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[Axxle]

The main thing to glean from this is that Robz's choices of either staying the course or unvoting does not imply scuminess. Both can be called out as scummy actions from different people, and both scum and town are known to do both actions.

I'm probably biased on this because I still have my scumread on Axxle, but does this act in a vaccuum (if it happened when Frisk, Robz, Axxle, angry all had neutral reads) cast any suspicion on Frisk or Axxle?  Like they're trying too hard to attach scumminess to natural actions and create suspicion around a character.  It's a catch-22 forcing Robz into scumminess for either choice. Would this be more or less suspicious by Frisk/Axxle if Robz currently was looking very towny or very scummy?

They both are valid.

Robz said he'd unvote immediately.  He did not and seemed to try to get other to vote for angrybirds (my scumtell).

After not unvoting for angrybirds immediately, Robz then backs off as soon as a lot of backlash occurs (CF's scumtell).

[Axxle]

Regardless I think all of this is less important than the continued unanswered 4-person accusations on Axxle.

How do you want me to respond? I haven't been that engaged, I haven't been providing much content.  I'll try to do better from now on.

[yuma]

@shraeye/sparky
Quoting makes posts messy so I am not going to quote your quotes of my quotes, etc....

In answering Volt's question, I pointed out that I found shraeye's vote of Insomniac--the style of it--the way he said (not exact quotes) "who know who I do find scummy??? Insomniac" w/o providing explanation there and then for why you did." I quoted sparky to say that while he pointed out that shraeye had in fact shown some disagreement prior to your vote, it wasn't enough to resolve my suspicion of you.

As for content:

you have had a couple of ginormous posts, these are mainly the ones I am referring to,

#248 is large, but at the end of it I am thinking so what?
1. you talk about insomniac with "probaby" "golly, gee whiz" "I'm paranoid of everbody"

2. then you start talking about ftl... I don't know what you have to say about ftl, lots of words, and I am left with "what?" you then move onto ehunt and galz (again what are you trying to say, other than put down words"

3. you talk about scumhunting and conclude with "those guys are my town reads, or will be, or mightnot if i can't tell whose sufficiently scared." they are your town reads? or they will be? or they won't be? Why even write this if you are so unsure?

4. then you talk about yourself and sparky in relation to voltgloss's vote about suitclaiming? and again conclude with "this is what I think, but then again, maybe it isn't"

5. then you say sparky and axxle are your main suspects... but don't hold me accountable because I am tired.


post #265 is better, I like the highlights because they help me understand what you think is important, but still lacking in the so what department

1. insomniac is clear for me, except he isn't

2. you don't like people voting for ftl !yea, content!

3. more content, yea! but you say something yourself about axxle that I will hold you up to "Maximum vagueness=maximum future flexibility"

4. you talk about your own conflicts regarding sparky 

so just from these two posts it seems that you do have content--as anyone playing this game should--but it is spread so thin that it is hard to take anything away from it.

vote: shraeye

With all of the voting toward lurkers--both in this game and in others--it seem to me that mafia members would be very aware of not lurking. shraeye seems to have an astute enough mind to recognize this and is doing everything to make sure (she/he?) isn't put into the lurker category. I don't buy all of the long, long posts as evidence of town, but perhaps instead is evidence of covering up being mafia.

The above quote is why I voted for you.

You seem to be trying very hard to make sure that you are visible, that you are playing, but not leading or exciting anybody, long and frequent posts with minimal content accomplish this.

[Morgrim7]

OK Robz is being jumpy. Once a wagon forms for him saying, "A little jumpy?" he unvotes to clear himself. Not that I am the best mafia player, but I do remember M2 where I was killed primarily for voting and then jumping off the wagon. Like Robz. I thought you would "only vote after you're completely sure"? Right? Vote: Robz

[Robz888]

OK Robz is being jumpy. Once a wagon forms for him saying, "A little jumpy?" he unvotes to clear himself. Not that I am the best mafia player, but I do remember M2 where I was killed primarily for voting and then jumping off the wagon. Like Robz. I thought you would "only vote after you're completely sure"? Right? Vote: Robz

... and you were town, remember?

