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Author Topic: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins  (Read 23084 times)

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sffc

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Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« on: August 08, 2012, 02:58:55 am »
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We saw the +Buy Ruined Market in yesterday's preview.  But what will the other four Ruins (+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, and unknown) be called?  Also, what will the unknown Ruin be?  Guess away!

Try to think of your own guesses before reading everyone else's.
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Davio

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 03:06:17 am »
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Ruined Village seems like a given, probably the +Action one.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 03:12:21 am »
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I'll make the obvious guess:

+1 action - ruined village
+1 card - ruined smithy
+1 coin - ruined ... umm... Festival

and the last one
trash one card from your hand - ruined chapel
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 03:17:17 am »
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We dont know the bonuses will be +1 whatever for sure, bit I think these are the names:

Card Drawer: Ruined Smithy
Actions: Ruined Village (duh)
Money: Ruined Mine
I think the mysterious last Ruins wil be a mini Workshop.
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engineer

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 03:39:49 am »
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I already made my guesses, so I'll just repeat them here:

+1 action: ruined village
+1 card: ruined laboratory
+$1: ruined house
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Varsinor

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 08:59:59 am »
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Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card
Ruined Bridge*: +$1
Ruined Workshop: Gain a card costing up to $2.

* I think it should be a building to be able to be ruined. Woodcutter and Chancellor from the base set are not buildings. The next best set it could be from is Intrigue I guess and the Bridge seems to be the best choice for a building that gives +$ from there to me.
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mborda

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 09:50:33 am »
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I have a feeling that in the middle of the Ruins... you could maybe find a Hidden Treasure...
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 09:54:09 am »
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I think ruined village might give +2 actions, because otherwise you would only event to play it to remove cards from your hand.
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ehunt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 10:00:05 am »
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my guesses (based on the premises that ruins should be buildings, not people, and that all ruins should be bad cards that are occasionally useful like ruined market).

ruined chapel, trash a card.

ruined laboratory, draw two cards (not + 1 action)

ruined village, +2 actions

ruined market

ruined mine, gain a copper, putting it into your hand. (or maybe +1)
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Kahryl

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 10:16:36 am »
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Ruined Village: +1 action
Ruined Smithy: +1 card
Ruined Mine: +$1
Starving Militia: Each other player discards down to 4 cards in hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 10:18:58 am »
+1

I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 10:19:51 am »
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Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card
Ruined Bridge*: +$1
Ruined Workshop: Gain a card costing up to $2.

* I think it should be a building to be able to be ruined. Woodcutter and Chancellor from the base set are not buildings. The next best set it could be from is Intrigue I guess and the Bridge seems to be the best choice for a building that gives +$ from there to me.

Is Smithy a building??
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 10:23:33 am »
+1

From another thread, with my predictions bolded:
Ruined Library: Draw until you have 5 cards in hand
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand
Ruined Mine: Trash a card. Gain a copper in hand
Ruined Council Room: +3 cards, each other player draws a card
Ruined Lab: +2 cards, discard a card
Ruined Throne Room: Play an action card twice, then trash it
Ruined Cellar: Same as cellar, but terminal
Ruined Village: +2 actions
Ruined Workshop: Gain a card that isn't an action or treasure costing up to 4. Put it on top of your deck
Ruined Festival: +2 actions, +1 buy, discard a treasure
Ruined Moat: +1 card. Reveal and discard to prevent an attack

Disgraced Bureaucrat: Gain 2 coppers, putting them on top of your deck. Each other player MAY put a card from their hand on top of their deck.
Disgraced Militia: Discard down to 3 cards in hand. +$2.
Disgraced Chancellor: Discard your hand, and put your deck in your discard pile. +$4
Disgraced Woodcutter: +$1
Disgraced Spy: +1 card, +1 action. Each other player reveals the top card of their deck and either keeps or discards it (their choice)
Disgraced Witch: Gain a ruins. Each other player gains a curse.
Disgraced Thief: Each other player may trash a treasure from their hand. You may gain any of the trashed treasures.
Disgraced Adventurer: Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a treasure card. Put the revealed treasure on top of your deck and discard the rest.
Disgraced Moneylender: Trash a treasure. +$1.

