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### AuthorTopic: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?  (Read 6504 times)

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#### Blooki

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##### Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« on: July 28, 2011, 06:13:45 pm »
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Anybody who has played live Dominion knows how tedious it can be to count Actions, Coin & Buys when you've got a lot of cards in play. So let's keep things simple. 3 puzzles, 3 things to count, 3 unique cards each! It's Blooki's Puzzle #3!

Our Hero is playing a solitaire Dominion game. She has only 3 cards in her play area, each with a different name.

Puzzle A - What 3 cards give her the most possible Actions and how many?

Puzzle B - What 3 cards give her the most possible Coins and how many?
For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to say no Philosopher's Stone.

Puzzle C - What 3 cards give her the most possible Buys and how many?

Hint: This puzzle was designed to be answered in order. Each solution should help you with the subsequent solution.

Acknowledgements
The puzzle has been solved by timchen. Congratulations!
Be sure to check out his solution for Part B below. It's way better than mine.

Deadlock39 has come up with a better solution for Part A below as well.

Here are my solutions:

Puzzle A
Hand: Trusty Steed/King's Court/Tribute/2 Mining Villages (1 Action)

Play King's Court + Tribute revealing 6 actions (-1 Action  +12 Actions / 12 Actions)
Play & trash 10 Mining Villages (-10 Actions  +20 Actions / 22 Actions)
Play Trusty Steed (-1 Action  +2 Actions / 23 Actions)

Cards in play: King's Court, Tribute, Trusty Steed

Puzzle B
Hand: Scrying Pool/4 Platinums (+\$20)

Play Scrying Pool & drawing 10 Mining Villages, 9 Embargoes, Counting House, Envoy & Venture
Play & trash 10 Mining Villages drawing 10 Banks (+\$20 +\$[Bank Value])
Play & trash 9 Embargoes (+\$18)
Play Envoy & draw 4 Platinums (+\$20)
Play Counting House & draw 59 Copper (+\$59)
Play all treasures (Venture pulls 8 Ventures & 1 Platinum +\$14)

Bank Value = 10*(9 Plats + 59 Cops + 9 Vents) + (arithmetic series 1-10 is 55) = 825

Grand total: \$971
Cards in play: Scrying Pool, Counting House, Envoy

Puzzle C

Draw 6 Contrabands
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 12:59:18 pm by Blooki »
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#### chwhite

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 06:38:58 pm »
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Puzzle A

If my math is right, 114 actions.

Using 10 King's Courts, 10 Cities, and 9 Villages (obviously any Village-type can substitute):
KC-KC-KC etc. gets you 19 slots with which to triple an action, which you use on your 19 Village-types for 6 actions each. 19 x 6 = 114 Actions.

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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 06:40:33 pm »
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Puzzle A

If my math is right, 108 actions.

Using 10 King's Courts, 10 Cities, and 9 Villages (obviously the last two can be substituted for any Village:
KC-KC-KC etc. gets you 19 slots with which to triple an action, which you use on your 19 Village-types for 6 actions each.  Voila, 108 Actions.

Ah, I think you are misunderstanding the puzzle. I'll clarify.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:26:51 pm by Blooki »
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#### chwhite

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 06:43:16 pm »
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Puzzle A

If my math is right, 108 actions.

Using 10 King's Courts, 10 Cities, and 9 Villages (obviously the last two can be substituted for any Village:
KC-KC-KC etc. gets you 19 slots with which to triple an action, which you use on your 19 Village-types for 6 actions each.  Voila, 108 Actions.

Ah, I think you misunderstanding the puzzle. I'll clarify.

Did you mean to ask there are only three cards in your play area, and they're each different?

ED: Apparently so!
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 06:54:05 pm »
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A: I think you are correct.

EDIT: thought of something better.

B: 10 MV+9 embargo+KC+Salvager+Vault, with opponent played KC*6 CR*10, your hand start with 9 horse traders, and you reveal them under opponents attack. You have 5+30+2+9-12-3=31 cards in hand when you play the vault, you salvage your colony in hand. Total=20+18+33+31=102 coins.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 06:57:32 pm by timchen »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 07:04:28 pm »
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A: I think you are correct.

EDIT: thought of something better.

B: 10 MV+9 embargo+KC+Salvager+Vault, with opponent played KC*6 CR*10, your hand start with 9 horse traders, and you reveal them under opponents attack. You have 5+30+2+9-12-3=31 cards in hand when you play the vault, you salvage your colony in hand. Total=20+18+33+31=102 coins.

Sorry, I changed it to a solitaire puzzle. Council Room was giving me headaches for part B.

Excellent job though finding the key cog to Part A.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:26:10 pm by Blooki »
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 07:42:32 pm »
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I have to give up on part B... your number is too absurd.

While I can improve my solution using counting house or scrying pool, it in no way approaches the number you posted.

