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Author Topic: Bonfire  (Read 38188 times)

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engineer

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2012, 02:38:20 pm »
+1

To make it more engaging for casuals - newcomers, they should to LoL - scheme: you got some mini expansions for free each week, and it changes.

Actually this is a phenomenal idea.  It gives casual players a chance to test things out and get used to them and form opinions, and it gives the hardcore players a bit better experience without having to shell out 80 bucks.

I'd also be pretty cool with implementing their RP/IP system where you CAN just grind forever if you really want gameplay elements for free and can resist the shiny little "don't you want them now for a few bucks" button.  I'm guessing that's a pipe dream, though.

Well, you would probably pay in Gokoins or whatever, and buy a bucket equivalent to a bunch of games only occasionally.
Also under my proposed model it would only be $0.25 per game if you always lost, and with a 10% rake you would only need a win rate of 1.2 to break even.
Obviously these numbers would need to be tuned, but I think it has potential.

This just...doesn't sound fun to me personally.  Regardless of when I pay, what form of currency I pay, and even how much I pay, it's a psychological barrier knowing that I have paid money to play this specific game of Dominion, and I had BETTER ENJOY IT OR I WILL HAVE WASTED THAT PENNY/QUARTER/DONALD X. FUNBUCK.  Not to mention it increases the pressure to win, which I don't particularly enjoy.  The goodies when I win I don't think would balance out the frustration when I don't.  That and I foresee a wave of unsavory play from people focused more on getting more coins than actually having fun.  I can't pretend I'd have TOO strong an objection to becoming WW's personal whipping boy and coin farm, but given how much shenanigans there are on isotropic with the sole motivation of a leaderboard, I am kinda scared that it would turn the server into a hive of cheaters and people who only play one board ever.  Maybe those problems wouldn't actually happen, and maybe other people don't share my qualms...but even if it would save me money, your idea stresses me out just to think about it.

I agree with this sentiment.  There's a real psychological cost when you use any sort of gambling or pay-per-game model.  It puts much more stress on the individual game experience, and many people loathe that type of experience and avoid it at all costs.  Lots of people won't gamble for pennies even though no actual risk of financial ruin exists.

I also agree with your point about how people act in the presence of such incentives.  If people go crazy over something as meaningless as a leader board, imagine what they would do once there's money on the line.  Even fake money!
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Grujah

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #76 on: August 19, 2012, 03:05:19 pm »
0

To make it more engaging for casuals - newcomers, they should to LoL - scheme: you got some mini expansions for free each week, and it changes.

Actually this is a phenomenal idea.  It gives casual players a chance to test things out and get used to them and form opinions, and it gives the hardcore players a bit better experience without having to shell out 80 bucks.

I'd also be pretty cool with implementing their RP/IP system where you CAN just grind forever if you really want gameplay elements for free and can resist the shiny little "don't you want them now for a few bucks" button.  I'm guessing that's a pipe dream, though.

(For those that do not know, Riot Points (RPs) can only be gained from RL money. Influence Points (IPs) are gained by playing a lot, winning, and so on. You can buy almost anything with IPs, except RP exclusive stuff, none of which are gameplay related, but cosmetic and bragging stuff (and some technical, like porting to another server). Also, there are >100 characters (champions) to play with, which you must unlock with IPs or RPs. Each week, however, ~5-10 characters are free).

Doesn't even need to have a way for you to gain IPs, just give free previews each week, and it WILL get people hoooked. By pro plays a lot of LoL, and while he usually grinds for IPs he did spend some RPs too (not much, but they've been buying each other RPs for birthdays and so). Now, he has few main characters that he plays at a time, but always tries a few free ones, just for kicks. And 80% of his buys are, i think, that week's free champions that he liked a lot.

It makes the game more interesting and not the same all the time, which engages you more, which makes you try new stuff, gets you to like new stuff, and eventually gets you to buy it, cuz you liked it.

But I guess they are already doing this in a different form, by allowing you to play custom games with other people's sets. But you know, just throwing it out there.
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pst

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2012, 03:10:27 pm »
+5

but one suspects that Isotropic was, on the whole, a big net win for RGG

To me that is so obvious so I almost can't understand why this is even discussed. If it wasn't for Isotropic I would have only bought Dominion Base. If it wasn't for Isotropic I wouldn't have bought the expansions and I wouldn't have bought Dominion + a couple of expansions as gifts. If Dark Ages was on Isotropic now I would probably have ordered that as well. Now I'll wait and see.
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carstimon

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2012, 06:23:15 pm »
0

ttp://developer.goko.com/#/press
Quote
Live today is the first ever cross-platform multiplayer version of Dominion
(emphasis mine)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 06:24:49 pm by carstimon »
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blueblimp

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #79 on: August 19, 2012, 07:52:46 pm »
0

ttp://developer.goko.com/#/press
Quote
Live today is the first ever cross-platform multiplayer version of Dominion
(emphasis mine)
That seems to be from August 16th. Also, I assume they mean "cross-platform" as in both desktop and mobile.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2012, 08:07:27 pm »
+2

ttp://developer.goko.com/#/press
Quote
Live today is the first ever cross-platform multiplayer version of Dominion
(emphasis mine)
That seems to be from August 16th. Also, I assume they mean "cross-platform" as in both desktop and mobile.

