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Author Topic: Combo: Jack+Warehouse  (Read 3607 times)

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ednever

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Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« on: November 03, 2012, 08:12:30 pm »
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This is just a short piece.

There are two very good articles about Jack.
Here is the basic strategy article: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/12/05/hinterlands-jack-of-all-trades/
Here is the "Truth" about Jack: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2634.0
And this comment on the main article talks about some of the key Jack combos: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/12/05/hinterlands-jack-of-all-trades/#comment-8360

But I've haven't seen this one mentioned anywhere, but it was obvious when I saw it: Warehouse.

In fact, Warehouse is such a good compliment to Jack, it replaces the need for a full Jack.

Using G's simulator I ran the optimized Jack bot against a bot that replaced a single silver buy with a Warehouse.

The Warehouse-Jack bot wins about 55-39.
There is a lot of leeway. The odds do not change significantly if you do any of the following:
- Buy one warehouse or two
- Buy one Jack or two

Why this works makes a lot of intuitive sense. Jack lets you draw up to 5 cards - so any cards discarded with Warehouse 'don't count' if you can get to a Jack. And Warehouse lets you sift through your deck faster to get the your Jack(s). You end up playing Jack more often - getting more silvers. And warehouse lets you skip by the coppers - so you can pretty easily draw hands of the $8 you need for a province.

Note that playing this takes a little bit of finesse.
You want to control your warehouse plays so that you get to play your Jacks as much as possible, and watching the re-shuffles. You also have the ability to discard the top card or not with Jack - which you can also use to manage your re-shuffles and your $s per hand. I'm betting the bot doesn't do that very well.
At the start of the game you want to not only ensure you get a Jack in your hand, but you also want an Estate (a single Estate) so the Jack can trash it. Later on you want to discard the greens and copper so you are just drawing all those silver.

You likely don't want more than 2 Jacks or 2 Warehouses due to the danger of drawing them after playing Jack (Before doesn't matter as you just keep sifting)

Here is the game I played today that inspired this short write-up:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/03/game-20121103-165342-deace913.html

Ed
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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 09:06:07 pm »
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.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 10:27:18 am by () | (_) ^/ »
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Powerman

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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 09:24:34 pm »
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Wow, I played a game that was basically that as well today.

I won by getting 6 provinces, but I did find one "issue" with it.  Do you want to keep an estate in hand early after warehousing if you have a jack in hand?  With the warehouse, it doesn't seem to matter as much if you have an estate, but the potential of having 2 estates could cost you an early gold.  Thoughts?
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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 10:36:46 pm »
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Wow, I played a game that was basically that as well today.

I won by getting 6 provinces, but I did find one "issue" with it.  Do you want to keep an estate in hand early after warehousing if you have a jack in hand?  With the warehouse, it doesn't seem to matter as much if you have an estate, but the potential of having 2 estates could cost you an early gold.  Thoughts?

I would say that the trashing of estates is not really an essential function of the combo, as the warehouse's sifting AND quicker Jack cycling (and thus more silvers) handle the extra green just fine.
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Graystripe77

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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 12:57:30 pm »
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I LOVE this combo. I find that 4 Warehouses and 1-2 Jacks is the best. Sometimes, I never even buy treasure.
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ednever

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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 03:29:11 pm »
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I LOVE this combo. I find that 4 Warehouses and 1-2 Jacks is the best. Sometimes, I never even buy treasure.

The simulator disagrees with you.

With nothing else involved 4 warehouses loses to double jack. (Where you buy warehouses instead of silvers after the first 2)

Ed
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Re: Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2012, 05:13:08 pm »
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I LOVE this combo. I find that 4 Warehouses and 1-2 Jacks is the best. Sometimes, I never even buy treasure.

The simulator disagrees with you.

With nothing else involved 4 warehouses loses to double jack. (Where you buy warehouses instead of silvers after the first 2)

Ed
Can you post the simrules, or PM it to me? I might be able to modify it to show you what I mean.
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