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[KingsSkort]

I spend 5 or 6 hours on a plane every week, and I would kill to be able to play dominion on my ipad during that time. I would probably kill someone if I paid $85 for a dominion app and it was online only.

[DStu]

I spend 5 or 6 hours on a plane every week, and I would kill to be able to play dominion on my ipad during that time. I would probably kill someone if I paid $85 for a dominion app and it was online only.

That's sounds like a new record for the no flight list. Online only problem solved.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

[werothegreat]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

[DStu]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

Not everywhere on the internet...

[WanderingWinder]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

I don't know why you are assuming you wouldn't buy in bulk. If you DO, it's only $75. Not that I'd buy it even if it were free....

[werothegreat]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

Sorry - it's been bothering me, and I've already pointed it out once, and I have no idea where people got $85 in the first place.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

Sorry - it's been bothering me, and I've already pointed it out once, and I have no idea where people got $85 in the first place.

We all do it, me included. 

I'm not sure where I got $85.  Probably one of the early "calculations" from a week ago came up with $85 and that number stuck with me.  But even at $78, my point is that I think that's more than the majority of the player base will consider spending, and that pricing their app based on what the top Isotropic users will pay feels a bit like pricing crack for addicts.

[Tombolo]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

Sorry - it's been bothering me, and I've already pointed it out once, and I have no idea where people got $85 in the first place.

We all do it, me included. 

I'm not sure where I got $85.  Probably one of the early "calculations" from a week ago came up with $85 and that number stuck with me.  But even at $78, my point is that I think that's more than the majority of the player base will consider spending, and that pricing their app based on what the top Isotropic users will pay feels a bit like pricing crack for addicts.

I can't really speak from experience, but I would think that IS how crack would be priced, no?

[Captain_Frisk]

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

I think for most of us - the specific # doesn't matter - its the order of magnitude.  $85 just happens to be a nice round number - and we do assume guilds because we're all addicts who will want every card - so its important to know what my total in price is going to be. 

Thunderstone on facebook looks like it costs ~$1.50 per expansion.  This is a fair comparison - thunderstone and dominion are similar games in terms of mechanics and number of cards - they are both being released on online only platforms.  The complexity to implement should be in the same realm.  Now - maybe Jay and / or DXV have much stricter licensing costs for Dominion - which I suspect that we'll never know... but somehow I doubt it that that accounts for a $1.50 -> $12 / full expansion discrepancy. 

So - either the dudes @ goko are bad developers and can't build things as efficiently as whoever is building Thunderstone, or goko is being greedy with their pricing model.  More power to them if it maximizes their revenue - but I think its reasonable to have sticker shock - regardless of whether the total price is 72.50, 77.37, 84.00, or 85.00

[werothegreat]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

But I do think you, and many of the users here, ARE in the minority who primarily want an Isotropic replacement -- a means of playing competitive Dominion online against other people.  I believe there's a larger potential player base who want a way to play Dominion on their mobile devices as a means of passing the time here or there. 

As others have stated, it seems Goko is struggling to please both camps with their pricing and their implementation choices.  Back when I would play on Isotropic regularly -- obsessively if I'm honest -- the $85 price tag would have seemed reasonable.  These days I'd put myself in the other camp and $85 seems far to expensive, even if I could play it offline against the AI.

Where do people keep getting $85?  Not that it makes all that much of a difference, but excluding Guilds, the price tag would be $78 with all expansions (if you bought all your Gokoins in sets of 50, rather than in bulk).  With Guilds, that's still $84, which is nitpicking, I know, but it's still different.

One of my favorite things about the internet: most attempts at meaningful conversation are derailed by nitpicking trivial details.

Sorry - it's been bothering me, and I've already pointed it out once, and I have no idea where people got $85 in the first place.

We all do it, me included. 

I'm not sure where I got $85.  Probably one of the early "calculations" from a week ago came up with $85 and that number stuck with me.  But even at $78, my point is that I think that's more than the majority of the player base will consider spending, and that pricing their app based on what the top Isotropic users will pay feels a bit like pricing crack for addicts.

Personally, I was advocating for $1-6 per set, preferably to the low end, but everyone got all pissy about how that was too low.  And now they're getting all pissy about how $6 each is too expensive.  I love how consistent the forumers on here are! 

[greatexpectations]

Personally, I was advocating for $1-6 per set, preferably to the low end, but everyone got all pissy about how that was too low.  And now they're getting all pissy about how $6 each is too expensive.  I love how consistent the forumers on here are! 

it's almost like we have a forum full of diverse people with diverse opinions that can have any opinion you would like them to have if the sample size is one.

