Ok. I'm back and on Eastern time now.
I'm glad my post stirred some things up. I will try to address most of what has happened.
Ok, really Morgrim. Sheeping me and voting is not the same as a meaningful contribution. I mean, it's better than before, but still not really very helpful. Luckily though, it caused some posting which I think is good. So indirect benefit.
I don't think Eevee thinking that he was at L-1 was at all scummy given that he said he was on his phone, and Frisk had just said this
That leaves scum with the option to quick hammer.
Panicking that people are about to lynch you without giving you any time to defend yourself is totally reasonable. I completely agree that it is not time to end the day, and will consider quickhammering a scum move and vote accordingly tomorrow (Game time).
Neither do I think that attempting to start a wagon on Ashersky yesterday was scummy. Looking for other potential wagons when you think the current one is on a townie is certainly not a bad idea.
Eevee's Response to my Accusations:
You say you have been relying on more active players for information. I know I have answered a lot of questions and generally tried to provide as much info as possible, has any of that been bad this far? Am I being called out for being too helpful and not participating on a townie lynch now?
First vote on me was to raise discussion, 2nd was morgrim being morgrim and joining every possible wagon, no one else has voted. Frisk did talk about "ending the day", implying he thinks we are close to the lynch which is interesting I think (yes he said he doesn't want to do it, but he planted the possibility in our minds now).
If you lynch a townie (like me) and someone dies at night, there'll be two mafias and three townies alive tomorrow. Is the case on me compelling enough to risk that? How many of you think today's lynch target has been found?
If you have any specific questions, fire away! I don't really know how to defend myself.
I don't think responding to the questions is scummy. I agree that you have been very helpful, and I appreciate it. Obviously I don't find you scummy for not lynching town. My points were this:
1. With O gone, the power of the other experienced players to steer the game increases. This is motive for you and/or Frisk to NK O.
2. Yesterday you appeared to denounce a Robz lynch while simultaneously saying subtly that it was inevitable and a good idea.
Neither of these is damning evidence. Others have motives to NK O, and your actions yesterday could easily be those of a townie who was conflicted on Robz alignment (head vs. heart, as you said, or gut vs. brain or something like that). However, together they made you appear slightly scummy to me, so I decided to vote to get things moving, and I believe I was successful.
Is your last point saying that we shouldn't lynch you or that we shouldn't lynch anyone now? I agree it's not lynching time. Obviously if we lynch a townie we're sort of screwed (see below).
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely.
This assumes both votes on Eevee now are from town. I don't think we can make that assumption safely.
Obviously, Frisk was saying that scum
could quickhammer
if Morgrim and I were both town. He was not assuming we were. I just think this point doesn't make a lot of sense. Putting someone at L-2 means that scum could potentially quickhammer. This isn't so dangerous today, as they would certainly be lynched tomorrow.
Tomorrow, however, it could be important. If we lynch town, and scum successfully NK, then we will be in lylo and any vote will allow scum to quickhammer and win. Remember this tomorrow.
Quickhammering and completely killing the discussion now would look so ridiculously scummy it's not really a consideration. Just no one do it if you are town, and we are good. Of course I would prefer either of them unvoting seeing how I'm town, but it is what it is. Ashersky, what do you think about the case on me? If I'm not your biggest suspect, who is?
I suppose I have plenty of reason to suspect you, not the least of which was your leading the charge for a wagon on me on D1. More, your initial reaction to the two votes on you was unbelievable, as I am sure you knew from the start you were not at L-1, but acted like you were. You're smart, and you would know it's 4 to lynch on D2, not 3. All sort of scummy to me.
I think Geolib needs a closer look, though, as he's been pristinely town in his posts, which I fell for at first, but now I suspect is more of a honey instead of vinegar play. I need to take a closer look at his D2 posts so far, and I don't think any of us have really been eyeing him as much as we need to.
Assuming both town claims are true (Morgrim and Eevee), that leaves (in suspicion order) Geo, Cuzz, Jorbles, and Frisk (and then me, I guess), as possible scum (or PRs). I'm not assuming the claims are true at this point though, especially since Eevee's came at L-2 instead of L-1, and Morgrim is Morgrim.
As I said before, him voting for you on D1 is not a scumtell.
Voting is not a scumtell. I mean, seriously? Also above, getting confused, especially in light of Frisk's comment and his phone posting (which he mentioned in his post) is not scummy at all. What is this brilliant plot you think Eevee has? To pretend he's at L1 so that...what? This is almost as good as his D1 plot to pull suspicion off his scumpartner, Robz, by putting it on himself. When did Eevee just become this devious criminal mastermind.
Addressing your case against me... Wait, what? It's that I'm "pristinely town?" By all means review my posts, and I'm certainly not saying write me off as obvtown because I have towny posts (although it would be good for town because I
am town), but since when did being towny become a scumtell?
