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[sylas]

Hello all! i'm sylas.

i'm fairly new to the game having only played Dominion and Intrigue. i've made up some new cards but aren't sure if they're any good or unbalanced. please tell me what you think and suggest changes where required:

MOB, $2, Action
+1 Card. +2 Actions
If you do not use all your Actions this turn, you gain a Curse.

DEMAGOGUE, $4, Action
+1 Card
Trash two Cards in your hand and gain one up to the total cost of the trashed Cards.

EXECUTIONER, $4, Action
+1 Card
Trash an Action Card in your hand costing at least $4. Gain one Gold.

SLAVE MARKET, $3, Action
+2 Buy, +$3
Trash this card from your hand.

RUFFIAN, $4, Action-Attack
+1 Action, +$1
All players, including yourself, must discard down to 3 Cards. Exchange your entire hand with a player of your choice.

CITY WATCH, $3, Action-Defence
+1 Action
If you discard an Attack Card, draw two Cards. Until the start of your next turn, you are unaffected by Attack Cards.

VISIONARY, $3, Action-Defence
+4 Cards
Your turn ends immediately after drawing the four Cards. Until the start of your next turn, you are unaffected by Attack Cards.

GARDEROBE, $1, Action
Trash one card from your hand or, draw one Card then discard two.

CHAMBERLAIN, $5, Action
+$2
After your Buy phase, you may put a Treasure Card you used on top of your deck rather than the discard pile.

ARCHITECT, $2, Action
+1 Action
If there are three or more Victory buildings (Estate, Great Hall, etc.) in your hand, discard them all and draw one Card for each one discarded.

BURGOMASTER, $3, Action
+1 Buy OR +$1
You gain one Silver which you put into your hand. Each other player gains one Copper which they choose to put on their discard pile or, on top of their deck.

PICKPOCKET, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Action
Each other player must give you a Treasure Card or, discard down to three Cards.

FOUNTAIN, $2, Action
+$2
Gain a cost $3 Card for each Curse you discard from your hand.

DIPLOMAT, $2, Action-Reaction
+1 Card, +$1
You may reveal this Card when Attacked. Offer one Card from your hand to the Attacker.
If it is taken, the Attacker puts it on to his/her discard pile and you are unaffected by the Attack.
If it is not taken, you are affected by the Attack in the normal way.
Whatever the outcome, the Diplomat stays in your hand.

[eHalcyon]

Welcome to the forums!  You should brush up on all the other existing cards -- it's fascinating stuff.  Also check out thoughts from Donald X (creator of Dominion) on the design of all the different sets.

And if you're up for it, you might also want to read through this comprehensive guide on fan card creation.



Thoughts on these cards:



Mob -- Gaining a Curse is a really steep price to pay.  Too steep to risk this card, I think.  The low price doesn't justify the drawback from a regular Village.

Demagogue -- It's OK, but is perhaps too similar to Forge.

Executioner -- What happens if you don't have an Action card in your hand?  According to Dominion rules, you continue on with the rest of the card and still gain a Gold.  Therefore, this card is too powerful.  Also note that your wording has accountability issues -- I could say I have no such cards in my hand and you have no choice but to take my word for it.  Official cards usually deal with this by either having the card player reveal their hand (to prove that it doesn't contain the card in question) or by adding an "if you do" clause to the subsequent benefit.

Slave Market -- Since it is one-shot, I think this might be OK.

Ruffian -- Official Dominion is designed not to be political.  This card would be rather political (do I switch with Alice, or with Bob?).  If you like some politics in your game, though, by all means go for it.  I would personally be against a card like this simply because it is so, so, so swingy.

City Watch -- There is no "Defence" type.  Perhaps you mean Reaction?  For your "until the start of your next turn" wording, you should review the Seaside expansion, particularly Lighthouse.  One other issue with this card is that it is almost entirely useless if there is no Attack on the board.  Note that other reactions (from your experience, Moat and Secret Chamber) still have some function even in the absence of Attacks.

Visionary -- As worded, this card does nothing but end your turn.  You can't hold onto your hand between turns; you discard and draw a new hand of 5!

Garderobe -- Wording should read, "Choose one: trash a card from your hand; or, +1 Card, discard 2 cards."  I think this is alright.  Might pick it up when I really want that slow trashing (heavy Cursing games).  The second option is really bad though.

Chamberlain -- Maybe too similar to Herbalist.  Might be interesting as a Treasure type, but I think it's too weak as a terminal action.

Architect -- Wording should say "Victory cards".  This is strictly inferior to Cellar.

