Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FishingVillage]

Well, I was late on the draw, and I forgot to submit my entry in time. Whoops! But anyway I thought the entry I had in mind was unique and also useful, so I'll just post it here for critique if that's ok. I had some other entries in mind that I was eventually going to post here for non-contest related critique.

Quicksilver $2P
Action

+1 Action

When you buy this or play it, choose twice: +$1; or trash a card from your hand.

Quicksilver would've been my entry into the Potion contest. It seemed like a great card to me, and I would pick it up even if it was by itself due to it being a non-terminal trasher and a non-terminal Silver (or something inbetween), so it would continue being useful once it has flushed all the cruft out of my deck. It doesn't explicitly say (it also doesn't explicitly say otherwise), but you can make the same choice twice.

Elixir $2P
Action

+1 Action

You may discard a Potion from your hand. If you do, +$4. Otherwise, gain a Potion; put it into your hand.

Hello... don't you seem familiar? Maybe I should've named this one Vizier, which is also a title of nobility (like Baron) but I couldn't figure out a way to associate Potions with Viziers without it being weird. Oh well! Elixirs let you get Potions on demand, which can be quite useful if you don't immediately have a spare Potion to buy Potion cards (or in case you don't want to let your Alchemists go to discard). It's also less of a problem if you stock up on a bunch of Potions, since Elixir helps you convert them back into coin. Being non-terminal is probably a pretty big deal as well here (though the +Buy might've been more useful, considering the decisions Potion cards force on players).

Zeppelin $3P
Action

+2 Actions

Discard any number of Potion cards from your hand. +1 Card per Potion card discarded. If you discarded any Potion cards this way, +2 Cards.
______________________________

In games using this, during your Action phase, you may discard 2 Potions from your hand. If you do, gain a Zeppelin; put it into your hand.

Zeppelin doesn't draw cards by itself, but it's got great mileage (if you've got the right fuel!). Basically, the first Potion you discard will be worth 3 Cards; every Potion after the first will get you one card further. Similar to Elixir, Zeppelins make it less of a problem if you end up going a little Potion crazy; if you've got 2 Potions, discard them and put a Zeppelin directly into your hand! And you can do this as much as you like! Now that's service.

Homunculus P
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action

You may trash this immediately. If you do, +1 Card.
______________________________

When you buy this, +1 Buy.

Okay after seeing Rats today I'm going to figure that Homonculus is possibly undercosted here. It's a very simple cantrip, but you can choose to trash it immediately for a makeshift Laboratory. It also doesn't use up a Buy during your Buy phase, so even if you end up with a hand of CCCPE, you can still get a Homonculus and a Silver. All in all Homonculus doesn't do much but it's nice to have and isn't as strict a commitment as other Potion cards.

Liquid Gold $4P
Treasure

Worth $3P

Something similar showed up during the contest, but I'm going to conveniently ignore it. At its current cost, Liquid Gold is probably rather prohibitive, and with no other Potion cards in the supply it's probably not really worth it. Consider this though; when you draw Liquid Gold, all you need to play is a Copper to get more Liquid Gold. After a couple of turns, buying Liquid Gold will probably end up being pretty easy (maybe easier than buying Gold?).

Fountain of Youth $4P
Victory

Worth 1VP per 5 turns you’ve played this game.

Just from personal experience, my games tend to last around 18 to 20 turns, so $4P for around 4 or 5 VP at that point sounds fine. Maybe this is a little overcosted. Perfect for the games in which everyone's been beating each other up for awhile, or when everyone's been playing Ghost Ship each turn (that is, games that everyone hate). Extra turns from Outpost and Possession count towards VP for Fountains of Youth.

[Powerman]

Fountain of Youth $4P
Victory

Worth 1VP per 5 turns you’ve played this game.

Just from personal experience, my games tend to last around 18 to 20 turns, so $4P for around 4 or 5 VP at that point sounds fine. Maybe this is a little overcosted. Perfect for the games in which everyone's been beating each other up for awhile, or when everyone's been playing Ghost Ship each turn (that is, games that everyone hate). Extra turns from Outpost and Possession count towards VP for Fountains of Youth.

