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[Robz888]

Vote: Pingpongsam. This is NOT an RVS vote.

Got my role PM; VT, will be my first game as vanilla anything.

This annoyed me the second I saw it. It's such a Morgrim move. It's anti-town! We've been over this, and PPS should know better.

[Eevee]

Vote: cayvie
She would be the kind of person who would like waffles. Maybe.

Hedging already I see...trying to maintain your meta of really scummy but actually town?

Do you like waffles Eevee?  Confess...only then can you be cleansed.

I did draw town again, I swear all the mods are conspiring against me! Wouldn't want to appear scummy though, no, which is why I didn't admit to actually liking waffles in my first post.. but you caught me, I do. Full confession: I like them even even better than pancakes.

[Eevee]

Vote: Pingpongsam. This is NOT an RVS vote.

Got my role PM; VT, will be my first game as vanilla anything.

This annoyed me the second I saw it. It's such a Morgrim move. It's anti-town! We've been over this, and PPS should know better.

I dont think it's that bad. PPS is savvy enough to say that whatever his role is, I think it was said sort of jokingly and is still just an implied claim. Certainly wouldn't push the issue, at least not tothe point of forcing out a claim. nNoting you found it scummy is obviously fine.

[Robz888]

Vote: Pingpongsam. This is NOT an RVS vote.

Got my role PM; VT, will be my first game as vanilla anything.

This annoyed me the second I saw it. It's such a Morgrim move. It's anti-town! We've been over this, and PPS should know better.

I dont think it's that bad. PPS is savvy enough to say that whatever his role is, I think it was said sort of jokingly and is still just an implied claim. Certainly wouldn't push the issue, at least not tothe point of forcing out a claim. nNoting you found it scummy is obviously fine.

I don't think it's necessarily scummy, but it's certainly anti-town and bad. And to a point, anti-town = scummy. To say anything about your role is to clue the mafia in on whom to kill/not kill.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Pingpongsam. This is NOT an RVS vote.

Got my role PM; VT, will be my first game as vanilla anything.

This annoyed me the second I saw it. It's such a Morgrim move. It's anti-town! We've been over this, and PPS should know better.

I dont think it's that bad. PPS is savvy enough to say that whatever his role is, I think it was said sort of jokingly and is still just an implied claim. Certainly wouldn't push the issue, at least not tothe point of forcing out a claim. nNoting you found it scummy is obviously fine.

But he already DID claim. Claiming VT is terrible! And I know, I've done it.

[Eevee]

We are all claiming VT at the moment, just not saying it out loud. Claiming VT this early is anti-town only if you make sure others understand you really really mean it.

[Captain_Frisk]

Can't believe I missed that claim - is this going to be the earliest claim in f.ds history?  Before game start?

[Robz888]

We are all claiming VT at the moment, just not saying it out loud. Claiming VT this early is anti-town only if you make sure others understand you really really mean it.

The default assumption for each and every person in this game is role unknown. You don't want to tip the mafia to your role unless the benefit to doing so--providing the town with an investigation result, or contradicting a claim, for instance--is outweighing.

So I'm not pleased to see these VT claims get made by someone who should no better in practically every game. And I do think we under-punish bad behavior. But anyway, I would like him to get in here and defend that. I took his claim seriously, I don't know why we wouldn't. The post isn't sarcastic to me.

[jotheonah]

I hate to Vote: PPS since he was just day 1 lynched in BMV, but I agree with Robz.

[Eevee]

PPS, whether you were serious earlier or not, you should absolutely now make clear you are not clsming VT. I tried to do this for you, Robz and jonah sadly insisted on reading the claim literally.

Guys, I'd rather punish people who do this in a later game. Not really liking the idea of giving mafia a free pass on lynching a townie in this game. In fact, Vote jotheonah for trying to get the wagon rolling. I would vote both of you if I could.

[Insomniac]

So Robz and Jo, to confirm here, you're trying to get a wagon going on a VT because of policy as opposed to actually trying to scumhunt?

[jotheonah]

PPS, whether you were serious earlier or not, you should absolutely now make clear you are not clsming VT. I tried to do this for you, Robz and jonah sadly insisted on reading the claim literally.

Guys, I'd rather punish people who do this in a later game. Not really liking the idea of giving mafia a free pass on lynching a townie in this game. In fact, Vote jotheonah for trying to get the wagon rolling. I would vote both of you if I could.

"Scumbuddy, here's how you get out of this. I tried to save you but it didn't work. Now I'll see if I can chainsaw you instead"


.... is a perfectly valid reading of that post.

