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[zahlman]

[upgrade + rats]

You think this is faster than Forge/Rats?

I think it will be. The problem with Forge/Rats is getting to $7. (Getting Rats to line up with the Forge shouldn't be a problem when there are Rats everywhere ) Meanwhile, with the Upgrade, whenever you Upgrade a Rats, Upgrade turns Rats into Upgrade while Rats simultaneously temporarily turns Upgrade into Lab.

Yeah but you never get Provinces...

Well, you'll have to buy them, of course. The idea is to Upgrade Upgrade->Gold. It's slow to set up, but I can imagine gaining several Golds at once somewhere in midgame, and then starting to buy a bunch of Provinces. I guess Bank would be helpful here, since it would let you continue with Upgrading and have a path all the way to Province, while still having a Treasure at the $7 level.

[SuperHans]

[upgrade + rats]

You think this is faster than Forge/Rats?

I think it will be. The problem with Forge/Rats is getting to $7. (Getting Rats to line up with the Forge shouldn't be a problem when there are Rats everywhere ) Meanwhile, with the Upgrade, whenever you Upgrade a Rats, Upgrade turns Rats into Upgrade while Rats simultaneously temporarily turns Upgrade into Lab.

Yeah but you never get Provinces...

Depending on how your opponent is playing, 3-piling [rats, upgrade, duchy] could be very quick. The upgrade supply will surely run out. If the rats supply doesn't look like it will empty, then upgrade the upgrades into golds and purchase provinces.

[gman314]

I want to try Rats/Develop. The principle is the same as the general 2 Rats + tfb (although, you might want a second Develop). You can develop Rats into a $5 and a $3. How desirable this is will obviously depend on the board, but in general, the $5s are key cards that you want for an engine and the $3s are engine supporters that you also want.

[HiveMindEmulator]

[upgrade + rats]

You think this is faster than Forge/Rats?

I think it will be. The problem with Forge/Rats is getting to $7. (Getting Rats to line up with the Forge shouldn't be a problem when there are Rats everywhere ) Meanwhile, with the Upgrade, whenever you Upgrade a Rats, Upgrade turns Rats into Upgrade while Rats simultaneously temporarily turns Upgrade into Lab.

Yeah but you never get Provinces...

Well, you'll have to buy them, of course. The idea is to Upgrade Upgrade->Gold. It's slow to set up, but I can imagine gaining several Golds at once somewhere in midgame, and then starting to buy a bunch of Provinces. I guess Bank would be helpful here, since it would let you continue with Upgrading and have a path all the way to Province, while still having a Treasure at the $7 level.

Well then you still have the problem of having to line up 3 cards to buy a Province -- 3 Golds. While it's true that Upgrading Rats doesn't decrease your hand size, I'm not convinced that this is super fast. Maybe it is, but I'm doubtful it's much faster than any other Rats combo, Forge/Rats included. The thing is, if you want to make it accelerate faster to getting Golds, you might have to play more Rats, which means having extra Rats left over when the Upgrades are gone, which get in the way of lining up your Golds. I think there is a combo here, but I doubt it's a fast one in the absence of other support. Now say there is another good $5 pile, then you're probably in business.

[zahlman]

Now say there is another good $5 pile, then you're probably in business.

Well the argument was made that Duchy qualifies But yeah I think a strategy like this probably needs some other enabler. Forge/Rats OTOH... idk, maybe try to get lucky with Baron?

[HiveMindEmulator]

Now say there is another good $5 pile, then you're probably in business.

Well the argument was made that Duchy qualifies But yeah I think a strategy like this probably needs some other enabler. Forge/Rats OTOH... idk, maybe try to get lucky with Baron?

Yeah, I think something like Baron or Smithy that might get lucky and hit $7 early might be a good idea, and then if you don't hit $7 soon enough, just have a backup strategy (big money, at the worst).

[Scissors61]

Honestly, I think rats will go untouched in 95% of games.

You could get one to Ambassador to your Golem-using opponents!

You, sir, have a sick, twisted mind.






I like it...