Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jstnrgrs]

Crystal Shop

+ infinity buys

While this card is in play, you may not buy cards with a cost of 0.

Cost: 2potions

Action

[AJD]

...This is not too bad an idea for a card effect (though it's broken in case of a combo with Procession and Goons). But barring that, it's probably worth about $2 or maybe $3, certainly not double-Potion.

[Archetype]

As far as I know, an infinite buys card has never been posted here.

The problem with +buys is that you really only need 2 additional ones, 3 tops unless you are building a Goons deck or an engine that supplies you with so many buys most are uneeded (Great and also regular Market decks).

A Double Potion cost card is not on an official card. And I think the reason is because, well, how often do you pick up 2 Potions? Yes of course theres Alchemist Stacks and Potion-heavy games with everyone having a junky deck (though you should probably do BM anyway) but other than those edge cases, there's really no reason too. If there was, I think Donald X would have made a double potion cost card when he released Alchemy.

I do think your card is very unique, but I'm afraid that it would never be bought. Even with a single Potion cost, I'd have a hard time picking one up.

I do like the bit about not being able to abuse the infinite buys by buying Coppers. Though it would be funny IRL to see someone slap this down, drop all the coppers into thier discard pile and say "Game Over". It also keeps Goons and Gardens from being OP.

I cant really judge you about mulipulating buys though, the first card I posted on here gave you -1 Buy.

Welcome to the forums! I hope that other fan cards you have made are as unique as this!

[Kirian]

I'd cost this at $2, since it's designed not to crazy-combo with Goons or Gardens.  However, I would make it some integer number of Buys (perhaps +3 or +4) as no other cards have an infinity symbol on them...

[Rush_Clasic]

My biggest issue with this card is how it limits other possible designs. What exactly can infinite buys do on a card that prohibits the purchase of $0 cost cards? In most cases, not much more than +2 to +4 Buys. But imagine the amount of cards that could potentially exist that use a Diadem-like function. There are plenty of such ideas that could work, but the existence of this card would make many unprintable. A card that eats up that much design space is bad for the future of its game.

The idea is interesting, though. Just because I find it potentially harmful doesn't mean I don't find the thought intriguing.

[Asklepios]

I like the card concept. Very intriguing!

Not sure how I'd find use from it though... especially with the PP cost.

I think I'd just cost this at $3.

Also not sure of the name. Why Crystal Shop? As in a shop made of crystal, or one that sells crystals? Either way, I don't get it. Trade Fair would make more sense to me, or Souk.

[Asklepios]

As a further thought, this'd be excellent as part of a fan expansion centred around the idea of three-piling.

Maybe to go with this card:

Bauble
($1 Treasure)
Worth $1
When you gain this card +$1

Factory
($5 Action)
Reveal a non-Victory card from your hand. Gain a copy of that card from the supply to your hand.

[Schneau]

My biggest issue with this card is how it limits other possible designs. What exactly can infinite buys do on a card that prohibits the purchase of $0 cost cards? In most cases, not much more than +2 to +4 Buys. But imagine the amount of cards that could potentially exist that use a Diadem-like function. There are plenty of such ideas that could work, but the existence of this card would make many unprintable. A card that eats up that much design space is bad for the future of its game.

The idea is interesting, though. Just because I find it potentially harmful doesn't mean I don't find the thought intriguing.

It's funny you mention it, because I was thinking of submitting a Treasure to the mini-expansion that gives +$ per extra buy you have when you play it. That wouldn't at all work with this card in play. So, I basically agree with what others have said: why not make it +3 Buys, or +5 Buys - something that's still crazy, but doesn't break the space for future cards.

[jstnrgrs]

Ok, it sounds like the consensus is that the 2 potion cost is too much.  I wanted more potion cards, which is why I gave it a potion cost.  Maybe 2 coin 1 potion would be a better cost.  The other critism is that having infinity buys could muck with other fan cards.  That makes sense (though since these are fan cards, we could always just say don't play with two cards that don't work well together).  Maybe just having +5 buys makes more sense, but it just doesn't seem as fun.  But then, I can remove the restriction on 0 cost cards, and it might be more fun again.  So now I have:

Crystal Shop

+ 5 Buys

Cost: 2 coin 1 potion

Action

It still doesn't seem as fun to me, but maybe it is the way it would work best.


The reason for the name:  I wanted potion in the cost because I wish there were more potion cards.  Therefore I wanted an Alchemy/ Magic themed name.  I remembered the book "The Alchemist", and how Santiago had spent a lot of time working in a Crystal Shop, so there you go.  (The name isn't really important, Dominoin isn't exactly dripping with theme anyway.)

