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Beyond Awesome

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Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« on: November 18, 2012, 01:02:46 am »
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I know everyone hasn't played with DA yet because of Goko. For me, playing online has been the only means of playing DA, and Goko does not even have the entire set released yet! With that said, for those who have had an opportunity to play with Dark Ages, what are your opinions on the cards now.

I will start.

Beggar: Much better than I thought it would be. Not a great card though, but it is actually a decent counter in cursing games. The average game I would say I revealed Beggar about 2.5 times. That's a good amount of silver for a $2. And, gaining three coppers comes in quite handy end game. However, I would say Beggar is average for its cost. It's not super powerful, but isn't weak like Secret Chamber (although that card has its uses).

IronMonger: This card is pretty amazing. A very strong card. I usually buy three or four on most boards. I can only think of a couple or so games where I didn't buy it.

Count: A power $5 for sure. Is it up there with Wharf, IGG, Witch, and the like? It's close. Count is a very versatile card that is quite handy.

Cultist: Another power $5. I am not sure where it ranks among Witch, Mountebank, and itself. Curses hurt your deck more, but man these guys are fast. I love em!

Death Cart: I actually avoid this most games and win when my opponents buy it. I think this is a trap most often. The board has to be right for it. It is a nice counter to Cultist, however.

Wandering Minstrel: In a deck where you want to get to certain actions quick, this card is great. It is also good for setting up engines. Just don't overbuy it. A strong village up there with Worker's Village and Mining Village for $4.

Fortress: Yawn. I know some people love this card, but the board needs to be right. Otherwise, it is a $4 vanilla village. At least Walled Village returns to the top of your deck half the time! Don't get me wrong. You can do some neat tricks with Fortress, but most often, a stronger village will be on the board.

Rats: These are decent. It can be a bit tricky knowing when to buy them or when to best play them. But, they have their uses. On most boards, they can be avoided. Not good. Not terrible, assuming you don't misplay them. Average to slightly below average $4 card.

Band of Misfits: On most boards, this card is so-so. Some boards, the $4 and under cards are amazing and BoM is a great buy. Most often, it is worth purchasing other $5 instead. For the most part, I will say this is an average $5 card and very board dependent.

Procession: You can do neat stuff with this card, but most often TR is better. You have to really map out your strategy when buying this card. For now, I will declare this an average $4 card. But, I will admit, I am a bit scared when it comes to buying this card. I just kind of avoid it almost all the time. In other words, I need more practice using this card to really grasp it.

Catacombs: Really, really amazing card drawer! Amazing in big money decks. I do think though Torturer is slightly better for a $5 draw three card.

Forager: This is the Trade Route I always wanted. +Action makes all the difference. Overall, I will say this is a pretty strong $3 card. It is good at removing curses and in games with additional money like Talisman or whatever, these things can be worth $4 or more. Just be careful because your opponent can take advantage of your hard work.

Junk Dealer: This card is awesome. It is up there in terms of power. In my opinion, this is an Upgrade from Upgrade (pun intended).

Market Square: This is a good source of +Buy because it is not terminal. Also, if good trashing is available, this combos really well for gold. Not an amazing $3 but not bad either. Slightly above average.

Scavenger: This is really good in BM decks. It also has combo uses. Someone needs to run some simulators and see what is better, BM Smithy or BM Scavenger. Running two or three of these in your deck and some gold is a solid strategy. I like this card a lot. But, it can be tricky to use depending on the board.

Pillage: This is a tricky card, but getting two Spoils is a nice pay off. Essentially, it reads for $5, look at your opponents hand, make him discard his best card, and gain two golds that you use only once. So, it is pretty decent, but the trick is knowing when is the best time to buy this card. It is strongest bought mid-game. Late game and you need to be greening and not buying this, plus the spoils have to wait for the next shuffle. If you use it the early game, you risk not having much of an impact on your opponents hand. But, I like this card.

Bandit Camp: This is a strong village. I think some people overrate it. The spoils are one shot and need to hit the reshuffle. On some boards, Bazaar is better, on other boards, this is a better card. I have noticed most people on Goko will avoid Bazaar in favor of this, and that is not always the right play. But, overall, Bandit Camp is a solid village, and I think we will debate for a long, long time which is better: Bazaar or Bandit Camp

Altar: This is a solid $6 card. I almost always buy one of these first over the first gold. It's ability to trash curses and other junk and turn them to $5 cards is an amazing and strong ability. Though, you usually don't need more than 1 or 2 of these in your deck. For me, I think this might rank just behind Goons and KC. Overall, I feel that having one of these is better than having a GM in your deck.