Ant then what, assuming both town claims are true? You mean Eevee saying that he was town? I AM TOWN. Did I move to the bottom of your suspicious list? I shouldn't've because that's not really a claim... (although it's true)
Moving on from that... I mean, I'm sorry ashersky, but that post was just a mess of ridiculousness.
Oh wait, the next weird thing is from ashersky too...
I was checking the thread with my phone, that's why I was confused about the amount of votes. You can notice the fact I was on phone from the lack of capitalization and also from me telling you. I think that's an excellent example of a mistake that is not at all scummy.. seriously, what on earth do you figure I was thinking "Okay, I'm going to pretend I'm at L-1, surely no one will notice I'm actually not!!". Makes absolutely no sense, does it?
Oh and you think me derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (robz) by trying to introduce a new target (you) is scummy now? Uh?
Vote: ashersky, sorry buddy you are looking like you want to make me look bad even though you have nothing. Neither of those things is AT ALL damning!
Wow, that was an unexpected response. I wrote a post outlining why I could highly suspect you, but temper that with reason and discuss the need to look at someone else, and you...get super defensive?
@Frisk: I will clarify that I don't suspect Eevee is scum because he suspects me. I did say that Eevee trying to start a wagon on me was a reason, which is different than Eevee's repeated claims that I'm scum. It's just as possible Eevee (as scum) knows I'm town and would push my lynch for that reason, right?
As for Eevee's claim that he was "derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (Robz)" as a positive on his ledger strikes me as revisionist, since the only way he could have known for sure Robz was town on D1 was to be scum. So he was actually trying to derail the lynch of someone who ended up flipping town, which definitely reads differently.
Back to Eevee, your extreme overreaction to my post would be enough to make me comfortable putting you at L-1. I think it would be informative for the group if anyone unvotes or hammers right away. Still, it's early, and losing town wouldn't be helpful.
Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
So as outlined above, I don't think your post was "tempered by reason and discussion." I don't think you provided any reasons why you could "highly suspect" him either. As scum, he would be unlikely to derail the lynch of a townie is the point. He didn't actually derail it, but starting another wagon looks towny to me, although it could be scum trying to make himself look townie. Threatening to put him at L-1 now? Really? For the record, I would unvote as soon as I saw that because I do not think anyone should be at L-1 this early.
To your last point, I say certainly examine me and come back with your results. That would be a towny thing to do. And was reminding Eevee that I was voting for him supposed to make him flip to your side or something. That would be hugely OMGUS.
I agree with Eevee that I think both scum on wagon is far more likely than both scum off, so I'm not completely sure why we're looking way more closely at people who didn't lynch a townie. My reasons for voting Eevee did not include that he wasn't on the wagon.
I'm not sure I like Frisk's redefinition of the wagon, especially given the assumption that one was on and one was off. In my mind, that makes Eevee certain scum, which I am not prepared to say.
Frisk, if this doesn't convince you I can't really offer anything else.
... I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I was willing to hammer, but I wanted to delay for the vote of the majority of players for two reasons. The first is that I wanted to be sure that most people thought discussion wouldn't help us much anymore. I think most people did, but I wanted to be sure. The second is that I thought we might be able to analyze people's votes here if they were unusual. Only, Geolib, O and my own implied vote ended up happening though so we didn't end up getting much info, and none of us voted surprisingly.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Lynching already happens by majority vote. What's the point in waiting for a meta-vote on whether someone should hammer? Why would the breakdown of that discussion differ at all from the actual vote?
Because just because you want to vote for someone does not mean that you think the day should end and they should be lynched. I'm voting for Eevee right now, but I have stated numerous times that I am not prepared to lynch him.
I'd say that it's more likely that one would be off and one would be on. I don't have a scummy read on either of Eevee or Geolib at this point, odds are good that I will be voting for one of them at the end of the day, but since I don't know which one yet I guess I don't really have a lot to add to that thought line right now. I will reread some of the older posts before the day is done and see if I can form a stronger opinion.
When did the options become me and Eevee? I think scum are more likely to be on the wagon than off. Not saying they couldn't be off, but I think both off is extremely unlikely and both on is fairly likely. I agree with Eevee that searching exclusively off wagon seems really backward to me.
Let's say both scum on and one on one off are equally likely. Then, from an objective perspective:
Those on the wagon have a 37.5% chance of being scum, and those off the wagon have a 16.7% chance of being scum. If my math is write, then why are we looking off the wagon? Those on are more than twice as likely to be scum.
I think my vote on Eevee served to get things moving, but the one who came out looking scummy was not Eevee. I still think he is suspicious, but no longer the most suspicious.
With all of the above in mind,
vote:asherskyIn addition to above. Eevee makes the point that delaying the Robz lynch might have allowed the ashersky wagon to build, but asher's hammer didn't let it.
With that wall of text out of the way. I'm going to bed. On eastern time now. I will try to keep posting thoroughly, but I have actual things to do now, so it may be less frequent.
Author
Topic: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Game Over Town Wins (Read 103700 times)