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[TheMathProf]

Take a fairly vanilla board where you've decided to open Remake/Silver.  On Turn 3, you draw Remake, 3 Coppers, and an Estate.  There are no $2 cards on the board worth buying.  Do you Remake the Estate and a Copper, or do you Remake 2 Coppers?  Does it matter what the $3 cards are?

My first thought on these was that you remake the Estate, but more and more, unless there's some $3 card that excites me (more than Silver), I've been thinking that maybe remaking the two coppers (one less total card in hand the deck) is the right play.  Maybe it's too much playing with Ambassador's that got me thinking this way.

Anyway, what do you guys think?  Is this patently obvious, worth considering, or am I completely off my rocker?

[jonts26]

Unless you really want that estate for some other purpose (baron maybe?) I really think you need to turn it into a silver (assuming there's nothing else at $3 you want more, which there very well could be). Yeah, you get 1 more card out of your deck, but especially when you are setting up an engine, you need spending money. Remake as an open makes it kind of hard to hit $5, which is often where the best engine cards are. And this is double true if you get rid of your coppers and leave the dead card.

[eHalcyon]

I would probably go with Remaking the Estate.

Remake Estate + Copper:
- gain a $3 (Silver, or something else)
- get rid of Estate, Copper, still have a Copper

Remake 2x Copper:
- gain nothing
- get rid of two Copper, still have Estate

Don't remake anything:
- buy a $3 (Silver, or something else)
- get rid of nothing, still have Estate, 2xCopper

The third choice is obviously inferior to the first choice, so we can discount it... unless you really want to keep your Copper.

I content that the second choice is also inferior to the first choice:
- You are left with an Estate instead of a Copper
- You do not gain a Silver, so your economy is worse

Maybe you still prefer to do this if you prefer having the Estate (e.g. you have a Baron?  though that's unlikely).

But otherwise, first choice is best.  With Amb, you can't get rid of Copper+Estate at once, and getting rid of 2 Copper is better than getting rid of 1 Estate.  But with Remake, you don't have that restriction.

(semi-ninja'd)

[Tables]

I think it depends on what kind of board you're going for.

If by 'fairly vanilla' you mean 'Province board with no serious megaturn potential' then probably, grab a Silver* and remake a copper. Copper's aren't that bad, Estates are, and Silvers are good.
*Or better $3, but at worst, a Silver

Consider the remainder of your deck in either case.

Remake 2x Copper. Your deck now has:
5 Copper
1 Silver
1 Remake
3 Estates
(Average card value is no better than you started the game, except you have a Remake)

Remake Copper, Estate. Your deck is now:
6 Copper
2 Silver
1 Remake
2 Estates
You have 1 more card in total, but your average card value is 0.91 instead of 0.7, which is a big jump. Okay, you have to consider the fact you probably get another $5 or a $4 next turn, before you reshuffle, which makes it slightly less extreme, but it's still much better to turn Estates into Silver than to trash copper for no benefit in almost all cases.

To put it in a more extreme way, suppose you instead drew RCCEE. It's pretty much the same scenario, but now you have three choices, and turning two Estates into two Silvers seems really, really good, while trashing two Coppers is a severely gimped Chapel.

[Young Nick]

This year-old thread discusses the same idea.

I figure the Estate->Silver is better, but I haven't given it too much thought.

[ycz6]

Steward has the same issue. What do you do with a Steward + 4 Copper hand on turn 4?

[Tdog]

If its turn 3 you can't have a baron because you spent your 4 on the remake.

[Kuildeous]

In general, when I have the choice between trashing a Copper or an Estate, I always go for the Estate. If I don't trash a Copper, then it'll come back and still give me +$1. If I don't trash an Estate, then it'll come back and plague my hand. There may be niche cases where I would choose to trash a Copper instead.

[Kahryl]

I think I finally understand why the OP would want to trash a copper (and what "one less card in hand" means), he means one less card in the DECK.. basically if you trash coppers and gain nothing, you'll cycle back to the remake a lot faster than if you trashed estates and gained silvers.

