going after the 2 on the other side, and vice versa.  Even though they were 2 teams, it is not a far cry from a single scum team of 5 which, I hope all would agree, is very unbalanced against town.  As it was, there were 4/8 players at the start who would not have wanted to see Insomniac lynched.  As the game progresses, there are fewer people who would ever go after Insomniac.  I don't see how Ins could have lost, really.

Now, perhaps balance was meant to be achieved in powers.  ashersky's Mastermind had high potential for sure, and Galz was pretty good too.  Archetype I think was actually strongest, even in his unevolved form.  But ultimately, the most potent power is knowledge and influence.  With four scum teammates, he had far more knowledge than town could overcome.

[Eevee]

Robz, I share your feelings of not deserving this win.

Also lol, I was wondering if our scum team was "normal" from the beginning.

[Insomniac]

Most of the town had pretty strong powers.

[TheMunch]

Loved the fake claims from Robz and Insomniac.  But I even told Shraeye I really thought that Robz was caught near the end by tables because Tables didn't know that Insomniac didn't know who Tables was targeting when he redirected.  I would have thought that the avoidance of Robz with the tracking redirect would have sealed his fate.  And then, even more so when Arch claimed and both Robz and Insom quickly jumped on that "oh he looks scummy just cause of his role" argument, I thought that someone would have gone, oh this worked terribly with Jimmm, why are robz and insom so eager to push that idea again.

I dont think that town was really that underpowered.  Town had some badass roles to counter gengar but autolynching people probably was not the best idea.

PPE: Regarding scum "knowing about the other team,"  Most picked up on it REALLY QUICKLY in QT.  I was actually surprised at how quickly everyone said "oh theres a second scum team" in their QTs

[Insomniac]

Now knowing the full setup, I have to say that the setup was heavily skewed against town and FOR Insomniac in a very unfair but not entirely obvious manner.

First note that there are 5 scum in a game of 13.  This is a HUGE scum population.  Now, this could still be balanced with scum trying to snipe each other, but that wasn't going to happen in this case for several reasons.

First, most scum were not aware there was a second scum team and thus were not gunning for them.  But second, and most importantly, Insomniac was in BOTH scum teams and was thus in a unique position to steer scum away from each other.

When there are two scum teams, part of the balance MUST come from scum attacking each other.  Insomniac heavily mitigated that possibility.

Finally, note that Insomniac was a KNOWN team mate to 4 other players and that he had the opportunity to keep the 2 on one side from going after the 2 on the other side, and vice versa.  Even though they were 2 teams, it is not a far cry from a single scum team of 5 which, I hope all would agree, is very unbalanced against town.  As it was, there were 4/8 players at the start who would not have wanted to see Insomniac lynched.  As the game progresses, there are fewer people who would ever go after Insomniac.  I don't see how Ins could have lost, really.

Now, perhaps balance was meant to be achieved in powers.  ashersky's Mastermind had high potential for sure, and Galz was pretty good too.  Archetype I think was actually strongest, even in his unevolved form.  But ultimately, the most potent power is knowledge and influence.  With four scum teammates, he had far more knowledge than town could overcome.

Axxle/Volt and Cayvie were also quite strong.

Also I thought I was hooped on the joth thing and my roleclaim.

[Insomniac]

Loved the fake claims from Robz and Insomniac.  But I even told Shraeye I really thought that Robz was caught near the end by tables because Tables didn't know that Insomniac didn't know who Tables was targeting when he redirected.  I would have thought that the avoidance of Robz with the tracking redirect would have sealed his fate.  And then, even more so when Arch claimed and both Robz and Insom quickly jumped on that "oh he looks scummy just cause of his role" argument, I thought that someone would have gone, oh this worked terribly with Jimmm, why are robz and insom so eager to push that idea again.

I dont think that town was really that underpowered.  Town had some badass roles to counter gengar but autolynching people probably was not the best idea.

PPE: Regarding scum "knowing about the other team,"  Most picked up on it REALLY QUICKLY in QT.  I was actually surprised at how quickly everyone said "oh theres a second scum team" in their QTs

I also thought when Robz followed me he was dead because it was sooo scummy.