[Slacker]

What I've seen of the Ascension app makes me wish Goko could put together a Dominion system that looks as good.

That said, Ascension as a game doesn't hold a candle to Dominion.

When I heard Dominion was coming I dreamed of an Ascension-level quality universal iOS app that would dominate my iPad gaming for years. Playdek got it just right, and the game and all the expansions so far has cost me a very reasonable (in my opinion) $13 (or for werothegreat: $12.96).

My biggest concern with the gokoins version is that at such a high cost of admission, there won't be the community there to sustain the game. And forget about me being able to sell this game to friends. I have a hard time selling Carcassonne at $10. Anything over five or ten bucks (like $85 $84) is going to be an impossible sell.

edit:

Personally, I was advocating for $1-6 per set, preferably to the low end, but everyone got all pissy about how that was too low.  And now they're getting all pissy about how $6 each is too expensive.  I love how consistent the forumers on here are! 

I'd easily pay $4 or $5 per expansion if the quality is there (spent like $21 on Ticket to Ride so far).

[blueblimp]

Thunderstone on facebook looks like it costs ~$1.50 per expansion.  This is a fair comparison - thunderstone and dominion are similar games in terms of mechanics and number of cards - they are both being released on online only platforms.  The complexity to implement should be in the same realm.  Now - maybe Jay and / or DXV have much stricter licensing costs for Dominion - which I suspect that we'll never know... but somehow I doubt it that that accounts for a $1.50 -> $12 / full expansion discrepancy.

Yeah, this bothers me a little too. Okay, I may be willing to pay crazy prices for Dominion, but only because it's Dominion. If it were some other game, no way. So I hope at least that RGG and DXV are getting appropriately compensated.

On the other hand, I bet there aren't many people willing to pay any price to play Dominion in a desktop browser. So the price for this needs to be a little high in order to not lose money. (I wouldn't be surprised if mobile pricing were lower, although Goko has painted themselves into a corner with their cross-platform-ness, such that I don't know how they will charge different prices by platform.)

[werothegreat]

Personally, I was advocating for $1-6 per set, preferably to the low end, but everyone got all pissy about how that was too low.  And now they're getting all pissy about how $6 each is too expensive.  I love how consistent the forumers on here are! 

it's almost like we have a forum full of diverse people with diverse opinions that can have any opinion you would like them to have if the sample size is one.

I was trying to say that the SAME people who thought my suggestion was daft and too cheap are now some of the SAME people saying the pricing scheme is too expensive WITHOUT naming names and getting finger-pointer-y.

[jonts26]

Personally, I was advocating for $1-6 per set, preferably to the low end, but everyone got all pissy about how that was too low.  And now they're getting all pissy about how $6 each is too expensive.  I love how consistent the forumers on here are! 

it's almost like we have a forum full of diverse people with diverse opinions that can have any opinion you would like them to have if the sample size is one.

I was trying to say that the SAME people who thought my suggestion was daft and too cheap are now some of the SAME people saying the pricing scheme is too expensive WITHOUT naming names and getting finger-pointer-y.

I was someone who said $1-6 would be a bit low. I'm happy $6 is what they went with, but I still think more would be a reasonable price ... if the product was in better shape. As it is now, I likely won't spend any money until certain things change.

[Captain_Frisk]

I was someone who said $1-6 would be a bit low. I'm happy $6 is what they went with, but I still think more would be a reasonable price ... if the product was in better shape. As it is now, I likely won't spend any money until certain things change.

That's about how I feel.  Paying ~$75 for an excellent implementation is fine - I just gave Doug $100.  Paying $75 for the current implementation is not.  If it cost $20-30 - then I'd probably just pay and stop whining.  With 150 other licenses - what assurances do I have that it will evolve into an excellent implementation?  I don't know - I'll wait and see.

[Kirian]

One thing is slowly becoming obvious to me:  we aren't the market they're selling to.

Consider all the detailed problems and ideas that have come up, things that are shaky if not plain bad.  Think of how many times they've been said and, importantly, by whom.  "The Fanbase," at least with respect to Isotropic and competitive Dominion, has said he's not paying for what's there already.  Most of the strongest critics are also either very good players or very active community members, or both.

Now, these critics would all love to buy an awesome implementation that is satisfactory for truly competitive play.  But there's no indication this is forthcoming any time soon, despite our suggestions and thoughts.

The question, then, is:  who is the market?  Not iOS gamers, who overwhelmingly want an offline implementation.  Not casual gamers, who aren't going to pay $12 per expansion pack, and certainly won't buy in bulk to get them cheaper.  Not the hardcore players, who want something useful for competitive Dominion.  Who, then?