Armory: Umm... Most of the time this isn't great. It is actually usually worse than Workshop. It does have its uses such as topdecking Caravans. But, in a Gardens rush, you would rather have Workshop instead. Ironworks is still the king though when it comes to gainers.

Sage: An excellent $3. This card is really great at making sure you hit your cards. A solid opening is either a good $4 and Sage or Sage Silver and then buying things like Wharf and when you hit three just buy Sage. Pretty much, you will hit your good cards with a much higher frequency. Sage is up there in terms of $3 cost cards. Some people will compare this to Scheme, but I think in a lot of cases, this is much more solid because it will always hit something whereas Scheme is just +1 card +1 Action

Vagrant: Not good. Not bad. But, most often, if you hit $2, you will want to pick this one up. It does shine though if there is curing and looting going on in the same game. Sadly, this is what Scout should have been and at half the cost. Oops, did I mention Scout? My bad.

Feodum: Hmm....I honestly haven't figured this card out yet. Alt. VPs take some time to get used to.

Mystic: I usually avoid this card. It seems okay, but I always feel the other $5 on the board are better to purchase. So, I really need to playtest this more.

Rebuild: This is a tricky card. It is good at ending the game, but sometimes going for a straight up BM strategy will prevail over the Rebuild strategy. The thing about Rebuild is that it quickens the game, but the increase in points is not that large. You trash an estate get two points by getting a ducky, trash a duchy and you have increased your lead by 3 points when you get a Province. It is a card to be aware of on boards, but there might also be a better strategy available as well.

The other cards...Sadly, Squire and my Hermit friend aren't available to play with on Goko just yet. So, I can't say how they are. But, I am excited to play with the remaining 11 cards once I get the chance.

So, for those of you who have now had a chance to play a fair number of DA games, what are your thoughts on the cards?

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ehunt

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 01:19:34 am »
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I think death cart is quite strong, but I've only played IRL. Do others disagree? Like Baron, it is game-losingly swingy on the first shuffle; unlike Baron, it's very good for the majority of the game.
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brokoli

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 02:52:14 am »
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Death cart is VERY strong, really. Even if you play it and trash it immediately, 5$ is huge. Clearly in the top 10 of the best 4$ IMO.

I thought cultist was overpowered, but now I really like this card, very interesting strategically.
I thought poor house was very strong, and I already underrated it. This card is super powerful.

I really underrated altar, but it's pretty decent in fact.
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dondon151

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 03:25:40 am »
+1

Death cart is VERY strong, really. Even if you play it and trash it immediately, 5$ is huge. Clearly in the top 10 of the best 4$ IMO.

If one guy keeps his Death Cart and the other doesn't, then player 1 is up 1 Death Cart and player 2 is up one Ruins. Looks like a super swingy opening to me. Not that it means that it's necessarily bad, but in the worst case scenario where you lose your Death Cart... you get, what, a $7 cost card in exchange for having 2 more Ruins in your deck than the other player? Considering that most of the power cards are at $5 anyway, I don't really see the point.

I guess you could argue that it's worth trying to get to an early Platinum.
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aaron0013

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 08:44:06 am »
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Death cart is VERY strong, really. Even if you play it and trash it immediately, 5$ is huge. Clearly in the top 10 of the best 4$ IMO.

If one guy keeps his Death Cart and the other doesn't, then player 1 is up 1 Death Cart and player 2 is up one Ruins. Looks like a super swingy opening to me. Not that it means that it's necessarily bad, but in the worst case scenario where you lose your Death Cart... you get, what, a $7 cost card in exchange for having 2 more Ruins in your deck than the other player? Considering that most of the power cards are at $5 anyway, I don't really see the point.

I guess you could argue that it's worth trying to get to an early Platinum.

You don't ever have to lose your death cart.  If I drew it on turn 3 or 4 without a ruins, I probably wouldn't play it.  But that does put you quite a bit behind...
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jsh357

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 10:05:31 am »
+2

This is all from IRL experience mostly, but with some Androminion play as well.

Bandit Camp - Seems like it's not as effective as you'd think a lot of the time.  Getting a delayed $3 is often worse than getting $1 right away.  On the other hand, $3 is still $3.  Big opportunity cost for this card at $5.

Beggar - Often way better than I'd think, for basically having the opposite effect of Bandit Camp.  $3 right away, crappier hands later.  If you do that late in the game, it doesn't even matter.  I don't think it's a power $2, though.

