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[sylas]

please can somebody playtest this card.

it was originally my Wild Geese card but i decided to use it for my Dominion: Lovecraft set that i'm working on.

my group has dismissed it utterly as nonsense so refuse to even try it out. i only want to find out if it works, if its balanced, and does it take the fun out of the game. i appreciate any feedback even if it's all bad.


NYARLATHOTEP, $5, Action
When you play this card, pass it to the left. Keep passing the card to the left until a player decides to gain it.
Whoever gains it, also gains 2 Curses, and you gain a Treasure worth up to the number of players it has been passed to.
If the card is passed back to you, gain a Gold and discard the card.

[eHalcyon]

This was posted elsewhere in these forums, wasn't it?

Unless someone has Watchtower or Trader, they will pretty much never take two Curses to stop you from gaining the Gold.

[Archetype]

I don't even know what a 'nyarlathotep' is!

[sylas]

i guess not everyone is familiar with H.P.Lovecraft

i can't really explain the entire tale of horror without going into detail, but it relates to the Cthulhu Mythos, which you may have heard of. Nyarlathotep is the messenger of the Gods (alien in origin) who himself has the potential of creating enough discord to doom mankind.


as for never taking Curses, it is the easiest way of ensuring that player of not getting too rich. once you take the Curses, the card will be yours so you can get your own back then, or savour the riches coming in. compared to Witch, which Curses everyone, this is weaker. taking Curses to stop someone from winning completely is a small price.

[Algebraist]

So if no-one ever takes the curses, this just gains you a gold. Is that worth $5?

[Schneau]

So if no-one ever takes the curses, this just gains you a gold. Is that worth $5?

Gaining a Gold to your discard is probably a weakish $5 card. Governor is the closest comparison - it gives an +Action and gives your opponents Silvers, but also gives other strong options.

[eHalcyon]

With 3 or more players it is like prisoner's dilemma. Why should I take the curses if my opponents don't have to?

In 2 player, choosing to gain it would be like taking a weak delayed cache with two upfront curses instead of copper.

If the goal is to stop them from getting richer than you, might as well buy one of these yourself. But I think taking two curses would hurt you way more than letting them have the gold.

Also, how would this work with Throne Room or King's Court?

[sylas]

it won't work with Throne Room or King's Court. to quote a fellow forum member: 'you can't pass a card that's been discarded (due to the lose-track rule)'.

however, as a compromise, because i really want to make this card work and not make it unintentionally annoying, how does it stand with the following tweaks? looks weak but hopefully more flexible now.

NYARLATHOTEP, $4, Action
+1 Card
When you play this card, pass it to the left. Keep passing the card to the left until a player decides to gain it.
Whoever gains it, also gains and puts a Curse into his hand. If the card is passed back to you, discard the card.
You gain a card worth up to the number of players it has been passed to.

[Guy Srinivasan]

The reason the card doesn't work is because if I am trying to win, I do not care how well you are doing, I care how well you are doing in comparison to me. If my choice is to make you and me lose compared to other players in the game, I will reject that choice. If the choice comes around to me and I find that making it is actually helping me win, then the card's design has failed. So in no cases where the card's design has succeeded do I ever make the choice to gain the card.

How do we counter this? One way is to only play with people who aren't trying to win, which actually describes many groups who like Lovecraft-themed games... they're after the experience, not the puzzle. I don't like that solution because I am not one of those people, but it may work for you. Another way is to add a non-deterministic part... try this?

Nyarlathotep
$5 - Action
After discussion, each other player puts a card from his hand face down in front of him without showing anyone what the card is, then everyone turns it face up simultaneously and returns it to his hand. Whoever revealed the highest valued card, ties broken in turn order, gains this card and gains two Curses in hand and you gain a Treasure costing up to thrice the number of players revealing lower valued cards, unless everyone tied, in which case you gain a Gold and put Nyarlathotep in your hand.

