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[ashersky]

So I feel like I saw this somewhere, but in re-reading the whole thread, I couldn't find it.  I believe iOS and Android native apps are coming, but not on 8/16, correct?

Assuming so, if you join Goko, buy expansions, and play online via browser for now, my guess would be, when it is released, you could download the (presumably) free iOS/Android app, log in through it, and have access to the same cards you bought via broswer?  And if that is so, it would mean you always need an Internet connection to play via the future Dominion app?  Thinking about it more, maybe it's like the Ticket to Ride implementation where you unlock the cards via IAPs and they reside on your device so you can play offline--although then I don't know how that interacts with your previous purchase of DA pt. 1 (or Seaside, or whatever) via browser.  I just wonder if we're going to end up buying expansions twice if we start with the browser version and move to the native app.

For now, a required Internet connection is no change from what we have today, so nothing changes tomorrow on 8/16, but the idea of playing against Bots/adventure mode offline on the bus or train on my iPad was a hope for me someday.

[ednever]

So I feel like I saw this somewhere, but in re-reading the whole thread, I couldn't find it.  I believe iOS and Android native apps are coming, but not on 8/16, correct?

Assuming so, if you join Goko, buy expansions, and play online via browser for now, my guess would be, when it is released, you could download the (presumably) free iOS/Android app, log in through it, and have access to the same cards you bought via broswer?  And if that is so, it would mean you always need an Internet connection to play via the future Dominion app?  Thinking about it more, maybe it's like the Ticket to Ride implementation where you unlock the cards via IAPs and they reside on your device so you can play offline--although then I don't know how that interacts with your previous purchase of DA pt. 1 (or Seaside, or whatever) via browser.  I just wonder if we're going to end up buying expansions twice if we start with the browser version and move to the native app.

For now, a required Internet connection is no change from what we have today, so nothing changes tomorrow on 8/16, but the idea of playing against Bots/adventure mode offline on the bus or train on my iPad was a hope for me someday.

When I was in Chicago I specifically asked Jay about offline play. He said it wasn't on the roadmap as "soon enough people will always be online"

I gave him the example of airplanes, but I think he though it was an edge case.

That said, he's leaving most of these types of decisions to goko anyway.

But he's not pushing it. (unless I convinced him to change his mind. Which I doubt)

Ed

[Davio]

Well, it's written in Javascript, no?
So couldn't an overachieving script kiddy just rip it off their servers anyway?

It's been a while since I did actual web programming, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
And of course I don't condone this kind of behavior, but I'm just curious about the technical aspects.

[polonkus]

Well, it's written in Javascript, no?
So couldn't an overachieving script kiddy just rip it off their servers anyway?

It's been a while since I did actual web programming, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
And of course I don't condone this kind of behavior, but I'm just curious about the technical aspects.

Sadly, no.
Otherwise someone could just rip isotropic off its server and we wouldn't have any issues.

(While you could save the local UI javascript, it won't do anything without a server to communicate with)

[Beyond Awesome]

I wonder if this will launch midnight tonight, or if it will be sometime during Gen Con tomorrow.

[Donald X.]

Will the pro board really be true random?  I'm bad at Prosperity and Cornucopia, but great Promo and Intrigue - maybe I should only buy those?  I think someone else's already mentioned this ... perhaps it can't be solved?

My understanding is that the expansions of the two players are combined; if your opponent has Prosperity then the board may have Prosperity cards. You can only avoid Prosperity by avoiding people who bought it.

I don't think that gaming the system by limiting your expansions is solvable or needs solving. You can game the system by limiting who you play against; that might be worth addressing and possibly something can be done there.

[ftl]

For what its worth, I spent like three hours yesterday playing a random selection of bots, and my rating stayed pretty much constant, with the few losses canceling out the many wins. So that seems to be working.

[Insomniac]

Will the pro board really be true random?  I'm bad at Prosperity and Cornucopia, but great Promo and Intrigue - maybe I should only buy those?  I think someone else's already mentioned this ... perhaps it can't be solved?

My understanding is that the expansions of the two players are combined; if your opponent has Prosperity then the board may have Prosperity cards. You can only avoid Prosperity by avoiding people who bought it.

I don't think that gaming the system by limiting your expansions is solvable or needs solving. You can game the system by limiting who you play against; that might be worth addressing and possibly something can be done there.

I do not think this is true anymore. From my beta update

Of these changes, we'd like to point out that the base set cards will be availaible for free, while the other card sets will be available for purchase. You will, however, be able to play with any purchased cards with your friends as long as you set up the table.

emphasis mine

[Donald X.]