Let me double check that the +coin is the number when you only have 3 cards in play. i.e., treasure in your hand does not count.

It appears for me to be impossible, as your number is so large that there must be some setup-size limited effect with a single play of the card (unless it trashes itself). As far as I can see, the above two cards are the only examples.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:46:37 pm by timchen »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 07:52:57 pm »
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I have to give up on part B... your number is too absurd.

While I can improve my solution using counting house or scrying pool, it in no way approaches the number you posted.

Let me double check that the +coin is the number when you only have 3 cards in play. i.e., treasure in your hand does not count.

It appears for me to be impossible, as your number is so large that there must be some setup-size limited effect with a single play of the card (unless it trashes itself). As far as I can see, the above two cards are the only examples.

You're right. My number is too absurd. I had a mistake. I played one too many Embargoes added an extra \$2! Will fix that now.

Here's a not very helpful hint: My solution requires 7 different cards to be in the supply and I play at least one copy of each.
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 08:25:43 pm »
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Ouch. I know your trick now. Clever.

Now I know part C. KC+CR+any +buy. Play 10 Contrabands and then buy Mint. 1+4+10-1=14 buys left!

EDIT: I guess I roughly have it. Scrying pool to pull 10 MV+9 Embargo+Adventurer+CH+Venture. Originally have 4 Platinums. 10 MVs draw 10 banks. Adventurer pull another 2 platinums. Venture pulls 8 Ventures+1 Platinum. Total=5*7+1*60+1*9+(7+60+9)*10+55+38=957! Oops, did I get it wrong somewhere?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:47:55 pm by timchen »
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#### chwhite

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 08:46:33 pm »
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Ouch. I know your trick now. Clever.

Now I know part C. KC+CR+any +buy. Play 10 Contrabands and then buy Mint. 1+4+10-1=14 buys left!

Still have no idea how part B can have such large number...

Perhaps it's the amount of money left after you bought that Mint and wiped away all those Platina?  Not sure how much that would help though.
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 08:50:08 pm »
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Ouch. I know your trick now. Clever.

Now I know part C. KC+CR+any +buy. Play 10 Contrabands and then buy Mint. 1+4+10-1=14 buys left!

Still have no idea how part B can have such large number...

Bingo! Man, you're good at these. I need to make them harder.

For some reason I was obsessed with using Black Market to buy the Mint, but I guess I don't need to. That frees up a whole card for parts B & C. I expect both answers to improve now.

And part B is ridiculous because of Bank.
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 08:57:41 pm »
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Bingo! Man, you're good at these. I need to make them harder.

And part B is ridiculous because of Bank.

IMHO it is much harder to make puzzles than solving them . Great job!

When I asked about the unplayed treasures, I have thought about Banks. Then I forgot about it when I thought about Mint. Then I recalled it, just before you give the hint. lol
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:00:25 pm by timchen »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 08:58:59 pm »
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Ouch. I know your trick now. Clever.

Now I know part C. KC+CR+any +buy. Play 10 Contrabands and then buy Mint. 1+4+10-1=14 buys left!

EDIT: I guess I roughly have it. Scrying pool to pull 10 MV+9 Embargo+Adventurer+CH+Venture. Originally have 4 Platinums. 10 MVs draw 10 banks. Adventurer pull another 2 platinums. Venture pulls 8 Ventures+1 Platinum. Total=5*7+1*60+1*9+(7+60+9)*10+55+38=957! Oops, did I get it wrong somewhere?

You need one less Copper to avoid 3 empty piles and you have to pay for your Mint. Also, there are better alternatives to Adventurer. And the arithmetic series for your Bank calculation is 45 rather than 55 I believe. But yeah, you basically got it!

Edit: My mistake 55 was correct.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:03:37 pm by Blooki »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 09:01:18 pm »
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IMHO it is much harder to make puzzles than solving them .

Well I essentially just come up with an idea and solve it as I go along. I think the hard part about making them is making them challenging, but not tedious. I don't like how Puzzle #1 turned out. I'm happy with #2 & #3. Had I not disallowed Philosopher's stones though I would've wanted to kill myself.

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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 09:35:12 pm »
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Ah. I am really stupid.

Just use CR to draw 4 Platinums. The piles running out are copper and MV. Choosing Copper or Venture to run out should be the same. So the answer is 5*9+1*60+1*9+10*(9+60+9)+55+38-5=982!?

EDIT:

and apparently Bank also runs out. lol. 982-10-1=971.
Indeed sometimes one cannot cure one's own stupidity.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:38:00 pm by timchen »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2011, 09:38:26 pm »
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Ah. I am really stupid.

Just use CR to draw 4 Platinums. The piles running out are copper and MV. Choosing Copper or Venture to run out should be the same. So the answer is 5*9+1*60+1*9+10*(9+60+9)+55+38-5=982!?