Burgomaster -- This is too strong.  Gaining Silver to hand means it basically has an additional +$2.  That makes it a terminal Gold, which is considered too strong for $5.  Also note that this card should be an Attack type, since it forces opponents to gain Copper.  Yep, that's bad for them!  Donald X. has also stated that Copper-giving attacks do not work out in practice due to the way the piles scale in size with the number of players.  Existing Copper givers (e.g. Jester, Mountebank) are limited by design, so they work, but unlimited Copper-givers would need careful evaluation and testing, moreso than most of us can put in.

Pickpocket -- Accountability issues again (what if they say they don't have a Treasure card).  This is also often better than Thief because it can cripple opponent's hands.  "Give you a card" is not well defined -- does that mean you gain the Treasure card, or is it supposed to be like Masquerade and its "passing" mechanic?  These are important distinctions.

Fountain -- Probably OK.  Terminal Silver is alright at $2.  The extra benefit here is super situational (and nearly useless on boards without Cursers -- edge case is you could just buy a Curse yourself).  But overall it's probably OK.

Diplomat -- Interesting concept, but overall very weak.  Since your opponent can refuse your peace offering, this Reaction only gives opponents more options.  The funny thing, however, is that Dominion rules allow you to reveal Reactions as many times as you want.  Therefore, if your opponent refuses, you are legally allowed to reveal Diplomat again and offer the same care.  Repeatedly.  Until they give in out of frustration and despair.  Just like a real Diplomat.




Hope these comments help you as you discover more of Dominion!  It's always fun to see more people posting their ideas.  You might be interested in checking out the set design contest.  Cheers!

[ConMan]

City Watch -- There is no "Defence" type.  Perhaps you mean Reaction?  For your "until the start of your next turn" wording, you should review the Seaside expansion, particularly Lighthouse.  One other issue with this card is that it is almost entirely useless if there is no Attack on the board.  Note that other reactions (from your experience, Moat and Secret Chamber) still have some function even in the absence of Attacks.

Except that it doesn't need to be a Reaction, either - since it doesn't "React" so much as passively protect you. Which could be interesting.

Visionary -- As worded, this card does nothing but end your turn.  You can't hold onto your hand between turns; you discard and draw a new hand of 5!

Or does it? I can see three ways this card could pan out:
1. If it's meant to be "skip to your Buy phase", it's a bit like a stronger Smithy (that you can't use particularly well in an engine).
2. If it's meant to be "skip to your Clean-up phase, and draw 4 extra cards", it's Tactician-lite, although the protection from Attacks means you don't have to worry too much about your 9-card hand being targeted by Militia.
3. It could, however, mean "skip your Buy AND Clean-up phase", which means that you get the extra cards in hand, but don't clean up anything, including cards in play, so you give up the rest of your current turn to have a Tactician-ish turn next turn. This could be very interesting, although I assume you'd reset to 1 Action and 1 Buy at the start of the next turn.

[sylas]

thank you both for your suggestions. they've really helped a rookie like me 

i never realised the wording would be so important so i'll need to clear up on some of the cards as well as increase some of the weaker ones.

ConMan is correct in that the 'Defence' feature for the City Watch and Visionary is meant to be passive to protect you the whole turn rather than reacting to an Attack if it comes. that's why i priced it higher than Reaction cards.

The Visionary is supposed to just skip the Buy phase (you can still use other Action cards BEFORE you play this one), and you keep your current hand so that next turn you'll have a bigger hand to work with after drawing 5 hands. i neglected to cover this part. 

Executioner should only work if you are able to trash an Action card and will not work at all if you don't.

Ruffian is designed so that a player with a weak deck can still have a chance of catching up with a player who has a strong deck, assuming you have an idea who that is. it's a bit of a gamble most of the times as you don't know who will be keeping a strong 3-card hand and who will be keeping a weaker one. but thinking about it, the risk of handing over a good hand to the attacker might just make ALL players keep a weak hand, therefore no one will get a good round. i'll have to test out this card to find out how players react to it. i'll bump it up to $5, but if you have any suggestions on how this might work better, i'd appreciate the help.

as for the other cards, i'll need to tweak them before i include them in a game.

Thanks again!

[rinkworks]

ConMan is correct in that the 'Defence' feature for the City Watch and Visionary is meant to be passive to protect you the whole turn rather than reacting to an Attack if it comes. that's why i priced it higher than Reaction cards.

