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[Captain_Frisk]

I think the survey was good. The thing is this. Talking about the survey here would most likely end up being "Boo! I don't want to play with Facebook Friends, I want it to be like iso!"

I mean, if there would be a poll about the optimal number of players in a Dominion game here, I think 2 would win by a far margin. Looking over at Board Game Geek the same poll would give a different result.

Code: [Select]

Best          Recommended Not Recommended
1 1.0% (5) 3.6% (18) 95.4% (480)    
2 34.5% (280) 58.5% (475) 7.0% (57)    
3 55.9% (462) 43.2% (357) 1.0% (8)    
4 43.1% (353) 51.8% (424) 5.1% (42)    
4+ 2.6% (13) 22.4% (110) 74.9% (368)       

Lekkit, you know I love you, but I'd also like to take issue with the results of this survey.

First, the total # of "Best" doesn't add up to 100%.

Second, you have to wonder who the target market is.  Are "casual" gamers going to buy all of the expansions and drop $30-40 on gokoins?

Also, I've played a ton on BSW - which is a close analog to the iso implementation, and that userbase was also very heavily weighted to 2p games.  I loved BSW (> 1k games played), until I saw how much better you could do with intelligent matchmaking in an environment where everyone has all the cards.

I think you'll find that face to face, 3 / 4 player games are loads of fun because you're socializing, drinking a beer, talking about how disgusting your friends SO's are etc.

Online, sitting alone in a dark room in front of a computer, (i think) people prefer the 2p experience because it keeps them playing the game, instead of waiting for 3 other players to take their turn.

When the social experience is removed, the problem of downtime is magnified - hence the requests for async play etc.

When I log into iso - there are hundreds of games going, and there are 8,000 people ranked on the leaderboard.  I think its reasonable to try to cater to this market, especially when the requests are relatively straight forward:

1. Better matchmaking (skill based, let me see what cards are avail)
2. Fix the UI so that I can simultaneously do the following:
a. Chat with my opponent
b. See what they are doing
3. Implement all the cards
4. Fix your bugs

Now there's a longer wishlist

1. Pro games should also count for the casual leaderboard (so that there's more information when people are making game decisions)
2. Pro games shouldn't be able to be played against bots (high ranked players have inflated rankings due to bot play, which discourages real life play because of fear of ranking loss)
3. I'd like to not be limited to a lobby size of 50, especially when players who are playing the game are still in the lobby
4. Avatars look stupid
5. My music preferences are not retained between computers, between builds etc.  I want to punch a dolphin every time I have to turn off that dumb music
6. If the app isn't playable on pads / phones / etc. etc. etc., then it should at least attempt to take advantage of the system that it is on... the PC... where most people have monitors bigger than 1024 x 768

[Mecherath]

The survey adds up to 100% across rows, not columns.  Basically for each number of players, you have to say it's Best, Recommended, or not Recommended.  This is a bit confusing because only one number of players can be Best, while you can recommend or not recommend any number of things.

If you lump in Best with Recommended and just look at which number of players is the least Not-Recommended, 3-Player wins, followed by 4-player and then 2-player.  So not much different than leaving Best as it is after all.

I'm with you on dolphin-punching music though.

[Lekkit]

Yes, I think "casual" gamers will actually buy gokoins. I don't see why they shouldn't. People pay for stuff. Just look at Apple Store and Play Market.

Personally I prefer 3 player over 2 player. I think the game becomes more fun with 3 players. I still love the game in 2 player settings as well. The reason I prefer 3 player over 2 player is because I feel like most of the cards are made with 3 players in mind. The mechanics of the game works better in a 3 player game. To me there's a difference between what I prefer to play, and what I think makes the game best.

There were fields in the survey where you could write what you didn't like about Goko. I think there should've been just one field where you could put down a bunch of stuff, and not three of them.

You know I love you too, C_F.

[Tables]

The survey adds up to 100% across rows, not columns.  Basically for each number of players, you have to say it's Best, Recommended, or not Recommended.  This is a bit confusing because only one number of players can be Best, while you can recommend or not recommend any number of things.

If you lump in Best with Recommended and just look at which number of players is the least Not-Recommended, 3-Player wins, followed by 4-player and then 2-player.  So not much different than leaving Best as it is after all.

I'm with you on dolphin-punching music though.

Actually, you can rate any number of players as best. It's probably good not to try of think of best here as literally meaning 'best', it's more just 'highly recommended'. For example I think I've rated Dominion best with 2, 3, recommended 4-6 (yes I like 4-6 player games, as long as you're careful with the kingdom).

[Lashof]

Well, Donald has stated that Goko can't create their own cards without him. I hope that still holds true. That being said, there are a few scenarios in which I'd be OK with Goko-exclusive cards.

1. Cards that wouldn't work in real life. Donald has said that this is the only way he would create online-only cards. Since Dominion is a card game, I'd prefer not to see cards like this, but I wouldn't be upset if they existed, especially if they did cool stuff.
...

Donald already made this card, it's called Black Market.