[TheMunch]

I think the balance to the 5 scum was the fact that they didn't each get a NK.  In fact, Galz stayed alive twice for this very reason, while killing scum in the process.  I like to think of it (for balance purposes) as a 5 man scum team, where most of the scum dont actually know all 5 members of the scum team, so its a gimped 5 man scum team.

[eHalcyon]

Most of the town had pretty strong powers.

Don't get me wrong Ins -- I think you played fine.  But I am tweaked about imbalanced setups after RMMI.   I really do think you had too big an advantage. 

Or wait, oops -- math fail above.  It would be 4/12, not 4/8.  Not quite as crazy.  But still, that's good odds.  With 13 players, 7 are needed to lynch.  There are only 8 townies, so 7/8 townies would want you dead, and that's just not likely to happen in a town of 13, especially with scumbuddies steering conversation in other directions.

[Insomniac]

Both teams almost bussed me on day 1/2. I wanted to be like shut up scum friends stop bussing me

[jotheonah]

I thought the attempt wording was because If I posted a different nk in both qts only one would go through.

How was it decided which one had a kill?

also sooo many times I wanted to break my post restriction.


And I was SOOOOOOO mad when joth lied about targetting me after we planned to have that be the thing, cuz I made the tracker tables target joth specifically BECAUSE that was the plan. I thought I was done for along with joth. But then joths role was rolecop so it ended up making me clear!

I will never go off script again. I was face palming so hard.

[eHalcyon]

I think the balance to the 5 scum was the fact that they didn't each get a NK.  In fact, Galz stayed alive twice for this very reason, while killing scum in the process.  I like to think of it (for balance purposes) as a 5 man scum team, where most of the scum dont actually know all 5 members of the scum team, so its a gimped 5 man scum team.

Yes, but it is only very slightly gimped because Insomniac was a common link PLUS they had their own regular powers to use against the town.  Even a gimped 5 man scum team skews the game heavily in favour for scum.  In a town of 13, it's usually just 3 scum, isn't it?

[eHalcyon]

Both teams almost bussed me on day 1/2. I wanted to be like shut up scum friends stop bussing me

That would have been disastrous for you!

[TheMunch]

But I mean, who didn't think it was hilarious that there was an unlynchable scum (Jorbles) and an unnightkillable town (Arch)?!

But eHalcyon, we spent a lot of time working on these roles, I urge you to reread them.  There were a great many avenues for success for town.  There was a lot of ways for town to get in some killing, and a lot of ways for town to get a lot of information.

Question:  Was anyone confused by the Night 2 flip on Jorbles having him written as the wrong traitor (I think I wrote him initially as TRAITOR but edited it very quickly)?

[Insomniac]

Both teams almost bussed me on day 1/2. I wanted to be like shut up scum friends stop bussing me

That would have been disastrous for you!

Agreed. Anyways maybe it was imba because scum won but I mean looking over the town roles town had a lot lot lot of power. More so I think than any rmm game to date and I don't know how much that mitigates

[Jorbles]

But I mean, who didn't think it was hilarious that there was an unlynchable scum (Jorbles) and an unnightkillable town (Arch)?!

But eHalcyon, we spent a lot of time working on these roles, I urge you to reread them.  There were a great many avenues for success for town.  There was a lot of ways for town to get in some killing, and a lot of ways for town to get a lot of information.

Question:  Was anyone confused by the Night 2 flip on Jorbles having him written as the wrong traitor (I think I wrote him initially as TRAITOR but edited it very quickly)?

I wasn't totally unlynchable. I could only use my power every other day. I wish I had gotten the chance to use it though.

(I didn't even notice that flip. Guess I saw it too late.)

[Insomniac]

I too didn't see the original flip

[shraeye]

Ash COULD have found the fact there were to scum teams. Although I don't know how it would have reacted to me, was I both blue and yellow?

Yup, you were both blue AND yellow.

Now knowing the full setup, I have to say that the setup was heavily skewed against town and FOR Insomniac in a very unfair but not entirely obvious manner.

It was biased towards scum and Insom I think, but I don't think it was an overwhelming bias.  Hard to assess, some of this stuff.

I will never go off script again. I was face palming so hard.

