Here's Day 2, this is the beginning of what I think is the theme for his behavior this game, to hinge everything on the concept of what's "obviously scum" or "obviously not scum". And I know I'm jumping ahead, but that's why I said in my opening post today that I wasn't surprised (I'll come back to that, as you requested I move chronologically)
First post D2 is 316, and he adds a second vote to a Dsell, started by Frisk first thing on D2.
Thinking like a Mafia member here:
What if they somehow knew Robz was the doctor? They could have infered that he was because he was the founder of the Galz protecton society. The Doctor would be the best founder because they would know that they could protect them.
I think it would take a smart Mafia player to figure this out, and considering they'd have to push the Doctor into the open, they'd have to be helping him shine.
Vote:Dsell for working alonside Robz
This is not a great town play, but he may not have recognized the game state. I wonder though, because of the tone that I read in 320:
Would people please not jump to votes? It takes only 4 to lynch and there's two scum out there somewhere. If the lynch falls before I claim, you lose your free read as I die tonight unless I get really lucky. FoS Dsell if you want, but there's NO reason for him to be L-2.
True. The number of people required to lynch is scary low. Unvote.
I do think you should tell what you found out, otherwise Robz's death would be in vain.
I just seems like he' trying hard to get along. See I'm obvtown, I unvoted, and I agree with Galz, who's our cop! But why prod Galz to reveal. Galz had just explained (in 319) why he was waiting to reveal his results. I guess it's possible he hadn't read 319, but the timestamps make that unlikely, because it shouldn't have taken a long time to write 320. And the "otherwise Robz's death would be in vain" comment echoes your "I'm just hoping you have something decent after losing our doctor night one" in 312, with a little AtE thrown in.
322 (emphasis added):
You should also tell us your reads, considering they'll be coming from a confirmed Townie.
Food for thought: Did Robz really need to protect Galz? If he said he would, but then didnt, and targeted someone else, would Scum take the risk of targeting Galz? I think no.
Of course, Robz did die. So matter who he would of chosen, it wouldnt have prevented his death.
I do wonder if he did target Galz, or just blufffed he would and target someone else. Gotta ask him post-game if that ever crossed his mind.
I don't understand what this post was designed to accomplish, unless it was to add to a post count with rhetorical questions about who Galz protected. However, the bolded part is interesting, given how much heat I took over what role I thought a confirmed townie (you, Dsell) should play once we knew you were IC.
Nothing stands out in 323 and 325. Then, in 342:
I'll be gone for the whole day. I dont think Galz should tell who he jailkeeps.
Vote:Dsell just in case I'm not here before the deadline.
He checks out, placing another vote Dsell. No reason supplied (which to me is a little scummy in general, though maybe we were to infer it was still the "Dsell worked with Robz" thing, cause he didn't comment on Frisk's reasoning for unvoting Dsell. But it is a great way to put in a "safe" vote as mafia. There were 7 left, and Galz's reveal yet to be delivered, so the likelihood of a plurality lynch occurring from this single vote is very low (though it was, at the time, the only vote on anybody). Arch only gets heat D3 if Galz's reveal is specifically "Dsell is town", and he can always say "I couldn't get back, my bad". And in the 1 in 7 chance that Galz does say "Dsell is town", mafia scores a mislynch even though we would have known the lynchee was. And remember the theme, this play is too obvious to be mafia, right?
Now things get really interesting. He comes back at 398, after Jo has been hammered (though I was initially off on the counts thinking Arch made 4, when in fact he made the superfluous 5th vote):
Uh no C_F, wasn't lurking. Just wasnt going to be on for the day, which I posted in thread.
Being gone for the day isn't lurking. Lurking is being online, but not posting.
No longer have a scum read on Dsell. It was a placeholder vote anyway.
Vote: Jo if Galz's investigation is right, which I'm assuming it is.
The first two lines are to address Frisk's vote/comment about Arch lurking, which had happened while Arch was gone, and represented (to that point) the only serious interest shown in Arch (he went to 2 votes total). Why put these two lines ahead of a vote for known scum? Worried about lurking? Then another line, which is what, an apology? Why the delay in voting for scum? Then of course, the weirdness. Why in the world do you say this? Galz could be wrong? It seems to put a conditional on the vote. It seems to intimate...remorse? It's just...hinky. But remember the theme. Galz said in 404 (emphasis added):
I will admit "If Galz's investigation is right, which I'm assuming it is", is a strange thing to say - but strange in a way that I don't inherently think scum would be so forward to say. I mean, questioning my report is pretty ridiculous for scum to do, ya know?
Still, don't write it off as nothing. Just follow the plan and return to it only if necessary.
More weirdness 32 seconds later:
Uh no C_F, wasn't lurking. Just wasnt going to be on for the day, which I posted in thread.
Being gone for the day isn't lurking. Lurking is being online, but not posting.
No longer have a scum read on Dsell. It was a placeholder vote anyway.
Vote: Jo if Galz's investigation is right, which I'm assuming it is.
Oh wait, he's already lynched, right?
I don't know where to start on this. Why quote of the previous post? To now reinforce that he's actually isn't responsible for the hammer? That sounds remorseful, but why be remorseful about killing scum? Is it, "oh, man, that was bad, let's post something else quick, but let's quote the really bad post again, that'll make it too obvious for me to be mafia. A famous jazz drummer (think it was Art Blakey) once said: "When I make a mistake playing, I wait two measures and repeat it, so the audience thinks I did it on purpose".
Tying into this is Jo's 405:
Arch, buddy, that was a pretty clumsy bus. Points for trying, I guess, but seriously.