How many votes is this against me? It's... a lot, I think.

I suppose I should have clarified when I voted for Abirds, I didn't suspect him, just wanted a reaction. Of course, if I said that, he wouldn't have needed to answer me at all. So I didn't. Really, I was trying to get more involved with the game, and answer Volt's call, which I thought was a good idea. Volt never said to vote for the person you suspect the most, just someone. I unvoted him to clarify that I didn't actually suspect him. It didn't really matter to me whether I unvoted or not, since it was the only vote on the guy, I'd gotten my answer, and it wasn't threatening. But it seemed to be confusing people, like I was going after this guy big time, so I unvoted to clarify that.

People vote and unvote for other people all the time, and often do so to people they don't think are scum, in order to learn something? We all know this, yes? I'm happy to continue to explain what happened with Abirds, but every time a new person votes for me, it's as if they haven't read anything I've said since, which is mildly frustrating.

On top of all of this, I am IRL extremely ill yesterday and today (right after my move to my new job, yay). I've been sleeping on and off all day. My point is that perhaps I'm not thinking/talking clearly as I imagine myself to be. But please don't hammer me before I get to speak, roleclaim, etc. I wasn't permitted any final words at all in RMM2.

[Morgrim7]

OK Robz is being jumpy. Once a wagon forms for him saying, "A little jumpy?" he unvotes to clear himself. Not that I am the best mafia player, but I do remember M2 where I was killed primarily for voting and then jumping off the wagon. Like Robz. I thought you would "only vote after you're completely sure"? Right? Vote: Robz

... and you were town, remember?

How many votes is this against me? It's... a lot, I think.

I suppose I should have clarified when I voted for Abirds, I didn't suspect him, just wanted a reaction. Of course, if I said that, he wouldn't have needed to answer me at all. So I didn't. Really, I was trying to get more involved with the game, and answer Volt's call, which I thought was a good idea. Volt never said to vote for the person you suspect the most, just someone. I unvoted him to clarify that I didn't actually suspect him. It didn't really matter to me whether I unvoted or not, since it was the only vote on the guy, I'd gotten my answer, and it wasn't threatening. But it seemed to be confusing people, like I was going after this guy big time, so I unvoted to clarify that.

People vote and unvote for other people all the time, and often do so to people they don't think are scum, in order to learn something? We all know this, yes? I'm happy to continue to explain what happened with Abirds, but every time a new person votes for me, it's as if they haven't read anything I've said since, which is mildly frustrating.

On top of all of this, I am IRL extremely ill yesterday and today (right after my move to my new job, yay). I've been sleeping on and off all day. My point is that perhaps I'm not thinking/talking clearly as I imagine myself to be. But please don't hammer me before I get to speak, roleclaim, etc. I wasn't permitted any final words at all in RMM2.

...I wasn't the best towine, though. And I know you to be a pretty good player.

You haven't answered the roleclaim thingy. I would have waited, and once the wagon got threatening, roleclaimed. What you did was a little jumpy.

[Voltgloss]

Robz is at L-3.

Well, was.  L-4 now.  As I'm moving my vote to the one person who's been in hardcore lurk mode ever since things started to get serious (and who doesn't have a fried computer as an excuse).

Vote: Insomniac 

[Insomniac]

@Volt I am lurking a bit, mostly over commited, I answered peoples questions to me and I don't find the Robz vs abird to be a fruitful argument right now, Robz used his vote to apply pressure and unvoted when he got a response, I don't see that different from what anybody else does.

[Voltgloss]

Who do you suspect, Ins?

[Insomniac]

I don't have a lot of suspects at the moment to be honest with you it goes back to my being bad at day 1. In MVI I got a bit better because I flailed around blatantly accusing people for no reason and then ended up with a conclusion (theorel) which was correct, but I wasn't super certain of it till day 2 and well, I was dead then and I don't particularily want to die here so I'm trying a bit more of my MIV style where I was quiet (also got killed night 1).

If I had to pick someone to be suspicious of it would be axxle since he makes a lot of content-less posts. Gets called out on it, comes back and says yea I do have contentless posts and then continues to make posts that aren't very contentfull. I also am quite suspicious of the people who are constantly drawing attention to the Robz/Abirds argument and those on Robz train, and well hey thats Axxle again.