Catacombs - An amazing terminal draw BM enabler, not much else to say about it.  Cycling 6 cards is fantastic sometimes.  I have yet to use the on trash effect.

Count - Seems very strong if you can get them early.  Obvious synergy with Duke and Silk Road, but even the trashing and $3 options are also quite good and the drawbacks often don't matter a whole bunch.  I also think it will be a power card.

Counterfeit - While using it to trash Copper is OK, trashing big Treasure is where this card really shines in my experience.  Trashing a Platinum nets you $11 and a buy, often worth the loss of a Platinum.  Chaining Counterfeits can lead to ridiculously good turns too.  A very solid card, probably not in the top 10 $5 costers but close.

Feodum - Much better than I expected as long as there is some other way to gain Silvers.  Losing Feodums early doesn't hurt much, but trashing them later for Silver does. 

Graverobber - I just don't think this is very good as a proactive card.  It's great if the opponent is trashing your power cards, and getting Provinces out of $5 cost cards is nice, but for general usage I'll probably avoid it.

Hermit / Madman - Gaining a $3 card is the worst part of the deal generally.  An excellent trasher, and Madmen are fantastic.  The thing is, you really don't want to have the Hermit forever anyway, so I tend to cash it in for a Madman early.  You need +Buy to make Madman a good "finisher" card, but it can help you purchase high cost cards early in the game or draw lots of cards you want to play/trash regardless.

Hunting Grounds - Seems strong to me.  As long as you can afford to draw cards dead or have a ton of villages, drawing 4 cards can be huge for you.  Not sure about the trashing effect, which has never come up for me, but it seems good as well.

Junk Dealer - While this is definitely good, I don't think it's better than Upgrade--they're apples and oranges anyway. 

Marauder - A bit like Sea Hag except you can continue gaining Spoils after the Ruins are out.  That said, I don't think giving Ruins out is nearly as effective as Curses.  They are more entertaining to play with, though.  Marauder is a card I often want to phase out with a trash for benefit card later on.

Market Square - I disagree with the OP, I think this is a power $3.  The Gold gaining effect is superior to Tunnel's as long as there is an enabler on the board, as trashing increases the likelihood that MS will be in the hand to see future trashing.  Even if you don't use that effect, $3 for a non-terminal +Buy card (remember Hamlet?) is a great deal and can save an engine that needed it.  The +Buy also greatly benefits the Gold-gaining deck.  You don't want to overbuy Market Square (much like Tunnel in that regard) but I have found it a key card in many decks I've made with it in the Kingdom.

Mystic - Certainly undervalued in a lot of analysis I've seen.  If you have any card that gives you knowledge of upcoming cards (including enemy attacks like Spy or Scrying Pool), Mystic is great to have in hand.  With trashing, Mystics become very easy to chain as well.  They are like Conspirators that don't need 2 Actions played beforehand but require a bit of deck knowledge.  Players who are already used to using Wishing Well effectively can use this one similarly.  That said, they're maybe just an average $5 card.  There's a lot of competition there.

Rats - I am just not seeing it most of the time.  Even combos I think will be great kick me in the face.  I haven't given up on this card, as it's a lot of fun to play with, but I'm going to need to see it to believe it.

Rebuild - I don't think this is very good, honestly, for reasons the OP states.  It doesn't gain you many points on play, and essentially just empties piles.  If you're already in control of the game, that's great, but often you are not.

Rogue - This card seems rather complex to me.  It really kind of does its own thing.  The trash will almost always have no good cards in it when Rogue's around because it will keep snatching things up.  You also hit cards you don't want a lot, like Silver.  Probably good vs. Engines? 

Ruins - They don't hurt you as much as you'd expect sometimes.  Abandoned Mine and Abandoned Market can be lifesavers, and Survivors is sometimes not terrible.  There are also cards that enjoy having the extra Actions, like Scrying Pool, Vineyard and Death Cart.

Sage - It's pretty average.  Doesn't help you much late, can trigger bad reshuffles early, but skipping Coppers is nice midgame.

Scavenger - Holy crap, Chancellor just became awesome.  Choosing a card to topdeck and then reshuffling is plain killer.  It reminds me of Computer Search from the Pokemon TCG: Gets you what you need when you need it.

Spoils - Seem better than Silver on average.  Oddly, I find myself using them to buy Gold more than anything else.

