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[Insomniac]

If massclaiming seats was beneficial for town, I'm thinking Ozle would have just told us where everyone sits..

I think he said elsewhere that seatclaiming may or may not be a good idea.

I read that as "some seats are good to claim, some arent", no way of knowing which are good, they are probably going to be a net negative (basicly outing our power roles).

Just because something is pro-town doesn't mean the mod would do it. Putting mafia/serial killers in the game at all isnt pro town!

Not telling us where we sit is not very logical / doesnt fit the flavor. I think the reason he did it is because it gives us some interesting strategic choices and gameplay (when to claim and stuff). I think Ozle is smart enough to not have the system such that it can be cracked by a mass claim.

Eevee, do you want to solve Ozle's murder?  Do you think we should try to do so?  If not, why not?

No, not yet anyways. Or of course I wouldnt mind it happening, but I dont think it should get in the way of scumhunting. I dont think we can do it yet anyways, not before people start flipping (and maybe Ozle plans to reveal us some more info slowly?). It should be pretty obvious the one holding the bloody knife isnt guilty though.

I see this game as a normal mafia affair with a little mini game built in (solving Ozle's murder). First priority is hunting scum, and if I (or you or whoever) figures out the way to solve Ozles murdered (who might be town or scum), he obviously does that and wins the mini game but the main goal is the same than it is in any mafia game. Others disagree?

It should be pretty obvious the one holding the bloody knife isnt guilty though.

Emphasis mine...What how is that obvious.

Also I didn't say mass seat claim breaks the game but I don't see it hurting town either.  You know what I'm doing it

VOTE: SEAT 17

[yuma]

Let's pretend that you (yes, you the person that is reading this) are the murderer. The lights are off. You just stabbed someone in the back with a knife. When the lights go back on everyone is going to be looking for the person with the bloody knife. Are you going to hold onto it and wait for them to find it on you? No. You are going to dump it. In fact you are going to dump it off onto someone you pass on your way back to your seat. Right?

PPE: Like Eevee said, seat 17 isn't very likely to be guilty. How many of us have read murder mysteries before? @Insomniac... see above

[yuma]

The murderer is likely in seat numbers 18-23.

[Insomniac]

The murderer is likely in seat numbers 18-23.

That seems wrong. The other side of the table could just as easily have 'planted' it on seat 17. Also I have read a few murder mysteries and its never seat 17, which would make it being seat 17 a curve ball.

[Voltgloss]

Let's pretend that you (yes, you the person that is reading this) are the murderer. The lights are off. You just stabbed someone in the back with a knife. When the lights go back on everyone is going to be looking for the person with the bloody knife. Are you going to hold onto it and wait for them to find it on you? No. You are going to dump it. In fact you are going to dump it off onto someone you pass on your way back to your seat. Right?

Quite possible.  Here's another possibility:  you (the murderer), assuming everyone will think as yuma and Eevee are thinking, purposefully hold on to the knife.  Counting on the group concluding "oh he must have been framed, he can't be the murderer."

Hey everyone, how's that wine in front of you tasting?

[Eevee]

The murderer is likely in seat numbers 18-23.

That seems wrong. The other side of the table could just as easily have 'planted' it on seat 17. Also I have read a few murder mysteries and its never seat 17, which would make it being seat 17 a curve ball.

Okay yeah, I give you that.

Rephrase: It should be pretty obvious every single seat has basicly an equal chance of being the murderer. Ozle knows you'd first assume its seat 17, then look for guys next to him.. and once again, he isnt stupid.

[Eevee]

Let's pretend that you (yes, you the person that is reading this) are the murderer. The lights are off. You just stabbed someone in the back with a knife. When the lights go back on everyone is going to be looking for the person with the bloody knife. Are you going to hold onto it and wait for them to find it on you? No. You are going to dump it. In fact you are going to dump it off onto someone you pass on your way back to your seat. Right?

Quite possible.  Here's another possibility:  you (the murderer), assuming everyone will think as yuma and Eevee are thinking, purposefully hold on to the knife.  Counting on the group concluding "oh he must have been framed, he can't be the murderer."

Hey everyone, how's that wine in front of you tasting?

Which is why I think looking for the murderer is pointless.

Lets play for towns wincon!

[Insomniac]

Let's pretend that you (yes, you the person that is reading this) are the murderer. The lights are off. You just stabbed someone in the back with a knife. When the lights go back on everyone is going to be looking for the person with the bloody knife. Are you going to hold onto it and wait for them to find it on you? No. You are going to dump it. In fact you are going to dump it off onto someone you pass on your way back to your seat. Right?

Quite possible.  Here's another possibility:  you (the murderer), assuming everyone will think as yuma and Eevee are thinking, purposefully hold on to the knife.  Counting on the group concluding "oh he must have been framed, he can't be the murderer."

Hey everyone, how's that wine in front of you tasting?

Which is why I think looking for the murderer is pointless.

Lets play for towns wincon!

You can scumhunt instead of saying that too...Which leads me to my second point

Hey shark_bait how does it feel to know that your scumbuddy murdered Ozle?

[Captain_Frisk]

Which is why I think looking for the murderer is pointless.

Lets play for towns wincon!

How many people would actively not want to find the murderer?  I posit that the answer to that question is exactly one.

[Eevee]

Which is why I think looking for the murderer is pointless.

Lets play for towns wincon!