Definitely look at the Lighthouse card in Seaside.  The Duration mechanic on Lighthouse keeps the card in play between your turns.  The defense is active "while in play," so there is always a reminder to all players whether or not you are protected in this kind of passive manner.

Also note that "If you discard an Attack card" doesn't mean you CAN discard an Attack card.  You'd have to say something like, "You may discard an Attack card.  If you do...."  Or is the discard supposed to be mandatory?  In that case, "Discard an Attack card (or reveal a hand with no Attack cards).  If you discarded a card...."

The Visionary is supposed to just skip the Buy phase (you can still use other Action cards BEFORE you play this one), and you keep your current hand so that next turn you'll have a bigger hand to work with after drawing 5 hands. i neglected to cover this part. 

In that case, I recommend looking at Tactician, also from Seaside.  Like your Visionary card, it essentially offers you a double-sized turn next turn in exchange for skipping the current one.  That's a $5 card.  With that plus protection from attacks, your card is overpowered at $3.  And there remains the issue of how you signify that you are protected from Attacks for that period.  These should really be Duration cards.

Executioner should only work if you are able to trash an Action card and will not work at all if you don't.

The wording for that would be "Trash an Action card costing at least $4 from your hand.  If you do, gain a Gold."

I suspect this card is not strong enough.  Compare to Remodel, which offers a lot more flexibility in what you exchange (though, to be sure, it cannot turn a Cellar into a Gold), and I'm not sure that a +1 Card on Executioner is enough of a boost over that.  Remodel's primary strength is turning bad cards into good ones (Estate -> Silver, for instance, or Estate -> Conspirator, or whatever).  Using Executioner will usually mean turning a good card into a good card, which might not even be half as powerful.  There are exceptions:  get rid of a Witch when the Curses are gone, a Moneylender when your Coppers are all gone, a Chapel when you've trashed as much as you want to, etc.  But these are rare situations, and by the time those cards have become obsolete, you ought to be able to afford to buy Golds outright.

It's also worth recognizing that Executioner itself is a junk card in your deck once you've got all the Golds you need, and/or gotten rid of all the obsolete Action cards in your deck.  Remodel, on the other hand, could then start turning Golds into Provinces.  So there's an extremely limited window of utility for Executioner, and it is therefore almost certainly not worth using up a Buy on it, hoping you'll draw it with your dead Action card(s), and waiting a minimum of two shuffles before you actually get to use the Gold you wanted in the first place.

Ruffian is designed so that a player with a weak deck can still have a chance of catching up with a player who has a strong deck, assuming you have an idea who that is. it's a bit of a gamble most of the times as you don't know who will be keeping a strong 3-card hand and who will be keeping a weaker one. but thinking about it, the risk of handing over a good hand to the attacker might just make ALL players keep a weak hand, therefore no one will get a good round. i'll have to test out this card to find out how players react to it. i'll bump it up to $5, but if you have any suggestions on how this might work better, i'd appreciate the help.

Cost isn't really the issue with Ruffian.  It's the high variance of its effect.  If you look at the official cards, none of them typically cause that much variance.  If a Saboteur hits your Province, that stinks, but you can get a Duchy in exchange, resulting in only a 3 VP swing against you.  Most other interactive cards don't even have the potential to directly impact you even that much:  Thief doesn't work on Victory cards.  Cursers only result in a 1 VP swing.  Etc.  Jester (from Cornucopia) allows players to gain copies of other people's cards, but they don't work on Victory cards for the express reason that a player randomly gaining a Province for free is just too much of a VP swing to allow.

Masquerade is an interesting exception -- you might cause a player to have to pass you a Province, resulting in a whopping 12 VP swing against that person.  But that player would have to have a hand consisting only of Provinces to be FORCED to pass you a Province, in which case (1) it's an extremely rare circumstance; (2) that player is probably winning anyhow; (3) it's a situation that was probably preventable by the victim, in that it probably happened because he trashed his deck down too much.

Contrast with Ruffian:  It can result in a whopping 36-point swing against the victim, and the victim CANNOT defend merely by diluting his deck, because whereas any non-Province card in hand (a Copper, say) completely protects him from losing ANY vp, your card takes everything the player has in hand, period.

The fact that players have to discard to 3 cards first is a very good thing, as it allows them to discard Provinces they don't want to lose.  But that's scant comfort if they have more than two.  The nature of the discard attack also carries a severe downside:  that is, unlike Militia, where it's perfectly acceptable to discard a pair of Coppers and keep your three Golds, being hit by this card would pressure players to discard their GOOD cards and keep their junk, just in case they happen to be chosen to swap hands.  That would completely obliterate their next turn, which is not something even very strong Attack cards have the capability of doing.  Well, Torturer can if you pick the discard option every time, but it's easy enough to suck it up and take a Curse if you want to avoid losing your next turn.

