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[GendoIkari]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

[Titandrake]

Hinterlands wasn't out yet, so aside from Black Market Hoard would only trigger when you bought the Victory card. So for that gap between Prosperity and Hinterlands, on-gain would be a more obtuse way of saying the same thing.

But really, I don't know. LIke you said, it's not a major difference either way.

[SirPeebles]

Talisman

[eHalcyon]

Talisman

Talisman doesn't let you gain Victory cards, so you won't get any extra Gold off of Hoard from that.

[SirPeebles]

Oh, right 

[Tables]

Oh, right 

If it's any consolation, I did worse, but deleted the post very quickly. I was still half asleep, read the thread, and just said Harem. My logic was, if you buy a Harem, then you gain a Harem from Hoard, so Hoard makes you gain a Harem from it, so Hoard makes you gain a Harem...

You can see the extremely obvious flaw

[Young Nick]

Talisman

Talisman doesn't let you gain Victory cards, so you won't get any extra Gold off of Hoard from that.

Yeah, I was about to say Haggler. Oops.

[jsh357]

Hoard/Border Village/Duchy would be pretty crazy

[jonts26]

Hoard/Border Village/Duchy would be pretty crazy

Only if you have a use for the Border Villages. Otherwise, it's the same as Hoard/Duchy.

[Donald X.]

I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

I don't remember the specific reason, but at the time Haggler was like "when you gain a card other than via a Haggler," which would have obv. been a problem. It's not so compelling in general to have a treasure have "while in play, when gain" rather than "while in play, when buy" since there are few ways to gain cards during the buy phase. Royal Seal was "while in play, when buy" for a while, but changed to line up with Watchtower.

[werothegreat]

I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

I don't remember the specific reason, but at the time Haggler was like "when you gain a card other than via a Haggler," which would have obv. been a problem. It's not so compelling in general to have a treasure have "while in play, when gain" rather than "while in play, when buy" since there are few ways to gain cards during the buy phase. Royal Seal was "while in play, when buy" for a while, but changed to line up with Watchtower.

This allows you to Royal Seal a Hoard'd Gold.

[LastFootnote]

I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

I don't remember the specific reason, but at the time Haggler was like "when you gain a card other than via a Haggler," which would have obv. been a problem. It's not so compelling in general to have a treasure have "while in play, when gain" rather than "while in play, when buy" since there are few ways to gain cards during the buy phase. Royal Seal was "while in play, when buy" for a while, but changed to line up with Watchtower.

This allows you to Royal Seal a Hoard'd Gold.

It also avoids crazy situations like buying a Gold, putting it on top of your deck with Royal seal, then revealing a Trader. What would happen?

EDIT: To specify, Royal Seal is on-buy rather than on-gain in this example.

[ftl]

trader would have to be revealed first - it's when you WOULD GAIN something, you gain a silver INSTEAD.

So if you've already gained the gold, you can't then reveal the trader to gain something instead.

[zahlman]

trader would have to be revealed first - it's when you WOULD GAIN something, you gain a silver INSTEAD.

So if you've already gained the gold, you can't then reveal the trader to gain something instead.

I think LastFootnote's point is that this works and is sane, because 'gain' time happens after 'would gain' time; but if Royal Seal were on-buy, 'buy' time happens before 'would gain' time.

I'm pretty sure that is covered by the lose-track rule, though.

Except, actually, now that I think about it more, you can't really have a rule that says "when you buy a card, put it on top of your deck" because you're being asked to put "it" on top of your deck at 'buy' time, and at 'buy' time you haven't gained "it" yet. So this is trying to count your blue dogs before they're hatched, or something.

[LastFootnote]

Except, actually, now that I think about it more, you can't really have a rule that says "when you buy a card, put it on top of your deck" because you're being asked to put "it" on top of your deck at 'buy' time, and at 'buy' time you haven't gained "it" yet. So this is trying to count your blue dogs before they're hatched, or something.