[ftl]

Heh, I've been sort of in hardcore lurk mode, I've read everything but haven't formed any new suspicions. My vote on Robz is meh but I don't have a better place for it.

[Captain_Frisk]

Phone posting, but claiming badnes at day 1 is such a cop out.

[Voltgloss]

"Badnes?"

[Axxle]

"Badnes?"

Badness as in poor play I'm sure. 

Dunno if he's responding to me, insom, or ftl though.  Maybe all of us?

[Captain_Frisk]

"Badnes?"

Badness as in poor play I'm sure. 

Dunno if he's responding to me, insom, or ftl though.  Maybe all of us?

Insomniac

[cayvie]

Vote Count
Galzria (1): angrybirds
Insomniac (2): Morgrim7, Voltgloss
Captain_Frisk (1): ehunt
Robz888 (5): O, ftl, Captain_Frisk, Axxle, Morgrim7
Axxle (4): Eevee, shraeye, Galzria, sparky5856
shraeye (1): yuma

not voting (2): shark_bait, Insomniac

with 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[shraeye]

@yuma.  Posts #248 and #265 are related. you can choose to look at them seperately, but the first one was a drunk/tired stream of consciousness rant, and the other is me helping with the tl;dr aspect of the first.  I'm not asking to be held unaccountable for the thoughts in #248, those are all thoughts I had. 
Drunk post:
1. My suspicion of Insomniac has waned, enough so that I'd rather vote for other people.  I haven't completely cleared Insomniac, he still was confusingly incorrect about something that seemed clear to me.  For now, I'm chalking it up to actual mistake.
2. Regarding ftl, #248 and #265 say the same thing, so if one seems to have more content, it's because I wrote it in a more alert state of mind.
3. I'm trying to say that I suspect a towntell is that we look very scared of voting for the wrong person. (I say will be, since I haven't got around to actually applying it yet).  And then I say it mightnot be, because if everyone looks equally scared or feigns this scaredness, that will really reduce it's usefulness down to zero.
4/5. Then I systematically try to check sparky's scumminess and unfortunately mid-post I reverse my position and end up not suspecting him.  If you think I end up with Sparky as main suspect, you read this wrong.  I was saying that, just like sparky does, I suspect Axxle the most.  Reasons appeared in #265.

Remaining thoughts on your post #327:
"maximum vagueness=maximum flexibility" is a standard I hope you and others hold everyone to.  If somebody is scum, we should not them get away with that flexibility.  People should be as clear as they can with their thoughts.

You seem to be trying very hard to make sure that you are visible, that you are playing, but not leading or exciting anybody, long and frequent posts with minimal content accomplish this.

I am trying as hard as I can to make my thoughts visible.  That is because I think they are valuable and correct.  I wasn't the first on the Axxle train, but I'm ok with being the loudest there.

[shraeye]

@Axxle

Regardless I think all of this is less important than the continued unanswered 4-person accusations on Axxle.

How do you want me to respond? I haven't been that engaged, I haven't been providing much content.  I'll try to do better from now on.

One thing I want to know is why did the ftl miscount, and the Robz v. angrybirds look like more important issues than responding to suspicion put on you?
I'm not going to tell you the magic words that will clear my suspicion on you.  That would make any scum's job too easy.  I want you to acknowledge and respond as you will to accusations that have been put on you.  Look to #211, #236, #262, #267, #311.

Another question: When you were voting for Galz, you said that it was because he was "Overly wanting to appear doing pro-town things, without actually doing pro-town things."  If this is your scumtell, could you explain to me how it does not apply to your actions?

[Voltgloss]

If I had to pick someone to be suspicious of it would be axxle

And yet you don't vote him.  No confidence in your convictions?

Insom's response reads to me like scum wanting to push the Axxle wagon further but worried that casting the fifth vote will make him a lynch magnet in case Axxle flips town. 

I realize Insom's meta is "I suck at Day 1" but man, I don't think that's a meta we should encourage or accept.

