Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12  All

Author Topic: Dark Ages Preview #1: Graverobber, Poor House, Sage  (Read 156504 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +937
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 09:42:52 am »
0

Later this seems pretty weak. I think this filter mechanic is better in cursing games and it counters Ghost Ship.

With you on all of your observations, but I don't get this one.  Sage still consumes a card slot, so if you keep Sage just to redraw something you put back, well, you might as well have kept the something else and put the Sage back for all the difference it makes.  If you had a Sage but NOT your desired target, you could have drawn it with Sage equally as well regardless of whether you'd been Ghost Shipped or not.  What am I missing?
Logged

Tejayes

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
  • Respect: +132
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 09:45:24 am »
+3

Counting House and Poor House = not friends

Reminds me of "A Christmas Carol." Scrooge always puts his Counting House first, thinking little to nothing of the Poor House because he believes it would only hurt his riches. By the end, he puts the Poor House first, but he still has his Counting House, which when combined makes him richer than he's ever been.

The only remaining question is, when is Dominion getting its poorly-produced elementary school play?
Logged

mborda

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 09:46:10 am »
0

I canīt see the images here at work!!!
Someone can please write down the cards text PLEASE!!!
Thanks!
Logged

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 09:46:35 am »
+3

Later this seems pretty weak. I think this filter mechanic is better in cursing games and it counters Ghost Ship.

With you on all of your observations, but I don't get this one.  Sage still consumes a card slot, so if you keep Sage just to redraw something you put back, well, you might as well have kept the something else and put the Sage back for all the difference it makes.  If you had a Sage but NOT your desired target, you could have drawn it with Sage equally as well regardless of whether you'd been Ghost Shipped or not.  What am I missing?

1. Get hit with Ghost Ship
2. Put Coppers or Estates on deck
3. Play Sage
4. ? ? ?
5. Profit
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 09:46:42 am »
0

Later this seems pretty weak. I think this filter mechanic is better in cursing games and it counters Ghost Ship.

With you on all of your observations, but I don't get this one.  Sage still consumes a card slot, so if you keep Sage just to redraw something you put back, well, you might as well have kept the something else and put the Sage back for all the difference it makes.  If you had a Sage but NOT your desired target, you could have drawn it with Sage equally as well regardless of whether you'd been Ghost Shipped or not.  What am I missing?

Say you have two Markets, two Estates, and a Sage in your hand.  Opponent plays Ghost Ship.  Put the Estates on your deck.  When it's your turn, play Sage.  :)
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Glooble

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
  • Respect: +61
    • View Profile
    • Solutions to Problems
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2012, 09:46:50 am »
+3

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one can always buy a Garden.
Logged

I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

He/ Him

Check out my podcast: www.stppodcast.com

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +949
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2012, 09:47:28 am »
0

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

WheresMyElephant

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 135
  • Respect: +63
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2012, 09:48:18 am »
0

TR/Graverobber looks fun. Gain a Province or whatever and immediately get your original card back, topdecking it.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2012, 09:49:42 am »
+1

I canīt see the images here at work!!!
Someone can please write down the cards text PLEASE!!!
Thanks!

Graverobber
Action - $5

Choose one: Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6, putting it on top of your deck; or trash an Action card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $3 more than it.


---

Poor House
Action - $1

+$4

Reveal your hand.  -$1 per Treasure card in your hand, to a minimum of $0.

---

Sage
Action - $3

+1 Action

Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one costing $3 or more.  Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3603
  • Respect: +6121
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2012, 09:49:51 am »
+1

Sage pairs with early hard-hitting attacks in a very similar way that Scheme does.
Logged

Glooble

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
  • Respect: +61
    • View Profile
    • Solutions to Problems
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2012, 09:49:57 am »
+1

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP

No. If you reveal 2 coppers, your poor house is only worth 2 - but you still have the two coppers. It doesn't say discard them.
Logged

I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

He/ Him

Check out my podcast: www.stppodcast.com

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2012, 09:50:14 am »
0

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP

Nope. Each Copper in hand makes Poor House 1 coin worse, but adds one coin. Except for exotic treasures like HoP and Bank, you will always have $4 in your hand if you have a Poor House.
Logged

Glooble

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
  • Respect: +61
    • View Profile
    • Solutions to Problems
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2012, 09:50:43 am »
0

If you reveal two silvers, your total money is six.
Logged

I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

He/ Him

Check out my podcast: www.stppodcast.com

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1886
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2012, 09:50:49 am »
0

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP

Untrue -- Poor House/C/C/C/E Still buys a Gardens just fine.


Also, everyone talking about gaining Provinces back from the trash with Graverobber might be benefitted from rereading the card.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +949
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2012, 09:51:17 am »
0

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP

No. If you reveal 2 coppers, your poor house is only worth 2 - but you still have the two coppers. It doesn't say discard them.
Ooh, that does make it suck less. But for the sake of argument, you could have a Potion in hand
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2012, 09:52:00 am »
0

Poor House + Gold + Gold = Province
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2012, 09:52:09 am »
+6

Poor House could be nice with Gardens. Cost makes it easy to pick up with one buy, and a hand with one and no money can always buy a Garden.