Bingo. Exactly the point I was making. On-buy effects can't really move the bought card without opening a can of worms rules-wise.

[pedroluchini]

Hinterlands wasn't out yet, so aside from Black Market Hoard would only trigger when you bought the Victory card.

I thought getting cards from the Black Market counted as "buying" them... That's what it says on the card and it's how I've been playing it. Have I been playing it wrong? (E.g., buy an Island from the BM deck -> gain Gold from Hoard)

[Morgrim7]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

Wait...Hoard on gain? Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, but that means that you would have to buy a Hoard and something else that was a victory card on the same turn, correct?

[Rabid]

Hinterlands wasn't out yet, so aside from Black Market Hoard would only trigger when you bought the Victory card.

I thought getting cards from the Black Market counted as "buying" them... That's what it says on the card and it's how I've been playing it. Have I been playing it wrong? (E.g., buy an Island from the BM deck -> gain Gold from Hoard)

You have been playing correctly.
This questions is about what would happen if the rules were different.

If hoard read: while this is in play, if you gain a green card gain a gold.
Then you could play hoard with Black Market.
Then play workshop to gain an estate and also gain a gold from hoard as it is still in play.

This doesn't work because hoard only triggers on Buy, not on gain.

What you can do is use black market to play quarry, reducing the cost of actions.
Then play Workshop to gain Market.

[michaeljb]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

Wait...Hoard on gain? Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, but that means that you would have to buy a Hoard and something else that was a victory card on the same turn, correct?

The discussion here is about if Hoard said something like "While this is in play, when you gain a victory card, gain a Gold," not anything having to do with when Hoard itself is gained.

[Morgrim7]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

Wait...Hoard on gain? Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, but that means that you would have to buy a Hoard and something else that was a victory card on the same turn, correct?

The discussion here is about if Hoard said something like "While this is in play, when you gain a victory card, gain a Gold," not anything having to do with when Hoard itself is gained.

ahhh....right.

that would be absolutely insane with Black Market and KC-gainer.

[michaeljb]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

Wait...Hoard on gain? Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, but that means that you would have to buy a Hoard and something else that was a victory card on the same turn, correct?

The discussion here is about if Hoard said something like "While this is in play, when you gain a victory card, gain a Gold," not anything having to do with when Hoard itself is gained.

ahhh....right.

that would be absolutely insane with Black Market and KC-gainer.

Woah. That would be nuts...on the other hand, that's 3 specific cards plus a gainer. And King's Court makes a ton of things crazy anyway, so now I'm already thinking that's not as awesome as when I first read it haha. The usual Tunnel shenanigans are probably better at getting you Gold than this wacky combo anyway.

[Morgrim7]

The other day Donald said that in general, on-gain is more fun than on-buy, so he generally only chose on-buy when there was a good reason (Noble Brigand being on-gain would have caused things like Jester to have to be played in slow-motion, for example). If hoard were on-gain, it would be slightly more powerful, but there's only a handful of combos where it would make any difference. (Black Market, Horn of Plenty, and Farmland, Border Village... Any others?) of, and it would be less powerful with Trader and Posession around. I doubt that version of Hoard would be overpowered... So why not on-gain?

Wait...Hoard on gain? Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, but that means that you would have to buy a Hoard and something else that was a victory card on the same turn, correct?

The discussion here is about if Hoard said something like "While this is in play, when you gain a victory card, gain a Gold," not anything having to do with when Hoard itself is gained.

ahhh....right.

that would be absolutely insane with Black Market and KC-gainer.

Woah. That would be nuts...on the other hand, that's 3 specific cards plus a gainer. And King's Court makes a ton of things crazy anyway, so now I'm already thinking that's not as awesome as when I first read it haha. The usual Tunnel shenanigans are probably better at getting you Gold than this wacky combo anyway.

true, and even if you managed to pull it off, it could only gain you max 10 gold. and without +buy and +cards that is all useless.