[AJD]

Ok, it sounds like the consensus is that the 2 potion cost is too much.  I wanted more potion cards, which is why I gave it a potion cost.  Maybe 2 coin 1 potion would be a better cost.

No, 2 coin 0 potion would really be a better cost. There's really no good reason to have a potion in the cost of this card. (If you want to add more potion-costing cards, don't just tack a potion onto the cost of a card that doesn't need it; design a card where the potion cost makes sense.)

[rinkworks]

Donald said somewhere that he had a card that offered multiple Buys.  The trouble with it was that most of the time it was fairly useless, and the rest of the time it was overpowered.  Your innovation for disallowing $0-cost cards was interesting and one I hadn't seen before, but while that fixes the overpowered situations it only makes it all the less desirable in the (more plentiful) cases where you didn't want it anyway.

Even when you might want this, it's basically a Ruined Market, and that's a terrible way to get +Buy.  But what about making it less harmful to your deck?

Crystal Shop
+1 Card
+1 Action
+5 Buys
--
While this is in play, you can't buy cards costing $0.

I'm thinking this is still just a $2 card, normally weaker than Market Square, as the only advantage over Market Square it has is that this offers more buys -- but most of the time you won't use the extras.

I sympathize with your desire for more Potion-cost cards.  I want more too, which is why I ran it as a challenge in my set design contest.  But I don't think this idea is right for it.  Even this stronger version of the card is too weak to be worth clogging your deck with a Potion to get.

[Rush_Clasic]

I feel like potions work on a bell curve, where the initial play is entertaining, and the eventual play is entertaining, but there's a long haul in-between where people just don't enjoy them. That's how it worked for me, and a lot of my family and friends are in the "dislike Alchemy" portion of that ride. I don't think they'll make it out, though, since they choose not to use the set.

Anyway, one of the intriguing reasons to make this a potion card is that it works well if you can get a heavy potion environment. That is, if you reduce costs and can get a few Potion cards in your hand, the +buys can go a far way.

[rinkworks]

Anyway, one of the intriguing reasons to make this a potion card is that it works well if you can get a heavy potion environment. That is, if you reduce costs and can get a few Potion cards in your hand, the +buys can go a far way.

It probably goes well in several Potion setups, yes, but you have to design for any kingdom that's likely to come up, not just a subset.  Where I see this crashing and burning is if it's the only Potion card (which would be common).  It's pretty unlikely you're going to go for this, and if for some reason you do, you're not happy about it.  Pretty much the only time you'd do it, I think, is if it's the only +Buy source on the table, and it would be frustrating to have to work that hard for such a basic thing.

[jstnrgrs]

Anyway, one of the intriguing reasons to make this a potion card is that it works well if you can get a heavy potion environment. That is, if you reduce costs and can get a few Potion cards in your hand, the +buys can go a far way.

It probably goes well in several Potion setups, yes, but you have to design for any kingdom that's likely to come up, not just a subset.  Where I see this crashing and burning is if it's the only Potion card (which would be common).  It's pretty unlikely you're going to go for this, and if for some reason you do, you're not happy about it.  Pretty much the only time you'd do it, I think, is if it's the only +Buy source on the table, and it would be frustrating to have to work that hard for such a basic thing.

I would expect that people would count this as an Alchemy card and play by the 3-5 Alchemy card recommendation.  Of course if it were the only potion card it wouldn't be good, but that's the case for any potion card.

[Jack Rudd]

I would expect that people would count this as an Alchemy card and play by the 3-5 Alchemy card recommendation.  Of course if it were the only potion card it wouldn't be good, but that's the case for any potion card.

Familiar says hello.

[eHalcyon]

I would expect that people would count this as an Alchemy card and play by the 3-5 Alchemy card recommendation.  Of course if it were the only potion card it wouldn't be good, but that's the case for any potion card.

Familiar says hello.

Apothecary, Scrying Pool... Golem sometimes...

[Archetype]

…Transmute…

nah, Im kidding

An interesting take on this could be:

Crystal Shop
Cost: 2P

+1 Action
+1 Card
+ 5 Buys
All cards cost 1 less this turn, but no less than 0.
                                           
While this card is in play, you cannot buy crds with a cost of 0.

Kind of counters itself. Keeps the general premise,bit has an effect that warrents a Potion Cost.

Man, that would have been a good submission for the Potion Cost challenge.

