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[Octo]

I'm sure I remember somewhere it being clearly stated that you may not count or look through your discard pile. However, some cards in DA search for a card to pick up in there. Now, the cards in question nice and clearly state "Look through your discard pile" so that's fine when you're actually playing it, the question I have though is this:

Are we still not allowed to look through the pile in otherwise normal play?

Sample situation: I have Hermit and any other terminal and I'm trying to decide which to play this turn. Am I right in thinking that I cannot look through the discard pile before deciding?

The same question applies to the Trash pile and cards like Graverobber & Forager. (Though I've not heard either way previously on the trash pile)

[in general I'd rather not have everyone sifting their discard pile/trash pile before making decisions as the game would drag tremendously, so hopefully the proper ruling is that no you cannot look through your discard/trash]

[AJD]

I'm sure I remember somewhere it being clearly stated that you may not count or look through your discard pile. However, some cards in DA search for a card to pick up in there. Now, the cards in question nice and clearly state "Look through your discard pile" so that's fine when you're actually playing it, the question I have though is this:

Are we still not allowed to look through the pile in otherwise normal play?

Correct. You can't look through your discard pile unless a card (Philosopher's Stone, Counting House, Inn, Hermit, Scavenger) allows you to do so. Similarly, you can't play a second Action unless a card gives you +1 action or more.

The same question applies to the Trash pile and cards like Graverobber & Forager. (Though I've not heard either way previously on the trash pile)

You're always permitted to look through the trash pile.

[agrajag]

I've found it helpful to create a separate "good" trash pile of cards that cost between 3 and 6 when playing with Graverobber.

[Loschmidt]

Yeah, and another small pile that just had 1 of each of the treasures trashed for Forager.

[Octo]

Right, ok thanks for clearing that up.
Regarding different arrangements for the trash pile ... hmm, sounds like a bit of a pain. I was thinking of using the gold coins placed on the Forager randomizer for that part, but then you could forget to update it and also you'd still need to search through to see which treasure cards have not been trashed yet. Not terrible, but not ideal either. As for Graverobber and Rogue, yeah there's doesn't seem to be any really convenient way around that that I can think of right now, and that's going to get even more messy if cards like highway and bridge are floating around. Hmm. Guess I'll just have to see how that stuff pans out. Probably be fine in the end.

[ftl]

It worked out fine when I played even with a huge trash pile. I mean, the contents of the trash pile don't change very fast, so it's not like you need to look through it every turn like a discard pile.

The only annoying card might be a forge game, where you DO have large numbers of potentially good cards trashed at once. Haven't had a forge/graverobber game yet.

[Donald X.]

Yeah, and another small pile that just had 1 of each of the treasures trashed for Forager.

This is what I do. One pile of $3-$6, one of one of each treasure for Forager, one of the other stuff.

[Ratsia]

While playing through the DA set last weekend, we actually ended up separating all the thrashed cards into their own trash piles when playing with GR/rogue/forager. It wasn't quite a conscious decision, but instead something that simply happened as it did not require notable extra effort. After the match is over you anyway need to go through the trash and return the cards to their corresponding piles, so why not do it right away when trashing the card?

Of course that assumes plenty of table space. With limited space I'd go for the same solution Donald mentioned.

[pingpongsam]

I would note that Philosopher's stone only allows you to count the discard and deck piles not look through them.

The specific rule being discussed reads, "A player is allowed to count how many cards are left in his deck, but not his discard pile. A player may not look through his deck or his discard pile. A player may look through the trash pile, and players may count the number of cards in any pile in the Supply."

http://riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_278_gameRules.pdf

[AJD]

You will get to look through your discard pile as you count it.

[pingpongsam]

I stand corrected. Iso doesn't let me do that

[AJD]

I stand corrected. Iso doesn't let me do that

Inn on Isotropic also doesn't let you see what's in your discard pile other than Actions. (And, of course, in general Isotropic doesn't keep track of the top card of anyone's discard pile.)

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, I like that Goko let's me see a Discard top card. IRL I use this information and am careful about what appears on top of my pile (usually what I just bought).

[AJD]

IRL I use this information and am careful about what appears on top of my pile (usually what I just bought).

(That's not strictly speaking legal between turns. The cards you buy have to hit your discard pile below the cards you clean up from your hand and play area.)

[rinkworks]

A quick note to add:  I believe you may COUNT your deck and discard pile whenever you want.  But since you can't look through either, you have to turn the discard pile upside down if you want to count it.

[AJD]

A quick note to add:  I believe you may COUNT your deck and discard pile whenever you want.  But since you can't look through either, you have to turn the discard pile upside down if you want to count it.

No, just your deck. You can't count your discards without using Philosopher's Stone. (I guess Counting House etc. can't stop you from counting them.)

[AJD]

A player is allowed to count how many cards are left in his Deck, but not in his Discard pile.

[rinkworks]

My mistake!

[clb]

The reason for this was that certain people would endlessly obsess over the discard and look through and count it every turn [reference], and ask others to count theirs, etc. I believe that Donald said [reference] he was okay with people knowing the count of the discard in electronic implementations because it does not slow the game at all.

yeah - I'm too lazy to go look up the threads, so I will leave my statements as wild assertions.