I think it's a great idea to try to make a card that allows players who are behind to catch up.  That's actually a really good and interesting quality for a card to have.  But I don't think this is the way to do it.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I'm bored, so I decided to try and help with templating, at least. I noted where I copied templating from real cards.

MOB, $2, Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
At the start of Clean-up this turn, if you have any unused actions, gain a Curse. (Actions, not Action cards)
(Scheme, Diadem)


DEMAGOGUE, $4, Action
+1 Card
Trash two cards from your hand. Gain a card with cost up to the total cost in coins of the trashed Cards.
(Trading Post, Remodel, Forge)

EXECUTIONER, $4, Action
+1 Card
Trash an Action card from your hand costing at least $4 (or reveal a hand with no such cards). If you trashed a card this way, gain a Gold.
(Rats)

SLAVE MARKET, $3, Action
+2 Buys
+$3
Trash this card.
(Feast)

RUFFIAN, $4, Action-Attack
+1 Action, +$1
Each player (including you) discards down to 3 cards in hand. Choose another player. You and that player simultaneously pass each card in your hand to the other.
(This one is very non-standard, but I think this is the best wording. Masquerade)

CITY WATCH, $3, Action
+1 Action
You may discard an Attack. If you do, +2 Cards. Until the start of your next turn, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
(Stables, Lighthouse)

VISIONARY, $3, Action
+4 Cards
End your turn. (You skip your Action, Buy, and Clean-up steps. You don't discard cards from your hand or in play. You don't draw 5 cards.) Until the start of your next turn, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
(I think this weird of an effect just needs a big rules entry and clean text on the card.)

GARDEROBE, $1, Action
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or +1 Card, then discard 2 cards.
(Warehouse)

CHAMBERLAIN, $5, Action
+$2
When you discard this from play, you may put one of your Treasures from play on top of your deck.
(Herbalist)

ARCHITECT, $2, Action
+1 Action
You may discard three or more differently named Victory cards. +1 Card per card discarded.
(Cellar)

BURGOMASTER, $3, Action-Attack
Choose one: +1 Buy; or +$1
Gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Each other player gains a Copper. They may put that card on top of their deck.
(This card is ABSURDLY powerful. Explorer, Sea Hag, Royal Seal)

PICKPOCKET, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Action
Each other player may trash a Treasure card from his hand. Each player who didn't trash a card this way discards down to 3 cards in hand. You gain all of these trashed cards.
(Bishop, Militia, Thief)

FOUNTAIN, $2, Action
+$2
Discard any number of Curses. For each card discarded, gain a card costing exactly $3.
(Vault, Remake)

DIPLOMAT, $2, Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+$1
--------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, reveal a card from your hand. That player chooses one: you trash the revealed card, that player gains the trashed card, and you are unaffected by that Attack; or you return the revealed card to your hand.
(Whoo boy. Technically, the second option doesn't actually do anything, because the revealed card never leaves your hand, but it makes it clearer what happens, and it looks better then "or don't do any of that" would. Moat, Thief, Torturer)


For power and fun notes, plenty of others have already chimed in.

[Drab Emordnilap]

The wording for that would be "Trash an Action card costing at least $4 from your hand.  If you do, gain a Gold."

I suspect this card is not strong enough.  Compare to Remodel, which offers a lot more flexibility in what you exchange (though, to be sure, it cannot turn a Cellar into a Gold), and I'm not sure that a +1 Card on Executioner is enough of a boost over that. 

As a note, Executioner can only trash action cards costing at least $4.

[rinkworks]

The wording for that would be "Trash an Action card costing at least $4 from your hand.  If you do, gain a Gold."

I suspect this card is not strong enough.  Compare to Remodel, which offers a lot more flexibility in what you exchange (though, to be sure, it cannot turn a Cellar into a Gold), and I'm not sure that a +1 Card on Executioner is enough of a boost over that. 

As a note, Executioner can only trash action cards costing at least $4.

Oh, right.  So even weaker.  Remodel can do everything Executioner can do, but a lot lot more as well.  The only thing Executioner has going for it is +1 Card, which is a pretty tiny extra.

[sylas]

wow! the homework has been done for me 

Cheers Palindrome Bard.

[Archetype]

wow! the homework has been done for me 

Cheers Palindrome Bard.

So THAT'S what Drab Emordnilap means!