I do not think this is true anymore. From my beta update

Of these changes, we'd like to point out that the base set cards will be availaible for free, while the other card sets will be available for purchase. You will, however, be able to play with any purchased cards with your friends as long as you set up the table.

emphasis mine

I see! Sorry if that disappoints anyone.

So yes this does let you avoid Prosperity provided you host the game. That is probably the most extreme case, well also any new expansion will give you more losses for a while so you could be slow to get them to dodge that. But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you? Avoiding Prosperity does let you avoid Platinum/Colony, although personally I'd think high-ranked players are happy to see them.

[Captain_Frisk]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard? 

[Insomniac]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

Maybe but personally since I intend to own all the sets I can't see myself NOT hosting a game as I want to play with all the sets no questions asked. I liked the everyone brings their sets idea, but I mean if you own all the cards there is a strong incentive now to be the game hoster, which causes isolation among people that own all the sets :S

[Beyond Awesome]

I think for the pro leaderboard, the host should be random as should the kingdom setup. I also plan on buying all the sets, but I think making the host random stops people from gaming the system who avoid certain expansions.

[greatexpectations]

i could be wrong, but i think that Isotropic currently counts proposed games with cards randomly chosen from only a few sets for the leaderboard.  ie, a random set chosen from only seaside and prosperity cards. assuming this is actually the case, i don't see what the issue would be if it was this way on isotropic too. it would just be a continuation of what we are already used to.

[blueblimp]

i could be wrong, but i think that Isotropic currently counts proposed games with cards randomly chosen from only a few sets for the leaderboard.  ie, a random set chosen from only seaside and prosperity cards. assuming this is actually the case, i don't see what the issue would be if it was this way on isotropic too. it would just be a continuation of what we are already used to.

False. The only thing you can do on iso, while still being ranked, is bias the selection towards certain sets, but you'll still get cards from every set.

[greatexpectations]

False.

any source for this?

[blueblimp]

False.

any source for this?

There should be some old thread about it in the Isotropic Discussion forum. It was done to solve the Paralyzed problem.

[Donald X.]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

[Donald X.]

any source for this?

There should be some old thread about it in the Isotropic Discussion forum. It was done to solve the Paralyzed problem.

This is my memory also. In any case you sure don't want to pro-rank games where any cards were specifically chosen.

[WanderingWinder]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

People have shown significant skills playing, for example, with a much-higher-than-average percentage of platinum/colony boards.

[Captain_Frisk]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

Seaside specifically - not sure.  I'm sure someone will do something clever like only buy prosperity though.

[Insomniac]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

Seaside specifically - not sure.  I'm sure someone will do something clever like only buy prosperity though.

And Intruige? Masq+Goon+KC pin?

[Captain_Frisk]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

Seaside specifically - not sure.  I'm sure someone will do something clever like only buy prosperity though.

And Intruige? Masq+Goon+KC pin?

The rumor is that preselected kingdoms won't count toward pro leaderboard.  But a full random kingdom that includes colony / plat 50% of the time for me, and 25% of the time for you - is a big advantage to me - assuming we are both highly skilled.

[Donald X.]

People have shown significant skills playing, for example, with a much-higher-than-average percentage of platinum/colony boards.

Yes, I conceded that one.

Oh I see. So by not buying Seaside you increase the number of Platinum/Colony boards.

[Insomniac]

But like if you decide to not buy Seaside as a leaderboard gambit, what does that really get you?

It gets you to the top of the leaderboard?

I just don't see it! You dodge Sea Hag games where you open 5/2?

Seaside specifically - not sure.  I'm sure someone will do something clever like only buy prosperity though.

And Intruige? Masq+Goon+KC pin?

The rumor is that preselected kingdoms won't count toward pro leaderboard.  But a full random kingdom that includes colony / plat 50% of the time for me, and 25% of the time for you - is a big advantage to me - assuming we are both highly skilled.

Assuming additionally we are both equally skilled with colony plat, if you blow with colony/plat it won't help you at all But I get that. And what I meant is if you have both sets you are more likely to see the pin then if you have more sets or don't have the requisite sets and you could get super good at playing that pin.

A good solution here is to make the hoster the person whom has more sets or in the case of a tie random

[polonkus]

Assuming additionally we are both equally skilled with colony plat, if you blow with colony/plat it won't help you at all But I get that. And what I meant is if you have both sets you are more likely to see the pin then if you have more sets or don't have the requisite sets and you could get super good at playing that pin.

A good solution here is to make the hoster the person whom has more sets or in the case of a tie random

Or just make the expansions reasonably affordable, and require ownership of all sets for inclusion in the hardcore leaderboard.
Adds an incentive for purchase, and I doubt many serious players won't want to own all the sets after all.