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Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel  (Read 137584 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2012, 11:10:33 am »
+2

Harvest is pretty sweet now. Never would have guessed it could become a decent opener (shuffle dependent).

Harvest was always decent. 8)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2012, 11:12:47 am »
+2

Harvest is pretty sweet now. Never would have guessed it could become a decent opener (shuffle dependent).

Harvest was always decent. 8)
Harvest is still only mediocre. :)

rinkworks

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2012, 11:16:27 am »
+1

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2012, 11:17:22 am »
0

Harvest is pretty sweet now. Never would have guessed it could become a decent opener (shuffle dependent).

That's true. Opening Harvest on 5/2 might be pretty cool.

And be prepared for a rage-quit when someone draws on his third turn: Harvest, $2 buy, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, and Hovel.

Okay, maybe not that bad.


It's a bit like drawing Coppersmith, ($2 or $3 buy), 4 coppers, except if the $3 buy is a useful terminal, that's slightly better.  Also, considering the $2 or $3 may be have draw (like Courtyard), that Coppersmith opening is actually pretty solid.

Looking at only the first shuffle, I think the first Harvest turn with the Harvest/$2 (with shelters) opening will be about as good (probably a little weaker, especially given a $2 opening over a $3 opening) as the first Coppersmith turn with a Coppersmith opening (with Shelters).  Though at least you can play the $2 card then still play Harvest for a single coin.  This could buy you a silver if you opened Embargo, Duchess, Courtyard, etc (though you should probably Courtyard the Harvest) and can get you an estate replacement with many other openings that give you at least a +$1.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2012, 11:19:45 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.

Does anyone have a plausible explanation for this yet?  Is there some inherent ordering of which color goes on top when two types interact?  It might have just been better if Necropolis was all red (after all, Action-Reaction cards are solid blue, even though other card types can be Reactions, and Action-Duration cards are solid orange, although only actions can be Durations).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 11:24:00 am by sherwinpr »
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rinkworks

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2012, 11:20:40 am »
+9

Hovel becomes the second card which gives no bonus to an opponents tribute. And it's a dual type to boot.

At least now Tribute can flip over Hovel/Curse and get nothing twice.  With Curse/Curse, you have to settle for one nothing.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2012, 11:23:51 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.
I don't think I'm getting something about the colors in general.

Shelters appear to be orange, like durations.
Ruins appear to be brown.

But Shelters that are Action-Shelter are white/orange, whereas Ruins that are Action-Ruins are all-brown.

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
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werothegreat

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2012, 11:24:22 am »
+1

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

–1 for misinformation.

How is this misinformation?  That's the general rule I follow.  If I don't have anything over $5 in a kingdom, even if it's all Prosperity, I probably won't put in Platinums and Colonies.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2012, 11:25:54 am »
+1

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.
I don't think I'm getting something about the colors in general.

Shelters appear to be orange, like durations.
Ruins appear to be brown.

But Shelters that are Action-Shelter are white/orange, whereas Ruins that are Action-Ruins are all-brown.

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?

Shelter is a basic type, like Action or Victory.  Ruins is a secondary type, like Reaction or Duration.
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Insomniac

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2012, 11:27:11 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

The colours on dual types are top colour is alphabetically first. There hows that for your OCD
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jonts26

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2012, 11:28:18 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

The colours on dual types are top colour is alphabetically first. There hows that for your OCD

R comes before S ....
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Robz888

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2012, 11:28:39 am »
+20

Seems like a well-deserved nerf for Scout for me, after all the love it got from the rest of the set...

Nothing of the sort, my friend! Indeed, Scout continues to surpass other excellent cards like Goons and Ambassador. Do you want to launch a super powerful attack on your opponents, or do you want to re-order the next 4 cards in your deck? Easy choice!

If you foolishly think the purpose of Scout is to draw Green cards into your hand, then I see why you would think these cards hurt Scout. Ha, what idiocy. Oh, and by the way, Scout can still activate on Overgrown Estate. Baron can't do that. Scout > Baron

What about Necropolis? Necropolis is a great early engine component. Do you know what else is a great early Engine component? Scout. Play Scout, re-order your deck, and then you play Necropolis, and Necropolis doesn't mess up that order or anything. That's nice.

And Hovel... Hovel wants you to buy Victory cards! You might buy 3 or 4 Victory cards, just to really finish off that Hovel for good. Send a message, you know? And then Scout is your knight in shining army (on a Trusty Steed, maybe).

