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[O]

You were acting scummy as **** and you know that. OMGUSes everywhere, half-baked logic. I see you as incredibly calm and clearheaded under pressure, in MV.

but unvote anyways. and you really really dont want to wagon me ehunt.

[ehunt]

You were acting scummy as **** and you know that. OMGUSes everywhere, half-baked logic. I see you as incredibly calm and clearheaded under pressure, in MV.

but unvote anyways. and you really really dont want to wagon me ehunt.

Again, observe that O doesn't answer my arguments and instead asserts that things are obvious (I was scummy as **** and I know it). This is an extremely effective technique for dismissing arguments you can't answer in a game with this much distraction and noise, because people who are only skimming will believe that the extremeness in the tone is reflective of an extremeness in reality which isn't there. I would ask everyone to read my argument with O last night carefully, starting from the post where O votes for me. Ask yourself: why is O voting for ehunt? What evidence is he providing? Which of his arguments does he think are serious and which do he think are "of course" unserious? I claim you will not be able to formulate a coherent narrative of his play.

I have said several times that OMGUS is not a scumtell and I have not been rebutted. I think that OMGUS is actively a good thing. It is absolutely essential that a townie point out the scum on a misleading wagon against him. All a dead townie has is his voice. If I'm mislynched or NKed and haven't specifically pointed to who on my wagon is scum, then when it comes time to figure out who the scum is, misleading scum will do "statistical analysis" or cite old games or whatever they need to do and argue that the seventh vote or the voter with the least post count or the voter who was on the most or fewest other wagons is scummy, and not enough people will go back and check and notice, hey, O was the one voting ehunt without evidence and with contradictory posts. Now that I've made lots of noise over O, at least something good will come out of my impending nightkill. That is why if you are a townie you should always call out scummy arguments on you.

[O]

I acknowledge that I haven't gotten into gear in the same way this game. I at least think I've put my word in on every major fight, which is more than can be said for most people (but less than can be said for some). I just haven't been as into this game. I was more or less obsessed with MVI, it was all I thought about for weeks. This game I check several times daily, but it's just not the same level of obsession.

"I acknowledge that I've been mostly contentless, really, but I've been chiming in with what I thought was the requisite number of posts to not be scummy"

I'll get more and build a case for why I voted, but don't try and spin it that I'm trying to lynch a claimed doctor.

[O]

A lot of y'all say Axxle's softclaim means nothing; I disagree and moreover I think it's a pro-town move (given that he was the likeliest lynch) to make it now instead of later.

This is the type of contrarianism that can be used later to say "I wasn't buddying up" when infact you WERE buddying up to Axxle. It also supports earlier claims instead of later, which completely ignores the fact that many wagons dissipate quickly.

TINAS refusal to claim D1 while at L-1 gave us a win.

[ftl]

Ah, that makes sense for claim then, if ehunt's going to be away until deadline. That makes it the right play IMO.

Glad I didn't vote for ehunt, sad I couldn't put up better arguments so that he wouldn't have to claim. Will have to reread O.

[Eevee]

but unvote anyways. and you really really dont want to wagon me ehunt.

Whatcha doing O? 

[O]

I don't like the Axxle wagon at all. Robz, I think definitely you were in the right in your spat with Axxle, but you weren't like, so overwhelmingly in the right that anybody seeing it differently must be scum. Can you give more reasons for the vote?

Buddying, or so I thought

[O]

but unvote anyways. and you really really dont want to wagon me ehunt.

Whatcha doing O? 

softclaiming townie (possibly with, possibly without PR) 

[ehunt]

Trying to read through case on Insomniac before I go - the claim is that he said angrybirds was town then voted him shortly later in the same day. I can't find the post where he says angrybirds is town and I think the reference is wrong in whoever posted it with numbers - does anybody know off hand?

[Insomniac]

Trying to read through case on Insomniac before I go - the claim is that he said angrybirds was town then voted him shortly later in the same day. I can't find the post where he says angrybirds is town and I think the reference is wrong in whoever posted it with numbers - does anybody know off hand?

I said multiple times the robz v abirds fight looks like town on town, then when asked to vote I voted for abirds to try and bring him out of lurking but people don't like that I voted for someone I thought was town.

[Insomniac]

(because I'm not allowed to be wrong on my reads as well even though only scum can ever be sure of a read)

[O]

1. Insomniac - I did not totally follow the suggest-we-suit-claim incident, but as I believe I said at the time, I don't think Insomniac's behavior was anti-town (even though suit-claiming is bad). He's been pretty absent lately.

2. Voltgloss - strong town read. Really appreciate how he has kept the conversation alive, which is what's killing this town.

3. Captain_Frisk - scum read. Morgrim-bashes, which is a scumtell since Frisk knows how Morgrim acts. When I call him out on it, he argues sarcastically, waits a while, then unvotes, saying it was just an RVS vote. Now lurking. My vote remains on him.

