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[Morgrim7]

Hmmm, the ftl argument seems to be getting pretty popular. considerable.
Robz, never ignore anyone. Especially not me.
Ya know what? Tell me if you guys ever wanna lynch C_F; I would be happy to contribute. For now, Vote: ftl.

[cayvie]

Vote Count 2.5

Captain_Frisk (3): Axxle, angrybirds, Galzria
Robz888 (2): Captain_Frisk, ftl
sparky5856 (3): yuma, Eevee, Grujah
ftl (1): Morgrim7

not voting (3): Robz888, Voltgloss, sparky5856

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Sept. 3 @5 p.m.

[angrybirds]

Hmmm, the ftl argument seems to be getting pretty popular. considerable.
Robz, never ignore anyone. Especially not me.
Ya know what? Tell me if you guys ever wanna lynch C_F; I would be happy to contribute. For now, Vote: ftl.

in your own words morgrim, what is the ftl argument?

[angrybirds]

I guess my difficulty with Day 1 yuma is that I am looking for his rationale for having been a part of ehunt's lynch - O's ultimate lynch-choice - and I'm not finding it.

Is yuma more suspicious than CF?  Going just by Day 1, I'd say it's close - but if you held a gun to my head at the end of Day 1 and demanded I pick one to lynch, it would have been CF for the tremendous lurking.  (Coupled incidentally with CF being active in other threads around that same time - I find his "goko made me lurk" excuse a bit weak.)  In order to judge between them now, I will have to review their Day 2 actions.

interesting that this was completely ignored. did anyone respond to it. I don't think I saw any

[Axxle]

I guess my difficulty with Day 1 yuma is that I am looking for his rationale for having been a part of ehunt's lynch - O's ultimate lynch-choice - and I'm not finding it.

Is yuma more suspicious than CF?  Going just by Day 1, I'd say it's close - but if you held a gun to my head at the end of Day 1 and demanded I pick one to lynch, it would have been CF for the tremendous lurking.  (Coupled incidentally with CF being active in other threads around that same time - I find his "goko made me lurk" excuse a bit weak.)  In order to judge between them now, I will have to review their Day 2 actions.

interesting that this was completely ignored. did anyone respond to it. I don't think I saw any

This sounds like a rhetorical question.

[Morgrim7]

-He was on many wagons. Like a lot.
-Was lurky, and when he posted, he wasnt helpful (D1)
-Never even responded to Grujah
wow, going through that made me feel odd...robz could be a good lynch

[yuma]

I guess my difficulty with Day 1 yuma is that I am looking for his rationale for having been a part of ehunt's lynch - O's ultimate lynch-choice - and I'm not finding it.

Is yuma more suspicious than CF?  Going just by Day 1, I'd say it's close - but if you held a gun to my head at the end of Day 1 and demanded I pick one to lynch, it would have been CF for the tremendous lurking.  (Coupled incidentally with CF being active in other threads around that same time - I find his "goko made me lurk" excuse a bit weak.)  In order to judge between them now, I will have to review their Day 2 actions.

interesting that this was completely ignored. did anyone respond to it. I don't think I saw any

I guess I had better respond to it at least...

I think the most pressing concern is that I voted for both insomniac and ehunt w/o very much explanation. This is true I did.

To be honest in looking back I am flummoxed about not having put down my rationale for voting ehunt. I feel like I did at one point and am wondering if I wrote it and never published it? But either way that is a poor excuse and I will be fully accountable for it.

I voted off ehunt when he claimed and then moved my vote to insomniac. I think my explanation here was justified, if not long because I was at work. I felt a vote on a-birds was reactionary and contradicted his read a short time before.

I voted off him when he claimed and then moved back to ehunt, who I still read scummy about--only the claim had changed that before--and continued to feel that the explanations that were being offered about insomniac's claim being better than ehunt's which I still believe to be true, despite the roles being reversed, however, as you point out I did not mention that in my post, because again I was at work--that time I wasn't even on break, just walking in the hallway trying to catch up and provide some input.

Is there anything else you would like me to directly respond to Volt?

[yuma]

So I know that a handful of us are heavily involved in the MVIII end of day 3 stages, but players not in that game--and even those that are--no comments for 16 hours? That is awesomely not pro-town.

[Voltgloss]

I've come to the conclusion that I am overcommitted forum-game-wise (taking RL into account), as my efforts to reread Day 1 last night wound with my falling asleep on the couch.  I am trying my level best to do better at that this evening.  I'm also going to bow out of semi-blitz mafia.

As it is, I see your response to my concerns yuma and acknowledge them.  To clarify, I don't recall finding your vote on Insomniac to be unexplained - it was your vote (and revote) on ehunt, as you noted.