I found it amusing

Agreed. Anyways maybe it was imba because scum won but I mean looking over the town roles town had a lot lot lot of power. More so I think than any rmm game to date and I don't know how much that mitigates

Yup, thinking about some roles by themselves, I was like "dear god, that won't work!"  But there were enough "oh wow" powers on both sides, that I thought both sides started with at least a medium-chance.

[ashersky]

Do the mods have insight into Tables's lie about tracking me?  Or did he get some odd result from you all?

[Jorbles]

Do the mods have insight into Tables's lie about tracking me?  Or did he get some odd result from you all?

There's a note on that somewhere in the mod thread. Apparently he just misremembered something.

[Archetype]

I still can't believe you guys lynched me. It was so obvious Insom was scum when he started going after me.

Still dont know why people thought Insom was clear.

[TheMunch]

Do the mods have insight into Tables's lie about tracking me?  Or did he get some odd result from you all?

There's a note on that somewhere in the mod thread. Apparently he just misremembered something.

This.

[ashersky]

Do the mods have insight into Tables's lie about tracking me?  Or did he get some odd result from you all?

There's a note on that somewhere in the mod thread. Apparently he just misremembered something.

Oh.  If I was alive, man I would have slammed him for it.  I guess he would have checked his PMs, then, though.

[shraeye]

I was just thinking about the most powerful pro-town combo.  Jimmmm/Archetype would have been super potent.  Jimmm can ensure that Archetype is never up for vote and is unkillable, Jimmm's doublevote/dayvig could have wrecked scum, even at the end.

[Archetype]

I was just thinking about the most powerful pro-town combo.  Jimmmm/Archetype would have been super potent.  Jimmm can ensure that Archetype is never up for vote and is unkillable, Jimmm's doublevote/dayvig could have wrecked scum, even at the end.

I do regret voting him. Big mistake.

[Insomniac]

I still can't believe you guys lynched me. It was so obvious Insom was scum when he started going after me.

Still dont know why people thought Insom was clear.

Man this just isn't true. I would have voted you if I was town there too. I'll explain why.

1) We know Galzria shoots people that target him
2) For whatever reason town believed there was exactly 1 scum left
3) We thought that Galz could force a stalemate.
4) You wanted to be evolved anyways
5) Your evolution if scum would have allowed you to kill Galzria without any downside.

Occam's Razor said you were scum trying to get into the one scenario that could cause your team to win.

[Archetype]

If I were scum, I could have still killed him, the PGO kill bouncing off of me.

[ashersky]

Shraeye, you are clearly around.  Go back to MXVIII.

[Insomniac]

AS SCUM though we were under the impression that his role was this.

Galz Ability: You may kill someone targetting you. If you do this happens before whatever night action they do so their night action doesn't happen.


IE the role resolution order was

GALZ
Everybody else as normal.

[Archetype]

If I knew that his power goes through mine, then why would I want to evolve?

[Insomniac]

If I knew that his power goes through mine, then why would I want to evolve?

...It wouldn't if you were bulletproof like you were if you evolved.

[shraeye]

For ashersky:

Here is the offending PM, exactly as it was sent to Tables, who tracked you night 1.

Your target, Mew (ashersky), didn't visit anybody during the night.

You'll have to ask Tables why he said something else in thread, but my "easy explanations are easy" response is that he inaccurately recalled what it said.

Oddly enough, Tables only saw somebody visit someone else once, when he was redirected to jotheonah on that fateful night where joth targeted Insomniac (a pretty clever play, which somehow still cleared Insomniac after joth told plans what were what.)

[ashersky]

For ashersky:

Here is the offending PM, exactly as it was sent to Tables, who tracked you night 1.

Your target, Mew (ashersky), didn't visit anybody during the night.

You'll have to ask Tables why he said something else in thread, but my "easy explanations are easy" response is that he inaccurately recalled what it said.

Oddly enough, Tables only saw somebody visit someone else once, when he was redirected to jotheonah on that fateful night where joth targeted Insomniac (a pretty clever play, which somehow still cleared Insomniac after joth told plans what were what.)

Thanks.  So it was just a misremembering thing, I guess.  Or maybe Tables had a clever reason for it, like trying to catch someone out in a lie.

[Archetype]

Galz Ability: You may kill someone targetting you. If you do this happens before whatever night action they do so their night action doesn't happen.


IE the role resolution order was

GALZ
Everybody else as normal.

