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Author Topic: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins  (Read 24754 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 12:17:47 pm »
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I think +1 action is still way too pointless.  In all but edge cases it is as useless as Curse or Estate.  It would just be a playable Confusion.  IMO +1 Card and +$1 are still reasonably comparable to +1 Buy.

So my guesses:

Ruined Village: +2 actions, discard a card.
Ruined Laboratory: +1 card.
Ruined Festival: +$1

Festival feels odd though.  Maybe Mine instead.

Also, I picked Lab because I always think of Smithy as a person, but the word could also mean the place itself so Smithy is probably better.  And yes, Smithy can refer to the person!

And I am going to make a wild guess and predict that the fifth card will be Ruined Shelter.
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blueblimp

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 12:28:04 pm »
+1

We saw the +Buy Ruined Market in yesterday's preview.  But what will the other four Ruins (+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, and unknown) be called?  Also, what will the unknown Ruin be?  Guess away!

Try to think of your own guesses before reading everyone else's.

Ruined Village: +2 actions
Ruined Smithy: +2 cards (not sure about this, it might be +1 card)
Ruined Festival: +$1
Ruined Workshop: Gain a card costing up to $2 (changed my mind from Ruined Chapel, since that'd be too strong)
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UltimaPenguin

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 09:22:26 pm »
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My guesses:

Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Library: +1 Card
Ruined Mine: +1 Coin
Ruined Chapel: Trash this

- For Ruined Village, I think +2 Action would be too "strong". I mean, yeah, its pretty bad, but having any action splitter at all can really enable certain strategies so I think would be too swingy in certain boards. Even consider how it interacts with cultist the only looter we've seen so far. Cultist can potentially draw a ton of cards, but without a splitter, any non-cultist actions it draws are dead. But with just one +2 action to start, you have the ability to play one or more of those cards.

- I think most people are in agreement that there will be a +1 Card and a +1 Coin. Personally, I think Library and Mine sound cooler thematically, and would allow for super cool art. I don't think a ruined smithy or even a laboratory would be as cool looking as a ruined library. But that's pretty subjective (i'm sure some will disagree at least wrt lab). Similarly, I can't think of anything else that would really fit that well for the +coin card aesthetically other than Mine, but again, pretty subjective.

- I think Ruined Chapel would be awesome aesthetically speaking, and Chapel is such a prominent base set card to boot. I think trashing itself would be cooler than trashing something else, while still keeping with the basic spirit of what Chapel is all about. Again, I kind of feel like even trashing 1 card is a little too good for a ruins card, especially given the context of Dark Ages (its presence in the game guarantees you've got major trashing targets and being able to trash anything can unlock on-trash abilities that may be inaccessible to players who got a different ruins) Also it seems too obvious based on Donald's post. Trashing itself is neat though. It literally does nothing, but if you've got a spare action you can at least self-clean it from your deck.
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dondon151

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 09:38:21 pm »
+1

Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
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Schneau

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2012, 09:49:34 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2012, 09:56:42 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.

This is basically what Confusion cards were, and those were scrapped.  But maybe they'll be mixed in with the rest anyway?  If they have something like this, I would definitely rule out a Ruined Village that only gave +1 action.  +1 action and nothing at all are too similar.
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UltimaPenguin

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2012, 10:11:50 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.

This is basically what Confusion cards were, and those were scrapped.  But maybe they'll be mixed in with the rest anyway?  If they have something like this, I would definitely rule out a Ruined Village that only gave +1 action.  +1 action and nothing at all are too similar.

Personally I think a +1 Action ruins is more likely, which would then probably rule out the ruined estate :) But In addition, I think it would be awkward with the coloring scheme. The other ruins are all brown, but one would be green? I don't think it would qualify for dual coloring, but if it did a brown-green mix would be even uglier IMO. I think any other non-action ruins would have the same problem of just looking out of place and kind of bad.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 10:12:52 pm by UltimaPenguin »
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dondon151

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2012, 10:17:07 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2012, 10:19:02 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

But what would it do?  +$0 is basically the same as +1 action.  A few minor differences (Bank, Conspirator) but largely the same.

A Contraband Copper without +Buy?  That would be hilarious and kind of plausible, I don't know... maybe not so thematic though.
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Tmwinand

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2012, 10:22:10 pm »
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It would be out every game with a looter, so it would always have value. Maybe that makes your suggestion more compelling. The +1 buy would be the same way- only ok on a select few boards, but still bad.
[/quote]


About shelters being out with looters:  I really hope not.  ~80 cards that only come out when at least 1 of three possible cards is in the supply? I'd rather have 7 new kingdom cards.
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aaron0013

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2012, 11:50:17 pm »
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Just a few simple guesses.....just because ruined market is very simple:

Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Council Room: +1 Card
Ruined Festival: +1 Coin (just because I can't picture a ruined Woodcutter or Chancellor:)

And the mystery one:

Ruined Gardens: -1 Victory point for every 10 cards in your deck

Haven't read everyone else's yet, but these made sense to me.
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Rhombus

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:39 am »
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There could afterall be multiple Ruined Markets but with different card attributes.  e.g. Ruined Market (+1 Buy), Ruined Market (+1 Card), etc.  Seems more fair for Ambassador interactions.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2012, 12:45:09 am »
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There could afterall be multiple Ruined Markets but with different card attributes.  e.g. Ruined Market (+1 Buy), Ruined Market (+1 Card), etc.  Seems more fair for Ambassador interactions.

Already addressed. They will have different names.
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wrathofmine

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2012, 08:58:22 am »
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I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

There are two people on the smithy card.. have you been calling it smithyies!?

