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[werothegreat]

These cards are definitely going to change the landscape of openings and first shuffles. Double terminals will definitely be more common here. Plus, a 5/2 opening with no Actions on the board will often buy an Estate to trash the Hovel - no more wasted $2 turns on your first turn!

Somehow that still seems like a waste.  Unless you're opening Estate/Baron.

Which seems quite a bad idea with ONE estate in your deck.

Estate/Island, then?  Estate/Remake?  I dunno, I'd rather just pass.

[Kuildeous]

Proud to have given you your 1000th point of respect on this post.  Didn't even realize, until the flash of movement -- the appearance of another digit -- caught my eye when I hit the up-arrow.

I'm going to go downvote one of WW's posts so he can get 1000 again.

[Kuildeous]

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

I too was expecting Shelters to have some interaction with cards, especially the Looters. There are a lot of cards not yet previewed, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

I shouldn't complain, though. I like the idea of replacing the three Estates with cards of variety, just like I'm pleased to see something similar to Curses of variety.

I think I might take my base cards to GenCon. Then when I buy this expansion (because I know I'm going to), I can pull it out during any down time to play some Dark Ages. Maybe I'll finally be able to get a Governor card.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

[werothegreat]

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

What I'm freaking out about most is that the VP sign for Overgrown Estate is on the RED portion of the card, and not the GREEN.

[Schneau]

These cards are definitely going to change the landscape of openings and first shuffles. Double terminals will definitely be more common here. Plus, a 5/2 opening with no Actions on the board will often buy an Estate to trash the Hovel - no more wasted $2 turns on your first turn!

Somehow that still seems like a waste.  Unless you're opening Estate/Baron.

Well, it's a waste in a normal game. But here, you'd almost definitely prefer Estate to Hovel - more VP, costs more for TFB, etc. Unless you're planning on rushing VP early, I doubt it's worthwhile to hold onto Hovel if you can get rid of it early for an Estate with an otherwise worthless $2 hand.

[LastFootnote]

I was thinking an all Dark Ages game would be fun. It's good to see Donald has played it that way too. Is there any other expansion you would play by itself besides base?

All of the large expansions are quite enjoyable to play all by themselves. All-Alchemy and all-Cornucopia games are going to be a bit samey.

[Kuildeous]

Proud to have given you your 1000th point of respect on this post.  Didn't even realize, until the flash of movement -- the appearance of another digit -- caught my eye when I hit the up-arrow.

I'm going to go downvote one of WW's posts so he can get 1000 again.

Meh, too hard to find a recent post that I upvoted.

It's just easier to upvote one of WW's posts and then downvote it back to 1000.

So congrats on your 1000th respect again.

[bedlam]

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

Estates will still be in the game, just not in your starting hand. Don't leave them behind just yet.

And can someone remind me what the Platinum/Colony rule is? I've never played it IRL.

[sherwinpr]

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

Estates will still be in the game, just not in your starting hand. Don't leave them behind just yet.

And can someone remind me what the Platinum/Colony rule is? I've never played it IRL.

Probability of Colony/Platinum = 10% * (Number of Prosperity Cards in Game)

One way to implement it with the physical randomizer cards (mentioned in the rulebook) is to predesignate a position from the first to the tenth card dealt, say the first.  If the first card dealt is a Prosperity card, you use Colony/Platinum, otherwise you don't.

Assuming the rule is exactly analogous, we could designate the first card as a check for Colony/Platinum, and the tenth card as a check for Shelters (any two positions will do fine, just don't use the same unless you want the two to be mutually exclusive).

[Kuildeous]

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

Estates will still be in the game, just not in your starting hand. Don't leave them behind just yet.

And can someone remind me what the Platinum/Colony rule is? I've never played it IRL.

Ah yes, good point. So just Base game.

The general rule for Colony/Platinum (and Shelters) is that there is a chance proportionate to the number of Prosperity (and Dark Ages) cards are in the Kingdom.

So, if 4 of your kingdom cards are from Prosperity, there's a 40% chance that it'll be a Colony game. As far as I know, the Bane card would not contribute to this.

With Prosperity, the rule of thumb is that if the first card you flip over from the randomizer deck is from Prosperity, then you play with Colony. Presumably, you would do the same with DA. But, that method does not allow for you to play with both. Edit: sherwinpr's solution would work

I have a 10-sided die I keep in my box in case my phone's battery dies. I use it to determine Colony status. 

Of course, the main rule is: If you want to play with them, go for it.

[GendoIkari]

Oh, hey, guys, can we use this to stop all the speculation that ruined village will give +2 actions? K thanks.

So you think +1 action?

Yes, of course.
Edit: The 'of course' is just because of the way Donald said things - I don't think it would be so obvious what those 3 benefits would be if they didn't exactly parallel, for all the different vanilla bonuses in the game. And yeah, it's useless 90% of the time, but you know, he did say some were better than others.

Proud to have given you your 1000th point of respect on this post.  Didn't even realize, until the flash of movement -- the appearance of another digit -- caught my eye when I hit the up-arrow.

