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Combo: Apothecary/Vault

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ackack:

--- Quote from: HiveMindEmulator on September 01, 2011, 01:19:38 pm ---That basically just amounts to "cycling". It gets your victory cards and coppers out of the way quicker. But with vault, it doesn't matter if you drew those cards in your original hand or as the +2 card draw.
--- End quote ---

The point of it is that you strongly increase your chances of getting money out of the greens while simultaneously making sure that they don't show up in your next hand (where you most likely don't have a Vault anyway). That's substantially more than just cycling.

Mean Mr Mustard:
When Apothecary fires, you move the greens to the top and leave an Apothecary for the next hand while wasting the greens with the Vault.  Try it in a solitaire match and you will see what he means.

HiveMindEmulator:
No, I get it. Apothecary lets you arrange your cards so you get estates with vaults more often. But you know what else can do that? More vaults. The thing with vault decks is that you don't really care that much where your estates show up. There are plenty of other decks where it's important to draw some cards with other cards, but vault decks are not really in this class.

My point is that I don't think apothecary helps accomplish anything better than if you just buy vaults and money. You can do cute things, but I doubt it's actually any stronger. Sure you can use apothecary with vault, and if I got one masqueraded or ambassadored to me, I'd be happy, but I don't think it provides enough of a benefit that it's worth buying a potion and delaying getting vaults and golds for.

DG:
Before any tries this to check it out with the simulator, remember that the simulator bot always discards 2 for 1 when an opponent plays a vault. This can often be more like an attack than a benefit so vault performs much stronger than it would in a real game.

Geronimoo:
Current play rules for Vault in the simulator:

-discard all garbage for +$1 (including coppers, victories, curses and actions if actions left = 0)
-then opponent will always discard if it has at least 2 garbage cards (victories, coppers, curses) UNLESS he's holding a Vault, in which case he will NEVER discard
(-some play rules to enable the "play Tactician each turn with Vault")

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