Squire - While it seems amazing for its cost, I think Squire is easy to overestimate.  Gaining a good attack is only useful in some Kingdoms (Goons, Familiar).  The 3 effects are nice (I haven't got much out of 2 Buys, but gaining a Buy is good in itself) but no +Card means you have to have some kind of support FOR Squire to truly make it shine, a property usually reserved for more powerful cards.  Maybe in the top 5 $2 cost cards, though.

Urchin / Mercenary - Urchin is pretty ineffectual, but Mercenary rocks.  Trashing cards, getting good money hands, making people discard, what's not to like?  Well, it's hard to play later on in the game sometimes.   I usually will only pick up 1 Mercenary and maybe use Urchin as a cantrip for other reasons.  These cards are pretty good, but maybe not in the top tier of options at their price point.

Vagrant - I have found it's usually a good filler card and nothing more, aside from foreknowledge combos.  A bit like Pearl Diver only slightly better usually.


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werothegreat

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 01:27:59 pm »
+1

Most of these cards can't really be judged in and of themselves - most of them are built strictly for effective combinations.  Rats, Fortress and Death Cart all depend on other cards being on the board, but when those other cards are there, they are dominant.  Death Cart alone = meh.  Rats alone = murr.   Death Cart + Rats = I win.
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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 01:31:20 pm »
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I generally agree with most of what's been said, and I'll add a few more comments.

Forager can be very strong when there are extra treasure stacks (and don't forget potion), especially if there are also +actions. But if your Foragers run into Rogues, well, then forget it.

Trashing Feodums can provide great bursts of silver to counter Thief/Pirate Ship/Noble Brigand attacks.

Vagrants can be really good if you have +buys. Buy one at a time with your leftover cash from more important purchases. Then in numbers they're great for filtering green, especially toward the end of the game.

Chris
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dondon151

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 07:20:47 pm »
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Death Cart alone = meh.  Rats alone = murr.   Death Cart + Rats = I win.

I know that conlanging is a hobby of yours, but what kind of language uses "meh" and "murr" for "I" and "win"...
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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 11:29:50 pm »
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Death Cart alone = meh.  Rats alone = murr.   Death Cart + Rats = I win.

I know that conlanging is a hobby of yours, but what kind of language uses "meh" and "murr" for "I" and "win"...

werothegreat's
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werothegreat

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 12:04:29 am »
+1

Death Cart alone = meh.  Rats alone = murr.   Death Cart + Rats = I win.

I know that conlanging is a hobby of yours, but what kind of language uses "meh" and "murr" for "I" and "win"...

The sum is greater than the whole of its parts.  Think of it more like multiplication than addition.
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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 01:13:56 am »
+3

The sum is greater than the whole of its parts.
Uh,
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PitzerMike

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 08:14:04 am »
+1

Rebuild definitely looks more innocent than it is.
From my experience a very basic 3 Rebuild + a few silvers strategy beats all the baseline strategies like BM+X or Double Jack handily because it's just so fast. You need almost no economy, just enough to get 5$ for a few Rebuilds and possibly a few extra duchies. You can also add in one or two terminals like militia to slow down your opponent, setting the bar really high for competing strategies.
However it can be stopped quite easily by adjusting slightly. Just get a single Rebuild and turn the 3 starting estates into duchies + buy a fourth duchy while you can and you should be fine going for any other strategy. Alternate VP may complicate things of course. It definitely looks like a great Duke enabler.

Also Wandering Minstrel was just ridiculous in the few games I've played with it. There was one Scrying Pool + Vineyards game, then a Pirate Ship game with some +buy (I think Market Square), and one with Bridge. In all of these Wandering Minstrel was a huge game changer. I'd also imagine it'd be a great Conspirator enabler.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 08:19:39 am by PitzerMike »
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aaron0013

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 08:16:59 am »
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Death Cart alone = meh.  Rats alone = murr.   Death Cart + Rats = I win.

I know that conlanging is a hobby of yours, but what kind of language uses "meh" and "murr" for "I" and "win"...

The sum is greater than the whole of its parts.  Think of it more like multiplication than addition.

The whole is equal to the sum of its parts, and the whole is greater than any of its parts...it still doesn't make any sense :o
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werothegreat

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 04:02:45 pm »
+1

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 12:26:39 am »
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Does Death Cart + Fortress work well?
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werothegreat

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2012, 12:39:06 am »
+1

Does Death Cart + Fortress work well?

