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Author Topic: variant on embargo  (Read 1335 times)

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Synthesizer

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variant on embargo
« on: August 27, 2012, 12:35:17 pm »
+1

Hi,

Now that I made my first post in the Band-Of-Misfits-Rules-Questions-Thread, I might as well add in a second post while I'm at it.
I have been thinking about a variant card on embargo. I first came up with a card similar to the one in this thread:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=486.msg6659#msg6659
(didn't want to revive an old thread)

In that thread, some very good points against it were made, most importantly the possibility for deadlock state: nobody has any money, coppers cost >0 which leads to infinite game. Second most importantly: the semi-deadlock state of "green cards cost heaps, nobody wants to or is able to finish the game", which leads to un-fun situations. So I kept thinking about it, and I might actually have an idea that might work, although it's very far from the Embargo starting point. But before I get around to testing it, I might as well post it here to see if I make a glaringly obvious mistake. So:

Lobbyist
cost 0
Remove a Subsidy or Tax token from any pile. Then, place a Subsidy or Tax token on any pile.
----
Setup: place two Tax tokens on this pile.

It would work as follows:
you create exactly two tokens; Each has Subsidy on one side, and Tax on the other. The Subsidy token reduces the pile's cost by 1$ (but never less than 0$), the Tax token increases cost by 1$. The tokens stack. This results in:
- The card starts at 2$ (nice pickup on a spare buy or useless turn) but playing it will make it easier for the opponent to also get one with a spare buy.
- a maximum cost increase (or decrease) of 2$ is possible on any pile (because there are only two tokens)
- note that this gives a maximum variation of 4$ if you switch both tokens from tax to subsidy or vice versa in your own turn!
- If both tokens have been moved, you can always pick up this card for 0$, so that infinite game is less likely
- If a token has been moved, the card is in someone's deck so the infinite game problem is relieved more (that's why I removed the trashing bit)
- it will give fun combo's with TFB's
- with a surplus of actions, you can really get a tactical game, where you end your turn by a +2 increase of province cost, or maybe you first -1 the Torturer pile, Workshop a Torturer, then +1 the Torturer pile before ending your turn, thus messing with your opponent's ability to get Torturers
- that's why I didn't give it a +action; it seems that that would overpower it.

I am still uncertain about several things:
- The name sucks. Lobbying is a post-Medieval term so it doesn't fit the theme. Any suggestions?
- maybe a single tax/subsidy token is better? In that case, should it still have base cost 0$?
- Did I really stop the infinite/un-fun game state problem associated with these tokenized-cost-alteration-shenanigans?
- anything I didn't think of?

thanks for discussing!
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eHalcyon

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Re: variant on embargo
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 12:40:46 pm »
0

I like it a lot.

Maybe name it along the lines of "Unbalanced Scales" or "Uneven Balance"?

"Barter"?
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Grujah

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Re: variant on embargo
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 12:45:59 pm »
0

Copper has both of these on, how much does it cost? 1 or 0? Because if you do Tax first, and Subdue after, it costs 0, in opposite order, 1.

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razorborne

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Re: variant on embargo
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 03:17:41 pm »
+1

Copper has both of these on, how much does it cost? 1 or 0? Because if you do Tax first, and Subdue after, it costs 0, in opposite order, 1.
I don't think it works like that. I think you calculate the total cost, then, if it's less than 0, go "whoops" and bump it up.
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Synthesizer

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Re: variant on embargo
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 01:45:45 am »
0

Copper has both of these on, how much does it cost? 1 or 0? Because if you do Tax first, and Subdue after, it costs 0, in opposite order, 1.
I don't think it works like that. I think you calculate the total cost, then, if it's less than 0, go "whoops" and bump it up.

Razorborne, that was the idea indeed... (I especially like this description :)) So a pile with both a Tax and a Subsidy token, will cost (Base Cost + $1 - $1 = Base Cost). If you then play this card, remove the tax token, flip it over and re-place it as a Subsidy token on the very same pile, this means there are now 2 Subsidy tokens on the pile, and thus it costs $2 less (but never less than $0) (so subsidizing copper or curse will have no effect, but taxing it will).
Any ideas on how to make that more clear?
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