[Robz888]

PPS, whether you were serious earlier or not, you should absolutely now make clear you are not clsming VT. I tried to do this for you, Robz and jonah sadly insisted on reading the claim literally.

Guys, I'd rather punish people who do this in a later game. Not really liking the idea of giving mafia a free pass on lynching a townie in this game. In fact, Vote jotheonah for trying to get the wagon rolling. I would vote both of you if I could.

"Scumbuddy, here's how you get out of this. I tried to save you but it didn't work. Now I'll see if I can chainsaw you instead"


.... is a perfectly valid reading of that post.

This. I could not possibly agree more.

[jotheonah]

So Robz and Jo, to confirm here, you're trying to get a wagon going on a VT because of policy as opposed to actually trying to scumhunt?

False. The way I see it, there's three explanations:

1) PPS is VT, and he just bumbled into insta-claiming his role. PPS has played this game before and played it well, so I don't buy that.

2) PPS is a town PR and decided the best thing to do was lie about it right out of the gate. See #1

3) PPS is scum and is trying a gambit to be seen as obv. town, because f.ds never punishes bad behavior and PPS knows it.

I find all three hard to believe, but 3 is the least unlikely. Robz, what's your take?

[Robz888]

So Robz and Jo, to confirm here, you're trying to get a wagon going on a VT because of policy as opposed to actually trying to scumhunt?

I didn't say we should lynch PPS immediately without further reflection, but I do want him to get in here and explain why he did something that advantages the mafia. Voting for him, in order to get him to do this, is perfectly legitimate.

[Robz888]

So Robz and Jo, to confirm here, you're trying to get a wagon going on a VT because of policy as opposed to actually trying to scumhunt?

False. The way I see it, there's three explanations:

1) PPS is VT, and he just bumbled into insta-claiming his role. PPS has played this game before and played it well, so I don't buy that.

2) PPS is a town PR and decided the best thing to do was lie about it right out of the gate. See #1

3) PPS is scum and is trying a gambit to be seen as obv. town, because f.ds never punishes bad behavior and PPS knows it.

I find all three hard to believe, but 3 is the least unlikely. Robz, what's your take?

Again, this is exactly correct. Because it's PPS, we know #1--the harmless explanation--is unlikely. #2 would be interesting, but the problem is it creates just as much of a headache for us as it does for the mafia. #3 is certainly a better explanation than the other two (in this case), because we don't generally do anything to punish these people, and in fact treat them as obvtown, and well, they've usually been town... but that doesn't make it less of an offense. And PPS is a savvy guy.

[Captain_Frisk]

@eevee - we've covered this before - claiming VT explicitly out loud is different than the default implicit VT roleclaim.

You might want to see PPS's own post from M7
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3411.msg70206#msg70206
- in which he attempts to pair Shark_Bait and I (shark_bait early claimed VT).

He's savvy enough to know what he's doing.

[jotheonah]

Also, Robz +1 for the fastest transition out of RVS I've ever seen. Although I guess PPS gets some credit too.

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz.  Just getting the obligatory RVS out of the way.

I was irked at the PPS claim pre-game, but in the end decided it was something not to be believed.  So it's a lie, and he's scum, or it was just one of those not-funny jokey sorts of things.   I don't know.

It'd be good to hear from him.

[ashersky]

Also, Robz +1 for the fastest transition out of RVS I've ever seen. Although I guess PPS gets some credit too.

Nope.  Back to RVS!

[Voltgloss]

Mere minutes had passed since Voltgloss's untimely death, and the good citizens of Agua Caliente were already at each other's throats.

Vote Count 1-1

Insomniac (1): theorel
Robz888 (2): Insomniac, ashersky
pingpongsam (2): Robz888, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): Eevee

Not voting {7}: Captain_Frisk, cayvie, sparky5856, Grujah, Cuzz, pingpongsam, O

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 10:30 a.m. EDT

[Robz888]

Also, Robz +1 for the fastest transition out of RVS I've ever seen. Although I guess PPS gets some credit too.

You know that I just loathe RVS entirely. The second I saw PPS make that comment during confirmation stage, I breathed a sigh that was as much relief as it was frustration. "Something consequential to discuss!"

[Eevee]

Less than two hours into the game and you already found the scum pair? Good job guys!

Aw, it's like day 1 of mafia VII all over again.

[jotheonah]

I know, right? High-five Robz.

[Robz888]

Less than two hours into the game and you already found the scum pair? Good job guys!

Aw, it's like day 1 of mafia VII all over again.

Well, take everything with a grain of salt, obviously. But you need to face facts.