Ill conceived Remodel: Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing the same as the trashed card.
Ill conceived Feast: Trash this card. If you do, gain a card costing up to 5 and a ruins
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LastFootnote

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 10:26:11 am »
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I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 10:28:04 am »
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I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

I still like Library better than Smithy for Ruins though. Libraries are present in Kingdoms that are doing well; in the Dark Ages of a Kingdom, seems that Libraries would not be in function. Smithies would still be functioning fine.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 10:29:36 am by GendoIkari »
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Kahryl

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 10:29:34 am »
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I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

There are two people on the smithy card.. have you been calling it smithyies!?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 10:31:17 am by Kahryl »
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jmieden

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 10:33:30 am »
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My guess:

Ruined Smithy (or Lab): +2 cards
(reason: we have 2 cost cards that give +3 cards, put one back (Courtyard) and +2 cards with extra effects (Moat, Steward)
Even +2 cards seems like a substantial step down from what we have already and matching the value of a buy.

Ruined Village: +2 actions
(reason: we have 2 cost cards that give +2 actions, but always give extra things (Native Village, Crossroads for the first, Hamlet for a discard)

Ruined Festival or something: +2 coins
(reason: we have 2 cost cards that give +2 coins, but always provide an additional effect (Duchess, Embargo)

Ruined Market: +1 buy
(reason: we already know this one)

Ruined Chapel: Trash one card from your hand
No reason for this one, it's just a wild guess- Donald said we wouldn't figure it out. This one makes sense, so it's probably not right.

Edit: not Steward... I guess I have Squire on the brain :P
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GendoIkari

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2012, 10:34:23 am »
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I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

There are two people on the smithy card.. have you been calling it smithyies!?

I've been playing so much Isotropic, I don't remember what any of the cards actually look like! :)
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werothegreat

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2012, 11:06:19 am »
+1

All this talk of Ruined Smithies reminds me that I used to play Dominion with a Cantonese fellow.  His accent was rather thick, and he'd insist on pronouncing it "Smiffly."
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Varsinor

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2012, 11:19:53 am »
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(reason: we have 2 cost cards that give +2 coins, but always provide an additional effect (Duchess, Embargo)

The additional effect of Duchess is neutral though, and not usually an advantage for the guy playing it.

I am sure your predictions for Ruins which give +2 Cards or +$2 are off. Overall such a card wouldn't be something bad often enough, there are almost as many kingdoms where you'd voluntarily take that card for free (and benefit from it) as where you wouldn't. There were quite a few occasions where I have bought a Moat for 2 although there were no attack cards and quite a few occasions were I have gained or bought a Duchess although I couldn't expect to profit from its extra function more than my opponent. Also, you'd probably buy out those +2-Ruins in many Goons games.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2012, 12:02:58 pm »
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On second thoughts
+1 Buy is something that is sometimes useful, but usually not, and the card's as good as dead most of the time
This makes me think that the other ruins will be things like:
*"Draw until you have 4 cards in hand" (Ruined Library)
*"Trash a curse" (Ruined Chapel)
*"Gain a copper - put it on top of your deck" (Ruined Mine)
*"+2 actions, discard 2 cards" (Ruined Village)
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jmieden

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2012, 12:03:45 pm »
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The additional effect of Duchess is neutral though, and not usually an advantage for the guy playing it.

It's best extra effect imo is the "gain it with Duchy" thing. This makes it virtually a 0 in many cases. It's other effect can be beneficial to all players. You're probably right, and I could see the coin only being +1, but it didn't seem as useful as +1 buy.

Quote from: Varsinor
I am sure your predictions for Ruins which give +2 Cards or +$2 are off. Overall such a card wouldn't be something bad often enough, there are almost as many kingdoms where you'd voluntarily take that card for free (and benefit from it) as where you wouldn't. There were quite a few occasions where I have bought a Moat for 2 although there were no attack cards and quite a few occasions were I have gained or bought a Duchess although I couldn't expect to profit from its extra function more than my opponent. Also, you'd probably buy out those +2-Ruins in many Goons games.

I think you're right here, but I couldn't figure out a better way to do a drawer. I didn't think +1 Card made any sense. I kinda like the suggestion posited earlier about +2 Cards, discard one card by

Ruined Lab: +2 cards, discard a card


It might even be a Ruined Courtyard- +2 Cards, put one card back on your deck, although this may be more of a benefit for splitting terminals than a handicap for having to keep whatever card you put back in your deck cycle.

