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Author Topic: Dominion uh...misconceptions  (Read 19531 times)

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2012, 06:04:16 pm »
0

Someone say $1 card? Lol... hmm I wonder whether anyone has made a Guilds card :O
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"Chicken Chicken Chicken"-Doug Z
"Chicken Chicken Chicken"-Donald X
The cost to buy me is 5Copper. What's Your Cost?

Jedit

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2012, 06:18:37 pm »
+2

My absolute favorite BGG thread was in the Variants forum at a time shortly following, I think, the release of Intrigue.  Someone proposed the following fan card:

I havn't come up with a viable name for this card, but my brother came up with the idea.
It basically works as a remodel, but with the new card having a value of THREE coins more than the original card. This would mean that you could easily turn cost five cards into provinces, which would give it alot of power. My initial thoughts would be that it would cost six coin. Any thoughts?


The idea came under instant criticism:

Misses the point of the $7 gap.
Cost 5 cards are very plentiful; this turns those (including duchies) into provinces.
Cost 3 cards become gold.
There's no reason not to take this card, and would turn every game that it is in into a race for it.


The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

That Vaccarino boy, what a joker.
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engineer

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2012, 03:49:01 am »
+1

My absolute favorite BGG thread was in the Variants forum at a time shortly following, I think, the release of Intrigue.  Someone proposed the following fan card:

I havn't come up with a viable name for this card, but my brother came up with the idea.
It basically works as a remodel, but with the new card having a value of THREE coins more than the original card. This would mean that you could easily turn cost five cards into provinces, which would give it alot of power. My initial thoughts would be that it would cost six coin. Any thoughts?


The idea came under instant criticism:

Misses the point of the $7 gap.
Cost 5 cards are very plentiful; this turns those (including duchies) into provinces.
Cost 3 cards become gold.
There's no reason not to take this card, and would turn every game that it is in into a race for it.


The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

And then someone else got back to the original topic of the proposed fan card, denouncing it with style:

I've got an idea! Lets take some other cards and add 1 to their effect too! Dibs on Super-Laboratory. We need a Super-Witch that lets me draw 3 cards after giving everyone else two Super-Curses! And of course, I will fuel it all with my Super-Nobles, which give me 3 actions or 4 cards, as well as being worth 3 victory points.

Then Prosperity comes out.

People think they know so much.  And they use their false knowledge as a cudgel to beat down any perceived heretics.  The internet forum is the sophist's wet dream.  "Hey, if enough people agree with you loudly enough, then you must be right!" 

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.
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rinkworks

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2012, 09:26:57 am »
+7

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.

I'm surprised by how many unconventional things DA does that we never really thought Dominion would do.  You're right -- it's more of a mild surprise than a shock.  But it's hilarious how many DA cards are only subtly different from bad fan cards.  Just goes to show how delicate a procedure balancing Dominion cards is.
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engineer

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2012, 01:44:29 pm »
+1

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.

I'm surprised by how many unconventional things DA does that we never really thought Dominion would do.  You're right -- it's more of a mild surprise than a shock.  But it's hilarious how many DA cards are only subtly different from bad fan cards.  Just goes to show how delicate a procedure balancing Dominion cards is.

Yeah, and I think it also proves out Donald's stated concerns about additional expansions.  There are only so many things you can do within the confines of a single game. 

Since Dominion is pretty popular now, plenty of smart people have thought of ways to explore this gamespace with fan cards, and that means that there are fewer original ideas which fit within the game.  Unless Donald introduces a whole new mechanic, his cards will inevitably resemble some fan card ideas.
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cdnza

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2012, 06:24:27 am »
+2

what's the deal with how all of you monsters are pronouncing Duchy? how do you pronounce Duchess exactly? i never thought there was much room for mispronunciation with the card.
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Jive Junkie

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2012, 10:40:45 pm »
+7

Flashing back to an earlier, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed me:

Vault - So this card lets you turn all of your awesome cards into copper? Uh, good luck with that. +2 cards whoop-dee-doo. Witch does that AND it curses your enemies!

(it took me an embarrassing amount of games before I figured out that Vault will always get you Gold, and that Vault + Gold will always get you Province)


Loan - Paying 3 for a copper?!?! Are you serious?!?!

(I've now logged games where one Loan has killed 5 copper all by itself... still a junky card most of the time, though, I think)


Mine
- Wow this card is so awesome, I better use my extra Buy on Copper so it won't run out of targets!

(no comment)


Thief - OK, it's kinda mediocre on its own, but if I chain a bunch with Villages and Smithy...

(in my defense, I learned pretty quickly how horrible this idea was)


Nobles - OK, I'm no chump anymore, I know that Village + Smithy is kind of meaningless, but Nobles is a self-combo that gains you victory points!! Nobles all the way FTW!!

(learning moment: I ran out the 8 Nobles pile all by myself vs. an opponent who was already up to 6 Provinces & did the math - I'd need 2 Provinces and 3 Duchy to catch up, all on a single Buy per turn. I did not win that game)
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Tdog

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2012, 10:55:57 am »
+1

From an Amazon Cornucopia review:
On Remake: "Trash two cards and gain 2 cards costing exactly $1 more than each. Tried using it and it's rarely worthwhile. It'd be better if you could trash up to 2 cards I think. The conditions are too harsh and it costs 4."

On Jester: Another amazing card.

On Young Witch: Interesting mechanic but it has a weaker attack than a witch and you have to discard two cards after you gain +2 cards. (Editors note: Well, thats why it costs 4 not 5...)


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Jfrisch

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2012, 11:57:43 am »
0

some of those threads feel interestingly prescient
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/369716/ill-gotten-gains
IGG which gains curses and gives you money...
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brokoli

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2012, 11:06:05 am »
+1

From BGG, again :

Quote
Dominion: Alchemy
Focus: Sucking. Okay, sorry, no, the focus is Potions, which is an additional treasure card you need to buy cards.
Small expansion.
Simply put, the cards in this set are overpowered (Golem and Possession are two particularly heinous offenders). Yes, they can be more difficult to purchase, but they do too much compared to all the other cards in the game. I would say most people will warn you not to buy this, and I'd be among them. (We only play with the 2 cards from this set that don't require a Potion to purchase.)
Grade: D
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Archetype

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2012, 10:11:01 pm »
+1

Well, at least they got the grading right.
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jaybeez

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2012, 02:26:17 am »
0

The first time I played Dominion, I thought the only thing you'd ever want to trash is a Curse.  Not an uncommon misconception, and I think this may be in part because most people, like me, start with just the Base set--in which the only Curser is Witch and the only "pure" (i.e. non-TfB) trasher is Chapel.  The use of the TfB cards in the Base set is obvious, even if their optimal use isn't.  But what's Chapel for? you wonder when you first read it.  And then you see Witch, and you realize that the way to combat the unholy (Witch/Curse) is with the holy (Chapel/trashing).  Aha!  That's why there's trashing, so you can get rid of Curses.  It seems so intuitive when you realize it, except it's wrong.  Well, okay not totally wrong, but it does obfuscate Chapel's true power.

I wonder, was that a deliberate design decision?

And am I always alliterative?
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aaron0013

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Re: Dominion uh...misconceptions
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2012, 08:58:27 am »
0

Yes. Chapel was originally designed to confuse newbies. It was something that Donald X thought was funny for the first few games of his newest opponent. Then he would bring it all on at once....Chapel can trash.........COPPER!!!
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