It's a tempting thought, but it'll still take you 5 plays of Remake - 8ish turns? To get to the "silver" deck of 1 Remake 3 silver, and that doesn't seem like enough of a payoff in that time frame.

Plus a silver or two can really help you balance economy growth and Remake. Remake-Silver-(3 copper/estate) will let you trash two cards AND buy a $3 unless you drew 3 estates, Remake-(4 copper/estate) will not.

[Geronimoo]

It might be a viable option not to trash the Estates if they serve a function like provide drawing power in a Crossroads deck. But you'd need a very specific board.

[Tables]

Steward has the same issue. What do you do with a Steward + 4 Copper hand on turn 4?

You ask yourself 'Would I want to buy a Cache with $2 on this board?' which will usually have the same answer as 'Am I building an engine?' Trashing coppers is... or at least was, overrated. It's great for engines, but for money based decks, it's rarely worth the effort.

[eHalcyon]

If its turn 3 you can't have a baron because you spent your 4 on the remake.

You are second player. T1, opponent buys NB, flipping an Estate.

[Jack Rudd]

If its turn 3 you can't have a baron because you spent your 4 on the remake.

Noble Brigand says otherwise.

[Jedit]

Steward has the same issue. What do you do with a Steward + 4 Copper hand on turn 4?

Buy Gold?

[Tdog]

If its turn 3 you can't have a baron because you spent your 4 on the remake.

You are second player. T1, opponent buys NB, flipping an Estate.

In general though...

[carstimon]

Steward has the same issue. What do you do with a Steward + 4 Copper hand on turn 4?

Depending on the situation, I might trash, draw, or +2$. 
-Is there a copper in the remaining two cards, and I want $5 cards?  Draw!
-Are the next two cards both estates, or an action I bought turn 1/2?  Almost certainly don't draw!
-Are the next two cards copper and I want gold?  Draw!
-Do I have enough economy for my next shuffle and I'm going for a thin deck?  Trash!
-Do I not have enough economy yet (Ugh: cceee, cccc steward)? +2$!
etc...

[DG]

Similar to the ambassador opening problems, the answer comes from the sort of development and acceleration you need from your deck. If you are looking to remake into silvers and purchase cards then just do that. If you're looking to trash down and then expand quickly from a small base (such as remaking silvers to treasure maps) then trash the coppers first. The remake doesn't trash coppers particularly quickly though, no better than a steward.

[HiveMindEmulator]

The difference between Remake and Ambassador is that Ambassador makes the game slower, whereas Remake makes it faster. In the deck with the Remake opening, you probably need to start building up much faster than in the Ambassador deck.

[PigFiend]

Take a fairly vanilla board where you've decided to open Remake/Silver.  On Turn 3, you draw Remake, 3 Coppers, and an Estate.  There are no $2 cards on the board worth buying.  Do you Remake the Estate and a Copper, or do you Remake 2 Coppers?  Does it matter what the $3 cards are?

My first thought on these was that you remake the Estate, but more and more, unless there's some $3 card that excites me (more than Silver), I've been thinking that maybe remaking the two coppers (one less total card in hand the deck) is the right play.  Maybe it's too much playing with Ambassador's that got me thinking this way.

Anyway, what do you guys think?  Is this patently obvious, worth considering, or am I completely off my rocker?

I often gotten rid of Coppers rather than Estates with Upgrade and Masquerade, but this example is trickier. Whacking 2 Coppers on turn 3 seems very board specific rather than a general philosophy. No good $2 means a lack of Crossroads.
Maybe you start Remake/Loan with the intent of Remaking 2 Coppers the first time, next shuffle Remake 1 Copper and one Estate into Tunnel.
I might whack 2 Coppers out of a 3 Copper hand for a Poor House strategy, though that deck probably still needs to turn Estates into 3s first as well.
You said a vanilla board, though. The power of turning a card worth $0 to one worth $2 is just too great.