Galz's power would occur first,going past my Bulletproof, and killing me.

IF I was Winvoted, I would be Doctored. BUT I said I didnt really want to nbe winvoted. I just needed the experience.

But actually, I didn't need the experience. Scum wouldn't target me anyway.

[Insomniac]

Galz Ability: You may kill someone targetting you. If you do this happens before whatever night action they do so their night action doesn't happen.


IE the role resolution order was

GALZ
Everybody else as normal.

Galz's power would occur first,going past my Bulletproof, and killing me.

IF I was Winvoted, I would be Doctored. BUT I said I didnt really want to nbe winvoted. I just needed the experience.

But actually, I didn't need the experience. Scum wouldn't target me anyway.

We had no idea what your ability was. I would have thought as town that you were trying to become bulletproof to shoot Galz and if you got that through a trickle effect of lynches NK's it would have been bad. because bulletproof is passive so galz wouldn't stop you because he wouldn't kill you

[Archetype]

So if you were one a single scumteam, and I was on the other, you would still think that me killing Galz would prevent him from killing me.

[Insomniac]

So if you were one a single scumteam, and I was on the other, you would still think that me killing Galz would prevent him from killing me.

if you were bulletproof yes.

[Archetype]

So if you were one a single scumteam, and I was on the other, you would still think that me killing Galz would prevent him from killing me.

if you were bulletproof yes.

Well what's done is done. I should have pushed a lynch on you harder, and I didn't, which was my mistake. I've never been good at persuasion. I could tell your claim was fake, thought you were acting scummy, and thought the 'auto-clear' on you was strange.

But good job, and neat role. A bit OP, but the majority of the powers were anyway.

[Dsell]

But good job, and neat role. A bit OP, but the majority of the powers were anyway.

lol not mine. I didn't use it N2 or N3.

[Insomniac]

But good job, and neat role. A bit OP, but the majority of the powers were anyway.

lol not mine. I didn't use it N2 or N3.

I thought you had the weakest of town roles but it's still like pseudo vig.

[ashersky]

But good job, and neat role. A bit OP, but the majority of the powers were anyway.

lol not mine. I didn't use it N2 or N3.

I thought you had the weakest of town roles but it's still like pseudo vig.

When I first subbed in, I thought my mastermind cop was underwhelming.  Definitely got stronger as the game went on.  'Cept I was dead.

[Archetype]

But good job, and neat role. A bit OP, but the majority of the powers were anyway.

lol not mine. I didn't use it N2 or N3.

Eh yeah. Like I said, majority.

Your power was pretty bad. 

DoubleVoter would have been cool, and then TripleVoter when you evolve.

[Tables]

There were TWO scum teams?

...

Ugh. I'm used to two scum team games, but never in a game this small. Ugh. More like BMM4.

Galz/Tables: When you guys started inquiring about how I used my power the way I did I thought I was hooped, what was it that sold you on my claim? (As I was the only one that full on lied through my teeth)

It was the fact Joth targeted you. I gave the explanation for this, I think.

Do the mods have insight into Tables's lie about tracking me?  Or did he get some odd result from you all?

I did track you night 1. I think. I'd check but it'll take me forever.

[Archetype]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

[Tables]

I did track you night 1. I think. I'd check but it'll take me forever.

In fact, yeah, Munch quoted it just on the last page. I tracked you, got no result. I don't think I ever said otherwise.

[ashersky]

I did track you night 1. I think. I'd check but it'll take me forever.

In fact, yeah, Munch quoted it just on the last page. I tracked you, got no result. I don't think I ever said otherwise.

I'm not going to dig through, but you said "I tracked ashersky and he tracked, uh, I don't remember" or something to that effect.  We discussed it in the speccy QT.

[Tables]

Well that's not a lie, is it?

[ashersky]

Well that's not a lie, is it?

I mean, I guess not.  But it makes it sound like I tracked someone.  The thing is, I think most of us assumed you would clearly remember "targeted no one" or "targeted playername" and wouldn't get those confused.

[Tables]

Possibly. I'd have likely paid more attention if you didn't die during the night, which pretty much made the result completely unmemorable.

[ashersky]

Okay, fair enough. Joth is scum, he visited Insomniac.

I'm a tracker.

