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[jamespotter]

This is a new card idea I was toying with...

Rules note: When you elect to play with Charms you put in all 3 piles of six cards each. This counts as one kingdom card pile. If all 3 of the Charm piles are gone during the game, it counts as one pile gone.

Illumination Charm
Action-Charm
$3
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. Gain a Charm.

Growth Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+2 cards
Gain a Charm.

Life Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+2 actions
Gain a Charm.


Charms are a bit zany, but I feel that there are some playable strategies with them. They are perhaps even OP? Any ideas are welcome.

[LastFootnote]

This is a new card idea I was toying with...

Rules note: When you elect to play with Charms you put in all 3 piles of six cards each. This counts as one kingdom card pile. If all 3 of the Charm piles are gone during the game, it counts as one pile gone.

Illumination Charm
Action-Charm
$3
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. Gain a Charm.

Growth Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+2 cards
Gain a Charm.

Life Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+2 actions
Gain a Charm.


Charms are a bit zany, but I feel that there are some playable strategies with them. They are perhaps even OP? Any ideas are welcome.

This is the kind of idea that I would have dismissed immediately before Dark Ages came out. Now that I've seen what kinds of wacky things are canon, though, this seems like an awesome idea!

I'd consider making Life Charm +2 Actions/+1 Coin. Regardless, this is the kind of idea that has to be playtested to figure out how it would work out.

[jamespotter]

This is the kind of idea that I would have dismissed immediately before Dark Ages came out. Now that I've seen what kinds of wacky things are canon, though, this seems like an awesome idea!

I'd consider making Life Charm +2 Actions/+1 Coin. Regardless, this is the kind of idea that has to be playtested to figure out how it would work out.

My thoughts exactly!    Coincidentally, the 3 effects I started with were: [+2 actions, +$1] [Trash up to 3 cards] and
[+2 cards, +$1]. The problem with this is that it means you can build a Charm engine that is absurdly good, just by buying one or two Charms. I then endeavored to make all of the effects weaker than a 2 cost card, and this is what materialized.

[SirPeebles]

It seems to me that one of the interesting effects of these charms is that using them floods your deck with more charms.  Sounds like it could be a little dangerous without some foresight, which is interesting.

[dondon151]

Life Charm -> Growth Charm restores your handsize back to what it was originally and yields no extra actions. This seems incredibly weak.

[LastFootnote]

Life Charm -> Growth Charm restores your handsize back to what it was originally and yields no extra actions. This seems incredibly weak.

Right, that's why I suggested that Life Charm also produce +$1. However, I can seem how that could get out of hand quickly when playing each Charm gains another Charm.

What if Life Charm was +2 Actions/+$1, but only Illumination Charm gained another Charm when played? Right now, Illumination Charm is normally the one you want the fewest of. This would give you more incentive to take them and play them even after you're done trashing. Perhaps also reduce the number of cards you trash to 2?

[jamespotter]

What if we simply add a weak bonus to each charm, like "look at the top card of your deck, you may keep it there or discard it" I want to keep all of the Charms gaining charms because that's kind of the point.

[SirPeebles]

I think it would be cute to make the Charms cost $0.  After all, they aren't super powerful, and with the self gaining you are unlikely to want to spend the buys on more anyhow.

Perhaps it would be nice to make a Looter like mechanic in which there are three or so kingdom cards which interact with Charms, and Charms are present whenever one of these cards are present.  I could imagine a treasure worth more for each charm in play (but frustratingly without a +buy to keep things in check), a victory card worth 1 VP for each Charm in your deck (for every two Charms?  Worth 2 for every "1 of each" set in your deck?), and maybe a Scout variant for Charms.

[jupiter]

and maybe a Scout variant for Charms.

That would make Charms way overpowered.

[Archetype]

Life Charm -> Growth Charm restores your handsize back to what it was originally and yields no extra actions. This seems incredibly weak.

Right, that's why I suggested that Life Charm also produce +$1. However, I can seem how that could get out of hand quickly when playing each Charm gains another Charm.

What if Life Charm was +2 Actions/+$1, but only Illumination Charm gained another Charm when played? Right now, Illumination Charm is normally the one you want the fewest of. This would give you more incentive to take them and play them even after you're done trashing. Perhaps also reduce the number of cards you trash to 2?

You could have to buy Life Charm first, and then only be able to gain the other ones.

[jamespotter]

Okay, it seems the consensus is that these are a bit weak. I want to keep the main concept intact, so here are my suggested fixes:

Illumination Charm
Action-Charm
$3
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. Gain a Charm.

I think this one is well balanced, so I'm leaving it as is. Note that it really only reduces your deck size by 2 because you gain a charm.

Growth Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+3 cards
Reveal your hand. If there are any action cards in it, discard 2 cards.
Gain a Charm.

This may be too powerful, but I think it is unique, and because you have to gain a charm each time, you can't just play this as a cheaper smithy.

Life Charm
Action-Charm
$3
+2 actions
Look at the top card of your deck. You may discard it or put it back.
Gain a Charm.

This obviously interacts with tons of other cards, so I think it's a bit stronger.

Let me know what you think of these revisions.

[zahlman]

The problem with Illumination Charm is that you only want one, so the Charm pile normally won't run out but most of it will be gone, and then you basically just have a few dead cards sitting there for tactical purposes. Worse, since the Charm gain is mandatory, playing Charm later on eventually gets penalized by having to pick up a useless Illumination Charm. (I guess this is mitigated by being able to use them on each other...)

My thought is to make them more expensive, and then basically have Remodel Charm, Village Charm and Woodcutter Charm.

[SirPeebles]

I'm really liking the charm idea, but what is your vision for them?  It seems like you want three short stacks which count as a single "pile", and that they should automatically gain you additional charms.  These both seem like interesting mechanics to me.

But beyond that?  Are they intended to be relatively junky, or ought that be rather good?  The mandatory gain feels reminiscent of Rats to me.  In the proper deck it's precisely this gaining that makes them so useful, but without a plan it's a perilous trap.

It seems that the initial batch was considered too weak (or more precisely, too situational).  One way to fix this is to make their actions more powerful, but that may go too far for self gaining objects.  Raising their price too much would risk morphing them into self replicating TfB pinatas.

Perhaps keep them weak, but make them Action-Victory-Charm with a single VP each?  Then accumulating a bunch of them at least gives some points.  (It also give some sweet, sweet Scout synergy.  Though Crossroads is likely still better.)

Perhaps the Illumination Charm could be made more attractive by giving Charms nice "on-trash" effects.