Maybe "+2 Cards, discard 1 treasure card, or reveal a hand with no treasure" or something.
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jmieden

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2012, 12:04:52 pm »
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*"Trash a curse" (Ruined Chapel)

Or maybe- Ruined Chapel: "Trash one curse or Ruins card."
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 12:08:40 pm »
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*"Trash a curse" (Ruined Chapel)

Or maybe- Ruined Chapel: "Trash one curse or Ruins card."

That will be very, very useful in almost every game with a looter.
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jmieden

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2012, 12:15:28 pm »
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*"Trash a curse" (Ruined Chapel)

Or maybe- Ruined Chapel: "Trash one curse or Ruins card."

That will be very, very useful in almost every game with a looter.

It would be out every game with a looter, so it would always have value. Maybe that makes your suggestion more compelling. The +1 buy would be the same way- only ok on a select few boards, but still bad.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 12:17:47 pm »
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I think +1 action is still way too pointless.  In all but edge cases it is as useless as Curse or Estate.  It would just be a playable Confusion.  IMO +1 Card and +$1 are still reasonably comparable to +1 Buy.

So my guesses:

Ruined Village: +2 actions, discard a card.
Ruined Laboratory: +1 card.
Ruined Festival: +$1

Festival feels odd though.  Maybe Mine instead.

Also, I picked Lab because I always think of Smithy as a person, but the word could also mean the place itself so Smithy is probably better.  And yes, Smithy can refer to the person!

And I am going to make a wild guess and predict that the fifth card will be Ruined Shelter.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 12:28:04 pm »
+1

We saw the +Buy Ruined Market in yesterday's preview.  But what will the other four Ruins (+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin, and unknown) be called?  Also, what will the unknown Ruin be?  Guess away!

Try to think of your own guesses before reading everyone else's.

Ruined Village: +2 actions
Ruined Smithy: +2 cards (not sure about this, it might be +1 card)
Ruined Festival: +$1
Ruined Workshop: Gain a card costing up to $2 (changed my mind from Ruined Chapel, since that'd be too strong)
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UltimaPenguin

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 09:22:26 pm »
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My guesses:

Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Library: +1 Card
Ruined Mine: +1 Coin
Ruined Chapel: Trash this

- For Ruined Village, I think +2 Action would be too "strong". I mean, yeah, its pretty bad, but having any action splitter at all can really enable certain strategies so I think would be too swingy in certain boards. Even consider how it interacts with cultist the only looter we've seen so far. Cultist can potentially draw a ton of cards, but without a splitter, any non-cultist actions it draws are dead. But with just one +2 action to start, you have the ability to play one or more of those cards.

- I think most people are in agreement that there will be a +1 Card and a +1 Coin. Personally, I think Library and Mine sound cooler thematically, and would allow for super cool art. I don't think a ruined smithy or even a laboratory would be as cool looking as a ruined library. But that's pretty subjective (i'm sure some will disagree at least wrt lab). Similarly, I can't think of anything else that would really fit that well for the +coin card aesthetically other than Mine, but again, pretty subjective.

- I think Ruined Chapel would be awesome aesthetically speaking, and Chapel is such a prominent base set card to boot. I think trashing itself would be cooler than trashing something else, while still keeping with the basic spirit of what Chapel is all about. Again, I kind of feel like even trashing 1 card is a little too good for a ruins card, especially given the context of Dark Ages (its presence in the game guarantees you've got major trashing targets and being able to trash anything can unlock on-trash abilities that may be inaccessible to players who got a different ruins) Also it seems too obvious based on Donald's post. Trashing itself is neat though. It literally does nothing, but if you've got a spare action you can at least self-clean it from your deck.
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dondon151

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 09:38:21 pm »
+1

Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2012, 09:49:34 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2012, 09:56:42 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.

This is basically what Confusion cards were, and those were scrapped.  But maybe they'll be mixed in with the rest anyway?  If they have something like this, I would definitely rule out a Ruined Village that only gave +1 action.  +1 action and nothing at all are too similar.
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UltimaPenguin

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2012, 10:11:50 pm »
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Was it ever made clear that all of the Ruin cards were Actions?
No. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruined Estate: Victory that costs $0 and gives 0 VP.