Leer tracks someone.
If someone I tracked the night before visits someone tonight, then Scary Face gives me three names and they visited one of those three.
Double Team lets me track two people.

Night 1 I tracked Ashersky. He visited... someone, I forget, I can check if you want (but it wasn't Eevee, I remember that).
Night 2 I found out Ashersky didn't visit anyone (surprise!) and tried to track Jorbles, my main FoS, but got redirected to Joth, who visited Insomn.

Bolded for emphasis.  You specifically said "someone."  That really threw me off in speccy.

[TheMunch]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

[Insomniac]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

I like poke theme.

[TheMunch]

If it happened again I would def want to play!

[Jorbles]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

 

[Galzria]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

I like poke theme.

What's a Poke?

[Tables]

Okay, fair enough. Joth is scum, he visited Insomniac.

I'm a tracker.

Leer tracks someone.
If someone I tracked the night before visits someone tonight, then Scary Face gives me three names and they visited one of those three.
Double Team lets me track two people.

Night 1 I tracked Ashersky. He visited... someone, I forget, I can check if you want (but it wasn't Eevee, I remember that).
Night 2 I found out Ashersky didn't visit anyone (surprise!) and tried to track Jorbles, my main FoS, but got redirected to Joth, who visited Insomn.

Bolded for emphasis.  You specifically said "someone."  That really threw me off in speccy.

Oh right. Honestly, if someone else I posted something like that, I'd have just shrugged and assumed the result was unimportant. If they later told me they visited nobody, I'd have also found it uninteresting. I think you overread into it.

[ashersky]

Okay, fair enough. Joth is scum, he visited Insomniac.

I'm a tracker.

Leer tracks someone.
If someone I tracked the night before visits someone tonight, then Scary Face gives me three names and they visited one of those three.
Double Team lets me track two people.

Night 1 I tracked Ashersky. He visited... someone, I forget, I can check if you want (but it wasn't Eevee, I remember that).
Night 2 I found out Ashersky didn't visit anyone (surprise!) and tried to track Jorbles, my main FoS, but got redirected to Joth, who visited Insomn.

Bolded for emphasis.  You specifically said "someone."  That really threw me off in speccy.

Oh right. Honestly, if someone else I posted something like that, I'd have just shrugged and assumed the result was unimportant. If they later told me they visited nobody, I'd have also found it uninteresting. I think you overread into it.

Funny thing was, no one was asking anything about it...like, hey maybe ashersky targeted Galz and died from that.

[Insomniac]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

I like poke theme.

What's a Poke?

Short for pokemon

[Galzria]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

I like poke theme.

What's a Poke?

Short for pokemon

What's a pokemon?

[Insomniac]

I'd actually really want to play this type of game again. Winvote and Losevote make it pretty interesting.

Sequel? I'd be fun co-modding this.

It was great.  The winvote losevote was quite interesing I do have to say.  But it definitely was hard to keep everythign 100% straight even as mod with JORBLES FAKED POST RESTRICTION

If it was done again I think a new flavor might be interesting and maybe a: you lose vote first and you win vote second
or something so that you dont constantly have 2 changing vote totals.

I like poke theme.

What's a Poke?

Short for pokemon

What's a pokemon?

Short for Pocket Monster

[shraeye]

Ok, I have a prediction for Galz's next post.  I hope I'm right!

[Galzria]

Ok, I have a prediction for Galz's next post.  I hope I'm right!

I'm SO TEMPTED.

But I must be on my good behavior. It's just set up sooooo well!

Ah hell.

Short for Pocket Monster

Buddy, I -know- what a Pocket Monster is... And there's nothing "Short" about it!

[Insomniac]

Ok, I have a prediction for Galz's next post.  I hope I'm right!

I'm SO TEMPTED.

But I must be on my good behavior. It's just set up sooooo well!

Ah hell.

Short for Pocket Monster

Buddy, I -know- what a Pocket Monster is... And there's nothing "Short" about it!

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW but I had my setup all ready.

[Archetype]

I never noticed that.

Pocket
-et

+

Monster
-ster

=

Pokemon.


Huh. I knew Pocket Monster was another name for Pokemon, but I never noticed it was the 2 words combined.

Learn something new every day.

[Eevee]

Hahaha guys, wellplayed.