Personally, I'd rather have the last Bank than Copper.
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2011, 11:02:12 pm »
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Apparently, we all forgot that it is actually better to replace the embargos by treasures if possible.

So the better solution would beuse cellar as your third action!

Details:

setup: Bank, Embargo, MV, Cellar, Scrying Pool, Counting House, Mint, Young Witch, black market (with a full BM deck), Contraband, Royal Seal.
The BM deck with the extra CH, SP, etc, should have enough action cards, more than 29 gold+39 silver+8 plat+9 contraband+9 royal seal+1 Talisman+1 Loan+1 HoP+1 Quarry=98 cards.

Scrying to get 9* embrago, 9*mv, CH, cellar, 94*actions, Venture.
MV to draw 9* banks. cellar to draw the 98 treasures. Venture to draw 8*Venture+last Bank.
Total=(12*5+29*3+39*2+59*1+9*1+9*3+9*2+3+(12+29+39+59+9+9+4)*10+55+36)=2042!

Edit: Forgot Harem. Also the Mint...

The new total would be 2049.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 11:11:50 pm by timchen »
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2011, 11:39:47 pm »
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Apparently, we all forgot that it is actually better to replace the embargos by treasures if possible.

So the better solution would beuse cellar as your third action!

Details:

setup: Bank, Embargo, MV, Cellar, Scrying Pool, Counting House, Mint, Young Witch, black market (with a full BM deck), Contraband, Royal Seal.
The BM deck with the extra CH, SP, etc, should have enough action cards, more than 29 gold+39 silver+8 plat+9 contraband+9 royal seal+1 Talisman+1 Loan+1 HoP+1 Quarry=98 cards.

Scrying to get 9* embrago, 9*mv, CH, cellar, 94*actions, Venture.
MV to draw 9* banks. cellar to draw the 98 treasures. Venture to draw 8*Venture+last Bank.
Total=(12*5+29*3+39*2+59*1+9*1+9*3+9*2+3+(12+29+39+59+9+9+4)*10+55+36)=2042!

Edit: Forgot Harem. Also the Mint...

The new total would be 2049.

This is brilliant! Awesome!

Is your action/treasure balance in the kingdom correct?

In light of this new development, non-Mining Village actions are pretty much Scrying Pool/Cellar fodder to get as many treasures as possible. Is there any way to squeeze Harem or Stash into the kingdom and still draw them?

And to think, earlier you were calling my number absurd.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 11:58:45 pm by Blooki »
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#### timchen

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2011, 12:00:42 am »
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Quote
This is brilliant! Awesome!

I think you can finagle the Action/Treasure balance a bit more. I wouldn't play the Embargoes or Mining Villages at all. All you want is more treasure. It's more important to get as many treasures as possible. More Harems, Stashes (think you forgot them), Talismans, Loans and Quarries please!

Indeed. The answer seemed to be to swap out that two piles with Harems and Stashes and see how many actions can you buy. The treasure counts to 12+10+39+29+9+9+9+9+4-5=125... seems possible, with 50 actions from the supply and the BM deck.

Edit: Forgot potions. It becomes 140 treasures, which should still be manageable. The total \$\$ must be more than 2500.
It is funny how this absurd number grow to almost ten times the first number you posted!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 12:17:13 am by timchen »
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#### Kirian

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2011, 12:23:16 am »
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Timchen:  Maybe it's just me but because of Scrying Pool you need some Potions in there, so you might as well buy 15 of them and have another 150 coins with the Banks.

Edit:  Dammit, you wrote it while I was writing it!
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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2011, 10:21:37 am »
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I think I got more actions for puzzle A.

play Throne Room->King's Court->(Tribute, Mining Village) (-1 +12 +6)
play 9 more Mining Villages (-9 +18)

total of 26
Cards in play: Throne Room, King's Court, Tribute

#### Davio

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2011, 10:36:02 am »
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Would be fun to have a gazillion coins with 1 buy and still be needing to buy a Duchy because of the PPR.

Conversely, having a gazillion buys with 0 \$.

I have to add to these puzzles that bonuses gained from Durations are actually considered "cards in play" even though they don't count towards "cards played this turn". The SeaSide rulebook discusses how to play them properly. Basically, you put Duration cards on the turn you play them above your other cards, so you won't clean them up in the same turn. Your next turn, you pull them down towards your general play area and they are in play once more.
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#### Blooki

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##### Re: Blooki's Puzzle #3 - 3's a crowd? Who says?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2011, 12:56:10 pm »
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I think I got more actions for puzzle A.

play Throne Room->King's Court->(Tribute, Mining Village) (-1 +12 +6)
play 9 more Mining Villages (-9 +18)

total of 26
Cards in play: Throne Room, King's Court, Tribute

Nicely done.
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