This is basically what Confusion cards were, and those were scrapped.  But maybe they'll be mixed in with the rest anyway?  If they have something like this, I would definitely rule out a Ruined Village that only gave +1 action.  +1 action and nothing at all are too similar.

Personally I think a +1 Action ruins is more likely, which would then probably rule out the ruined estate :) But In addition, I think it would be awkward with the coloring scheme. The other ruins are all brown, but one would be green? I don't think it would qualify for dual coloring, but if it did a brown-green mix would be even uglier IMO. I think any other non-action ruins would have the same problem of just looking out of place and kind of bad.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 10:12:52 pm by UltimaPenguin »
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dondon151

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2012, 10:17:07 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2012, 10:19:02 pm »
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I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

But what would it do?  +$0 is basically the same as +1 action.  A few minor differences (Bank, Conspirator) but largely the same.

A Contraband Copper without +Buy?  That would be hilarious and kind of plausible, I don't know... maybe not so thematic though.
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Tmwinand

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2012, 10:22:10 pm »
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It would be out every game with a looter, so it would always have value. Maybe that makes your suggestion more compelling. The +1 buy would be the same way- only ok on a select few boards, but still bad.
[/quote]


About shelters being out with looters:  I really hope not.  ~80 cards that only come out when at least 1 of three possible cards is in the supply? I'd rather have 7 new kingdom cards.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2012, 11:50:17 pm »
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Just a few simple guesses.....just because ruined market is very simple:

Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Council Room: +1 Card
Ruined Festival: +1 Coin (just because I can't picture a ruined Woodcutter or Chancellor:)

And the mystery one:

Ruined Gardens: -1 Victory point for every 10 cards in your deck

Haven't read everyone else's yet, but these made sense to me.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:39 am »
0

There could afterall be multiple Ruined Markets but with different card attributes.  e.g. Ruined Market (+1 Buy), Ruined Market (+1 Card), etc.  Seems more fair for Ambassador interactions.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2012, 12:45:09 am »
0

There could afterall be multiple Ruined Markets but with different card attributes.  e.g. Ruined Market (+1 Buy), Ruined Market (+1 Card), etc.  Seems more fair for Ambassador interactions.

Already addressed. They will have different names.
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wrathofmine

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2012, 08:58:22 am »
0

I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

A smith is a person. A smithy is a location.

Interesting... I've been thinking of it wrong this entire time!

There are two people on the smithy card.. have you been calling it smithyies!?

A little off subject but for the "smithy" thing : what is funny is that in french the card is "forgeron" (= smith), if they had translated litterally it would have been... "Forge", it could have been problematic.
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Vaivraza

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2012, 11:16:37 am »
0

+1 Buy (Ruined Market)
+1 Card (Ruined Smithy)
+1 Action (Ruined Laboratory/Ruined Village)
+1 Coin (Ruined Bank?)
+1 VP (Ruined Gardens)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2012, 01:25:39 pm »
+1

+1 VP (Ruined Gardens)

I think you mean "Estate".
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2012, 09:10:30 pm »
0

I used to think that a "ruined chapel" (trash 1 card from your hand) was for sure the 5th ruin, especially given the trash theme of DA. But as we see more and more cards that have inbuilt TfB effects a ruined chapel would be too helpful. If you have a squire and a ruined chapel you're laughing, but if you had a bloody ruined market you're a tad upset.

The suprise 5th ruin remains a small mystery...
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2012, 09:13:08 pm »
0

And the mystery one:

Ruined Gardens: -1 Victory point for every 10 cards in your deck

I don't buy it. All the other ruins (well the ones we think we know anyway) have small suitations in which they're better than nothing. A negative point card is always worse than nothing.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2012, 09:19:02 pm »
0

I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

The theorised (and hinted at)

+$1

card is basically a ruined treasure. Its a copper as an action. You can't ruin a treasure any worse than that. Unless you have a $0 treasure. Which in the absence of mine/bank is effectively a blank card. But I suppose that's better than nothing. Probably just as useful as the +buy will be.

....

Actually a $0 treasure would be helpful for HoP and you could trash them when buying Mint or when playing Loan. Okay I take it back. Ruined treasure it totally plausible. It has as many positive interactions as the rest.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2012, 09:28:02 pm »
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Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2012, 09:44:28 pm »
0

Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.

