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[Davio]

Graverobber is an interesting new card in that it allows Bishop to gain an infinite amount of points by trashing cards every turn and gaining the cards back from the trash.

Here's my question for you: What is the maximum number of points that you can gain per turn (indefinitely) by using this Bishop + Graverobber trick?

• You are playing solitaire
• You can handpick your starting deck and hand
• You're not allowed to buy/gain any cards other than those that have been trashed by you this turn
• Even though you are playing solitaire you can not leave cards in the trash to pick up later
• You should be able to repeat the same turn indefinitely
• Deck size is unlimited (only limited by availability of a legal setup)

Basically, the solution should be: Trash a couple of cards for X VP, get the cards back with Graverobber, be able to set up the exact same situation for your next turn.

Normal mode: No Durations
Insane mode: Durations

Simple example:
Village-Bishop-Graverobber, Adventurer
Play Village, play Bishop to trash Adventurer for 4VP, play Graverobber to get Adventurer from the trash pile.
Rinse and repeat.

[DStu]

Deck: 10KC, 9Graverobber, 9Bishop, 1Pool, 1 Village, 1 Scheme, 2 Highway 10Peddler, 9Forge, 8 Expand
Hand: Pool + 4 cards

Play: Pool (draw everything). Village. chain play 5KC gives us 9 actions to KC, play 9x3xBishop trash 10Peddler, 9 Forge, 8 Expand for 10x5+17x4=50+68=118VPs
play 2 Highways, Scheme, play 5KC gives us 9 actions to KC, play 9x3xGraverobber, take 10 Peddler, 9 Forge, 8 Expand back.
Set Pool back.


Edit: Insane mode: add Outpost
Edit2: That would be the 11th unique card, but you could have some of the once above out of the BM.

[jomini]

We have no limit on deck size?

University (gain inn, shuffle all actions into deck) -> Scrying pool (draw all actions) -> Scheme x5 (I will put scrying pool back on top with university and 3 other cards to avoid a reshuffle) village -> ambassador (return inn to stock) -> village x 5 -> council room x8 (draw all colonies & plats) -> Tr -> Kc chain 10 Kc's (22 triple plays) -> 9 Bishops trash 7 colonies, 20- plats -> bridge x2 (plats cost 3, colonies 5) -> 9 grave robbers (grab back 7 colonies and 20 plats) -> chancellor (discard deck).

We could throw in a bunch of TR -> monuments, but I think that is not in the spirit of the puzzle. This should give us 142 VP per turn indefinitely.

With durations, we could through in an outpost and double the above score.

[jomini]

Had too many cards above:


University (gain inn, shuffle all actions into deck) -> Scrying pool (draw all actions) -> Scheme x5 (I will put scrying pool back on top with university and 3 other cards to avoid a reshuffle) -> university x8 (9 actions) -> ambassador (return inn to stock, draw 5 colonies or plats) -> council room x6 (draw all remaining colonies & plats)  -> Kc chain 10 Kc's (21 triple plays) -> 9 Bishops trash 7 colonies, 20 plats -> bridge x2 (plats cost 3, colonies 5) -> 9 grave robbers (grab back 7 colonies and 20 plats) -> chancellor (discard deck).

Should still give 142 VP per turn.

[jomini]

Also, is the Uni -> Inn -> Ambassador trick legal? It does "gain a card" but only for its on gain function and it is not ever used. If not I think you could still do the above with a sequence of: non-drawing village -> trash an inn -> grave rob back the inn -> Scrying pool if my understanding of grave robbing's mechanics are correct.

[Davio]

Jomini, you may create a variant with it if you wish, but it's outside of the original scope.

When I create a puzzle it's more of a group challenge in finding upper bounds instead of something which has one unique answer and the other answers are all wrong.

[jomini]

Nah that is fine, I was just asking because I wanted to be sure what the rules are.

Well in any event then I think this is the best I can manage:


Kingdom:  1. Scrying pool 2. Inn 3. Governor 4. Scheme 5. Kc 6. Bish. 7. Grave robber 8. Bridge 9. Throne Room 10. Chancellor

Hand: Sp, Inn, Grvr, Tr, Sch
Deck: Sch, Sch, Sch
Discard: Everything else

Play: Tr -> Gov (trash  Inn, Kc is the only 7 in kingdom and none are left to gain, draw 3 cards, +2 actions) -> Grvr (gain inn from trash, shuffle all actions into a new draw deck) -> Sp (draw all actions and 1 of the Col/Plat/G) -> Scheme x8 (will be used to generate the starting hand/deck on deck top) -> Inn (draw & discard the same two cards, +2 actions) -> (Tr -> gov) x8 (draw all Col/Plat)  -> Kc x10 (21 triple plays) -> Bish x9 (trash 7 colonies, 20 plats) -> Brg x2 (plats cost 3, colonies 5) -> Grvr x9 (gain 7 Col/20 plats) -> Chl discard deck.

Cleanup:
Top deck: Sp, Inn, Grvr, Tr, Sch, Sch, Sch, Sch



Should give 142 points without outpost. Adding outpost would just require getting inn and outpost out of the black market deck and allow 284 points per turn.

[DStu]

And of course you can posses yourselve...

[T-hawk]

Kc x10 (21 triple plays) -> Bish x9 (trash 7 colonies, 20 plats) -> Brg x2 (plats cost 3, colonies 5) -> Grvr x9 (gain 7 Col/20 plats)

Just thinking about the theoretical limit to this.  There's 10 Bishop and 10 Graverobber cards, and there's no way to get them out of the in-play zone once played.  With KC, you can get a maximum of 30 plays of these actions.  You'd need enough villages and draw power (without using KCs, but TR is available) to draw everything and play the KC x 10 chain and Bridges.  The most expensive available trashing targets are 8x Colony and 22x (Platinum / Province / Peddler), meaning 8x6 + 22x5 = 158 VP chips.

That all figures that 10 of each card can be used, that the game continues even with empty supply piles.  If you need to avoid that, the limit is 29 Bishop/Graverobber pairs (9 of each KC'd, one TR'd).  Since Bishops and Graverobbers are empty, we can only use 7x Colony, so the limit is 7x Colony and 22x (Platinum / Province / Peddler) for 148 total.

How to set up the villages and draw power?  Maybe 8x TR and 9x City could do it, freeing up supply slots by dispensing of the Scrying Pool / Inn / Governor engine and maybe even Chancellor.