A little off subject but for the "smithy" thing : what is funny is that in french the card is "forgeron" (= smith), if they had translated litterally it would have been... "Forge", it could have been problematic.
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Vaivraza

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2012, 11:16:37 am »
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+1 Buy (Ruined Market)
+1 Card (Ruined Smithy)
+1 Action (Ruined Laboratory/Ruined Village)
+1 Coin (Ruined Bank?)
+1 VP (Ruined Gardens)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2012, 01:25:39 pm »
+1

+1 VP (Ruined Gardens)

I think you mean "Estate".
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2012, 09:10:30 pm »
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I used to think that a "ruined chapel" (trash 1 card from your hand) was for sure the 5th ruin, especially given the trash theme of DA. But as we see more and more cards that have inbuilt TfB effects a ruined chapel would be too helpful. If you have a squire and a ruined chapel you're laughing, but if you had a bloody ruined market you're a tad upset.

The suprise 5th ruin remains a small mystery...
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2012, 09:13:08 pm »
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And the mystery one:

Ruined Gardens: -1 Victory point for every 10 cards in your deck

I don't buy it. All the other ruins (well the ones we think we know anyway) have small suitations in which they're better than nothing. A negative point card is always worse than nothing.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2012, 09:19:02 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

The theorised (and hinted at)

+$1

card is basically a ruined treasure. Its a copper as an action. You can't ruin a treasure any worse than that. Unless you have a $0 treasure. Which in the absence of mine/bank is effectively a blank card. But I suppose that's better than nothing. Probably just as useful as the +buy will be.

....

Actually a $0 treasure would be helpful for HoP and you could trash them when buying Mint or when playing Loan. Okay I take it back. Ruined treasure it totally plausible. It has as many positive interactions as the rest.
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ftl

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2012, 09:28:02 pm »
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Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2012, 09:44:28 pm »
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Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.

I like this one.

Also, it's just occured to me that Gardens is a very effective counter to Looter attacks. All of that junk doesn't bother you and the ruined market is actually <i>helpful</i>.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2012, 10:29:58 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

The theorised (and hinted at)

+$1

card is basically a ruined treasure. Its a copper as an action. You can't ruin a treasure any worse than that. Unless you have a $0 treasure. Which in the absence of mine/bank is effectively a blank card. But I suppose that's better than nothing. Probably just as useful as the +buy will be.

....

Actually a $0 treasure would be helpful for HoP and you could trash them when buying Mint or when playing Loan. Okay I take it back. Ruined treasure it totally plausible. It has as many positive interactions as the rest.

But, how do you ruin a treasure. I mean, I've tried scratching coins before, but let's say I have a quarter, and I scratch over it and then go and spend it at the store, it's still worth a quarter. I don't think ruined treasure makes much sense. But, an action worth $1 does make sense like a ruined Festival. Also, while we're at it, why would a looter spend so much time trying to destroy/ruin treasure. It seems so time consuming whereas pillaging a village and giving us a ruined village seems a much easier route to go.

Hmm, and Donald said we would see three cards that trigger spoils. I wonder if one of them will show us the Grand Market getting destroyed.

Oh, and I think that the Ruined Village will give +2 actions. I have two theories for this. One, I realize that Ruins are meant to be junk cards, but I feel they aren't meant to be total dud cards. So, +2 actions can sometimes be beneficial, and NV, Hamlet, and Squire show us that at $2 +2 actions has to do something extra. And, let's face it, how often do you want a Shanty Town that never ever draws a card? But, here is my second reason that I think Village will be +2 actions, what does Pillage do? It discards a card. What does Village do. It draws a card. So, I feel that when the Looters Pillage, they are also taking the card draw from Village. Apparently, they also found some spoils along the way.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:40:54 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2012, 10:41:56 pm »
+1

Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.

I like this one.

Also, it's just occured to me that Gardens is a very effective counter to Looter attacks. All of that junk doesn't bother you and the ruined market is actually <i>helpful</i>.

The crazy thing is in a 2P game, Ruined Market can show up 5 times! Or, it can show up 0 times. You never know what Ruins will show up or how many of them there will be.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2012, 11:08:54 pm »
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Oh, and I think that the Ruined Village will give +2 actions. I have two theories for this. One, I realize that Ruins are meant to be junk cards, but I feel they aren't meant to be total dud cards. So, +2 actions can sometimes be beneficial, and NV, Hamlet, and Squire show us that at $2 +2 actions has to do something extra. And, let's face it, how often do you want a Shanty Town that never ever draws a card? But, here is my second reason that I think Village will be +2 actions, what does Pillage do? It discards a card. What does Village do. It draws a card. So, I feel that when the Looters Pillage, they are also taking the card draw from Village. Apparently, they also found some spoils along the way.

I don't buy this sorry. The +1 cards makes things a little smoother but +2 actions is the whole point to a villlage. A just +2 actions card is fully functional. I'd buy that card if it was the only village, i'd spend a reasonable amount on it in some cases.

The only guaranteed ruin as it stands is +1 buy. The only times spending an entire action on +1 buy is justified is if there are heaps of cheap cards that you want lots of (a rare situation) or if your engine is ticking away very smoothly indeed. The main problem with a +2 actions card is the opportunity cost in taking a turn to buy it. If someone just gives one to you that'd be <i>awesome</i>.
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blueblimp

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2012, 11:47:45 pm »
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A draw engine usually can't run comfortably on a plain +2 actions card. (Pure Nobles, for example, is not great.) Vs, an already-strong engine is perfectly happy inserting a single +buy card, and you only need one to start doing Province+component or double-Province.
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