On this card... maybe it's just me, but when I play IRL, I don't count the number of turns in the game.  Easy online... but might be difficult IRL unless you add like a mat and counters or something to track.

[FishingVillage]

Fountain of Youth $4P
Victory

Worth 1VP per 5 turns you’ve played this game.

Just from personal experience, my games tend to last around 18 to 20 turns, so $4P for around 4 or 5 VP at that point sounds fine. Maybe this is a little overcosted. Perfect for the games in which everyone's been beating each other up for awhile, or when everyone's been playing Ghost Ship each turn (that is, games that everyone hate). Extra turns from Outpost and Possession count towards VP for Fountains of Youth.

On this card... maybe it's just me, but when I play IRL, I don't count the number of turns in the game.  Easy online... but might be difficult IRL unless you add like a mat and counters or something to track.

Hmm, I guess that's a good point. How about something like this:

Fountain of Youth $4P
Victory

Worth 1VP per 5 turn tokens on your turn mat.
---------------------------------------
In games using this, at the start of your turn, put a turn token on your turn mat.

[One Armed Man]

I would rather not introduce a mechanic I don't necessarily use every time I have a kingdom with a card to encourage players to stall out the game.

[eHalcyon]

Quicksilver -- not sure if I'd actually want this.  Remember that potion cost cards take longer to get.  If you just want to clear stuff from your deck, you want it earlier... but you won't see QS until your third reshuffle.  I'd grab it in cursing games, I think, but probably wouldn't to clear starting cards unless there are other potion cards I want.

Elixir -- somewhat difficult to evaluate.  Baron is useful because you already have 3 Estates to work with.  With Elixir, you're probably only going to have a single Potion, making it hard to pair them up.  You're probably going to end up with a Potion flood.  If you end up with two Elixirs in hand, you can use one to gain a Potion and the other to discard it... but then that just means they were each a Silver, and now you have one more junkish card in your deck.

It would be good if you actually want a lot of Potions... but I can't really think of a situation where that's the case.  Alchemy cards are very action-oriented.  The only time I'd buy more than one Potion is for Vineyards, I think.

Zeppelin -- again, it's really weird to promote a strategy that wants more Potions, because it doesn't really get you anywhere.  Having more than the normal amount of Potions isn't going to get you into Province territory.  If you have enough Potions that you're drawing multiples of them with Zeppelin regularly, what is that big draw from Zeppelin going to find?  More Potions?

Homunculus -- I quite like this one.  The on-buy +Buy effect has been kicking around the forums for a while, but usually in a context where it can be abused (i.e. on a cheap $2 or $1 action, where there's a real chance you could piledrive it in one turn).  Putting it on a $P cost card is very clever.  It's extremely unlikely it would get piledriven, but it really softens the blow when you draw that superfluous Potion.  If this had been submitted to the contest, I would have voted for it.

It might turn out that the one-shot Lab might not be balanced.  But the free Buy with a $P cost card is definitely something to remember!

Liquid Gold -- yeah, not worth it without other Potion cards.  If that Potion had been a Silver, the $4P could be a $6 instead, plus you have a Silver instead of a junky POtion!  The snowball effect you describe is too slow to be worth it.

Fount of Youth -- I've actually had the exact same idea, down to the number of turns and the use of tokens to track it!  The problem I figured was that you end up in a situation where the person with more of these time-based VP will not want to end the game.  Maybe it's not a huge issue, but it's there.

[zahlman]

Fount of Youth -- I've actually had the exact same idea, down to the number of turns and the use of tokens to track it!  The problem I figured was that you end up in a situation where the person with more of these time-based VP will not want to end the game.  Maybe it's not a huge issue, but it's there.

It only takes one player who wants to end the game, to ensure that the game ends. And even if one player has the whole stack, he's only averaging 2VP per turn from them. The fact that it jumps up every 5 turns instead of increasing smoothly, though, definitely has an impact on the strategy.

