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[DWetzel]

With the advent of Dark Ages and the Poor House card, it occured to me that it's possible to construct a new sort of moneyless "golden deck" with Bishop-Poor House-Poor House-Crossroads-Province.  (Play Crossroads, 2x Poor House, Bishop the Province, buy new province, repeat.)

The question at hand is, how fast can one set this 5 card deck up?

I'm terrible at these things, so this is nowhere near a good solution, but I have it start working on turn 8.

1 Buy Chapel (X)
2 Buy Crossroads (R)
3 XCCCC, trash
4 REEEC, draw CC (reshuffle) X, trash CCEE, buy Poor House (H): deck = CEHRX
5 R, X trash EC, H, buy Bishop (B), deck = RXBH
6 R, B trashing X, H buying H
7 R, H, H, B, R playing H, H, B trashing nothing, buy Province
8 R, B trash Province, H, H, buy Province
9+ Repeat

Someone please improve on this, because I'm sure it's possible.

[WanderingWinder]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

[DWetzel]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

That would be moderately less fun.

[ehunt]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

DWetzel, +1 for cool idea, but passive-aggressive feelings of repressed negativity toward you for using X as an abbreviation for chapel when Xroads is in the game though.

[DWetzel]

DWetzel, +1 for cool idea, but passive-aggressive feelings of repressed negativity toward you for using X as an abbreviation for chapel when Xroads is in the game though.

Hehe.    But C's obviously taken so then I'd have to use H for it, and I wanted to use H for Poor House since you certainly can't use P... it was more of a conundrum than you think, virtually worthy of its own puzzle post.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

Not really. The canonical Golden deck doesn't struggle to hit $6. You buy the Gold when you're down to just Bishop+Silver+Silver+Copper. You're not limited by coin so much as by the number of turns it takes to trash everything. And Silver is probably going to be better than Poor House for before everything is trashed, since it doesn't require an action.

[ehunt]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

Not really. The canonical Golden deck doesn't struggle to hit $6. You buy the Gold when you're down to just Bishop+Silver+Silver+Copper. You're not limited by coin so much as by the number of turns it takes to trash everything. And Silver is probably going to be better than Poor House for before everything is trashed, since it doesn't require an action.

I'm skeptical. Bishop + village + village + copper ---> poor house + poor house + golden deck is in place, same as gold, but village cycles you faster than silver on the way to get there.

[ehunt]

Am I right?

chapel
bishop
second shuffle (if you draw them apart) bishop something, buy village
chapel hand.

Is this right? you now have something like Village Bishop Chapel  and 5 (coppers/estates) (assuming your opponent didn't bishop anything). You only need to pick up one more village and play chapel one more time and you're ready to go.

if you draw them together on the second shuffle, you're sad, but like, that's life.

[WanderingWinder]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

Not really. The canonical Golden deck doesn't struggle to hit $6. You buy the Gold when you're down to just Bishop+Silver+Silver+Copper. You're not limited by coin so much as by the number of turns it takes to trash everything. And Silver is probably going to be better than Poor House for before everything is trashed, since it doesn't require an action.

I'm skeptical. Bishop + village + village + copper ---> poor house + poor house + golden deck is in place, same as gold, but village cycles you faster than silver on the way to get there.

What you need to hit it in the village/PH case: buy 2 villages, 2 poor houses, 1 bishop, 1 chapel, then you're good (plus the chapel trashing time).
Standard case: 1 chapel, 1 bishop, 2 silver, 1 gold. 1 fewer card, which isn't any great shakes, but isn't really hard to get, provided your chapel doesn't miss the shuffle (which kills both). So basically it's just a turn faster, and gets a little more points off of the bishop on the way.

[eHalcyon]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

Not really. The canonical Golden deck doesn't struggle to hit $6. You buy the Gold when you're down to just Bishop+Silver+Silver+Copper. You're not limited by coin so much as by the number of turns it takes to trash everything. And Silver is probably going to be better than Poor House for before everything is trashed, since it doesn't require an action.

I'm skeptical. Bishop + village + village + copper ---> poor house + poor house + golden deck is in place, same as gold, but village cycles you faster than silver on the way to get there.

What you need to hit it in the village/PH case: buy 2 villages, 2 poor houses, 1 bishop, 1 chapel, then you're good (plus the chapel trashing time).
Standard case: 1 chapel, 1 bishop, 2 silver, 1 gold. 1 fewer card, which isn't any great shakes, but isn't really hard to get, provided your chapel doesn't miss the shuffle (which kills both). So basically it's just a turn faster, and gets a little more points off of the bishop on the way.

Replacing Villages with TRs would need 1 card less, I think?

TR-TR-PH-Bishop-Province

And as a bonus, the extra Bishop play gives you one more VP.

[WanderingWinder]

Sure. Play the normal (chapel+bishop) golden deck....

This has got to be faster, not just with optimal shuffle luck, because PH is so cheap compared to gold. Xroads can be replaced with a pair of villages.

Not really. The canonical Golden deck doesn't struggle to hit $6. You buy the Gold when you're down to just Bishop+Silver+Silver+Copper. You're not limited by coin so much as by the number of turns it takes to trash everything. And Silver is probably going to be better than Poor House for before everything is trashed, since it doesn't require an action.

I'm skeptical. Bishop + village + village + copper ---> poor house + poor house + golden deck is in place, same as gold, but village cycles you faster than silver on the way to get there.

What you need to hit it in the village/PH case: buy 2 villages, 2 poor houses, 1 bishop, 1 chapel, then you're good (plus the chapel trashing time).
Standard case: 1 chapel, 1 bishop, 2 silver, 1 gold. 1 fewer card, which isn't any great shakes, but isn't really hard to get, provided your chapel doesn't miss the shuffle (which kills both). So basically it's just a turn faster, and gets a little more points off of the bishop on the way.

Replacing Villages with TRs would need 1 card less, I think?

TR-TR-PH-Bishop-Province

And as a bonus, the extra Bishop play gives you one more VP.

That is one card less than you had, and now equal to the regular version. So yeah, I suppose if you have PH/Bishop/Chapel/TR, on a board, go for it. Nice!

[eHalcyon]

That is one card less than you had, and now equal to the regular version. So yeah, I suppose if you have PH/Bishop/Chapel/TR, on a board, go for it. Nice!

I think I'd still prefer the original Bishop deck though.  Would PH be faster to set up, on average?  And of course, the Bishop combo only needs Bishop and Chapel.

[verikt]

mint poorhouse, draw poorhouse mint buy baron, draw baron crossroads crossroads buy bishop.draw crossroads estate baron bishop poorhouse. trash copper or mint. (with optimal luck) after that you should have it every turn.

[zahlman]

Mint/PH
draw MPEEE, buy Bishop.
draw CC(reshuffle)MBE, Bishop on Mint, buy Crossroads.
draw EEP(reshuffle)XE, Crossroads drawing deck (BCC), Bishop on Copper, buy Chapel.
draw EEEXP, Crossroads drawing deck (BCH), Chapel the Estates, Bishop on Copper, buy PH.
draw XPPBH and begin golden-decking using Bishop on Chapel.

That's... not as good as I hoped :/

verikt I don't understand what you're doing with the Baron or how you're getting rid of the estates; we're assuming perfect shuffle luck to set up the deck but for it to count as set up we can't continue assuming perfect shuffle luck... keeping the estates around means there's a chance we don't draw crossroads every turn.