I like this one.

Also, it's just occured to me that Gardens is a very effective counter to Looter attacks. All of that junk doesn't bother you and the ruined market is actually <i>helpful</i>.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2012, 10:29:58 pm »
0

I was actually implying at the existence of a ruined Treasure of some sort.

The theorised (and hinted at)

+$1

card is basically a ruined treasure. Its a copper as an action. You can't ruin a treasure any worse than that. Unless you have a $0 treasure. Which in the absence of mine/bank is effectively a blank card. But I suppose that's better than nothing. Probably just as useful as the +buy will be.

....

Actually a $0 treasure would be helpful for HoP and you could trash them when buying Mint or when playing Loan. Okay I take it back. Ruined treasure it totally plausible. It has as many positive interactions as the rest.

But, how do you ruin a treasure. I mean, I've tried scratching coins before, but let's say I have a quarter, and I scratch over it and then go and spend it at the store, it's still worth a quarter. I don't think ruined treasure makes much sense. But, an action worth $1 does make sense like a ruined Festival. Also, while we're at it, why would a looter spend so much time trying to destroy/ruin treasure. It seems so time consuming whereas pillaging a village and giving us a ruined village seems a much easier route to go.

Hmm, and Donald said we would see three cards that trigger spoils. I wonder if one of them will show us the Grand Market getting destroyed.

Oh, and I think that the Ruined Village will give +2 actions. I have two theories for this. One, I realize that Ruins are meant to be junk cards, but I feel they aren't meant to be total dud cards. So, +2 actions can sometimes be beneficial, and NV, Hamlet, and Squire show us that at $2 +2 actions has to do something extra. And, let's face it, how often do you want a Shanty Town that never ever draws a card? But, here is my second reason that I think Village will be +2 actions, what does Pillage do? It discards a card. What does Village do. It draws a card. So, I feel that when the Looters Pillage, they are also taking the card draw from Village. Apparently, they also found some spoils along the way.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:40:54 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2012, 10:41:56 pm »
+1

Yeah, another suggested option which I saw someone else post would be "Ruined Mine" which gains you a copper in hand. Usually, but not always, worse than a +$1.

I like this one.

Also, it's just occured to me that Gardens is a very effective counter to Looter attacks. All of that junk doesn't bother you and the ruined market is actually <i>helpful</i>.

The crazy thing is in a 2P game, Ruined Market can show up 5 times! Or, it can show up 0 times. You never know what Ruins will show up or how many of them there will be.
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Loschmidt

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2012, 11:08:54 pm »
0

Oh, and I think that the Ruined Village will give +2 actions. I have two theories for this. One, I realize that Ruins are meant to be junk cards, but I feel they aren't meant to be total dud cards. So, +2 actions can sometimes be beneficial, and NV, Hamlet, and Squire show us that at $2 +2 actions has to do something extra. And, let's face it, how often do you want a Shanty Town that never ever draws a card? But, here is my second reason that I think Village will be +2 actions, what does Pillage do? It discards a card. What does Village do. It draws a card. So, I feel that when the Looters Pillage, they are also taking the card draw from Village. Apparently, they also found some spoils along the way.

I don't buy this sorry. The +1 cards makes things a little smoother but +2 actions is the whole point to a villlage. A just +2 actions card is fully functional. I'd buy that card if it was the only village, i'd spend a reasonable amount on it in some cases.

The only guaranteed ruin as it stands is +1 buy. The only times spending an entire action on +1 buy is justified is if there are heaps of cheap cards that you want lots of (a rare situation) or if your engine is ticking away very smoothly indeed. The main problem with a +2 actions card is the opportunity cost in taking a turn to buy it. If someone just gives one to you that'd be <i>awesome</i>.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2012, 11:47:45 pm »
0

A draw engine usually can't run comfortably on a plain +2 actions card. (Pure Nobles, for example, is not great.) Vs, an already-strong engine is perfectly happy inserting a single +buy card, and you only need one to start doing Province+component or double-Province.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2012, 12:02:08 am »
0

Oh, and I think that the Ruined Village will give +2 actions. I have two theories for this. One, I realize that Ruins are meant to be junk cards, but I feel they aren't meant to be total dud cards. So, +2 actions can sometimes be beneficial, and NV, Hamlet, and Squire show us that at $2 +2 actions has to do something extra. And, let's face it, how often do you want a Shanty Town that never ever draws a card? But, here is my second reason that I think Village will be +2 actions, what does Pillage do? It discards a card. What does Village do. It draws a card. So, I feel that when the Looters Pillage, they are also taking the card draw from Village. Apparently, they also found some spoils along the way.