If you have +Buy.
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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2012, 01:53:43 am »
+1

Now, that all of DA has been released, I am finding that some of the cards are making me think too hard. So many choices. I guess that is a good thing instead of having a straight up obvious strategy. I feel that Hinterlands and Dark Ages by far add the most strategy to the game and reward more skilled playing. With that said, I have been playing fairly poorly with the newly released cards. Of course, part of that is because I want to play with the shiny new objects and try and see if they will do cool things and then fail miserably.
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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 02:29:27 am »
+2

So, I will add some more thoughts. I can say I have not played an adequate amount of games with the last 3rd of DA that Goko release, so I am certain that my opinions on cards will change.

So, here we go.

Hermit/Madman--This is a power $3. It is one of the best trashers in the game because it can trash from the discard. I find usually two of these are enough. Like Jack, it trashes, and it trashes even harder than Jack. Unlike, Jack, it doesn't draw you back to 5. But, you can always forgo a buy and gain a silver or another Hermit and get a Madman in exchange. I am not 100% sure when to get Madman, but it is a pretty nifty card. Overall, I would say Hermit is up there with the power trashers that aren't Chapel.

Counterfit--I love this card! I didn't think I would like it so much until I started playing with it. Having two in a deck sounds about right. It really helps out BM strategies and it even helps engine decks get a little extra more money while clearing out those junk coppers. Also, the +Buy comes in quite handy for those engines. A really good card, but not a top tier $5 card. It does cost $5 which is more than Spice Merchant and Moneylender, but the fact it is non-terminal and guarantees +Buy and Coin, makes it worth it.

Urchin/Mercenary--Urchin is beyond weak. Worst attack in the game, period. It almost never hurts you. However, Mercenary is strong, but it isn't Followers which I thought it would be like at first. Followers is the best curser in the game without question. Mercenary doesn't dish out curses and that makes all the difference. It is a good trasher, but I would take pretty much any trasher over it. The fact that you have to trash before drawing hurts at times and I find myself not playing it as much as I would like. It is a strong card, but you lose a good $3 buy and then have to match Urchin up with another attack, sometimes another Urchin. It is essentially Militia with trashing that is hard to set up. My thoughts, just buy Militia and money instead. Maybe, I'm wrong though.

Knights--It really depends on the board for these guys. Overall, I would say they are stronger than Saboteur because the benefit they give you makes up for the fact they only look at the top two and can't hit Provinces. If you need +Buy, then Sir Martin is a needed purchase. The 2VP one is worth getting because 2VP is always nice and it attacks as well. I won't go through them individually, but like I said, it really depends on the board. You really shouldn't buy it for the attack, but the bonus the top Knight of the pile offers. For example, the +$2 can work amazingly well in a Hunting Party deck as your terminal $2 while hurting destroying your opponents Hunting Parties. Overall, I would say Knights are an average $5 card.

Squire--This looks better than it is, but it is still strong. The fact that it doesn't draw you card is a huge drawback. Sometimes, it is a copper that gains you a silver. Most of the time, you should not try to build an engine with these unless there is some sort of other Village as well. For BM, it is a Workshop essentially that gives you an extra $. For engines, if you find yourself needing extra cash, you gain a silver. The +buys come in handy and so do the +Actions, but Hamlet this is not. Still, a strong $2, just not among the best $2s ever. Oh, and this is amazing in a Gardens deck. Those +2 Buys really, really help. Also, if any good attacks are on the board and a good trasher like Steward or Chapel, then Squire is a great buy just for the fact you can get an early Witch or Goons or Familiar. And, Procession/Squire can be a solid opening, gaining you two silvers, a $3 card and an attack!!!

Marauder--At first, I underestimated this card. I thought it was too slow of an attack. Afterall, Sea Hag put curses on top of your opponents deck, having a more immediate effect and this gave out Ruins which don't hurt as much as Curses. But, it ends up that gaining a Spoils and giving out a Ruins on a $4 card is actually quite powerful. This isn't as strong as Sea Hag, but setting back your opponent is nice while getting a spoils in return to cash on a gold or nice $5 card.

Rogue--This card is crap! Okay, maybe, I'm wrong, but this is like a delayed Thief with $2 on it. In most cases, you hit your opponents silver and then get it out of the trash on the next reshuffle. Okay, sometimes you get lucky and hit a Duchy, but overall, I think Rogue is weak. But, to be fair, I have not played with it much. Doesn't change my opinion of it though. But, if for some reason, you can use a terminal $2, I guess it is worth going for.

