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[jotheonah]

But if you play all your money with Black Market first...?

[WheresMyElephant]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.

Though at the time, I was thinking Graverobber would be able to hit $3P, but it can't as you say.

This was my first guess too but is it confirmed? We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before. I don't think it's quite out of the question to interpret it as shorthand for "Costing at least X and no more than Y, in coins."

[Dsell]

I think people aren't giving Graverobber enough credit. I'm sure it will get better with some combos from Dark Ages, but even still it's far from a bad card. I agree with others that mass graverobbers-->Province is probably not going to be fast enough, but I bet there is a lot of support for this card, with other TfB and in an engine where it can draw the card it just put on top. On that note I think it's probably best in engines and can be used like a gimped expand to gain more expensive engine parts from cheaper ones, and then with a couple big turns it can bring a bunch of those cheaper cards back on top of the deck. Like others have said it also encourages groupthink, and if one person picks one up, others probably will too, and if they do, it's better for everyone.

Sage has already been covered a whole bunch, and I like it a lot. I'd buy it.

Poor house is obviously great in the right situations, but I'm betting people are overestimating the number of situations in which it's great. I think that when the expansion comes out/PH appears on iso, people are all going to try to build a deck around it and realize that it's not as amazing as it looks. You get $4 from a $1 card, that's amazing! Now what? You have no money. But then after everyone gets over their buyer's remorse they'll probably learn how to slip it into lots of other deck types to maximize their profit and because of how potentially good it is and how easy it is to acquire, it'll be a popular card. It looks like a pretty high-skill card. I'm really excited to try it.

[Cuzz]

I have a feeling (partly based on reading some posts so far) that Graverobber is going to cause some rules confusion at the beginning before people get really used to it. The first clause gains from the trash, has the $3 to $6 cost condition, the topdecking benefit, but no card type condition. The second clause gains from the supply, has the action card condition, but no cost condition (other than the $3 or less upgrade), and no topdecking benefit.

It'll be interesting to see how easy it is to keep this straight, since I think I've seen a few people claim that you can't gain a province since they cost more than $6, or that you can't gain a province unless someone else has trashed one.

[Robz888]

Ah, Poor House! Wreaking havoc on Remake, Upgrade, and even Develop (!) in one fell swoop.

[jotheonah]

I think we might end up thinking of Poor House as more like a cheap Workshop, good for Gardens strategies and buying a lot of cheap things. Although obviously it has more utility in other contexts.

At $1, it will be really tempting to spend extra buys on it when you don't really want it.

[jonts26]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.

Though at the time, I was thinking Graverobber would be able to hit $3P, but it can't as you say.

This was my first guess too but is it confirmed? We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before. I don't think it's quite out of the question to interpret it as shorthand for "Costing at least X and no more than Y, in coins."

Dominion cards are ridiculously precise in their language. I think if Donald wanted it to mean 'in coins' he would have written in coins.

[Robz888]

I think I am just going to talk about how each card combos with Scout. For Graverobber, well, Scout is a a card that costs between $3 and $6! Boom, right there. And of course Sage can draw Scout, so there's that. If you have Poor House in hand, you would rather have a Scout sitting next to it than a Copper. Sort of.

[gamesou]

Maybe Sage/Treasure Map can be nice ?

[LastFootnote]

I think we might end up thinking of Poor House as more like a cheap Workshop, good for Gardens strategies and buying a lot of cheap things. Although obviously it has more utility in other contexts.

Thing is, Workshop is already cheap, and Poor House is a lot worse than Workshop if you're only using it to hit $4 reliably. It neither provides extra buys, nor gains you extra cards. I don't think it's actually useful in most Gardens games at all.

[jonts26]

Poor house might take the 'almost always terrible but super awesome when it's good' crown. Apologies to coppersmith.

[DWetzel]

In thinking about it, Poor House I think is still potentially awesome in a lot of situations.

First and most obviously, if you have one, you basically always have $4 in your hand (barring weird shenanigans like Potions).  With Gardens/Silk Road, it's a big winner (and no big deal if you draw 2 or 3 in the same hand).

I can see Poor House/Highway or Poor House/Bridge decks becoming a "thing".

Random hilarity with Minion decks.  Mix in a couple Festivals for maximum joy.

It's probably even a decent card in just less than full big money decks -- a random hand of Poor House, victory card, some other random action, and two treasures means it's a terminal Silver with no benefit.

I look forward to overbuying the living heck out of it.

[pauley_walnuts]

Rules question:

Your hand:  Laboratory, Bazaar, Poor House, Copper, Copper.

Play Laboratory, draw two Coppers.  Play Bazaar, draw another Copper.  Your hand now looks like:  Poor House, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, and you've already produced $1 to spend from the Bazaar.

Now play Poor House and all of the Coppers.  How much do you have to spend now?

Option 1:  $6.  You got $1 from the Bazaar, $0 from the Poor House, and $5 from five Coppers.
Option 2:  $5.  You got $1 from the Bazaar, $-1 from the Poor House, and $5 from five Coppers.

