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[werothegreat]

Anyone have a favorite dark ages card?

Hermit.

Thought it's also fun to say PILLAGE A VILLAGE! *shwack*

[Voltgloss]

Hovel/Overgrown Estate make Trade Route better as an opener - the OE is a perfect trash target, and the Hovel mechanic lets you buy the first Estate without damaging your deck.

Silk Roads are obviously made worse.

[Varsinor]

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

–1 for misinformation.

How is this misinformation?  That's the general rule I follow.  If I don't have anything over $5 in a kingdom, even if it's all Prosperity, I probably won't put in Platinums and Colonies.

Then that is your house rule, thus misinformation.
The real rule (from the rulebook of Prosperity) has been mentioned above.

[zahlman]

Baron has gotten shafted so hard.

Not to mention Scout!

At least it can still draw the Overgrown Estate. Baron can't discard any of these.

[sherwinpr]

Hmmm... my first thought was that BM+X is even stronger with these three cards in your starting deck. 2 Smithies + money is marginally faster thanks to Necropolis, and Hovel can be moved out of the way when you ghit that first province, so that the first province doesn't damage your deck.

This is significant to me, as it means that if BM+X is stronger, then a lot of the funky combos we've been talking about on other previews are going to be edged out, by sheer fact of relative lack of tempo.

Then there's the whole develop/remake thing. Now we've got $1 cards instead of $2 cards, any opening based on trash for benefit / remaking are going to be weaker.

So actually, I'm not convinced that these three cards instead of estate encourage engines. Instead, they up the power of Dominion's most basic winning strategy: BM+X.

It would be nice to see simulations, but I think it's quite a small boost.  You might take a while before you buy a victory point card on a turn where you have a Hovel, and if you only have two Smithies in your deck (as you probably should), it won't be that often that they'll line up with Necropolis.  You might get a single strong early turn.  But I'm still not sure if this means you should get your second smithy much earlier.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

And both are equal to pi.

Thanks for the previews!

Do we know / are we allowed to know if the word "Shelter" at the bottom of those cards actually means anything? My guess would be that there are other Dark Age cards that reference "Shelter" cards; if not, why have a special type at all?

I'm there for you.

If no cards referred to Shelters (something as yet unknown), then the point to the type would be, to give the cards a color - in Dominion, having a color indicates having a type (but not vice versa). And they have a color to make them go together, for separating out of your deck and stuff.

Speaking of colors, it's driving my OCD nuts that Necropolis has the red half on the bottom; while the other 2 have the red half on the top.

I imagine they tried it, but it looked better this way. But yeah, that was like my first reaction to seeing the 3 cards next to each other as well...

Hmmm... my first thought was that BM+X is even stronger with these three cards in your starting deck. 2 Smithies + money is marginally faster thanks to Necropolis, and Hovel can be moved out of the way when you ghit that first province, so that the first province doesn't damage your deck.

This is significant to me, as it means that if BM+X is stronger, then a lot of the funky combos we've been talking about on other previews are going to be edged out, by sheer fact of relative lack of tempo.

Then there's the whole develop/remake thing. Now we've got $1 cards instead of $2 cards, any opening based on trash for benefit / remaking are going to be weaker.

So actually, I'm not convinced that these three cards instead of estate encourage engines. Instead, they up the power of Dominion's most basic winning strategy: BM+X.

I don't know about this. I mean, part of what makes BM+X faster than some engines is that they have 3 points to start with. The engine player trashes their Estates, so they have to not only split the Provinces, but actually add and extra Duchy just to tie. And Necro also helps engine more than BM since you're more likely to draw it in a hand where you can use it.

[WanderingWinder]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

And both are equal to pi.

Nah. As we all know, pi is exactly 3

[HiveMindEmulator]

Seems a bit luck-based? I mean, if you open double terminal and pair them with Necro, and opponent doesn't.. And if those terminals are Swindler/Swindler.

I mean, opening with these are totally different story. Well, necropolis mostly.


But is sure going to make Puzzles fun 

Necro diminishes the probability of terminal collision (assuming neither terminal draws) in the first reshuffle hurting you by precisely 1/3.

3/10.

3/10 is precisely 1/3.

And both are equal to pi.

Nah. As we all know, pi is exactly 3

That's the reference I was going for but failed at the wording

[shMerker]

I still think it's possible that shelters give blanket protection against looters. It would make some thematic sense. If your kingdom consists of a ghost town, an abandoned mansion, and a straw hut, there's really nothing to loot.

It would make Hovel in particular make some more sense, not just because Hovel is weak, but also because it gives you a reason to maybe hold onto it, even through the endgame.

I bet at the very least there's one attack that says "Each other player [does some bad thing] or reveals a shelter." or something to that effect.

[jonts26]

I bet at the very least there's one attack that says "Each other player [does some bad thing] or reveals a shelter." or something to that affect.

The problem with that would be, what if you aren't using shelters? It's the same reason no prosperity cards specifically mention colony/plat. I think there's a decent chance no other card mentions them. Or if it does, it requires them to be used. I could be wrong, but the card would have to function well without shelters in the game too.

[werothegreat]

I still think it's possible that shelters give blanket protection against looters. It would make some thematic sense. If your kingdom consists of a ghost town, an abandoned mansion, and a straw hut, there's really nothing to loot.

It would make Hovel in particular make some more sense, not just because Hovel is weak, but also because it gives you a reason to maybe hold onto it, even through the endgame.

I bet at the very least there's one attack that says "Each other player [does some bad thing] or reveals a shelter." or something to that affect.

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

[Archetype]

I still think it's possible that shelters give blanket protection against looters. It would make some thematic sense. If your kingdom consists of a ghost town, an abandoned mansion, and a straw hut, there's really nothing to loot.

