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Author Topic: 7 Card Hand Conundrum  (Read 6560 times)

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jamespotter

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7 Card Hand Conundrum
« on: November 17, 2012, 06:28:40 pm »
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You have just played a village, then a smithy, and now have one action, 7 cards in hand, and no cards in your deck. None of the cards in your hand costs more than $6.

You may have any set of 10 kingdom cards you like. What is the most money (virtual+treasure) you can make this turn?

My best is $41.
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Powerman

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 07:26:24 pm »
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Does price reduction count as a $?
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jupiter

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 08:43:11 pm »
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How many Pirate Ship Tokens can you have on your mat? I would assume you have to put them on this turn.
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DG

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 09:26:52 pm »
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I think I've found your 41, for a 4 player game?
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Schneau

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 09:27:14 pm »
+1

$138

Have 6 Foragers and a Fortress. Each Forager is worth $23, trashing Fortress and getting it back.

Trash contains: Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Harem, Philosopher's Stone, Loan, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Royal Seal, Venture, Hoard, Bank, Diadem, Horn of Plenty, Fool's Gold, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Spoils, Counterfeit, Stash

Kingdom contains at least: Village, Smithy, Black Market, Forager, Fortress
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TWoos

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 09:31:58 pm »
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You have just played a village, then a smithy, and now have one action, 7 cards in hand, and no cards in your deck. None of the cards in your hand costs more than $6.

You may have any set of 10 kingdom cards you like. What is the most money (virtual+treasure) you can make this turn?

My best is $41.
Instead of Village/Smithy, you could play two Labs for the same result.  Gives you one more option for the Kingdom.
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Schneau

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 09:43:25 pm »
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How many Pirate Ship Tokens can you have on your mat? I would assume you have to put them on this turn.

You should also probably specify nothing on a Native Village mat.
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DG

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 10:00:17 pm »
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Quote
Instead of Village/Smithy, you could play two Labs for the same result.

Not necessarily!
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Schneau

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 10:06:22 pm »
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Here's another crazy one that gets $111. It could probably be improved, this is just a first try:


Play Crossroads. Play Procession -> Procession -> Procession (on 2 Thieves. Assume 3 other players, stealing a total of 3 Platinums and 9 Banks). The Thieves are both trashed, and you gain 2 Governors. The last Procession becomes a Council Room. You have 1 Procession left to double something, so play Hunting Grounds twice, drawing 8 cards (2 Governors, a Council Room, 3 Platinums, and 2 Banks). Trash the Hunting Grounds and gain a King's Court. Trash the second Procession and gain a Governor. Play Council Room, drawing 4 Banks. Play Governor, drawing 3 Banks. Play Governor, drawing KC and Governor. Play KC->Governor, gaining 2 Golds and then drawing them. This leaves you with 2 Golds, 3 Platinums, and 9 Banks.

Golds are worth $6
Platinums are worth $15
Banks are worth 6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14 = $90

Total: $111
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heron

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 10:26:01 pm »
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$87, possibly with errors, but if not, this could easily be expanded upon and improved.

Village-->Smithy

Hand: Ironworks, Procession, Procession, Procession, Bridge, Ironworks, Council Room

Ironworks, gaining Procession.
Procession1, playing procession2, playing procession3, playing bridge, trashing bridge, gaining graverobber,
.....................................................................................playing Ironworks, gaining 2 processions, trashing Ironworks, gaining Graverobber.
....................................................................trashing procession3, gaining Council Room.
....................................................................Playing Council room, drawing Procession, Procession, Procession, Graverobber, Graverobber, Councilroom
....................................................................Trashing Council room, gaining a Border village, gaining a council room.
...................................................Trashing procession2, gaining a graverobber.

Current hand: Procession, Procession, Procession, Graverobber, Graverobber, Councilroom
Procession1, playing procession2, playing procession3, playing graverobber, gaining 2 King's courts, trashing graverobber, gaining border village, gaining deathcart.
.....................................................................................playing graverobber, gaining 2 KC's, trashing graverobber, gaining border village and death cart.
....................................................................trashing procession3, gaining graverobber.
....................................................................playing council room, drawing 4 KCs, 3 border villages, and graverobber, trashing CR, gaining BV and death cart.
...................................................trashing procession2, gaining graverobber.