[Elixir] would be good if you actually want a lot of Potions... but I can't really think of a situation where that's the case.  Alchemy cards are very action-oriented.  The only time I'd buy more than one Potion is for Vineyards, I think.

So, there were other submissions that this would synergize with

I quite like this one.  The on-buy +Buy effect has been kicking around the forums for a while, but usually in a context where it can be abused (i.e. on a cheap $2 or $1 action, where there's a real chance you could piledrive it in one turn).  Putting it on a $P cost card is very clever.

You have no idea how many times I've wished it were on Vineyards I almost feel like this interferes with the intended balance of the P-cost mechanic, though.

[One Armed Man]

I think Elixir is a better concept than Liquid Gold. Since you want flexibility of Potion to coin, Elixir gives you a more interesting choice, especially if it is the only potion card.

[zahlman]

I think Elixir is a better concept than Liquid Gold. Since you want flexibility of Potion to coin, Elixir gives you a more interesting choice, especially if it is the only potion card.

I'm having difficulty imagining how you'd play it usefully as the only potion card. It certainly doesn't seem like it'd accelerate BM, considering you get $4 for 2 cards and you need to line them up.

[One Armed Man]

Elixir can gain 4-cost potion to hand, which helps trash for benefit, especially Mine, and to a lesser extent Remodeling. Another idea is to absolutely stuff your deck with these and (using the ability) potions. A Lab type, Warehouse-type, or Cartographer-type card helps smooth it out so that at least 2 Elixirs and 2 (Elixir or Potion) are in your hand each turn. It is a bit like a Hunting Party deck. If you only get 2 Elixirs, it is no big loss, you play them for $4. If you get 2 potions, it sucks but you buy another Elixir.

The effect of Elixir could be improved if the card gave +$1 either way and only gave $3 for the discard, but I am not sure about the balance there.

[zahlman]

Ahh, yes. Gaining to hand + non-terminal = allows for fun times. That might work, especially if you can grab a +Buy somewhere.

[FishingVillage]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I actually tried Quicksilver as is in a couple games with my friends, and uh... I think it's actually decent, maybe a little undercosted? It requires a Potion to buy, so you won't see it in hand until much later, but it can also trash on buy. Imagine if Remake could also trash on buy, and provided +1 Action? Okay, so it's not as far reaching as Remake is, but Quicksilver lets players thin out their decks pretty quickly and provides money once the trashing's done, that seems like it'd be worth it.

I guess Homonculus (and Quicksilver in my experience) can be worthwhile enough to get one Potion for. I haven't play tested Homonculus yet, but I'll put it out for testing next time my friends come around.

I do agree that Elixir and Zeppelin promote mass Potion strategies, which can be kind of strange. I always figured it'd be nice if, for a change of pace, having more than one or two Potions in your deck can be a good idea (pfft hahaha). Elixir at least seems like it can reach that goal pretty easily (and it has utility beyond being a virtual money source). Zeppelin unfortunately doesn't seem as flexible, though it does provide a consolation prize for stocking up on Potions.

Before I created the thread, Zeppelin worked like this:

Zeppelin $3P

+2 Actions

You may play any number of Potion cards from your hand. +2 Cards per Potion card played this way.
______________________________

In games using this, during your Action phase, you may discard 2 Potions from your hand. If you do, gain a Zeppelin; put it into your hand.

I nerfed the draw part on Zeppelin because I figured Potion for Laboratory was probably too strong. Sure, the current iteration trades 1 Potion for 1 Card (which is worse than Cellar so that's kind of funny), but it's similar to Stables for the first Potion at least.

Liquid Gold and Fountain of Youth seem like cards which won't get too far. I think there's room for a treasure card that can provide coin and potion simultaneously, but maybe Liquid Gold is not the way to do it. Fountain of Youth itself may promote a neverending game, but you want to prolong the game, you probably won't race for Provinces. And if you leave the Provinces for your opponent(s), that can be a grave miscalculation if you can't lock them down.