It would make Hovel in particular make some more sense, not just because Hovel is weak, but also because it gives you a reason to maybe hold onto it, even through the endgame.

I bet at the very least there's one attack that says "Each other player [does some bad thing] or reveals a shelter." or something to that affect.

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

But how could you defend an attack with a card you might not even be using to play with?

[jotheonah]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

[Archetype]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

[eHalcyon]

I still think it's possible that shelters give blanket protection against looters. It would make some thematic sense. If your kingdom consists of a ghost town, an abandoned mansion, and a straw hut, there's really nothing to loot.

It would make Hovel in particular make some more sense, not just because Hovel is weak, but also because it gives you a reason to maybe hold onto it, even through the endgame.

I bet at the very least there's one attack that says "Each other player [does some bad thing] or reveals a shelter." or something to that affect.

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

Apprentice's effect is fine without potions. If an Attack can be moated by Shelters, it needs to be strong enough to make it worthwhile despite inconsistency. Then it's too strong without Shelters!

Maybe an Apprentice-like effect where Shelters only have a marginal impact.

[GendoIkari]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

lol, in Magic, that would actually work. Not Dominion.

[GendoIkari]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

I think it's a terrible idea... can I also play Wishing Well, name "Market", and then reveal and draw Grand Market? Can I play Bag of Gold and gain a Fool's Gold on my deck?

[werothegreat]

I do like how with all these post-apocalyptic versions of older cards, they've gotten the original artists to come back.  Ruined Market has the same artist as Grand Market, Pillage has the same artist as Village, and Overgrown Estate has the same artist as the full-card art from the Estate in the Base Cards set.

[Kuildeous]

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

But how could you defend an attack with a card you might not even be using to play with?

How do you defend against an attack if there are no defense cards in the kingdom? You bend over and take it, just like if you don't have Shelters in play.

[jotheonah]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

I think it's a terrible idea... can I also play Wishing Well, name "Market", and then reveal and draw Grand Market? Can I play Bag of Gold and gain a Fool's Gold on my deck?

But Wishing Well says "Name a card" and so if you name Market, the card you draw either is or is the card "Market" - whether it's a Market is irrelevant. Baron says (IIRC) an Estate, not an Estate card. An Overgrown Estate is clearly an Estate.

[Archetype]

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

But how could you defend an attack with a card you might not even be using to play with?

How do you defend against an attack if there are no defense cards in the kingdom? You bend over and take it, just like if you don't have Shelters in play.

I'm talking about an Attack that specifically says "Reveal a Shelter card from your hand, if you don't ______"

That card would be dominant on a Board that disallows Shelters.

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

I think it's a terrible idea... can I also play Wishing Well, name "Market", and then reveal and draw Grand Market? Can I play Bag of Gold and gain a Fool's Gold on my deck?

But Wishing Well says "Name a card" and so if you name Market, the card you draw either is or is the card "Market" - whether it's a Market is irrelevant. Baron says (IIRC) an Estate, not an Estate card. An Overgrown Estate is clearly an Estate.

Donald is very careful with his wording 

[PenPen]

Man, this is definitely NOT your daddy's Dominion!

Huge amount of new elements to add into the game. This expansion is much more advanced than the other ones, I'd wish to know about the other cards sooner.

[werothegreat]

There is some precedent for this.  While Prosperity cards make no mention of Platinums/Colonies, Apprentice does specifically state what to do with Potions in a cost, which has absolutely no use unless there are Potion cards on the board, which Apprentice is not one.  So it's an expansion specific effect for a card that doesn't have an expansion specific type/cost.

But how could you defend an attack with a card you might not even be using to play with?

How do you defend against an attack if there are no defense cards in the kingdom? You bend over and take it, just like if you don't have Shelters in play.

I'm talking about an Attack that specifically says "Reveal a Shelter card from your hand, if you don't ______"

That card would be dominant on a Board that disallows Shelters.

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

I think it's a terrible idea... can I also play Wishing Well, name "Market", and then reveal and draw Grand Market? Can I play Bag of Gold and gain a Fool's Gold on my deck?

But Wishing Well says "Name a card" and so if you name Market, the card you draw either is or is the card "Market" - whether it's a Market is irrelevant. Baron says (IIRC) an Estate, not an Estate card. An Overgrown Estate is clearly an Estate.

Donald is very careful with his wording 

Baron says "Estate card."

[chwhite]

An Overgrown Estate is clearly an Estate.

Clearly it's not:

Baron doesn't know what to do with these.

[GendoIkari]

Couldn't you make the case that "Overgrown Estate" is an "Estate" and therefore should work with Baron?

That's actually a really good idea! I wonder if Donald make a ruling in the rulebook that allowed that.

But even if he did, the likelihood of drawing an Overgrown Estate and a Baron together is very thin.

I think it's a terrible idea... can I also play Wishing Well, name "Market", and then reveal and draw Grand Market? Can I play Bag of Gold and gain a Fool's Gold on my deck?

But Wishing Well says "Name a card" and so if you name Market, the card you draw either is or is the card "Market" - whether it's a Market is irrelevant. Baron says (IIRC) an Estate, not an Estate card. An Overgrown Estate is clearly an Estate.

I believe it has been long established that "a X" and "a X card" have the same meaning in Dominion. Some attacks say "gain a curse card" while others say "gain a curse." And again, Bag of Gold refers to "a Gold," not "a Gold card." Dominion has always used "X" to mean "a card named "X." Do you think if there's a new card called "Ruined Treasure Map" that Treasure Map would allow you to gain 4 Golds for trashing one?