Current hand: KC, KC, KC, KC, BV, BV, BV,  graverobber.
BV, BV, BV, drawing Council room, Death cart, death cart.
KC, playing KC, playing KC, playing KC, playing graverobber, gaining 3 death carts.
...................................................playing Council room, drawing BV, 4 Death carts, graverobber.
...................................................play 5 KC'd death carts for $75.
Graverobber gaining death cart.
Border village, draw death cart.
Play 2 death carts. ($10)

85 from death carts plus 2 from bridge=$87




I'm positive that this could be expanded upon to reach at least $120.
Edit: probably more like $107.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 10:27:05 pm by heron »
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jomini

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 10:55:37 pm »
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Infinite

Pirate Ship/Grave Robber can allow infinite escalation in virtual cash.


Another possible puzzle breaking solution:
University x2, Procession x3, Bridge , Libary
Prssn -> Prssn (trash for a Lib)  -> Prssn (trash for Band of Misfits) -> Uni (gain Iw x2) -> Brg -> Uni (gain Kc x2) -> Lib (draw Kc/Kc/Iw/Iw/Lib/BoM)

From here, I believe I can gain & play a massive number of cards for something truly insane. Like say 30-60 plays of maxed out Forager.


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heron

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 11:14:30 pm »
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Unfortunately, I don't think starting with university is legal. Also, how does graverobber get you infinite cash?
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DG

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 11:22:04 pm »
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The puzzle does specify only one action card in hand, no cards in the draw deck.
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heron

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 11:48:09 pm »
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Oops...
So, I guess every solution posted so far except for jomini's first is invalid?

Also, I now understand jomini's first solution.

Edit: Actually no, it specifies one action, not one action card.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 11:49:38 pm by heron »
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TWoos

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2012, 06:40:42 am »
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The puzzle does specify only one action card in hand, no cards in the draw deck.

No.  It specifies one action.
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TWoos

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 06:41:18 am »
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Quote
Instead of Village/Smithy, you could play two Labs for the same result.

Not necessarily!

Prove it.
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Rabid

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2012, 06:47:10 am »
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Horn of Plenty.
Or anything else that counts different cards played this turn.
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jamespotter

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2012, 08:18:40 am »
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Okay, here's some clarifications:
One action, you can have up to 7 action cards in hand. The trash, your native village mat, and your pirate ship mat are empty. University and all other potion cost cards are legal. You are playing solitaire. (That said, I am very impressed with a couple of these solutions particularly heron's which is legal as far as I can see.)
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Schneau

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2012, 08:59:28 am »
+1

Okay, here's some clarifications:
One action, you can have up to 7 action cards in hand. The trash, your native village mat, and your pirate ship mat are empty. University and all other potion cost cards are legal. You are playing solitaire. (That said, I am very impressed with a couple of these solutions particularly heron's which is legal as far as I can see.)

You should probably say that you have no cards in play besides Village and Smithy. Otherwise, you could have something like 10 King's Courted Merchant Ships from last turn, getting you $60 right off the bat.

You have to be careful with these puzzles! Edge cases, edge cases everywhere!
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heron

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2012, 10:11:52 am »
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I just realized My solution ignores the ruins that I would have, but even with the ruins it still works; you just need a little more shuffle luck.
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Markov Chain

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 12:26:57 am »
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I am not sure that this is quite optimal, but I get $4800. 

Village, Smithy, King's Court, Hermit (thus Madman), Vault, Coppersmith, Bank, Contraband, Fool's Gold, Counterfeit, Philosopher's Stone (thus Potion).  At the start of your turn, you have all ten Coppersmiths and Banks in your deck, you have one Hermit and eight have been been trashed, you have eight Madmen (you can't get nine and still have a Hermit), and you have all but one of every other card.

