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Author Topic: Island  (Read 2965 times)

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Tombolo

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Island
« on: September 06, 2012, 12:35:45 pm »
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I've almost always just used Island exclusively for dead cards that I can't or don't want to trash, but it occurs to me that this probably isn't the best plan.  Is it worth it to also use it on weak-but-not-useless cards like Copper?  What if there's some other trasher on the board that can get those (like Spice Merchant or Moneylender, say) and you want the Islands mainly to use on green?
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rinkworks

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Re: Island
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 12:57:46 pm »
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When I buy Island as an opener, I'm not happy if I draw Island-Copper-Copper-Copper-Copper, but if I do, I will use it on the Copper, absolutely.  I think I would do this even if I also had, or planned on using, a trasher -- even a Treasure-only trasher, like Moneylender -- for the simple reason that if I don't get rid of the Island at the earliest opportunity, I've added a dead card to my deck instead of getting rid of one.  The longer that Island sticks around in your deck, the less benefit you get when you finally do use it.  Because eliminating a card from your deck is a benefit that compounds with every reshuffle, while having a dead card is a penalty that compounds likewise.

When I get an Island in the mid/late game, I still might use it on Copper but I'm a lot less likely to.  The further you are into a game, the less deck-thinning helps you and the less dead cards hurt you.  So in that case it depends on the situation.  Certainly the presence of Moneylender or Spice Merchant in my deck (or cards that like Treasure, like Stables) will reduce the likelihood that I'll use Island on Copper.  (For that matter, Moneylenders and Spice Merchants that have done their job and outlived their usefulness are themselves good Island targets in the mid-to-late game.)
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popsofctown

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Re: Island
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 01:14:17 pm »
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Of course another variable is whether you will spend that copper later. 
You can, of course, Island away a spent Young Witch or such too.
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def

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Re: Island
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 02:33:01 pm »
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What are you doing with Island-Island-Copper-Copper-Copper (let's assume no useful 2$, too) then?
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One Armed Man

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Re: Island
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 02:47:50 pm »
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What are you doing with Island-Island-Copper-Copper-Copper (let's assume no useful 2$, too) then?
Island an island. Buy a $3 cost (maybe a terminal silver, I have just cleared 2 terminals out of my deck)! Silver is good here too.
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Octo

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Re: Island
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 05:07:31 pm »
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With Island-copper-copper-copper-copper, if you island away a copper then sure you've got rid of a dead card, but you've still got the original dead card (say an estate) still in there. Does this simply not factor in? Is it simply just more effective (though of course everything depends in Dominion) to get rid of that copper?
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popsofctown

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Re: Island
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 05:30:26 pm »
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It seems like we should worry about that Estate.  But Dominion has too much tempo to leave unused cards in your hand if you can help it.

It reminds me of when theory said, he used to not play a Feast that he drew if he drew it without Throne Room, because he wanted to "get his money's worth" out of the Feast.  He doesn't do that anymore.  As much as it sort of makes sense to do so.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Island
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 05:38:30 pm »
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With Island-copper-copper-copper-copper, if you island away a copper then sure you've got rid of a dead card, but you've still got the original dead card (say an estate) still in there. Does this simply not factor in? Is it simply just more effective (though of course everything depends in Dominion) to get rid of that copper?

Of course it depends on the situation, but if you're not trashing any cards, the likelihood that you find that Estate on the next time around is not getting any better, so you run the risk of this spiraling out of control and keeping the Island around forever. If you have good reason to believe that waiting for next shuffle is likely to help you, then sure, save the Island. But in most cases that I go for Island early, it's because there's not any other good trasher to get, so you're more likely to lose by waiting that to actually gain.
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Jive Junkie

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Re: Island
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 05:45:49 pm »
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What are you doing with Island-Island-Copper-Copper-Copper (let's assume no useful 2$, too) then?

Definitely Island the Island. 4 VP without taking space in your deck for the rest of the game is pretty nice. Not the ideal use of the Island (which was to get rid of the starting cards while also getting VP), but it's far far better than drawing it dead later.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Island
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 05:46:11 pm »
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With Island-copper-copper-copper-copper, if you island away a copper then sure you've got rid of a dead card, but you've still got the original dead card (say an estate) still in there. Does this simply not factor in? Is it simply just more effective (though of course everything depends in Dominion) to get rid of that copper?

Playing the Island removes one near-dead card (Island) and one almost-near-dead card (Copper).  Unless there is another $4 you really want, might as well get rid of those two.
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Octo

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Re: Island
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 07:14:22 pm »
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Quote
Unless there is another $4 you really want, might as well get rid of those two.
What about another Island? :) Or is that just putting good money after bad, so to speak?
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popsofctown

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Re: Island
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 07:21:36 pm »
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Island is almost never so superior to Silver that you want to hold onto the Copper. 
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