What I'm getting at is that I'm not sure if Poor House's $0 minimum means that Poor House can't produce less than $0, or if your total coins to spend so far can't be less than $0.

Follow up rules question, the Poor House reveal only happens once, correct? If so, then the proper play on the turn stated above, should be Bazaar first, then Poor House, then Laboratory. In which case, you'll get $6.

EDIT: Second edit, actually, it's 7.

Bazaar: +1, Poor House: +1 (-3 from Coppers), Laboratory: draw two more coppers, Coppers: +5.

[shraeye]

I think people aren't giving Graverobber enough credit. I'm sure it will get better with some combos from Dark Ages, but even still it's far from a bad card. I agree with others that mass graverobbers-->Province is probably not going to be fast enough, but I bet there is a lot of support for this card, with other TfB and in an engine where it can draw the card it just put on top.

The more I mull this card over the more I can see use for it.  Apprentice/Graverobber will be very powerful, and very fast.  Trashing golds with apprentice will give you a huge hand and you will likely pull some of your graverobbers into that hand.  Even without some +actions, you can retrieve your gold and buy an expensive card likely a province. (never underestimate holding 10 cards)

I suspect that Apprentice/Graverobber combo will pull provinces very quickly.

[jsh357]

Hamlet/Poorhouse is going to be killer.  Discard coppers, profit.  Especially with Watchtower, Minion, Library, etc

[Cuzz]

This was my first guess too but is it confirmed? We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before. I don't think it's quite out of the question to interpret it as shorthand for "Costing at least X and no more than Y, in coins."

Dominion cards are ridiculously precise in their language. I think if Donald wanted it to mean 'in coins' he would have written in coins.

Math time: I've read a good explanation that potion costs just make card costs complex (more or less). The expression "3 ≤ z ≤ 6" is shorthand for "z (is real and) between 3 and 6 inclusive," since a statement like 3 ≤ 4 + i ≤ 6 is nonsense. Hence Golem's cost does not lie between that of Steward and Adventurer.

[Robz888]

It's a little disconcerting that we have already thought up so many things that combo with Poor House. Who wants to bet this card is going to be basically a super Fool's Gold?

[jonts26]

It's a little disconcerting that we have already thought up so many things that combo with Poor House. Who wants to bet this card is going to be basically a super Fool's Gold?

I'm betting against it. I think it's going to be harder than you think to make it worthwhile. Though I don't doubt it's super utility when it is.

[shraeye]

I'm betting against it. I think it's going to be harder than you think to make it worthwhile. Though I don't doubt it's super utility when it is.

So far I agree.  Poor house looks like a terrible card, but also a terribly fun card.  It will have its niches like any other card; perhaps it is just perversely fun to think them up.

[chwhite]

Poor house might take the 'almost always terrible but super awesome when it's good' crown. Apologies to coppersmith.

I expect Poor House to be good a lot more often than Coppersmith.  Probably a little more narrow than "the Action equivalent of Fool's Gold", but that's the comparison coming to my head right now.

I think all this talk about using it as a Workshop, or with Gardens/SR is insane.  This is definitely a card that loves engines hardcore.

[Dsell]

Graverobber seems like it can green obscenely fast.

And militia is a liability on PH/village engine boards. Village->PH->PH nets province unless you draw a copper.

[jsimantov]

We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before.

We actually have, though. Check the Alchemy rulebook.

[chwhite]

It's a little disconcerting that we have already thought up so many things that combo with Poor House. Who wants to bet this card is going to be basically a super Fool's Gold?

I do!  It's going to be just like Fool's Gold, except it will bring joy to the games it's in, rather than destroy joy.

[shMerker]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.

Though at the time, I was thinking Graverobber would be able to hit $3P, but it can't as you say.

This was my first guess too but is it confirmed? We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before. I don't think it's quite out of the question to interpret it as shorthand for "Costing at least X and no more than Y, in coins."

Dominion cards are ridiculously precise in their language. I think if Donald wanted it to mean 'in coins' he would have written in coins.

It's actually already covered in the Alchemy rules.

References to a cost range in coins does not include cards with $P in the cost.
Example: a card that refers to cards costing "from $3 to $6" would mean cards costing
exactly $3, $4, $5, or $6. No cards published so far use this phrasing, but if one does in
a later expansion, the range will not include cards with $P in the cost.

So no digging up the familiars or alchemists that were trashed for possessions. They cremate those suckers.

[jonts26]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.

Though at the time, I was thinking Graverobber would be able to hit $3P, but it can't as you say.

This was my first guess too but is it confirmed? We havent seen the "costing $X to $Y" notation before. I don't think it's quite out of the question to interpret it as shorthand for "Costing at least X and no more than Y, in coins."

Dominion cards are ridiculously precise in their language. I think if Donald wanted it to mean 'in coins' he would have written in coins.

It's actually already covered in the Alchemy rules.

References to a cost range in coins does not include cards with $P in the cost.
Example: a card that refers to cards costing "from $3 to $6" would mean cards costing
exactly $3, $4, $5, or $6. No cards published so far use this phrasing, but if one does in
a later expansion, the range will not include cards with $P in the cost.

Oh that Donald. Always planning ahead.