[Kuildeous]

Donald already made this card, it's called Black Market.

Hell, I'd argue that Philosopher's Stone is also a far better card to play online than in person. I generally don't buy the card because I don't want to count my deck and discard every time it shows up in a turn.

An online-only card could be even crazier.

[Insomniac]

Well, Donald has stated that Goko can't create their own cards without him. I hope that still holds true. That being said, there are a few scenarios in which I'd be OK with Goko-exclusive cards.

1. Cards that wouldn't work in real life. Donald has said that this is the only way he would create online-only cards. Since Dominion is a card game, I'd prefer not to see cards like this, but I wouldn't be upset if they existed, especially if they did cool stuff.
...

Donald already made this card, it's called Black Market.

Call me crazy but I have on multiple occasions set up a RL black market deck without computer aid and enjoyed playing the resulting game more than online.

[jsh357]

I like playing with the entire Randomizer deck as the Black Market IRL.  Very cumbersome, but hilarity often ensues.  It's my favorite 'promo' promo card.

[Insomniac]

It's a web app!  It is supposed to run every where right?

I just don't understand why they are thinking about Facebook integration when I couldn't even play 5 games without one player being disconnected.

It doesn't. Also the point of an app is to have offline play theoretically and be more light on your data plan as you have the images stored ahead of time

[Captain_Frisk]

It's a web app!  It is supposed to run every where right?

I just don't understand why they are thinking about Facebook integration when I couldn't even play 5 games without one player being disconnected.

It doesn't. Also the point of an app is to have offline play theoretically and be more light on your data plan as you have the images stored ahead of time

I know it doesn't!  It was snark!  Didn't DXV say this is why Jay selected them... because of the power of HTML5 and its ability to run everywhere!

[Insomniac]

It's a web app!  It is supposed to run every where right?

I just don't understand why they are thinking about Facebook integration when I couldn't even play 5 games without one player being disconnected.

It doesn't. Also the point of an app is to have offline play theoretically and be more light on your data plan as you have the images stored ahead of time

I know it doesn't!  It was snark!  Didn't DXV say this is why Jay selected them... because of the power of HTML5 and its ability to run everywhere!

Ahh, well HTML5 can run everywhere if you do it right, and Phonegap can turn it into a native app (runs in a wrapper)

[Beyond Awesome]

It's a web app!  It is supposed to run every where right?

I just don't understand why they are thinking about Facebook integration when I couldn't even play 5 games without one player being disconnected.

It doesn't. Also the point of an app is to have offline play theoretically and be more light on your data plan as you have the images stored ahead of time

I know it doesn't!  It was snark!  Didn't DXV say this is why Jay selected them... because of the power of HTML5 and its ability to run everywhere!

Ahh, well HTML5 can run everywhere if you do it right, and Phonegap can turn it into a native app (runs in a wrapper)

I really wonder who they hired to build their game. I mean, so much of it seems so amateur. Did they just hire anyone who turned in an application to them?

[TWoos]

I like playing with the entire Randomizer deck as the Black Market IRL.  Very cumbersome, but hilarity often ensues.  It's my favorite 'promo' promo card.

I like doing this too, but I sometimes (frequently?) forget to pull out the actual card until I spot a randomizer back in someone's hand.

[Serialian]

I play with the randomizer deck and don't pull the cards. I thought it was an odd quirk that the backs were different sort of the way that stash is different. You know it's a black market card in the other guy's hand... you just have no idea which.

It isn't officially in the rules, but it makes for an easier house rule and a fairly sane setup.

[Beyond Awesome]

I play with the randomizer deck and don't pull the cards. I thought it was an odd quirk that the backs were different sort of the way that stash is different. You know it's a black market card in the other guy's hand... you just have no idea which.

It isn't officially in the rules, but it makes for an easier house rule and a fairly sane setup.

Donald X. doesn't use the randomizers. Instead, he has a stack of 9 kingdom cards and then uses the 10th card for the randomizer and then puts it with the kingdom when selected.

[Tables]

I have to say, I am very tempted to use that method. Might switch to it if my card box isn't quite big enough.

[jsh357]

We just use the randomizers and punch each other if we look while shuffling.  In a 'real' match, I suppose that wouldn't work.  The only card you really have to dig out of the box that way is Knights.

[Kirian]

It's a web app!  It is supposed to run every where right?

I just don't understand why they are thinking about Facebook integration when I couldn't even play 5 games without one player being disconnected.

It doesn't. Also the point of an app is to have offline play theoretically and be more light on your data plan as you have the images stored ahead of time

I know it doesn't!  It was snark!  Didn't DXV say this is why Jay selected them... because of the power of HTML5 and its ability to run everywhere!

Goko:  Games that go a few places, when they don't crash.

[pinkymadigan]

We just use the randomizers and punch each other if we look while shuffling.

You play ping pong on Feng's table, don't you?

[jsh357]

We just use the randomizers and punch each other if we look while shuffling.

You play ping pong on Feng's table, don't you?

I would insert a Reboot quote but I can't think of any