4. shark_bait/ Grujah - Grujah wants it to be RVS all over again even though the game's been going on for a week. Light scum read.

5. Eevee - no read. Unlike eevee to post so little, but there's so much noise.

6. Robz888 - light town read. I've already explained my position on him elsewhere.

7. O - barely realize he's in this game, which gives me a light scum read. I also disagreed with his vote on Robz.

8. yuma - doing hard detective work, although I disagreed with his reads.

9. ftl - I already explained my position on the "fifth vote" issue. Neutral to town read.

10. Galzria - very town. Could be more helpful.

11. shraeye - very town.

12. angrybirds - I did not get a scum read on Robz off the Robz/angrybirds fight. I did get a town read off AB though.

13. sparky5856 - very town, although I confuse sparky and shraeye which is bad.

14. Morgrim7 - Morgrim being Morgrim. Wish he would post more.

15. Axxle - I believe I addressed the Axxlewagon above and there are no new developments.

16. ehunt - hi.

mostly contentless. "barely realize he's in the game" is contrived when it's you, not me, whose been lurky, too many "very towns".

also, FWIW everyone keep in mind that doctor is the go-to fakeclaim of choice.

[Axxle]

doctor is the go-to fakeclaim of choice.

Truth.  It's very hard to verify.

[ehunt]

doctor is the go-to fakeclaim of choice.

Truth.  It's very hard to verify.

Two quick responses:
1. note that including the card name is an important part of my claim (see "named townie" on mafiascum wiki for theory).
2. i agree that doctor is a good fakeclaim if there's one scumfaction. with multiple scumfactions it doesn't matter,  claimants are going to get nightkilled. a scumfaction will say, ok, either ehunt is telling the truth, or he's lying in which case he's on the other scumfaction. either way he's a good kill. i'm very unlikely to survive the night.

Quick response to O quoting my long post: I answered that argument a long time ago, when you made it the first time. My long post was the first post in many hours and I was trying to make conversation happen in a dead room, even though I didn't have much to say on most of the folks. The people I said were very town were people I felt were very town and I am not going to lie about my positions. I still feel that way about all of them except for Galzria, and even Galzria I still have a somewhat town read on.

Again, people, read O's fight with me last night in order, starting with where he votes me for saying "morgrim hunting hunting hunting." Don't let him mislead you, especially after I am gone. He is bringing up old arguments (and not quoting my responses to them) because he needs to create as much misinformation and noise as possible for when people go back over my case against him.

I think my O case is better than the Insomniac case, so not moving my vote. Will try to phone check. Adios for now.

[sparky5856]

A very quick skim after the last few pages reveals that I haven't even been put on the chopping block once after my recent lurkerish activities. I am quite baffled.

I'll read more thoroughly through the last few pages to see who deserves my final vote.

[Eevee]

fwiw i think its very freaking likely ehunt is the doctor he claims to be.

[shraeye]

I looked back through ehunt/O arguments and it seems like they were both doing the same thing.  Trying pretty hard on the fly to show why the other is more suspicious.  They both started making summaries I didn't agree with, and things kept escalating.  I'm still not taking back what I said about them needing to back down, wait a bit, and summarize their arguments.  Now we're just looking at 3 pages of mess, and it all feels town-on-town to me.  Catching someone in a lie when they haven't had a long time to prepare seems like a reasonable plan, but this just ended up being tons of noise that let other people hide in the background.  Now we've got under a day (right?) left to find a lynch candidate and everyone is busy sifting through that fight. 

I'm going to put out one more reminder that Eevee still looks very scummy to me, so that people don't forget this in Day 2.  Then I'll
vote: Insomniac
because I'm currently getting a scum read and a lynch needs to happen.

[jotheonah]

Vote Count
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7
Axxle (3): Insomniac, Galzria, Robz888
Eevee (1): Grujah
Grujah (1): sparky5856
ehunt (1): O
Insomniac (6): Axxle, angrybirds, ftl, Voltgloss, yuma, shraeye [L-3]
O (2): ehunt, Eevee


not voting (0):

with 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[Robz888]

What's our deadline?

[ftl]

L-3 is both the new L-1 and the new L-5! Ins lynch is wins lynch!

The deadline is in just under  24 hours, I think.

[O]

insomniac claim now tbh because waiting till you're at L-1 is just going to derp us into nolynch.

[Insomniac]

My claim won't be believed but I am a doctor. I was tryin to discern whether or not that makes eHunt a liar or not that's why I haven't revealed.

[ftl]

Umm.... wtf?!

This day 1 just got a whole lot weirder. Card/suit?

[O]

I believe you over ehunt 100%. Though certainly 2 doctors isn't impossible.

[O]

Eight - Ninja Doctor
Ten - Doctor

these are the only town doctors and are Wands. I doubt we have two Wands doctors that we managed to run wagons on D1.

vote: ehunt