I don't buy this sorry. The +1 cards makes things a little smoother but +2 actions is the whole point to a villlage. A just +2 actions card is fully functional. I'd buy that card if it was the only village, i'd spend a reasonable amount on it in some cases.

The only guaranteed ruin as it stands is +1 buy. The only times spending an entire action on +1 buy is justified is if there are heaps of cheap cards that you want lots of (a rare situation) or if your engine is ticking away very smoothly indeed. The main problem with a +2 actions card is the opportunity cost in taking a turn to buy it. If someone just gives one to you that'd be <i>awesome</i>.

I agree. Most people think that the ruined smithy or council room or whatever will give +1 card, and you would almost never spend $2 on a card that gives just +2 cards.  Therefore I don't think it makes sense to say that ruined village will give +2 actions just because you would never spend $2 on a card that gives just +2 actions. (even though I probably would in some cases)
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2012, 12:37:17 am »
0

A draw engine usually can't run comfortably on a plain +2 actions card. (Pure Nobles, for example, is not great.) Vs, an already-strong engine is perfectly happy inserting a single +buy card, and you only need one to start doing Province+component or double-Province.

Pure Nobles isn't the best drawing engine but its perfectly functional. And if someone is just throwing +2 actions into your deck all you need to do is buy a few Library's (substitute other draw to X) and you're laughing. +2 actions is not an attack.

+1 action is however just horrible enough to be interesting. Its a conspirator activator, peddler cheapener, replaces itself with draw to X, you can TR it to make a really inefficent 2 card village. You're not going to buy it but maybe you can work around it. And I think thats the point of Ruins
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2012, 04:01:09 am »
0

For Ruined Village, I think +2 Action would be too "strong".

If it is, one possibility is:

Ruined Village: +1 Action. You may play a Ruins.
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CaptainNevada

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2012, 04:38:40 am »
+1

My prediction is that they will all be ruined versions of base cards.

How about Ruined Moat?

Reaction:  When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal and trash this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2012, 05:25:28 am »
0

But a self-trashing ruins defeats the point, you would WANT to trash it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 05:28:47 am by ftl »
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clb

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2012, 12:52:47 pm »
0

since the shelter is +2 actions, doesn't that mean that the ruined village has to be +1 action?
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2012, 01:38:57 pm »
0

since the shelter is +2 actions, doesn't that mean that the ruined village has to be +1 action?

I would say yes.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2012, 01:49:16 pm »
0

since the shelter is +2 actions, doesn't that mean that the ruined village has to be +1 action?

Could be actions with penalty, e.g. discard.
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chwhite

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2012, 01:53:55 pm »
+4

I am betting you can guess what three of the other Ruinses do.

Donald X. has clearly overestimated our collective grasp of the obvious.  Of course they're just +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.  They're supposed to be bad cards!
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2012, 03:07:26 pm »
0

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
The Ruins cards are all actions. As with Duration cards, being half white wouldn't be telling you anything extra. I mean the game could have gone that way from the beginning, but it didn't.

The Shelters meanwhile are not all Actions. With two of them indicating the other type it seemed best if Necropolis also did.

Again I do not know why Necropolis doesn't have red on the same side as the others. You can't be consistent for every type, but these could have been consistent. You could ask Catrein, he did the layout.

So, here Donald confirms that all Shelters are Actions.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2012, 03:11:02 pm »
0

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
The Ruins cards are all actions. As with Duration cards, being half white wouldn't be telling you anything extra. I mean the game could have gone that way from the beginning, but it didn't.

The Shelters meanwhile are not all Actions. With two of them indicating the other type it seemed best if Necropolis also did.

Again I do not know why Necropolis doesn't have red on the same side as the others. You can't be consistent for every type, but these could have been consistent. You could ask Catrein, he did the layout.

So, here Donald confirms that all Shelters are Actions.

Wait, what? He confirms that all Ruins are Actions, not Shelters.