You upvoted THAT?

I'm not sure if it's just the higher volume of posters, or just that I'm posting more frequently (or the quality of my posts has increased?  I'm sure WW would disagree), but my respect has jumped about 150 points in just the past week, and I'm still trying to figure out which post is to blame...

Indeed; I've also gotten a way above average amount of respect during these previews. It's the Scout jokes.

[chwhite]

In general, yeah these Shelters are going to be better than Estates four you, yeah.  Also, more $1 cards! Necropolis in particular looks like it's really nice for making double-terminal openings more viable, the other two will be good to get out of the way but I can imagine preferring Estate to them once in awhile.  Shelters are going to really seriously hurt Remake, since getting Silver from your starting Estates is the reason it's so good; but on the other hand they will be yet another boost for Fairgrounds, even if 2/3 of them only actually benefit you as they leave your deck.

[GendoIkari]

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Look a few posts up.

[werothegreat]

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

Estates will still be in the game, just not in your starting hand. Don't leave them behind just yet.

And can someone remind me what the Platinum/Colony rule is? I've never played it IRL.

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

[jonts26]

Hovel becomes the second card which gives no bonus to an opponents tribute. And it's a dual type to boot.

[Cuzz]

Oh, hey, guys, can we use this to stop all the speculation that ruined village will give +2 actions? K thanks.

So you think +1 action?

Yes, of course.

If all the ruins cost $1, doesn't this break our sacred "no strictly superior cards" rule? Though you can't buy ruins and shelters as you do other cards. And it's not like every other card rule hasn't been broken so far, especially the ever-important "no card names with 15 or more letters" rule.

EDIT: Ruins cost $0. Still too early for me.

[Grujah]

Ruins cost 0.

[DStu]

If all the ruins cost $1, doesn't this break our sacred "no strictly superior cards" rule? Though you can't buy ruins and shelters as you do other cards. And it's not like every other card rule hasn't been broken so far, especially the ever-important "no card names with 15 or more letters" rule.

This already only existed for cards you can buy see Trusty Steed > Lab.

[LastFootnote]

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

–1 for misinformation.

[eHalcyon]

Crossposting from the Preview Game thread.

Shelters

Menagerie gets an unneeded boost.  Fairground is better too!  HoP is sort of better as well, in that Necropolis is one more unique playable card that you start with.  Ambassador kind of takes a hit, which is fine.  (Edit: and Donald actually addressed all those in his starting writeup, ha.)  Jester also gets a slight nerf, in that there are less starting VP to hit.

You might not want to trash Necropolis, huh.  Also, Ruined Village is probably going to be either "+1 Action" or "+2 Actions, discard X Cards", or +2 Actions with some other drawback.

Interestingly, you might opt not to pass Overgrown Estate using Masquerade -- trashing it yourself might be better, and if your opponent is the one who played Masq then you might not want to pass it because it might help him out when he trashes it!

Hovel is only better than Overgrown Estate when there isn't any trashing on the board, heh.  I expect that will be less likely with Dark Ages cards on the board.  Oh well!

OH.  HUNTING PARTY HATES THESE.

Nothing else interesting that I can think of.  Looking forward to seeing the full set!

[ehunt]

I'm glad to see hunting party get a nerf.

[Davio]

Okay, so this is supposed to be like Col/Plat in that you only play with it with a probability of N/10, but I wouldn't mind always playing with them! 

Unfortunately, it also introduces some extra early game variance.
We've accepted the 5/2 vs 4/3 start and we can even enforce same starts on Iso, but I could see how it would matter even more with Shelters.

Same start Shelters?

Also: OPEN MENAGERIE!!!

[mistergross]

Harvest is pretty sweet now. Never would have guessed it could become a decent opener (shuffle dependent).

[sherwinpr]

Okay, so this is supposed to be like Col/Plat in that you only play with it with a probability of N/10, but I wouldn't mind always playing with them! 

Unfortunately, it also introduces some extra early game variance.
We've accepted the 5/2 vs 4/3 start and we can even enforce same starts on Iso, but I could see how it would matter even more with Shelters.

Same start Shelters?

Also: OPEN MENAGERIE!!!

But the opening shelters hardly matter, unless you plan on buying a victory card in the first two turns on a non-5/2 opening, in which case you'd want Hovel to line up with 4 coppers for buying Island/(anything), and Hovel to line up with 3 coppers for buying Great Hall/($4 card) or Tunnel/($4 card), and I guess similar rules for rarer situations where you want to open with another card.

What will really matter quite a bit, however, is the result of the reshuffle after turn 2.

Though I guess you might as well fix the position of the opening shelters for the few cases where it does matter if you want to have identical starting hands anyway.

[Kuildeous]

Harvest is pretty sweet now. Never would have guessed it could become a decent opener (shuffle dependent).

That's true. Opening Harvest on 5/2 might be pretty cool.

And be prepared for a rage-quit when someone draws on his third turn: Harvest, $2 buy, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, and Hovel.

Okay, maybe not that bad.