I'll go post that in the Q&A thread, actually.

[Beyond Awesome]

One thing is slowly becoming obvious to me:  we aren't the market they're selling to.

Consider all the detailed problems and ideas that have come up, things that are shaky if not plain bad.  Think of how many times they've been said and, importantly, by whom.  "The Fanbase," at least with respect to Isotropic and competitive Dominion, has said he's not paying for what's there already.  Most of the strongest critics are also either very good players or very active community members, or both.

Now, these critics would all love to buy an awesome implementation that is satisfactory for truly competitive play.  But there's no indication this is forthcoming any time soon, despite our suggestions and thoughts.

The question, then, is:  who is the market?  Not iOS gamers, who overwhelmingly want an offline implementation.  Not casual gamers, who aren't going to pay $12 per expansion pack, and certainly won't buy in bulk to get them cheaper.  Not the hardcore players, who want something useful for competitive Dominion.  Who, then?

I'll go post that in the Q&A thread, actually.

Good idea.

[() | (_) ^/]

Seems I'm in the minority here.  Well, pardon me for not owning an iPad, and still owning a phone that flips open and only calls and texts.

I'm so late replying to this post because I can't browse on my phone.  I didn't see your post until I got to a computer.  I, too, have a flip-to-use-or-discontinue-using phone.

Respect.

[LastFootnote]

One thing is slowly becoming obvious to me:  we aren't the market they're selling to.

Consider all the detailed problems and ideas that have come up, things that are shaky if not plain bad.  Think of how many times they've been said and, importantly, by whom.  "The Fanbase," at least with respect to Isotropic and competitive Dominion, has said he's not paying for what's there already.  Most of the strongest critics are also either very good players or very active community members, or both.

Now, these critics would all love to buy an awesome implementation that is satisfactory for truly competitive play.  But there's no indication this is forthcoming any time soon, despite our suggestions and thoughts.

The question, then, is:  who is the market?  Not iOS gamers, who overwhelmingly want an offline implementation.  Not casual gamers, who aren't going to pay $12 per expansion pack, and certainly won't buy in bulk to get them cheaper.  Not the hardcore players, who want something useful for competitive Dominion.  Who, then?

This is a very good question. I disagree, however, that we're not the market they're selling to. If they didn't care about out business, they wouldn't have been as responsive as they have and wouldn't have set up that Q&A for tomorrow.

It seems like they're trying to sell to all three markets. I agree that the price point may scare off casual players, but It's only through incompetence that they're not reaching us or the iOS crowd. I can't speak for everyone here, but the main reasons I'm not interested in Goko are the security issues and the memory leaks. I think the interface and implementation are great!

[Captain_Frisk]

I think the interface and implementation are great!

Have you trashed your big action card to a bishop yet?

[LastFootnote]

I think the interface and implementation are great!

Have you trashed your big action card to a bishop yet?

Yep. It taught me to pay more attention to the game state and I haven't done it recently.

EDIT: That being said, I'm all for that sort of thing being more obvious (big red X or similar). The interface isn't perfect. It's just very good.

[Razzishi]

I think the interface and implementation are great!

Have you trashed your big action card to a bishop yet?

Yep. It taught me to pay more attention to the game state and I haven't done it recently.

EDIT: That being said, I'm all for that sort of thing being more obvious (big red X or similar). The interface isn't perfect. It's just very good.

One reason I cannot get into Magic Online is that it's pretty easy to make mistakes that are absolutely impossible in the cardboard version, and you have to be paying attention fairly closely to make sure you play your effect at the right time as opposed to just saying aloud when you're playing something.  Most people seem to accept it as a fact of life of Magic Online, and claim that they better understand the rules and how to time things now that they have to be careful.  Me, I already knew all that and vastly prefer just having to say what I want and having it happen as intended.

But back to Dominion.  If it's even remotely possible that you'd trash a card to Bishop that you intended to play, that is completely unacceptable.  It's not like you're ever going to take a card out of your hand, put it on the table, and then have someone say "you never said you weren't trashing to my Bishop, therefore you must trash that card."  Or similarly for discarding for a Militia.  Those scenarios just never happen, because we have actual physical control over the cards and are able to declare affirmatively what we're doing and discuss with our opponents when we disagree about the game state.  When you let a computer be the final arbiter of what goes, you need to make sure that the humans giving it instructions are actively aware of how their instructions will be interpreted; it is irresponsible to ever have the exact same human procedure for playing an action card and trashing a card without a significant change in display.  Maybe if I ever get in the beta I can give a bit more pointed feedback on how to improve such things.