You have a Madman in hand to draw up to 12 cards, including two King's Courts, two Madman, and a Hermit.  KC/KC/KC/Madman/Hermit/Madman draws you from 8 cards up to 16, 32, and then 64.  Use the Hermit to gain the last Copper, Fool's Gold, and Village.   The second KC'ed Madman gets you up to 492 cards, which is more than there are in play.  You have 13 actions and your hand is now:

9 Villages, 8 Smithies, 7 KCs, 6 Madmen, 9 Vaults, 10 Coppersmiths, 10 Banks, 9 Contrabands, 10 Fools' Golds, 9 Counterfeits, 9 Philosopher's Stones, 9 Potions, 60 Coppers, 39 Silvers, 29 Golds, 9 Platinums, 10 Estates, 7 Duchies, 7 Provinces, 7 Colonies: total 263 cards

The 7 KC's will allow you to triple 13 actions.  You need to triple all 10 Coppersmiths, and you can't play any un-tripled actions in the middle, so you want to Vault/Madman/Vault before tripling, then use a tripled Madman/Vault/Madman/10x Coppersmith, then Vault at the end to discard all the unused actions.  The tripled Madman multiplies your cards by 8, and you will need 252 cards at that time, so you want to have 32 cards left.  Thus you play the first Vault discarding 131 cards down to 131 ($131), Madman drawing back up to 261 cards, Vault discarding 221 cards down to 40 ($221), 7xKC, tripled Madman drawing back up to 252, tripled Vault discarding 218 cards down to 33 ($218), tripled Madman drawing back up to 250, tripled 10xCoppersmith, Vault discarding 9xVillage, 8xSmithy, 3xMadman, 5xVault, 10xEstate, 7xDuchy, 7xProvince, 7xColony ($56).  Copper is now worth $31, and Philosopher's Stone is worth $11.  Counterfeit the Coppers so that you have 69 Coppers (but the counterfeited Coppers are no longer in play and do not count for Bank)

69 Copper are worth $31 each for a total of $2039.  The Silvers are worth $80, the Golds are worth $87, the Platinums are worth $45, the Contrabands are worth $27, the Fool's Golds are worth $37, the Potions are worth $0, the Philospher's Stones are worth $55, the Counterfeits are worth $9, and you have 174 Treasures in play (9 Coppers have been trashed), so the Banks are worth $175-184, and $626 from the Vaults. 
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 12:51:25 am »
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Markov Chain:

Madman only draw cards if you successfully return it to the supply.

EDIT: Also, you have 11 Kingdom Cards?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:53:44 am by Drab Emordnilap »
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DStu

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 05:05:45 am »
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I am not sure that this is quite optimal, but I get $4800. 
I thought the deck was empty?
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Schneau

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 08:16:13 am »
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I am not sure that this is quite optimal, but I get $4800. 
I thought the deck was empty?

Yup, empty deck besides the 2 cards you played and 7 in your hand. So, no go on the $4800.
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jomini

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Re: 7 Card Hand Conundrum
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 05:52:52 pm »
+1

I don't have time to do this but I suggest the following start:

Have Smithy and Village come out of the Black Market, as Young Witch is in the Bm you can have 11 kingdom cards.


Opening with something like Highway (from Bm deck) -> Procession -> Prssn (gain a 5 like Band of Misfits) -> Prssn (gain a 5) -> Bridge (from the Bm deck, gain a 5) -> Iw (gain Kc, Kc, 5) -> Catacombs (gain a 6 coin card like Border village, gain an Iw, gain a 5).

This allows you to draw 6 cards (e.g. BomCtcmbCtcmbKcKcIw), this in turn allows you to play something like Kc -> Kc -> Bom (play as Prssn) -> Iw and eventually empty out all the piles.

As far as final payout goes, I think the best solution will be to: gain all the Hagglers, haggle 10 cards for each Bm play (e.g. haggle for 10 Coppersmiths off buying a Bank), double/triple play 10 Coppersmiths (use any leftover Bom as Csmiths if you can), haggle 10 coppers with "random" buys out of the Bm (I'd include a Bank at some point), buy a Countinghouse from the Bm. Play the Chou to draw all the coppers into hand (each potentially worth 20-60 coin). This should let you get around $1000 coin.

Other payout options:

Gain & play all the Foragers multiple times with Kc/Tr/Prssn.

Gain the whacked out amounts of copper with Hagglers/Black market and then use Chou and Vault/Secret Chamber/Storeroom to discard it multiple times.

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