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[O]

If it comes down to deadline I would definetly be willing to lynch Axxle I just find the case on him a bit flimsy, but there isn't much else to go on as it seems people have settled on either Axxle or Robz.

Softclaim: Once I claim you will no longer want to lynch me.

Oh boy. Unvote, I guess?

VOTE: ROBZ

Reasons: Uncharacteristic push on Angry (idgaf about the backing off after)
When a robz wagon developed, a lot of people oddly were keen to criticize the wagon. Some of this was probably town, but I'm pretty sure one of his scumbuddies is defending him.

And for the terrible meta here. "After I claim you will no longer want to lynch me" can be a VT claim, just with a witty deflection, and makes it 1000x easier if we allow scum to fakeclaim like this.. It should be treated as if Axxle didn't claim at all.

[Voltgloss]

If it comes down to deadline I would definetly be willing to lynch Axxle I just find the case on him a bit flimsy, but there isn't much else to go on as it seems people have settled on either Axxle or Robz.

Softclaim: Once I claim you will no longer want to lynch me.

Oh boy. Unvote, I guess?

Do we want to reward a vague softclaim like this with an unvote?  It's not in any way verifiable, nor (if Axxle is scum) does it at all restrict the universe of roles Axxle could fakeclaim if/when pressed. 

My concern:  if we accept this level of softclaim as a reason not to lynch Day 1, we will never lynch Mafia because they can ALL make this softclaim with no repercussions to themselves.  The only people we will successfully lynch Day 1 are Vanilla Townies who don't want to lie.

PPE:  I see Eevee and O are kinda beating me to the argument.  Posting anyway.
PPE2:  Grujah, what approach do you propose instead of L-1 claiming?

[Axxle]

Haven't we only ever lynched VT claims Day 1 anyway?

[Eevee]

Whoever we decide to lynch, we need to do it well enough in advance of deadline to allow time for any roleclaims.  Given the setup, there appears to be only about a 25% chance of each individual player being a VT.  So odds are whoever we push to L-1 is going to roleclaim and then we need time to deal with that.

I actually think we need to stop this "you need to claim at L-1 shenanigans" that f.ds is into.

And look, I am following everything past to point of my joining, don't see why it is a problem.

Surely you see why reading everything would be beneficial? Personally I always feel guilty for being so lazy with re-reading, and always admire the guys who make the effortto do that (Volt comes to mind as an example).

[Axxle]

PPE2:  Grujah, what approach do you propose instead of L-1 claiming?

You shouldn't L-1 claim.  You should only claim at L-1 if someone states the intent to hammer.

[shraeye]

And for the terrible meta here. "After I claim you will no longer want to lynch me" can be a VT claim, just with a witty deflection, and makes it 1000x easier if we allow scum to fakeclaim like this.. It should be treated as if Axxle didn't claim at all.

I agree completely with O here.  This wasn't a claim.

[Grujah]

PPE2:  Grujah, what approach do you propose instead of L-1 claiming?

L-1 claiming is bad, it is outing the power roles. Just take it. We need to get out of that mentality. Claim if it is beneficial for town to know, i.e. you found scum or it lightens an event.

[O]

PPE2:  Grujah, what approach do you propose instead of L-1 claiming?

L-1 claiming is bad, it is outing the power roles. Just take it. We need to get out of that mentality. Claim if it is beneficial for town to know, i.e. you found scum or it lightens an event.

Erm... Outing the PR's is better than killing the PRs.

[Robz888]

I don't know, I'm sort of cooling to an Axxle lynch entirely. I get the feeling that there are at least some scum just completely lurking (which is why its so quiet in here.) And a couple people--Morgrim, eevee, ehunt, Insomniac, oh and even abirds--are lurking really hardcore now.

[Grujah]

PPE2:  Grujah, what approach do you propose instead of L-1 claiming?

L-1 claiming is bad, it is outing the power roles. Just take it. We need to get out of that mentality. Claim if it is beneficial for town to know, i.e. you found scum or it lightens an event.

Erm... Outing the PR's is better than killing the PRs.

Expect that we do a quickmirslynch right after.  It is bad, you need to get yourself out of the lynch without claiming. Or at least not to wait till L-1 when it is late in the day already and it fucks as up.

[shraeye]

Everybody in this game has been quite a bit lurky, cept for Axxle.

This seems like a weird claim; I currently count the following people as definitely not lurking.
Yuma, Voltgloss, myself, Robz (not anymore after his busy start), ftl, Captain Frisk, Axxle
Some people are doing a bit better recently than the start
Eevee, Grujah (after taking over for sharkbait), Morgrim
Some people seem on and off
ehunt, galzria, insomniac, o, sparky
Some people seem like they just don't like posting much
angry, o

I haven't updated my post count in a while, so I'm not ready to say any of these people have been suspiciously lurking.  But if everyone had 50+ posts like Axxle, we would have more than 32 pages to sift through.  That would be too much.  Just because not everyone is flooding, doesn't mean we're all lurking.

I think I've posted more content than you TBH.

This is exactly what I was trying to avoid with the caveat that I am not using this as a list of people being suspicious, sorry if it felt like an attack.  I caught up to the current vote count now, and I amend your position to "people doing better now than the start" post-count-wise.

Content is a whole 'nother bag of bricks.  Undeniably we have both posted content, but when we talk about more content, we could be talking about "more useful" content which is totally subjective, more content based on numbers, or more content based on percentages, or more unique content.  The first category is too hard to make an assessment of and neither of us are kings of the other three categories.

[Insomniac]

How am I lurking hardcore? I've been posting quite a bit I just don't have a strong read this game because I'm pretty sure the robz/birds/axxle thing is a big town fight like timchen v galz in mvii

[shraeye]

Erm... Outing the PR's is better than killing the PRs.