[Galzria]

If I had to pick someone to be suspicious of it would be axxle

And yet you don't vote him.  No confidence in your convictions?

Insom's response reads to me like scum wanting to push the Axxle wagon further but worried that casting the fifth vote will make him a lynch magnet in case Axxle flips town. 

I realize Insom's meta is "I suck at Day 1" but man, I don't think that's a meta we should encourage or accept.

If Insomniac were scum, why would he be worried about casting the fifth vote in case Axxle flips town?  There would be no "in case" because scum Insomniac would know that Axxle was town in that situation.

Now, scum Volt, knowing both Insomniac and Axxle were town, might write "in case", because he knows that town Insomniac doesn't actually know the alignment of Axxle, so would be worried about casting that vote "in case he flips town".

All that is to say:

Vote: Voltgloss for scumslip.

[Voltgloss]

lolololol

If Insomniac were scum, why would he be worried about casting the fifth vote in case Axxle flips town?  There would be no "in case" because scum Insomniac would know that Axxle was town in that situation.

Galz, this game has a modconfirmed SK

Vote: Galzria

[Galzria]

Ahh, drat. unvote. I forgot which game this was. >.> There are likely two scumfactions, do that isn't as solid a tell.

Warning: Don't post when your mind is elsewhere.

[sparky5856]

lolololol

If Insomniac were scum, why would he be worried about casting the fifth vote in case Axxle flips town?  There would be no "in case" because scum Insomniac would know that Axxle was town in that situation.

Galz, this game has a modconfirmed SK

yeah.

If I had to pick someone to be suspicious of it would be axxle

And yet you don't vote him.  No confidence in your convictions?

Insom's response reads to me like scum wanting to push the Axxle wagon further but worried that casting the fifth vote will make him a lynch magnet in case Axxle flips town. 

I realize Insom's meta is "I suck at Day 1" but man, I don't think that's a meta we should encourage or accept.

That still doesn't answer this though. If Axxle were town, it would be good for the scum because, well, they survived the day. But it would be even better if a member from the other scum faction (or the SK himself) was lynched; this means (possibly) one less death during the night, which increases their chances of survival even further.

Lynching town when you're town yourself sucks much more though; you decrease your chances of survival because your side is dwindling. You could probably make a stronger argument for Insomniac not voting to lynch due to "lack of confidence" just in case someone was town, if Insomniac was town himself. But hey, it's an issue still worth clarifying by Insomniac.

[Axxle]

@Axxle

Regardless I think all of this is less important than the continued unanswered 4-person accusations on Axxle.

How do you want me to respond? I haven't been that engaged, I haven't been providing much content.  I'll try to do better from now on.

One thing I want to know is why did the ftl miscount, and the Robz v. angrybirds look like more important issues than responding to suspicion put on you?

I'm not a fan of self-meta, but I'll use it anyway.  This is how I play town.  I usually ignore suspicion against me.  If try to scumhunt anyway because, hey, if I get lynched then we have the opinion of a confirmed town out there now.  If I spent the whole day trying to defend myself, I wouldn't help the town at all if I get lynched.

I'm not going to tell you the magic words that will clear my suspicion on you.  That would make any scum's job too easy.  I want you to acknowledge and respond as you will to accusations that have been put on you.  Look to #211, #236, #262, #267, #311.

Sure, I'll look into those.

Another question: When you were voting for Galz, you said that it was because he was "Overly wanting to appear doing pro-town things, without actually doing pro-town things."  If this is your scumtell, could you explain to me how it does not apply to your actions?

I'll look back at Galz's posts previous to that accusation and tell you what I meant at the time.

Ahh, drat. unvote. I forgot which game this was. >.> There are likely two scumfactions, do that isn't as solid a tell.

Warning: Don't post when your mind is elsewhere.

There are likely 3 scumfactions (incl SK)

[Axxle]

Encounter cards are discarded.

Reborn's second encounter begins.

Lightning uses his power to gain a token.

Mite plays Wild Lightning drawing 3 cards from the Cosmic deck.

Reborn collects a ship from the warp.

Pacifist plays Wild Reborn drawing a card from the Cosmic deck.

Leaving a window for Zaps and other COs