Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Morgrim7]

Please note that this is in context. Sab and Ghost Ship and such need some help. Take it in its fullest form.

Please do not look under the spoiler tags until you have voted.
Edit: Possession is the most brutal. That is why I love it!

[pingpongsam]

I voted and found Morgrim and I agree. Torturer is a nice card, actually. It slows the early game down but is a great draw card afterwards the trick is to get some of your own and split the curses then it loses all of its teeth. Possession, OTOH keeps on giving and if someone gets it significantly ahead of you can be a real gamebreaker especially with TR or KC.

[Kahryl]

Torturer for me. Nothing else completely shuts one down. Ghost Ship is a close second though if you start chaining it.

[jomini]

possession all the way. If can lead to agonizingly slow turns (okay so you played KC-KC-Possession-Possession-Possession, but I have an almost dead deck so you MIGHT be able to buy a duchy every third turn), it is wildly luck based (oh I got to 6P first, well I just possess this one hand ... oh wait it is your 6P hand), and of course there are fun things like hi, I'm going to masquerade over a masquerade and then possess you.

[werothegreat]

I've gotten to a point where Torturer no longer phases me.  The trick is to learn when to take curses.

Ghost Ship, on the other hand, I find is the most damaging psychologically.  "I've seen these two cards the past five hands...  aha... ahaha... AHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAAAHHH WAHHHHHHH WAHHHHHH WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY"

[pingpongsam]

Depending on the board IGG can easily be the dominant strategy.

[werothegreat]

Depending on the board IGG can easily be the dominant strategy.

I was working under the assumption that Morgrim was looking for cards that evoke a negative emotional response, not cards that are effective.  I mean, DoubleJack might be a juggernaught, but Chapel/Stables/Fool's Gold is a lot more fun.

[Cuzz]

Recently got hit with a full blown ambassador engine pumping 6 coppers per turn into my deck, so I'm currently biased toward that. Seeing your deck go in the opposite direction from your opponent's that fast is so demoralizing. Ghost ship is a real close second though if it's played every turn.

[Kuildeous]

I had to vote for Followers. I evaluated each card on its own merit as if it were a single attack.

Sure, I could consider Torturer chains, but that requires setting it up. If you have the right engine, all of these cards are brutal. If I could set up the card, then I'd argue Saboteur is the most brutal because your opponent could only hope to win with Estates and Vineyards. But there are too many what-ifs.

For the single most brutal card, I'm going with Followers simply because it has two attacks in one. It's stronger than a Militia, and it's stronger than a Witch. And if I examine individual cards, it's stronger than the Torturer ("You could discard 2 cards, or you could take a Curse…nah, do both").

Granted, Sea Hag is pretty close, if only because it gives you a Curse and effectively gives you a 4-card hand on your next turn.

[mnavratil]

I had to vote Torturer. I think I took somewhat of an opposite approach as Kuildeous. I looked at the merits of the card and how easy it is to use the card to good effect. The thing is, Torturer chains are just so easy to setup. Much easier than Possesion chains. Ghost ship was a close second here for me though, for the same reason as Torturer.

[werothegreat]

Granted, Sea Hag is pretty close, if only because it gives you a Curse and effectively gives you a 4-card hand on your next turn.

Sea Hag is also the only Attack with a card specifically tailored to countering it.  The whole point of Lookout is to get rid of those top-decked Curses.

[philosophyguy]

If we're considering the cards on their own, then I vote Mountebank.

Possession makes a painfully slow game if anyone can play multiples per turn, but that usually requires TR/KC and other enablers. Plus, junking your own deck is a decent enough counter to Possession.

Likewise, Torturer, Ghost Ship, and Ambassador need substantial support to be genuinely brutal. Without support, Ambassador can actually help a BM opponent, Ghost Ship is annoying but not crushing, and Torturer is a fancy Militia.

If Followers didn't have the Estate penalty, I would probably put it in the lead. But, playing Followers immediately slows down the attacker's deck, so it has a built-in mitigator.

Mountebank is the one attack that can truly destroy someone's deck on its own, to the point where even average trashing isn't enough to counter it. The built-in Moat effect is a small consolation prize, since your deck has already been junked if you can block reliably and you can't simultaneously block and trash away the damage.

[Kuildeous]

If Followers didn't have the Estate penalty, I would probably put it in the lead. But, playing Followers immediately slows down the attacker's deck, so it has a built-in mitigator.

If I were to split hairs (and why not?), I'd say that the Estate makes the attack more brutal in the sense that the attack hurts everyone. Kind of a scorched-earth policy.

Though, that explanation is only after the fact. I honestly voted Followers and ignored the Estate portion. I focused on just the attack and not the effects to the attacker. But I do like claiming that it's more brutal because it hurts everything (and you can't Moat yourself [though, Watchtower or Trader would be pretty cool]).

[jomini]

Torturer is overrated. Yes it is a strong attack, but seriously, a curse IN HAND is the LEAST bad place to get it. If there is trashing you can often get it back out without ever drawing it. Even better, you can use the card as feed for vaults, secret chambers, cellars, etc. Alternatively you can discard once or twice in a lot of decks without worrying at all (e.g. library, watchtower, menage, Scrying pool, etc. can often laugh off two hits of torturer).

While possession needs some stuff to make it horrid (an engine, Kc/Tr, Ambassador, Masq, Swindler, etc.), torturer needs there to not be a lot of stuff on the board to make it truly horrid AND for there to be +action with chain potential.

[Lekkit]

Ambassador. There's nothing more unfun than watching one player's opening draws slowly destroying the other player's deck. And the games are sooooo looooooong.

[Rabid]

Witch is the most brutal!

[Kirian]

Witch is the most brutal!

Who's on first?

[brokoli]

I'd say followers, but close to Saboteur.

[werothegreat]

Glad to see Ghost Ship in second.  You nancies need to man up and take Curses - Torturers are nothing to be scared of!

[LastFootnote]

Glad to see Ghost Ship in second.  You nancies need to man up and take Curses - Torturers are nothing to be scared of!

Yeah, agreed. Torturer chains can be painful, but if there's no good Curse trashing then you should also be going Torturer chain. Either way, the attack stops hurting once the Curses run out. Ghost Ship keeps on hurting for the entire game and it's probably the most brutal attack effect out there when played every turn.

[Davio]

Torturer, especially when no more Curses are available and it still asks you if you want to discard.
But I guess programming in a deeply branched if clause with Menagerie and Library would be too much.

[werothegreat]

By the way, Morgrim: you misspelled Saboteur in the poll.

[Morgrim7]

By the way, Morgrim: you misspelled Saboteur in the poll.

Oh, yeah, whoops. Will edit.

Torturer is easier to deal with than you think. Do not be afraid to take curses.