Ummm - both goko and isotropic are web based - isotropic was playable on mobile devices.  To my knowledge the only problem with playing mobile was the dragging interface for cards that required re-order (navigator, scout, cartographer, apothecary, oracle). 
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blueblimp

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #81 on: August 19, 2012, 08:21:38 pm »
0

ttp://developer.goko.com/#/press
Quote
Live today is the first ever cross-platform multiplayer version of Dominion
(emphasis mine)
That seems to be from August 16th. Also, I assume they mean "cross-platform" as in both desktop and mobile.

Ummm - both goko and isotropic are web based - isotropic was playable on mobile devices.  To my knowledge the only problem with playing mobile was the dragging interface for cards that required re-order (navigator, scout, cartographer, apothecary, oracle).
True, but as you point out, isotropic wasn't quite complete on mobile. I briefly tried it and the lack of using touch events was also a problem, because there would be a significant delay between tapping something and the app responding. Also, the interface is not really designed to fit on a tablet screen.

From what I've tried of Goko on my iPad, it'll be a lot better (for online play), provided they can get the performance good enough. (Right now it's pretty laggy, but I hope the company wouldn't invest so heavily into HTML5 unless they had verified that performance can be made good enough.)
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carstimon

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2012, 09:55:42 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 10:08:48 pm by carstimon »
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blueblimp

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2012, 10:50:23 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
I agree that they are using a weird meaning of cross-platform. But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"? That isn't a completely ridiculous thing to mean by "cross-platform".
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polonkus

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2012, 11:35:06 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
I agree that they are using a weird meaning of cross-platform. But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"? That isn't a completely ridiculous thing to mean by "cross-platform".

Yeah but you can actually play isotropic right now on mobile devices, whereas everything I've seen and heard points to Goko being unbearably slow/awkward on a phone.
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blueblimp

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2012, 11:37:52 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
I agree that they are using a weird meaning of cross-platform. But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"? That isn't a completely ridiculous thing to mean by "cross-platform".

Yeah but you can actually play isotropic right now on mobile devices, whereas everything I've seen and heard points to Goko being unbearably slow/awkward on a phone.
I haven't tried it on a phone. It's playable-but-laggy on an iPad.
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carstimon

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2012, 02:50:07 am »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"?
To us who know what isotropic is, yes.  But to people who don't, it's ambiguous and the common definition goes against what they're saying.  I disclaim that I was just itching for things to call them out on because I'm bitter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2012, 02:10:45 pm »
0

ttp://developer.goko.com/#/press
Quote
Live today is the first ever cross-platform multiplayer version of Dominion
(emphasis mine)
That seems to be from August 16th. Also, I assume they mean "cross-platform" as in both desktop and mobile.

Ummm - both goko and isotropic are web based - isotropic was playable on mobile devices.  To my knowledge the only problem with playing mobile was the dragging interface for cards that required re-order (navigator, scout, cartographer, apothecary, oracle).

I play Isotropic on my iPad all the time. The only problem I have with it at all is that the normally awesome Scout card loses much of it's power due to not being able to drag-to-reorder. It's almost not even worth buying Scout when playing on the iPad. :(
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2012, 02:12:54 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
I agree that they are using a weird meaning of cross-platform. But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"? That isn't a completely ridiculous thing to mean by "cross-platform".

They haven't actually optimized for mobile browsers though (straight from goko:
https://getsatisfaction.com/goko/topics/can_dominion_be_played_with_an_iphone)

They have a 1 size fits all that is optimized for ipad 1 screen resolution, and everyone else just gets that.

Now playing on an ipad 1....

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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2012, 02:33:27 pm »
0

I would call isotropic cross platform because you can use it on any computer.  I would even call something which ran on only windows and Macintosh cross platform, even though I use LInux.  I guess it might be reasonable to say this is not a standard definition now.

Since Wikipedia is the ultimate judge of truth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform agrees with me.
I agree that they are using a weird meaning of cross-platform. But isn't it obvious that they mean "both runs on desktop browsers and is optimized for mobile browsers"? That isn't a completely ridiculous thing to mean by "cross-platform".

They haven't actually optimized for mobile browsers though (straight from goko:
https://getsatisfaction.com/goko/topics/can_dominion_be_played_with_an_iphone)

They have a 1 size fits all that is optimized for ipad 1 screen resolution, and everyone else just gets that.

Now playing on an ipad 1....

I was never able to play on my iPad 1 without it crashing. 
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blueblimp

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Re: Bonfire
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2012, 05:54:09 pm »
0

Yeah alright. I'm being to generous to their press release wording. :P

(And currently the performance is inadequate even on an iPad 3, so I'm not surprised to hear it's not working out well on an iPad 1.)
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