[Drab Emordnilap]

wow! the homework has been done for me 

Cheers Palindrome Bard.

Hah, I did the easy part. Balancing the cards is the real challenge.

Also, have you considered what happens when I play Ruffian as my last card?

[sylas]

not at all! 

told you i was a rookie.

but then what happens when you Throne Room a Torturer and players choose to discard four cards. then this is followed by the Militia. i.e. what happens if you are unable to do as the card instructs?

[Drab Emordnilap]

I'm not saying Ruffian wouldn't operate mechanically; I'm saying that we would exchange hands. Look, my hand is empty, and you have three cards. So I get your hand, and you get nothing.

[petrie911]

I'm pretty sure I would never buy pickpocket.  It lets my opponents give me their coppers, which, as we remember from ambassador, is probably the most powerful way for them to attack me.

[sylas]

how about this?


PICKPOCKET, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Buy
Each other player may trash a Treasure card from his hand. You may gain a card worth up to the total $ value of the trashed cards. Each player who didn't trash a card this way discards down to 3 cards in hand.


needs rewording, i know. my grammar isn't great

[petrie911]

Better, but what happens if my opponent trashes a bank?

[sylas]

i'm not sure. perhaps because it is trashed rather than played, you get nothing from it.

[sylas]

a couple of new cards i thought of:

AZTEC GOLD, $3, Treasure
+$3
Gain a Curse.

RAVENS, $2, Action
+1 Action
Each other player reveals his hand.

[One Armed Man]

a couple of new cards i thought of:

AZTEC GOLD, $3, Treasure
+$3
Gain a Curse.

About a dozen people thought of this card. The idea is called "Blood Money".

RAVENS, $2, Action
+1 Action
Each other player reveals his hand.

This card really doesn't do much and wouldn't ever get bought because it doesn't replace itself.

[sylas]

so many good ideas on this forum it's hard to come up with new ideas anymore

has this been done before? i don't know how to balance this in cost:

*****, $?, Action (Treasure?)
+1 Buy (or +$1? or neither?)
Trash all Copper in your hand and gain the exact equivalent amount in Silver and/or Gold. If you cannot gain any Silver or Gold this way, you gain nothing.

E.g. Trash 6 Copper to gain 2 Gold or 3 Silver. or trash 5 Copper to gain 1 Gold 1 Silver. trashing 1 Copper gains nothing.

[Archetype]

so many good ideas on this forum it's hard to come up with new ideas anymore

has this been done before? i don't know how to balance this in cost:

*****, $?, Action (Treasure?)
+1 Buy (or +$1? or neither?)
Trash all Copper in your hand and gain the exact equivalent amount in Silver and/or Gold. If you cannot gain any Silver or Gold this way, you gain nothing.

E.g. Trash 6 Copper to gain 2 Gold or 3 Silver. or trash 5 Copper to gain 1 Gold 1 Silver. trashing 1 Copper gains nothing.

I'm afraid that might be too strong. Have you seen Pawnshop from the 'mini-set design contest'? It's a bit similar to yours, but tamer.

If you really wanted to make this though, you'd probably have to price it at 7 to prevent early grabs. Later in the game, It would be much harder to get this + Coppers into your hand.

EDIT: For the Vanilla bonus, neither. 7 cost cards don't have bonuses.

[One Armed Man]

I could see that *** card working because it requires a lot of draw to make the card gain more than a gold. Gaining a Gold that way could be strong. Consider that the card is dead as soon as your average hand with that *** card working only has one copper in it.

I don't see why 7 cost cards don't have bonuses. The reason they don't currently is that the effects they give are too strong to appear on 5 cost cards without those bonuses. What about Bank?

[Archetype]

What about bank?

It doesn't exactly have a bonus, unless you count it's bonus as counting itself for how much treasure it is worth.

[eHalcyon]

I could see that *** card working because it requires a lot of draw to make the card gain more than a gold. Gaining a Gold that way could be strong. Consider that the card is dead as soon as your average hand with that *** card working only has one copper in it.

I don't see why 7 cost cards don't have bonuses. The reason they don't currently is that the effects they give are too strong to appear on 5 cost cards without those bonuses. What about Bank?

I thought you were being rude, calling it "that *** card".  Then I noticed that sylas had just titled it with asterisks.

"Trash three Copper, gain a Gold" is already really strong.  Maybe if it was cost $7, as a Forge variant?

[Archetype]

I thought you were being rude, calling it "that *** card".  Then I noticed that sylas had just titled it with asterisks.

Lol, +1