Graverobber--I am still working on this card, trying to figure it out. Like I said, I haven't had enough time to play with this batch of DA cards to truly make solid judgments. Overall, I think it can be strong. It allows you turn $5's into Provinces. If you have a way to draw most of your deck, then adding Graverobber might be worth it, so you can transform a $5 into a Province. You lose the $5, but usually a Province is better. But, it depends. To be honest, this is a tricky card. Cool though. At the moment, I am not sure where to rank it.

Hunting Grounds--This is a nice $6. In BM games, pick up two of these before your first gold. You might not even have to pick up gold with two of these in your deck. Although, if another card drawer is on the board like Smithy or Envoy just go for that instead. Or, if you have one Smithy, use your first $6 on a single Hunting Grounds. For engines, getting that one extra card makes a difference. And, if for some reason, it goes to the trash, you can get a Duchy in its place. I would say it is a decent $6, but not an amazing $6. Maybe more testing will show otherwise though.

Poor House--On many boards, this is a bad card. But, on some boards, it is super strong. However, I have found that good trashing isn't good enough. To make this card work, you will always need a source of +Action. Also, card draw goes a long way. I feel that Hamlet would be amazing card for Poor House decks, but I haven't had a chance to play it yet since Cornucopia is not on Goko. I did play a game though with Chapel, Poor House, and Squire. It was nice having won a game with only $2 and $1 cost cards that weren't Fool's Gold. Provinces don't count. So, all in all, on the right board, a single Poor House often adds $3 or $4 and is well worth going after.

Storeroom--The fact this is terminal makes it more like Secret Chamber than Cellar. To be honest, this needs the right deck. I have bought it a few times and regretted it. I am sure though there are times when it will come in handy. I think I need to playtest this card more. But, I would say it is weaker than it looks.

On another note, I have played around with Procession and Mystic more. Mystic is decent, but a weaker $5, for sure. It feels a lot like Wishing Well and not Conspirator. Some cards do make it worth buying such as Wandering Minstrel, which is an amazing Village. In those cases, if you have a source of +Buy, Mystic can act like a Grand Market. Regarding, Procession, the board has to be right, but Fortress goes along well with Procession, as does Squire. Sometimes, being able to play an action twice and getting an action $1 more than it, is worth losing that action, but it is a tricky card. I would love to try this out on a Border Village board though. Procession is not one of my favorite cards, though, but I will play around with it more and see what works and what doesn't.
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ipofanes

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2012, 04:05:36 am »
+1

Rebuild definitely looks more innocent than it is.
From my experience a very basic 3 Rebuild + a few silvers strategy beats all the baseline strategies like BM+X or Double Jack handily because it's just so fast. You need almost no economy, just enough to get 5$ for a few Rebuilds and possibly a few extra duchies. You can also add in one or two terminals like militia to slow down your opponent, setting the bar really high for competing strategies.

My 9yo son beat me on the recommended DA/Intrigue kingdom (with Great Halls and Nobles) on merit of an early Rebuild, which I had underestimated.
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ipofanes

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 04:09:11 am »
+1

Quote
Junk Dealer - While this is definitely good, I don't think it's better than Upgrade--they're apples and oranges anyway. 

Junk Dealer tends to bite you earlier than Upgrade as I'd rather Upgrade that Silver to a Bridge than trashing it for a one-time $1. Upgrade becomes atrocious not before you have a hand full of Gold and Provinces.

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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 04:44:27 am »
+1

Quote
Junk Dealer - While this is definitely good, I don't think it's better than Upgrade--they're apples and oranges anyway. 

Junk Dealer tends to bite you earlier than Upgrade as I'd rather Upgrade that Silver to a Bridge than trashing it for a one-time $1. Upgrade becomes atrocious not before you have a hand full of Gold and Provinces.

That's the point. Junk Dealer is quicker at clearing the junk out of your deck than Upgrade. On some boards, Upgrade is better, on other boards, Junk Dealer is better.
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ipofanes

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 05:23:32 am »
+1

>  Mystic is decent, but a weaker $5, for sure. It feels a lot like Wishing Well and not Conspirator.

As others have pointed out already, there are tons of cards that allow you to make educated guesses with a Mystic, but far less (one of them being the laughing stock of this board) that would allow the same for Wishing Well.
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brokoli

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 01:23:33 pm »
0

I think storeroom is excellent. It's great in engines with no trashing, it helps the deck cycling and have a lot of combos (menagerie, philosopher's stone...)

I don't played with Rogue much, but it seems more powerful than what Beyond Awesome says. I don't understand the comparison with thief since thief only steal treasures...
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Insomniac

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Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 01:33:52 pm »
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To put it out there, Rebuild is an impressive albeit soft counter to ambassador.
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