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[brokoli]

There is a lot of simple cards concept we haven't seen in the game, and that seems to work at first sight (before Dark Ages, Junk Dealer was an example).

Some ideas :

Trasher village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 action
Trash a card from your hand

Cantrip remodel (or grand upgrade)
$7 - Action
+1 card
+1 action
Trash a card from your hand. gain a card costing exactly $2 more than it.

Victory village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 actions
---
Worth 1 VP

Duke of estates
(something which give a number of points per estate in your deck at the end of the game).

Your opinion ?

[GendoIkari]

There is a lot of simple cards concept we haven't seen in the game, and that seems to work at first sight (before Dark Ages, Junk Dealer was an example).

Some ideas :

Trasher village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 action
Trash a card from your hand

Cantrip remodel (or grand upgrade)
$7 - Action
+1 card
+1 action
Trash a card from your hand. gain a card costing exactly $2 more than it.

Victory village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 actions
---
Worth 1 VP

Duke of estates
(something which give a number of points per estate in your deck at the end of the game).

Your opinion ?

Grand Upgrade may very well be worse than Upgrade, even if it cost $5.... it can't trash Coppers and Curses for free.

[eHalcyon]

The trasher village is likely undercosted simply as a cantrip trasher with a bonus (extra action).  Compare with Junk Dealer (cantrip trasher with +$1) and Upgrade (cantrip trasher with card gain).

[brokoli]

Ok, you're right about costs, but I think this is secondary. What about the card mechanics themselves ?

[eHalcyon]

I wonder at how much better Grand Upgrade is compared to Upgrade.  How much better is "exactly $2 more" compared to "exactly $1 more"?  It's probably not as big a difference as "up to $2 more" vs. "up to $1 more".

I don't know about Duke of Estates (DoE).  With Duchy/Duke, you do need some support to consistently hit $5 or else you are going to choke on green pretty quickly.  But Estates are so cheap that you don't really need any support to get a lot of them.  I don't know if DoE could be as balanced as Duke.  Are there any thoughts on numbers for it?

[LastFootnote]

Trasher village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 action
Trash a card from your hand

The problem with this one is that when you want villages, you almost always want a lot of them (except Walled Village). But you can't afford to have a lot of Trasher Villages because pretty soon you'll thin all the crap out of your deck and be unable to play them. So chances are that if you buy Trasher Village, you're doing it for the the non-terminal trashing, not for the +2 Actions. That means it's basically "+1 Card/+1 Action/Trash a card from your hand". That might be an OK card, but there are cards that do non-terminal trashing better or in more interesting ways (Lookout, Junk Dealer, Forager, Upgrade, etc.). So I don't see Trasher Village adding much to the game.

Cantrip remodel (or grand upgrade)
$7 - Action
+1 card
+1 action
Trash a card from your hand. gain a card costing exactly $2 more than it.

I guess this might be OK, but I think it'll play very differently from Upgrade. Hard to say how it would work out without playtesting it.

Victory village
$4 - Action
+1 card
+2 actions
---
Worth 1 VP

Doesn't add anything to the game that Great Hall doesn't already add. In general I'm against tacking VP onto a card without the VP being integral to the card concept in some way. For Great Hall, the added VP is itself the concept. It's a Victory card that doesn't "take up space" in your deck, and it has cute combos with some other Intrigue cards (Ironwoks, Tribute, Scout, Conspirator, etc.). Likewise, Harem's concept is VP/Treasure. It fills that slot. As far as I'm concerned, we don't ever need another Treasure-Victory card. Nobles gets a bit of a pass, being from Intrigue.

Anyhow, Victory Village is pretty much the same card concept as Great Hall, so I don't see the need for it.

Duke of estates
(something which give a number of points per estate in your deck at the end of the game).

I worry that there's no way to make this good enough to be worth going for, yet not so good that every game with it becomes a rush for it. Also, Duke pretty much covers this concept.

[ednever]

Silk road also kind of covers duke of estates.

Most sr strategies involve loading up on estates, do they would play relatively similarly.