I expect that the end of M-VIII's Day today, as well as BM-IV's possibly ending today in its entirety, will free people up to refocus here in time for Monday's lynch deadline.

[jotheonah]

Volt, you have no obligation to continue tertiary-modding/trolling in BMV if you don't want to.

[Voltgloss]

Volt, you have no obligation to continue tertiary-modding/trolling in BMV if you don't want to.

But that's so much fun!  (And not really much of a time commitment)

Also, I meant Morgrim's RMM-II instead of "BM-IV" in my last post.

[ftl]

So I know that a handful of us are heavily involved in the MVIII end of day 3 stages, but players not in that game--and even those that are--no comments for 16 hours? That is awesomely not pro-town.

I mean, I'm fine with either a Robz or C_F lynch. Prefer Robz. If I get pressured, and get to L-X, for some small X, I'll deal with that as it happens. I have nothing to add really.

I suggest that we all put down our votes and go from there, there's still a few nonvoters.

[Galzria]

So I know that a handful of us are heavily involved in the MVIII end of day 3 stages, but players not in that game--and even those that are--no comments for 16 hours? That is awesomely not pro-town.

I mean, I'm fine with either a Robz or C_F lynch. Prefer Robz. If I get pressured, and get to L-X, for some small X, I'll deal with that as it happens. I have nothing to add really.

I suggest that we all put down our votes and go from there, there's still a few nonvoters.

Well I'm on CF now. I would switch to Sparky, or you. Robz is a distant 4th for me today.

[Voltgloss]

I will definitely be voting tonight no matter how far (or not) I get with my Day 1 reread analysis.  Given the circumstances, I will swap my planned order around and evaluate sparky and ftl first. 

[Morgrim7]

When do you plan on lynching? I might not be here. I'll be gone all day today and some of tomorrow

[ftl]

We have a few days, but as always, getting to near-lynch will draw out a claim and we'll have to evaluate whether it's truthful or not and so on.

I'll reread sparky, I've already reread C_F and Robz so I don't need to redo that.

[ftl]

Not seeing the case on sparky, sry.

[ftl]

Well, it's true, he didn't mention O at all. He went after Insomniac.  OK, he could be O's scumbuddy.

[sparky5856]

Initial case on me was the hasty L-1 vote for C_F. Then yuma points out how I barely mentioned O in the 1st day and then mention I wanted him dead in the 2nd. Something I've noticed about yuma is that he acknowledges his flaws (such as, post #1256), saying "this is true and I'm fully accountable" and all that. I've been acting the same way about my thoughts on O; it was a mistake that I didn't offer as much of my thoughts as I could have on him.

If I was O's scumbuddy though, I wouldn't have acted the same way that I did in the beginning of this day, saying that I would probably target him if I was vig. I wouldn't have wanted him dead if he was my scumbuddy. I wouldn't set myself up for something obvious like that, unless my response was genuine which it was.

I believe I mentioned this before, but I played a few games of mafia over on other forums back in the day, and I was mafia more often than not by chance. First time ever being mafia, I was the last survivor and won. Because I ended up being mafia a lot I had to become a skilled mafia player in order to survive in most of those games. Lying seemed like too obvious of a scumtell for me. I don't like to lie. I hate liars IRL as well. My playstyle thus morphed into highly-analytic posts that remained hidden from suspicion most of the time, few and far in between. And I ended up playing like that as town too, since I got used to my playstyle as mafia. Although I'll say that when I'm town, I tend to be more interrogative with my posts, since I need to find out everything. But yeah, if I was WW I would have responded differently to Grujah's question #6. I might have considered putting "O?" with the question mark for uncertainty, along with a couple other candidates (speaking generally here), but not just "...yeah, probably O". Way too obvious of a WW giveaway. The mafia I played at other forums was more informal, this is real man's mafia here. (Bottom line, I'm not O's scumbuddy. I hate to spend time on defense but since most people are wondering I might as well provide my own feedback.)

But I completely understand that I'm one of the ones on the chopping block now, one of the major reasons being that we're running out of suspects and so I have to be considered eventually. My L-1 vote was my biggest mistake thus far, the spectator topic is probably yelling at me for my irrational thinking >__< And of course I wish that I hadn't made that one post, that's obvious, but things happen I suppose.

Anyways, I just wanted to provide a bit more info on me. Votes. I don't have a vote. I'll wait for Volt's analysis on ftl before I consider ftl, so that I can see if I can agree with Volt's reasoning or not. I'll be curious on the analysis on me of course. Did Grujah say why he voted me? Oh yeah something about suitclaiming or something, plus the O-scumbuddy possibility. Could you explain a bit more on your suitclaim argument Grujah so that I have a better idea? C_F seems more and more townie the more I look into him, especially considering that he questioned Grujah's vote on me. If he was, say, the SK, why would he care? Robz has some good arguments against him. Morgrim is blah blah Morgrim. Volt is over-committing to be helpful; that reads more town than scum. Who else is in this game. yuma I feel like I shouldn't go after because of OMGUS, there's no case on him now anyway; maybe on a later day. angrybirds and Galz are the ones I need to look into more along with ftl.