FYP

Untrue -- Poor House/C/C/C/E Still buys a Gardens just fine.

Oh no, two Bureaucrats correcting each other!
Logged

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2012, 09:53:12 am »
+1

Copied from the prediction game thread:

Well then!

Graverobber: The fact that Graverobber only trashes Actions for benefit is, I think, going to be its big limitation.  That means you need an Action-heavy deck for it to be worthwhile, and since you generally don't like getting rid of your hard-bought Actions, it'll be tough even then.  Chaining Graverobbers up to Province just has to be slow and not actually worth it, like trying to build a Remodel deck.  It looks to me like it needs other trashing actions to be useful most of the time- either early-game trashers you can trash for benefit (something like Steward is going to be good here, since you don't mind getting it back), or the canonical TFBs Salvager/Apprentice which like to trash good cards to begin with.  And I'm sure there are Dark Ages-specific combos with cards we haven't seen yet.  But my preliminary thought is that this is not a card I am going to buy that often.

Poor House: Holy Zounds!  A $1 card!  That gives you $4!   Obviously super situational, but also pretty damn super when you can make it work.  I'm generally skeptical about terminal treasure as a class of card (see the discussion about Merchant Ship and Harvest), but this has the potential to be such an incredible value.  Obviously the havoc it wreaks with Upgrade/Remake is important to note- I'm inclined to think it just straightforwardly makes those two cards bad 99% of the time* when both are in the kingdom, and needs to be comboed with Villages and non-gaining trashers for full effect.  I am going to have fun trying to make Poor House decks trying to work if these cards ever become available in an online implementation.

*Or, at least, bad openers.  It probably hurts Remake a lot more.

I am going to go ahead and say that Poor House is, at least for now, the best $1 card in the game bar none.

Sage: This card strikes me as something you do not want to buy in games where you also buy lots of Silver.  If you have a couple top-tier Actions you want to play as much as possible, and lots of other dreck- Curse games perhaps, then Sage will be a great digger.  If it just gets you Silver and stuff, okay maybe that's worth it in curse-filled slogs except why don't you just buy more Silver to begin with?  And if you have lots of trashing and not much dreck, it's likely to be just a cantrip.  I can see myself buying this more than Graverobber, but probably not all that often- again, unless Dark Ages leads to plenty of the sorts of games where Sage is likely to be best.

Oh, huh.  Sage feels a little bit like a half-Golem to me.  I could almost see a Sage/Counting House deck working.
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2012, 09:56:07 am »
0

You know what?  I think Sage is an attempt to fix Chancellor (sort of like how Noble Brigand "fixes" Thief).  It discards, so it does well with Tunnel (if you get costs down), and it gives +1 Action.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +949
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2012, 09:57:16 am »
0

Sage/Counting House has one huge advantage over Golem/Counting House in that Sage is much easier to acquire quickly.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +937
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2012, 09:58:30 am »
0

Later this seems pretty weak. I think this filter mechanic is better in cursing games and it counters Ghost Ship.

With you on all of your observations, but I don't get this one.  Sage still consumes a card slot, so if you keep Sage just to redraw something you put back, well, you might as well have kept the something else and put the Sage back for all the difference it makes.  If you had a Sage but NOT your desired target, you could have drawn it with Sage equally as well regardless of whether you'd been Ghost Shipped or not.  What am I missing?

Say you have two Markets, two Estates, and a Sage in your hand.  Opponent plays Ghost Ship.  Put the Estates on your deck.  When it's your turn, play Sage.  :)

Ok, so it turns a Ghost Ship into a Militia instead.  The attack still hurts (well, not in that example), but the effect is muted.  Cool.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +949
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2012, 09:59:11 am »
0

You know what?  I think Sage is an attempt to fix Chancellor (sort of like how Noble Brigand "fixes" Thief).  It discards, so it does well with Tunnel (if you get costs down), and it gives +1 Action.

Like Sage/Highway/lots of tunnels? If you set it up just right it might work, but only once. Once you get those Golds in your deck that trick gets a lot less effective.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2012, 09:59:43 am »
0

You know what?  I think Sage is an attempt to fix Chancellor (sort of like how Noble Brigand "fixes" Thief).  It discards, so it does well with Tunnel (if you get costs down), and it gives +1 Action.
But it's hard to get it to work well with tunnel, as there is only 2 cards in the game that will hel you do that.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2012, 10:02:38 am »
0

You know what?  I think Sage is an attempt to fix Chancellor (sort of like how Noble Brigand "fixes" Thief).  It discards, so it does well with Tunnel (if you get costs down), and it gives +1 Action.
But it's hard to get it to work well with tunnel, as there is only 2 cards in the game that will hel you do that.

Three.  Little 'ol Princess.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Dark Ages Preview #1
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2012, 10:02:54 am »
0

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 12  All
 

Page created in 0.059 seconds with 20 queries.