[sylas]

with the modified version, i allowed the option to trash the Curse as well if you happened to have a card that can do so in your hand. quite a lot of cards can do this (or Masquerade it) and usually i come across at least one per game. the benefit would be being the one who plays it when it comes into your hand. if others don't have trashing cards at hand, great, you gain a better card should no one take it from you. so you are not automatically at a loss.

[Guy Srinivasan]

Right, I was assuming that if you're not sad about "winning" Nyarlathotep, the card design failed.

[eHalcyon]

it won't work with Throne Room or King's Court. to quote a fellow forum member: 'you can't pass a card that's been discarded (due to the lose-track rule)'.

however, as a compromise, because i really want to make this card work and not make it unintentionally annoying, how does it stand with the following tweaks? looks weak but hopefully more flexible now.

NYARLATHOTEP, $4, Action
+1 Card
When you play this card, pass it to the left. Keep passing the card to the left until a player decides to gain it.
Whoever gains it, also gains and puts a Curse into his hand. If the card is passed back to you, discard the card.
You gain a card worth up to the number of players it has been passed to.

The issue with this one is that it is extremely, extremely weak; nobody will care enough to stop you from gaining your card except in 5-6 player (which is terrible in its own right).  Even with 4p you will only gain a $4 card.  This is like a much more limited Ironworks.  With 2p, this is actually a liability because you'll often have to gain Coppers and Estates.

[sylas]

the more i mess with it, the worse it becomes. it's like the messenger himself is messing with me. 

[Sakako]

What if your opponents never want it to get to you, even at a higher price? Something like this:

Nyarlathotep
Action - Reaction
$7

Pass this card to the left. If you have played a Nyarlathotep this turn, when this card is passed to you, gain a card.
------------------
When this card is passed to you during another player's turn: Pass it to the left, or gain it, and gain two Curses, putting them on top of your deck.

[sylas]

i'm a little unclear about how it works. is it only beneficial if you have played a '+2 Actions' card before it so you can send it round a second time? is the gain a card, ANY card, like including a Province? how is it beneficial to you if you don't have '+2 Actions' cards?

i kinda like the Reaction part though.

[sylas]

okay i think this is more balanced now. kind of a slightly better, or slightly worse Witch:

NYARLATHOTEP, $5, Action
+2 Cards
When you play this card, pass it to the left. Keep passing the card to the left until a player decides to gain it.
Whoever gains it, also gains a Curse putting it on top of his deck. If the card is passed back to you, discard the card and each other player gains a Curse.
+$1 per player it has been passed to.

[Ozle]

Why wouldnt the person to your right keep it in a two player game

[Ozle]

They keep it, play it on thier turn, they are +1 card up

[sylas]

he can play when in comes into his hand but not immediately when gaining it. only the Curse is put on top of his deck. he'd be drawing the Curse as his next card which gives zero benefit mostly. it's not much of a hindrance but i was trying to get the balance right. is it better left as 'gains a Curse' full-stop?
it's not as interesting in a 2-player game but then neither are some of the existing cards. this probably works best in a 3-5 player game for the 'why should I take it?' debate.

[Sakako]

i'm a little unclear about how it works. is it only beneficial if you have played a '+2 Actions' card before it so you can send it round a second time? is the gain a card, ANY card, like including a Province? how is it beneficial to you if you don't have '+2 Actions' cards?

i kinda like the Reaction part though.

Well, you have to play it to pass it - so it actually leaves your hand right? +2 actions doesn't really make any difference unless you have two in your hand. And yes, it is ANY card. Which is why it makes your opponents think really carefully about whether they want you to have +6 VP (or +10 VP/Plat in a colony game), or just take the 2 curse hit on top of the deck. That's why I priced mine at 7, cause it's either a really powerful card for you, or a really powerful curser, like a double Hag.

As for cost, Maybe it should even be something like $5*, and have the condition, "This card costs $1 more for each card worth $6 or more in the supply."