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[werothegreat]

Prosperity > Seaside > Intrigue > Cornucopia > Hinterlands > Base Cards > Eye Bleach > Ascension > Resident Evil: TDBG > Alchemy

You take that back.  Alchemy is awesome.

[Captain_Frisk]

Prosperity > Seaside > Intrigue > Cornucopia > Hinterlands > Base Cards > Eye Bleach > Ascension > Resident Evil: TDBG > Alchemy

You take that back.  Alchemy is awesome.

Have you ever played a king's court / scrying pool game against 2 other players in real life?

[greatexpectations]

Have you ever played a king's court / scrying pool game against 2 other players in real life?

no i have not. it's actually against the 8th amendment for being cruel and unusual punishment.

[Kuildeous]

Have you ever played a king's court / scrying pool game against 2 other players in real life?

Sounds like the problem is with Prosperity.

</troll>

[Octo]

Heavy action-engine games from any set can get dull pretty quick in face-to-face play, especially when the payoff of a large chain is utterly trivial  - we're a bit too used to Iso on here where everything is lightning quick. In certain circumstances in real life play I have to deliberately avoid engines for diplomatic reasons. I don't have alchemy (for different reasons) but I can see how that it might exacerbate it more than most. It's strange, because Dominion is still such a quick game, and so many other games you have to wait so long for your turn and it's seems less of a problem.

[Captain_Frisk]

Heavy action-engine games from any set can get dull pretty quick in face-to-face play, especially when the payoff of a large chain is utterly trivial  - we're a bit too used to Iso on here where everything is lightning quick. In certain circumstances in real life play I have to deliberately avoid engines for diplomatic reasons. I don't have alchemy (for different reasons) but I can see how that it might exacerbate it more than most. It's strange, because Dominion is still such a quick game, and so many other games you have to wait so long for your turn and it's seems less of a problem.

Agreed.  To add a little more reasoned analysis in addition to my original snark.

I would strongly recommend against alchemy as a purchased set until you have at least 3 other full sets (base / intrigue / seaside / prosperity / hinterlands / dark ages (i guess))

High alchemy games (those with 3 or more potion cards) can turn what is normally a quick 10 minute game into a game where you might not take a turn for 10 minutes.

The more other expansions you have, the less chance you have of having alchemy dominated games if you do random game setup.

[brokoli]

I hate alchemist and familiar in Alchemy. They are painful and unintersting. Even if it's very satisfying to win against a familiar.
I don't like transmute too. It's so insignificant.

But on the other hand : Apprentice, Vineyard, Herbalist, Apothecary, Scrying pool, Golem and even the controversial possession are awesome.

[Karhumies]

Since you're into Dominion, I think it'll be inevitable that you'll own all of the sets. Yes, even the Base set, since those humdrum Adventurers, Witches, and Remodels will be more interesting with more expansions.

So, I would advise against the Base cards unless you *really* want the improved artwork. You talk about having enough cards for 5 and 6 players by purchasing Base cards with Intrigue, but you'll eventually get there anyway when you do buy the Base set.

And this would free up your money to possibly tack on Cornucopia.

Judging by my stack of Munchkin expansions, you sir do have a point. The question thus becomes (and has always been): in which order to purchase them, so as not to become bored or fed up midway through?

I would strongly recommend against alchemy as a purchased set until you have at least 3 other full sets (base / intrigue / seaside / prosperity / hinterlands / dark ages (i guess))

High alchemy games (those with 3 or more potion cards) can turn what is normally a quick 10 minute game into a game where you might not take a turn for 10 minutes.

The more other expansions you have, the less chance you have of having alchemy dominated games if you do random game setup.

My playgroup has already found this out the hard way. Which is basically the reason behind me creating this thread in this first place: to avoid "duds" in the early set purchases.

[Karhumies]

Also, do you tend to
a) mix up the "blue cards" from all expansions together and use "pure random" to choose the kingdom stacks?
b) choose percentage of card set consistency, e.g. 40% base, 30% set B, 30% set C before randomizing
c) something else entirely

[brokoli]

Also, do you tend to
a) mix up the "blue cards" from all expansions together and use "pure random" to choose the kingdom stacks?
b) choose percentage of card set consistency, e.g. 40% base, 30% set B, 30% set C before randomizing
c) something else entirely

All. a) is the most common of all, but you also have some kingdom randomizer (with options such as the number of attacks/victory/treasure/cards from intrigue, etc). And sometimes you use already created kingdom (in the rulebook or in dominiondeck.com...)