Now this is clearly SO obvious, Jo CLEARLY is directing attention away from Arch, right? But imagine scum Jo seeing the two weird posts from his teammate, and going can I spin this? It's WAY outside the box, but he had about 18 minutes to think about it, and it fits the theme. Is Jo capable of making this play as scum? I don't know, and you may have a better handle on that than me. I've never played with scum Jo, but he did enough bizarre things (as town!) in M4 that he clearly is not afraid of outside-the-box play, even if it gets him lynched as town. Here he was already dead.
One other takeaway from D2. Galz was really scumhunting in #373, and asked a lot of folks a lot of pointed questions. The question he asked Arch was (referencing the 'would you say you guys are responsible for the cop claim plan?' post):
"This was your last post before the deadline (about 11 hours out). You ended the day not voting for anybody, and had no real posted thoughts on anybody either. This quote doesn't really lead anywhere. Why should I not suspect you of being scum staying away from the fray?"
I don't recall any response, so this goes back to the topic of lurking. If we had lynched the lurker D2, we would have won D2.
Day 3 stuff. (This is getting long, so I'm going to try to be more brief, and give you the rest of D4 to think). In day 3 I saw some hedging. It started early, with a deviation from this stance in 423 where he is agreeing with your 421:
I say yes, we follow Galz's orders. Unless shraeye makes a really compelling case, why wouldnt we follow a confirmed Town PR's suspicions?
This post actually hit us both wrong (see your 425 and my 426), but I bring it up here because at 433 Arch starts his "case" on me. What changed in the interim. Shraeye did post at 433, so let's take a look at that. Could be that Shraeye made a "compelling case" (emphasis added):
Classic. I love plans that end in shraeye dying. Not really. This also happened last Blitz game, where somebody said if such and such happens, kill shraeye. I'm ok with dying if town still wins, but a quick lynch of me with no discussion is going to make the next day much harder.
I'm not entirely sure who I suspect the most right now. Archetype's last post did sound super odd. A bit like he was worried that for some reason people wouldn't go through with the lynch on me. I contrast this with Dsell's post, which suggests lynching me is best, but really doesn't sound forceful at all.
We have instructions for Galz but I don't think we should be in a hurry to end the day.
and later
I think ultimately we should probably lynch Shraeye.
I know Dsell's an IC, but assuming hypothetically that he wasn't, I'd be super suspicious of the way archetype is pushing for my lynch but wouldn't be suspicious of Dsell at all.
Additionally, SFS's case on me was really really bad. Like go through and read it. It's long and multi-point, but it makes no sense at all. Literally every action that I did became a scumtell for him. Agreeing with Galz, distancing myself from mafia, capitalizing the letter T in the middle of a sentence accidently, "coaching" people that votes and discussion are both good (who exactly was I coaching? My scum partner? All of town?)
SFS also accused me of distancing from Dsell who had attracted attention; it seems like SFS thought Dsell was my scumbuddy, but now that we know Dsell is town, SFS still hasn't reevaluated his read on me at all.
The compelling case that Shraeye made was that we needed to look at Arch. So Arch changes gears, finds another target. There aren't but two, and Frisk hasn't had a sniff of suspicion. So in 436, he leads with another strange line ("I'll be straight up with you guys") and gives us the "case" on why I'm scum. 436 is also interesting because he brings up Jo's scumbuddy comment again, to debunk it again. That's too obvious to be mafia, right? (emphasis added):
-snip-
Archetype gets lynched: I can kinda see the case here. Jo supposedly 'throwing me under the bus' being a sign that I'm scum. But I laugh when he said that. It's such a weak attempt of a saying someone is his scumbuddy it's hilarious. Now of course I could be lying about him not being my scum buddy. And again, major WIFOM.
-snip-
Yeah, that's about it. Hope you guys take this post seriously.
453 felt like deflection coupled with a weak sales attempt, and you commented on it's anti-town-ness immediately:
-snip-
If SFS turns up town, go ahead and lynch me. I don't care because I would deserve it for mislynching.
460 was the most colossal hedge I've seen in mafia, and is yet another post with so little real content (emphasis added):
My thoughts are that big post I made and these things:
Captain_Frisk: Even though he should be cut some slack for his gaming night, don't completely let him off the hook.
Shraeye: Galz was our Lawman and suspected him. He could have been right.
SFS: You should lynch this guy if he doesn't get lynched today.
I might not be here before the deadline, but I'll try to check here as much as possible. If I can't get back on, my vote still stays strong on SFS.
Note the bolded portion, as his final post of the day was to say to me "I can't believe
498, he comes back and changes his vote:
I'm back. Already reread.
Really think SFS is scum, but I have a feeling SFS won't unvote.
Vote: Shraeye
PPE: 1
As town, why wouldn't he keep his vote on the person he is so sure is scum? And why would he break a tie? Because, if I don't move to Shraeye, Shraeye might not get lynched, and Shraeye had commented on Arch several times D3. Arch knew Shraeye was town, and needed him lynched, because after the events of D3 I would look scummier than Arch at lylo, and he would be safer. Too obvious to be mafia, right?
As to the events of D4, well it's the final continuation of the theme. If Arch is mafia, wouldn't it be too obvious to kill Frisk, who thought I was town?
I really empathize with you, as I was in the same position in ZM1. My two fellow players knew I was town, voted for each other, and left the game in my hands. I hated it. But remember it's only a game. I'm not going to post anymore. I'll monitor if I can, but my mom is having a really bad day.
Vote: ArchetypeOh shit what going on?
Author
Topic: ZM3 - Game Over - Mafia Win - Spec QT Available (Read 57819 times)