Ed

[Guy Srinivasan]

Duke of Estates has some constraints. It can't be good enough to always provoke a rush. It can't be so bad that it's never good. It has to deal with the fact that buying lots of Estates at once is easier than buying lots of any other given Victory card. It has to play differently than Silk Road. So... what might work?


Estuke
$4 - Action-Victory
Worth 1 VP
Set this on your Estuke mat. You may put exactly 2 Estates from your hand onto your Estuke mat. At the end of the game, this is worth an extra 1 VP for every 2 Estates on your Estuke mat.

It's an alt-VP that kinda encourages an engine, and wants you to buy Estates at some point anyway... probably broken if you can get to an "overdraw your deck with +$8 and 3 Buys" state every turn.


Duke of Estates
$4 - Victory
Worth 1 VP
Worth +1 VP for each Estate above 3 in your deck at the end of the game.
--
When you would gain this, return an Estate from your hand to the supply. If you do not, trash this instead.

Tempering the ease of Estate-gaining by artificially requiring extra Estate-gaining.

[dreamscaper]

how about a card like Taxes
$4 - Action
+1 Action
For every estate in your discard +1 $

[Archetype]

Welcome to the forum! Don't play Mafia! 

how about a card like Taxes
$4 - Action
+1 Action
For every estate in your discard +1 $

That would be interesting. Problem is, it might be too swingy.

Gold for one player, Ruined Village for the other? People would complain more about shuffle luck with this, then with Baron!

[One Armed Man]

Taxes is pretty much the same as Counting House for estates +1 Action, for less. Obviously you start with less estates.

[eHalcyon]

Taxes is pretty much the same as Counting House for estates +1 Action, for less. Obviously you start with less estates.

Taxes will also stack.  You can TR/KC it or play it in multiples and get benefit each time.  That doesn't work with CH (unless you have Vault or something).

[One Armed Man]

how about a card like Taxes
$4 - Action
+1 Action
For every estate in your discard +1 $

How about:

Tax Collector:
$4 - Action
+1 Action
You may discard any number of cards from your hand.
Search your discards for any number of Shelter or Estate cards and reveal them. For each Shelter or Estate revealed: +$1.

[NoMoreFun]

There's no simple terminals that give both money and cards at the same time. The closest to one is mercenary.

Eg.
Builder:
Cost: 5
Action
+2 cards
+$2

Other things

Theoretical, often dicussed but nonexistent vanilla Peddler:
Cost: 4
+1 card
+1 action
+$1

Curator
Cost: 5
Action
Gain a copper, a silver and a gold

Weakest junker imaginable:
Cost: 4
+2 cards, +$1
Each other player may reveal a ruins from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains a Ruins, putting it in his in hand.

Discard lab:
Cost: 4
+2 cards
+1 action
Discard a card

Librarified cards

Production Village (from the design contest)
Cost: 4
+2 actions
Draw until you have 5 cards in hand

Labrary:
Cost: 4
+1 action
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand

Reading Grounds:
Cost: 6
Draw until you have 8 cards in hand

Horse Readers:
Cost: 4
+$3
Discard down to 2 cards in hand

Not quite treasures

"Copper"
+1 action
+$1

"Silver"
+1 action
+$2

"Gold"
+1 action
+$3

[eHalcyon]

I believe some of those were tested by Donald and omitted for various reasons.  I remember reading about the discard lab, at least.  It was too strong for $4 but of course cannot be $5 because of the regular Lab.

[NoMoreFun]

When gain, when trash and reaction effects are a way to mitigate that awkward cost, and IIRC that's exactly what happened with Inn.

It would have been cool if Inn was +2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action for each card you discard.

[LastFootnote]

When gain, when trash and reaction effects are a way to mitigate that awkward cost, and IIRC that's exactly what happened with Inn.

It would have been cool if Inn was +2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action for each card you discard.

According to Rinkworks and WanderingWinder, that card works pretty well at $4.

[NoMoreFun]

When gain, when trash and reaction effects are a way to mitigate that awkward cost, and IIRC that's exactly what happened with Inn.

It would have been cool if Inn was +2 cards, discard any number of cards, +1 action for each card you discard.

According to Rinkworks and WanderingWinder, that card works pretty well at $4.

That's strictly better than discard-lab though.