[ftl]

Also, do you tend to
a) mix up the "blue cards" from all expansions together and use "pure random" to choose the kingdom stacks?
b) choose percentage of card set consistency, e.g. 40% base, 30% set B, 30% set C before randomizing
c) something else entirely

There's been some threads on that.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4728.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4795.0

Full random is pretty common, as is 'biased' random (pick a few sets and pick randomly from them), as is 'random-but-people-veto-cards-they-don't-like'.

[Toolshed113]

I hate alchemist and familiar in Alchemy. They are painful and unintersting. Even if it's very satisfying to win against a familiar.
I don't like transmute too. It's so insignificant.

But on the other hand : Apprentice, Vineyard, Herbalist, Apothecary, Scrying pool, Golem and even the controversial possession are awesome.

First time poster. Yay!

I'm glad I'm not the only person that really likes Alchemy (aside from Familiar of course). I've played a good amount of games both on Iso and IRL and I have to say that Alchemy is one of my favorite expansions, while Prosperity is one of my least favorite. I guess I just don't enjoy the super power cards. To me, any game with King's Court is worse/more boring IRL than any alchemy heavy game I've ever played.

[Jive Junkie]

I'd prioritize (in this order):

- Dark Ages (more interesting cards than any other set IMO, and all the trashing interaction is a blast)
- Prosperity (several key combo cards, and big game-changers with Colonies/Platinum)
- Cornucopia (rewarding diversity leads to fewer boring games, and Tournament becomes a neat little sub-game)

[Karhumies]

Also, do you tend to
a) mix up the "blue cards" from all expansions together ...

There's been some threads on that. ...

Hmm. Might try out the following steps:

1. Choose X sets (based on player familiriaty with more complicated game mechanics and play group boredom with set Y)

2. Pick 10 full random or semi-random (e.g. to exclude "too complicated and of marginal utility to really bother explaining" cards when new players are present) amongst them

3. Veto vote: 50+% players disagree (I usually play only 4 player games) -> a card is out.

At the end of a round - 4. Let the last place finisher choose 0-2 kingdom cards to stay on the board for the next game (slightly less reading through new cards compared to full random for new players, also twists some game mechanics present in the previous game)

... Prosperity is one of my least favorite. I guess I just don't enjoy the super power cards. To me, any game with King's Court is worse/more boring IRL than any alchemy heavy game I've ever played.

...which is exactly why I would like to know my playgroup member responses to "big plays" prior to making a blind purchase (as mentioned earlier in the thread). I do know that they hated Scrying Pool, but that was more likely because multiples take ages resolving.

[popsofctown]

Scrying Pool is more powerful than King's Court if you think about it.

[Captain_Frisk]

Scrying Pool is more powerful than King's Court if you think about it.

Truth!

[Karhumies]

I have heard from my playgroup members that a 4 player Intrigue + Alchemy setup containing Scrying Pool + Saboteur on the board has been easily the worst Dominion game experience they have ever had. This was way back when they were all new to the game, some players opened with Potion-Silver, someone randomly opened up with a Saboteur with a 5/2 split, and the Potion players resorted to picking up Scrying Pools. Some players thought that converting their trashed stuff into Embassies would actually be a good idea.

[Karhumies]

Picked up Base set + Prosperity + Hinterlands today. Unfortunately, I forgot to pick up sleeves (will have to pick them up at a later date) and our playgroup schedule looks very conflicting.

[Karhumies]

Now that I have some hands-on experience from both teaching the game to new players & discussing strategy with a couple of MtG friends, here is my purchase order advice to other players:

Teaching purposes
1. Dominion (vanilla)
2. Intrigue (2nd table; semi-vanilla interactions)
3. Prosperity (longer games make the players realize a lot about strategy innately by having their sucky mispurchases pursue them repeatedly)
4. Base cards (3rd table; 2nd table for Platinum & Colony)
....and you should be a happy camper.
Why no Seaside early on? Because people mess up discarding the continuous cards all the time. That's more trouble than the expansion's worth.

MtG combo players
1. Intrigue (semi-vanilla)
2. Hinterlands (tricks! tricks! tricks! c-c-c-c-combo!)
3. Any large expansion released before Hinterlands (NEW COMBOS! ; choose Dominion for 2nd table / Prosperity for Plat and Colony / Seaside for continuous)
4. Dark Ages (c-c-c-combo!)
5. Whichever expansion is going to go together well with the previous purchases from this point onwards.