[Grujah]

Why is this dead?

Wanna lynch (from most to least): sparky, ftl, Frisk
Would lynch (from most scummy to least): yuma Robz
Wont lynch (again, least town to most): Voltgloss, Galzria, angrybirds, Morgrim, Axxle, Eevee, Grujah

[sparky5856]

Beats me. It's getting close to the deadline, like about 62 hours am I correct?

Here's my thoughts on Insomniac: his posts seem poorly constructed, as noticed by a few other people. Notice how he doesn't say what KIND of doctor he is, mafia or town. eHunt already claims to be town doctor. What other doctors are there!? So now, this can only mean one thing. It's either Insomniac or eHunt who's scum. They can't both be the town doctor. And in the second quote... maybe he hasn't forgotten the possibility of mafia doctors, because he knows there is one? I'm solid in my position that eHunt is innocent.

But wait. What the heck is a ninja doctor? I read on Mafia Scum that he's anti-town. Someone want to clarify on this position? It doesn't make sense. Insomniac's claiming of ninja doctor sounds desperate, like "oops I shouldn't have done that". And wasn't he against suit-claiming in the first place?

Seems scummy too.


Also, distancing is a big scumtell.

Just saw this, and looked up distancing on the wiki cause of my noob status. I can see your viewpoint, but I really did feel Insomniac was scum much more so than eHunt (and my boldness certainly shows in that particular snippet >_<), it's hard to be genuine in this game >_<. My experience when playing is that whenever someone did something town-tell-ish, chances were that a mafia player would very soon do that very same thing. That's just my experience, so I sound forceful in that quote there. Reading back though, that does sound like distancing (the boldness especially made it stand out) so I can understand your argument. I feel like defending myself is concentrating my efforts away from scumhunting, that's why I don't like to defend myself >_<. but I feel like it's necessary.

I may just be tired, but how could I be both Insomniac's and O's scumbuddy, when one is mafia and the other werewolf? Kinda an unfair justification I just noticed... eh I'll sleep now, anything questions you have for me Grujah I'll answer them, unless you've had enough and ultimately want to see me dead lol. I feel like I coulda been more help if I wasn't defending so much, but eh it was necessary .

[Eevee]

No one posting is bad bad bad, and I'm more guilty than most. Sorry town! I have some people over from the USA this week, they are leaving on sunday so if I make it to day 3, I'll have more time reread and post then. I've gotten weirdly little computer time the whole week, and today will be no different. I'll be on all of sunday though I hope, given their plane leaves in the morning.

Sparky still looks very scummy to me (guys, two obvtowns want him dead, might want to sheep if you have no original ideas! anyone opposed to sparky lynch, other than sparky?). His defense is basically just a whole bunch of WIFOM "I would do that and that if I was scum", it's impossible for us to know what you would and would not do so that's not very helpful. Often, when someone posts long defense posts like this, I'm able to get a town read from them and unvote. Not happening here.

Vote: sparky again just to prod others to join me. Lets get this game moving!

[Voltgloss]

...reading from the beginning, Part 3...

Eeeh, I think part of the reason for the delays is my knowing how long it took to gather together all of yuma's quotes and paste them into my last post.  Nobody seemed to care about that, so I'm not doing it again here.  Sorry all.  I just don't have the hours to spare.  :p

ftl's Day 1 posts!  Once we get past RVS, I see...