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2012, 03:13:04 pm »
0

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?
The Ruins cards are all actions. As with Duration cards, being half white wouldn't be telling you anything extra. I mean the game could have gone that way from the beginning, but it didn't.

The Shelters meanwhile are not all Actions. With two of them indicating the other type it seemed best if Necropolis also did.

Again I do not know why Necropolis doesn't have red on the same side as the others. You can't be consistent for every type, but these could have been consistent. You could ask Catrein, he did the layout.

So, here Donald confirms that all Shelters are Actions.

Wait, what? He confirms that all Ruins are Actions, not Shelters.

Yes, I quoted that from page 5 of today's previews. All Ruins are Actions.
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Theodorelogan

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2012, 02:33:25 pm »
0

I agree with the theory that one of the. Is going to be beneficial.

I also don't get why people think one will will be +action. That doesn't do anything. I also don't see why people think it will be these boring vanilla cards (+card, +coin, and so on.)

My guesses

A card with -1 victory point but is a cantrip like a reverse great hall

If this card is trashed, you must trash another card of cost 3 or more with it. If you can't, draw another ruin.
Or
If you trash this card, gain a card from the trash

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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2012, 02:36:35 pm »
+1

I agree with the theory that one of the. Is going to be beneficial.

I also don't get why people think one will will be +action. That doesn't do anything. I also don't see why people think it will be these boring vanilla cards (+card, +coin, and so on.)

My guesses

A card with -1 victory point but is a cantrip like a reverse great hall

If this card is trashed, you must trash another card of cost 3 or more with it. If you can't, draw another ruin.
Or
If you trash this card, gain a card from the trash

We think that the cards will be +$, + Cad, +Action because Donald X. said we should be able to guess them. Occum's Razor--The simplest explanation is usually the best and most accurate.

Anyway, we likely won't get a -1 VP card because all Ruins are Actions. The last card might be elaborate, but I'm willing to be money that the first four are +$, +Card, +Action, +Buy
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eHalcyon

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2012, 02:40:19 pm »
0

Yes, I quoted that from page 5 of today's previews. All Ruins are Actions.

You wrote that all Shelters were Actions.  :P

I agree with the theory that one of the. Is going to be beneficial.

I also don't get why people think one will will be +action. That doesn't do anything. I also don't see why people think it will be these boring vanilla cards (+card, +coin, and so on.)

My guesses

A card with -1 victory point but is a cantrip like a reverse great hall

If this card is trashed, you must trash another card of cost 3 or more with it. If you can't, draw another ruin.
Or
If you trash this card, gain a card from the trash

They are expected to be boring vanilla because Ruined Market is such, and Donald X commented that we should be able to predict the three others, thus +1 action, +1 card and +$1 are likely.  I agree that +1 action pretty much does nothing, but it would still work, sort of.  It has interaction with Conspirator, HoP, draw-to-X cards like Library.  So there's that.  (PPE: ninja'd)

I don't think that anything is going to be actually beneficial.  I mean, Ruined Market can be beneficial sometimes, sure, but most of the time it will be a hindrance.  I expect the same of the other ruins, because otherwise it is way too swingy.  It is already a bit swingy in that some Ruins will be better than others, but I expect that their usefulness will still be pretty close together on the lower end of things.
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dghunter79

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2012, 02:16:49 pm »
+4

Ruined Hag:

Just a picture of your mom taped to a blank Dominion card.

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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2012, 05:02:57 am »
0

Ruminating on this:

Ruined Feast - Trash this card.  Gain a card costing up to $0.

It fits the trashing concept, and while you can trash it out of your deck, it is a forced gain of another card you normally want to trash.  So it takes two turns to get it out of your hand.  Alternatively, you could save it up for a Highway/Bridge thing.

Otherwise:

Ruined Throne Room - Choose an Action card in your hand.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2012, 08:33:34 am »
0

Ruined Copper.

Treasure that gives + $0.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2019, 07:37:41 am »
0

This was a pretty fun thread to read in 2019.
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Re: Puzzle: The Four Mysterious Ruins
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2019, 04:22:54 pm »
+2

I've said it before; but I definitely think Ruined Library instead of Ruined Smithy. The Ruins would make a lot more sense as buildings or places instead of people. It's effect could be +1 card, or possibly draw to 5 cards in hand.

Hey, look at that!
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