I can't wait to go out and King a Scout, so I can re-order the top of my deck not once, not twice, but thrice.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2012, 11:29:17 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.
I don't think I'm getting something about the colors in general.

Shelters appear to be orange, like durations.
Ruins appear to be brown.

But Shelters that are Action-Shelter are white/orange, whereas Ruins that are Action-Ruins are all-brown.

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?

I was wondering the same thing a few posts up.  I think solid colors are appropriate to use with Actions if they are not permissible as a card's only type.  Like it probably makes little sense for a card to be only a Duration or only a Ruin, and although a card could certainly be a Reaction only, I think we've heard that we'll never see a card like that (though Hovel comes awfully close).  All this points to Necropolis being a solid color card, since I doubt we'd ever get a Shelter only card, especially as I think these three are the only shelters (and what would a Shelter only card be?).

As an aside, I think Shelters are supposed to be Red, but when I first saw them I thought they were orange too.
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pst

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2012, 11:29:38 am »
0

Does anyone have a plausible explanation for this yet.

Donald X. has written that he doesn't "know why the red isn't always on the same half".

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/9796195#9796195
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Insomniac

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2012, 11:30:40 am »
0

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

The colours on dual types are top colour is alphabetically first. There hows that for your OCD

R comes before S ....

I hadn't looked Hovel when I said that. Uhm that would make my theory say hovel is the outcast!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2012, 11:32:09 am »
+1

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

–1 for misinformation.

How is this misinformation?  That's the general rule I follow.  If I don't have anything over $5 in a kingdom, even if it's all Prosperity, I probably won't put in Platinums and Colonies.
It's not THE rule.

Insomniac

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2012, 11:33:31 am »
0

Anyways to the cards

I see myself in some games not trashing necropolis that card seems like its always gonna have SOME value. In an engine deck Id want to wait until after the copper to say the least and in a BM deck well I dont need the +Actions unless Im super worried about my terminal witch colliding but I don't have trashing then.

Hovel and Overgrown estate seem legitamately bad except maybe in boards with Swindler, The first time I have an overgrown estate swindled into a poor house i'll be excited. I like that hovel gets rid of itself (hell you could even buy an estate and be back to square 1 now hows that scout look!?)
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Donald X.

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2012, 11:39:37 am »
+1

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
The Ruins cards are all actions. As with Duration cards, being half white wouldn't be telling you anything extra. I mean the game could have gone that way from the beginning, but it didn't.

The Shelters meanwhile are not all Actions. With two of them indicating the other type it seemed best if Necropolis also did.

Again I do not know why Necropolis doesn't have red on the same side as the others. You can't be consistent for every type, but these could have been consistent. You could ask Catrein, he did the layout.
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Warrior

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2012, 11:41:05 am »
0

Anyone have a favorite dark ages card?
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2012, 11:41:36 am »
+1

Anyone have a favorite dark ages card?

Donald has one.
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Warrior

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2012, 11:47:07 am »
0

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Asklepios

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2012, 11:59:44 am »
0

Hmmm... my first thought was that BM+X is even stronger with these three cards in your starting deck. 2 Smithies + money is marginally faster thanks to Necropolis, and Hovel can be moved out of the way when you ghit that first province, so that the first province doesn't damage your deck.

This is significant to me, as it means that if BM+X is stronger, then a lot of the funky combos we've been talking about on other previews are going to be edged out, by sheer fact of relative lack of tempo.

Then there's the whole develop/remake thing. Now we've got $1 cards instead of $2 cards, any opening based on trash for benefit / remaking are going to be weaker.

So actually, I'm not convinced that these three cards instead of estate encourage engines. Instead, they up the power of Dominion's most basic winning strategy: BM+X.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2012, 12:11:27 pm »
0

Are there any weird interactions that happen due to the fact that Hovel isn't a victory, treasure, action or curse? All I can think of is that Fortune Teller skips it.
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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2012, 12:20:56 pm »
+1

Anyone have a favorite dark ages card?
Sage.
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Voltaire

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Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2012, 12:21:57 pm »
0

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
The Ruins cards are all actions. As with Duration cards, being half white wouldn't be telling you anything extra. I mean the game could have gone that way from the beginning, but it didn't.

The Shelters meanwhile are not all Actions. With two of them indicating the other type it seemed best if Necropolis also did.

Again I do not know why Necropolis doesn't have red on the same side as the others. You can't be consistent for every type, but these could have been consistent. You could ask Catrein, he did the layout.
Thanks for the reply. That all makes sense (well, minus the whole order of the Necropolis red, but whatever) - close enough to perfection.  8)
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