[Jack Rudd]

I would expect that people would count this as an Alchemy card and play by the 3-5 Alchemy card recommendation.  Of course if it were the only potion card it wouldn't be good, but that's the case for any potion card.

Familiar says hello.

Apothecary, Scrying Pool... Golem sometimes...

And sometimes even University; I once had a game where University was the only potion-cost card, but the tableau also included Chapel, Minion, City and Peddler. My Chapel/Potion opening led to a three-pile on turn 13, with my having taken seven Provinces.

[rinkworks]

I would expect that people would count this as an Alchemy card and play by the 3-5 Alchemy card recommendation.  Of course if it were the only potion card it wouldn't be good, but that's the case for any potion card.

I have to concur with others who have chimed in here.  Although Potion is certainly skippable more often with only one Potion card on the table, I think Transmute and Possession are the only two you wouldn't often go for under those circumstances.  Although the 3-5 rule is recommended by the Alchemy rules, it's just a recommendation, and the Potion cards were, according to Donald, purposely designed so that they might be desirable in the absence of any other Potion cards.

Philosopher's Stone - Anti-synergizes with most of the other Potion cards anyway.
University - Fewer Potion cards probably mean more targets for this.
Apothecary - Seamlessly integrates into a deck and makes that Potion hurt less besides.  Some of the best kickers are the non-Potion cards Coppersmith, Vault, top-deck manipulators, and +Buy (there are no Potion-cost +Buys).
Alchemist - When Alchemist stacks work at all, they work just as well without assistance from other Potion cards.  Best kicker is Herbalist, but most any source of +Buy will do.
Golem - With no Village, and especially with deck-junking, this can be a powerhouse.
Vineyard - Yeah, you'd like to have University, but this is good on any +Buy board, and Workshop/Vineyard is fun.
Scrying Pool - Heavy trashing and a few non-terminals (or better still, Villages plus strong terminals) make this great.
Familiar - Great players can find ways to skip this sometimes, but for us mere mortals, ignore this at your peril.

[Asklepios]

…Transmute…

nah, Im kidding

An interesting take on this could be:

Crystal Shop
Cost: 2P

+1 Action
+1 Card
+ 5 Buys
All cards cost 1 less this turn, but no less than 0.
                                           
While this card is in play, you cannot buy crds with a cost of 0.

Kind of counters itself. Keeps the general premise,bit has an effect that warrents a Potion Cost.

Man, that would have been a good submission for the Potion Cost challenge.

Thats cool! A kind of unstable bridge! Rope Bridge?

[Archetype]

…Transmute…

nah, Im kidding

An interesting take on this could be:

Crystal Shop
Cost: 2P

+1 Action
+1 Card
+ 5 Buys
All cards cost 1 less this turn, but no less than 0.
                                           
While this card is in play, you cannot buy crds with a cost of 0.

Kind of counters itself. Keeps the general premise,bit has an effect that warrents a Potion Cost.

Man, that would have been a good submission for the Potion Cost challenge.

Thats cool! A kind of unstable bridge! Rope Bridge?

Maybe "Glass Bridge" or "Crystal Bridge" though both of those things don't exist.

[zahlman]

And sometimes even University; I once had a game where University was the only potion-cost card, but the tableau also included Chapel, Minion, City and Peddler. My Chapel/Potion opening led to a three-pile on turn 13, with my having taken seven Provinces.

University/City can be quite strong IMX when you have something that takes advantage of the extra actions. (I like it in combination with either Monument or TM, if there's a reasonable non-City source of +Buy). But it's not something I'd characterise as "fast" most of the time - I'm more comfortable with it in Colony games. Also, it really sucks if the Chapel and Potion collide on the first reshuffle; either you miss the University and you only get to trash 3 cards; or you only trash 1 card. I guess your idea was to get Minions first, then Cities, then pile the Peddlers then next turn with the +Buy?

[Jack Rudd]

And sometimes even University; I once had a game where University was the only potion-cost card, but the tableau also included Chapel, Minion, City and Peddler. My Chapel/Potion opening led to a three-pile on turn 13, with my having taken seven Provinces.

University/City can be quite strong IMX when you have something that takes advantage of the extra actions. (I like it in combination with either Monument or TM, if there's a reasonable non-City source of +Buy). But it's not something I'd characterise as "fast" most of the time - I'm more comfortable with it in Colony games. Also, it really sucks if the Chapel and Potion collide on the first reshuffle; either you miss the University and you only get to trash 3 cards; or you only trash 1 card. I guess your idea was to get Minions first, then Cities, then pile the Peddlers then next turn with the +Buy?

That was exactly my idea, and it worked perfectly.