- #144 and #145: voting Galz "to get things going."  4th vote on Galz at the time (with O, abirds, and Axxle).
- #179: challenges Insom's explanation of his response re: suitclaiming
- #210: says he voted Galz to get a reaction
- #214: says he tends to write long posts when scum and short posts as town; reiterates interest in response from Insom
- #229 and #230: asks abirds to explain why he thinks Galz is scummy
- #237: unvotes to prevent the votes on Galz from reaching 5, in case abirds votes on him 
- #244: notes "there's no more wagon on galz and I still know nothing about him, got a town vibe of angrybirds though"
- #268: votes Axxle, joining wagon revved up by Eevee and shraeye
- #289: unvotes Axxle and votes Robz, saying he (and shark_bait and CF and O "all look scummier on reread")
- #335: says he's been in "hardcore lurk mode," his vote on Robz is "meh" but he doesn't have a better place for it
- #354: votes O out of nowhere
- #407: votes Axxle for a joke about Morgrim; unvotes at #417
- #419: "mafia among lurkers/nonvoters" (at the time he is a nonvoter)
- #451: votes Grujah, not joining Axxle wagon
- #556: reiterates townread on abirds
- #571: cites Goko, Dark Ages, and RMM2 as reasons why "I haven't contributed too much"; says O vote was because he seemed like scum O from M-V; says he'll "sheep Galz in the 'will vote for anybody' mentality"
- #575: says he doesn't have anything else to say
- #577: lists reads: ehunt neutral, prefers Insom lynch, surprised at no wagon on CF
- #591: votes Insom, preferring that to ehunt lynch, and following abirds and Axxle votes
- #596: questions O's reason for voting ehunt
- #716: agrees with Eevee he thinks Insom is scummier than ehunt (even after both doctor claims)
- #768: analyzing double-doctor debate, no solid conclusion, notes that ehunt is at L-1 and says he won't hammer him because not entirely sold on that wagon
- #876: notes that mutual-doctor-protection fails if two scumteams target same doc
- #882: notes that if both doctors survive day and one dies at night, town would "basically have to lynch the other and possibly waste a day doing that"
- #890: cites distrust of ehunt, Insom, and shraeye

Hmmm.  Well, up until around #577, I don't see very much real content from ftl at all.  He's joining wagons and casting votes for not very much reason other than to provoke reactions.  After #577 he's more directly engaged, giving his views on ehunt vs. Insom, weighing in on the double-doctor issues.  Preferring Insom's lynch to ehunt's lynch and questioning O's approach both tend to make him less likely mafia or WW.

Summary: Day 1 ftl reads like someone who wasn't very engaged in the game up until close to deadline, and then revved up at deadline - but also wasn't aligned with (or ignoring) the known scum parties.  Maybe a slight town read.  In any case, I see much less to raise suspicions than I do on rereading CF or yuma.   

So let's look at the other existing wagon: sparky.  His Day 1 posts that jumped out at me are...

- #146: questions Galzria's "interrogatory quintuple post"
- #156: cites "pro-town vibes about shraeye," noting his vote on Insom had support
- #176: math about number of nighttime deaths; challenges Insom's position on suitclaims
- #182: responds to shraeye re: nighttime death math
- #211: cites "longer posts = pro-town" theory; suspects Axxle, shark_bait, and Robz for lack of contribution; notes Galz's theory that scum look more like town suggests that Galz himself is suspicious
- #242: proposes going after a lurker or Morgim on Day 1, which is "Stab-In-The-Dark Day"
- #258: refers to himself twice as "on the chopping block" despite having no votes on him - I think responding to shraeye's having expressed suspicion of him in #248?  Tells shraeye that he (shraeye) i's posting while tired, cites his typos, instructs him to clarify when he "feel{s} more refreshed"
- #263: votes shark_bait for lurking
- #275: unvotes shark_bait after he announces need for replacement, votes onto Axxle bandwagon
- #285: debating Axxle vs. Robz after the "a little jumpy" exchange
- #318: supporting Robz's behavior re: abirds
- #321: notes Axxle and CF voted Robz for contradictory reasons
- #418: unvotes Axxle to promote discussion of yuma's suspicion of shraeye
- #526: dislikes both Robz and Axxle wagons, supports Axxle's softclaim, two paragraphs wondering how SK would play, votes Grujah for not rereading rest of thread
- #689: is surprised he wasn't suspected for lurking
- #747: rereads from beginning, long analysis ultimately concluding that ehunt is town, Insom scum (votes for him), and Eevee also scummy

Rereading sparky Day 1 has me scratching my head about the wagon on him now.  Is it primarily based on his "having a bad day" vote putting CF to L-1?  Because, looking at voting patterns and results of Day 1, I'm not seeing much reason to suspect him.  Certainly less reason to suspect him compared to CF or yuma. 

I still need to reread abirds and Morgrim.  In the meantime though, Vote: Captain_Frisk.  He's still my strongest scumread based on Day 1 behavior and results.

Eevee, Grujah:  as confirmed town and 99%-confirmed town respectively, help me understand your thinking:  what makes a sparky lynch better than a Frisk lynch?

[Captain_Frisk]

Hey guys - on v/la so my posting will be limited up to deadline.  Obviously I'm still in favor of RobZ.

Not sure I understand the sparky case either, although I obviously disagree with the rest of Volt's post.

[angrybirds]

Trying to bring myself up to date so ill make a list you all seem so fond of
will not vote for eevee, axxle, grujah (duh) me

don't think is mafia: neither the FTl case or the sparky case carry weight.i find it odd that so many confirmed town are on sparky.

Could be: yuma (the only thing here is his case on sparky) volt i need to go back and take a harder look at same fir galz

willing and am voting for: robz, thecaptain and morgrim

hopefully I will bring more to the table later this weekend