This is probably true, but it would be more important like Grujah said to have avoided outing AND killing the PRs.  If you are a PR and a lynch looks like it's forming around you, don't wait until it finally gets to L-1 to say "oh noooo."  It hurts town if you don't give us time to recover and find a better target.

[Robz888]

How am I lurking hardcore? I've been posting quite a bit I just don't have a strong read this game because I'm pretty sure the robz/birds/axxle thing is a big town fight like timchen v galz in mvii

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have included you on that list. But that still leaves like 3 people.

[Eevee]

I really started making the effort to be more active after I realized how lurky I had been. Sad I'm still in the HC lurker category for Robz, got to change that.

For the record, I think ensuring we lynch someone is somewhat of a high priority today, so we might want to try finding some consensus here pretty soon already. 24 hours to deadline and no serious lynch candidate would not be good at all, and it might very well happen because of late claims or something if we dont get busy.

[shraeye]

How am I lurking hardcore? I've been posting quite a bit I just don't have a strong read this game because I'm pretty sure the robz/birds/axxle thing is a big town fight like timchen v galz in mvii

I wouldn't characterize you as lurking hardcore right now, but the robz/birds/axxle thing has blown over.  Other things are being discussed now.

[Insomniac]

How about I do this then.

Grujah why are you unwilling to read a measly 20 pages it's not like it'll take that long is it because your scum and you don't care as you already know which scum to not hunt?

[Galzria]

Here's my biggest thing on Axxle personally - And Robz, you should see this since you do read into meta's:

Town Axxle, while good at getting himself lynched, at least plays to a town wincon. He spends his time making posts filled with reasonable content, or providing links to... "Cop for Dummies", or "RVS and You! How not to suck!" It has nothing to do with votecount, but it's the complete lack of content in those posts. It's like he's trying to be present and be "town Axxle" except he isn't. I don't get the usual "Man, I'll feel like crap if Axxle is town" vibe because he's not the asset he usually is as town.... And I have to wonder why.

[Grujah]

Cuz it's boring.

I only read a very few games that I didn't play in (MV a bit, Ins's BM a bit). I also didn't read a big part of MIV D2 cuz I was lurking and didn't participate and it was just walls of texts.r

[O]

Cuz it's boring.

I only read a very few games that I didn't play in (MV a bit, Ins's BM a bit). I also didn't read a big part of MIV D2 cuz I was lurking and didn't participate and it was just walls of texts.r

Then make it interesting and vote for robz.

Seriously guys, I'm not going to make a clusterf**k massive post and try to derail all discussion to get all of your attention, but look at the reactions to a robzswagon and it's all pointing to a scum robz.

[Robz888]

Cuz it's boring.

I only read a very few games that I didn't play in (MV a bit, Ins's BM a bit). I also didn't read a big part of MIV D2 cuz I was lurking and didn't participate and it was just walls of texts.r

Then make it interesting and vote for robz.

Seriously guys, I'm not going to make a clusterf**k massive post and try to derail all discussion to get all of your attention, but look at the reactions to a robzswagon and it's all pointing to a scum robz.

I don't think I can argue against this anymore. O and Axxle (and somebody else? I don't remember) overreacted to me giving Abirds a very moderate grilling. Several people joined me in pointing out how overblown the whole thing was. Thus my wagon stalled.

[O]

Cuz it's boring.

I only read a very few games that I didn't play in (MV a bit, Ins's BM a bit). I also didn't read a big part of MIV D2 cuz I was lurking and didn't participate and it was just walls of texts.r

Then make it interesting and vote for robz.

Seriously guys, I'm not going to make a clusterf**k massive post and try to derail all discussion to get all of your attention, but look at the reactions to a robzswagon and it's all pointing to a scum robz.

I don't think I can argue against this anymore. O and Axxle (and somebody else? I don't remember) overreacted to me giving Abirds a very moderate grilling. Several people joined me in pointing out how overblown the whole thing was. Thus my wagon stalled.

And then they started scumhunting the wagon without a real reason to. Which is why I revoted for you.

[Robz888]

Cuz it's boring.

I only read a very few games that I didn't play in (MV a bit, Ins's BM a bit). I also didn't read a big part of MIV D2 cuz I was lurking and didn't participate and it was just walls of texts.r

Then make it interesting and vote for robz.

Seriously guys, I'm not going to make a clusterf**k massive post and try to derail all discussion to get all of your attention, but look at the reactions to a robzswagon and it's all pointing to a scum robz.

I don't think I can argue against this anymore. O and Axxle (and somebody else? I don't remember) overreacted to me giving Abirds a very moderate grilling. Several people joined me in pointing out how overblown the whole thing was. Thus my wagon stalled.

And then they started scumhunting the wagon without a real reason to. Which is why I revoted for you.

Who scumhunted the wagon? Who on the wagon got scumhunted? It seems to me that Axxle was the only one who got in trouble that way, and Axxle already had a wagon building against him before all this nonsense.

[Axxle]

I'm going to look over posts later looking for these specifically:

Someone who said they don't like either wagon and did not give an alternative to lynch.
Someone who hasn't weighed in on our wagons at all.

If someone can save me the trouble of searching that'd be great.  I think scum are among these.

[shraeye]

I'm going to look over posts later looking for these specifically:

Someone who said they don't like either wagon and did not give an alternative to lynch.
Someone who hasn't weighed in on our wagons at all.

If someone can save me the trouble of searching that'd be great.  I think scum are among these.

Please do, I'd be really interested in seeing your results.  In other news
Unvote Axxle.
I'm working on an enormous manifesto of a person-by-person analysis.  Long story way too short, Axxle is not the scummiest out there.