How many people would actively not want to find the murderer?  I posit that the answer to that question is exactly one.

Uhm, the ones who prioritize the town's victory over their personal one? As I said, I will pursue any information I stumble upon regarding Ozle's sad demise, but first and foremost I'd like to lynch all the scum and see a town victory.

[Robz888]

The knife in the hand of Mr. Seat 17 could be a red herring, right? Mayeb the murderer planted it in Seat 17's hand.

Since Ozle might be dropping clues in his flavor paragraph, I should mention that I have read one of Agatha Christie's the Hercule Poirot novels--one of the most famous (and controversial) ones, The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. It's a terrific story, and Christie was almost kicked out of the society of mystery writers for it, because the solution was such a cheat.

But since the solution may be pertinent to our case, I think I'll have to spoil the novel for all of you: the narrator, who is not a suspect, is the murderer in the story.

[Insomniac]

The knife in the hand of Mr. Seat 17 could be a red herring, right? Mayeb the murderer planted it in Seat 17's hand.

Since Ozle might be dropping clues in his flavor paragraph, I should mention that I have read one of Agatha Christie's the Hercule Poirot novels--one of the most famous (and controversial) ones, The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. It's a terrific story, and Christie was almost kicked out of the society of mystery writers for it, because the solution was such a cheat.

But since the solution may be pertinent to our case, I think I'll have to spoil the novel for all of you: the narrator, who is not a suspect, is the murderer in the story.

Are you soft accusing Ozle?

[Voltgloss]

Vote: Robz888 for spoiling the ending of one of the best mystery novels of all time.  Yes, this is an unabashed policy lynch-vote.

Robz, have you read The Hollow (also by Agatha Christie)? 

[Robz888]

Vote: Robz888 for spoiling the ending of one of the best mystery novels of all time.  Yes, this is an unabashed policy lynch-vote.

Robz, have you read The Hollow (also by Agatha Christie)?

No, the ONLY Agatha Christie novel I've read was The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, but I seriously couldn't put that one down. I think I screamed aloud when I read the ending. If you're recommending The Hollow, I'll have to give it a try.

[Eevee]

I've read like 50 Agatha Christie murder mysteries, if thats of any relevance here.

[Robz888]

I think all we've learned is that the person in Seat 17 is Mrs. Peacock (you people have seen the movie Clue, I assume?)

[Eevee]

I think all we've learned is that the person in Seat 17 is Mrs. Peacock (you people have seen the movie Clue, I assume?)

I havent.  I dont watch very many movies, more of a tv-series kind of guy.
.. but I'm guessing that just means I missed the joke.

[jotheonah]

I think we can all agree that communism was a red herring all along.

[Voltgloss]

Vote: Robz888 for spoiling the ending of one of the best mystery novels of all time.  Yes, this is an unabashed policy lynch-vote.

Robz, have you read The Hollow (also by Agatha Christie)?

No, the ONLY Agatha Christie novel I've read was The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, but I seriously couldn't put that one down. I think I screamed aloud when I read the ending. If you're recommending The Hollow, I'll have to give it a try.

One of the most fascinating things about The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is that it was her second novel.  Dame Christie made a career of turning mystery novel conventions on their head - and started doing so early.

I do recommend The Hollow.  It's more about the underlying psychological drama than it is about logistics.  The least effective part of the book is Poirot's being shoehorned in towards the very end.  Christie herself went on record saying she thought she ruined the book by adding Poirot to it.  I've directed the stage adaptation (also by Christie), which has no Poirot in it; works better for his exclusion.

But that's not why I brought up The Hollow in this thread.  I brought it up because, if any Agatha Christie novel's twist ending seems appropriate to these circumstances, it's that one.

I'll include the twist here, but heavily spoilered.  (Which was the least you could have done with spoiling Roger Ackroyd!  Seriously man, that's what spoilers are FOR!)


Seriously, don't go further unless you really want to be spoiled on the ending.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                 
I'm dead serious.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                 
Last chance.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                 
Fine:  The victim is found having been shot, his wife standing over him with a gun in her hand.  But no one actually saw her shoot her husband.  The implication is of course that she's the most likely suspect - and so clearly CAN'T be the murderer.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                 
Plus, it's later discovered the gun in her hand wasn't the murder weapon.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                 
But she is the murderer.  She had two guns, shot her husband with one of them, and carefully hid it.  Then made sure she'd be found standing over him with the not-murder-weapon gun in hand, expecting those circumstances to clear her.  It almost worked.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                   
                                                                                               
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

[Captain_Frisk]

Like any of us can really resist the spoiler tags.

[Insomniac]

I think all we've learned is that the person in Seat 17 is Mrs. Peacock (you people have seen the movie Clue, I assume?)

I havent.  I dont watch very many movies, more of a tv-series kind of guy.
.. but I'm guessing that just means I missed the joke.

I have seen it, I don't remember it that well though, but if I recall the movie had 3 endings, one in which each person was guilty, Mrs. Peacock was the obvious one (the one holding the knife)

[Voltgloss]

Robz, was the entree one of your favorite recipes?

[Galzria]

My friends, so much has happened! The onion soufflè that Ozle has served us was nothing short of atrocious. I would not blame any of you for wishing him ill after being forced to palate that. However, I must believe that the actions and events of this night were not the act of a newly disgruntled dinner guest, but indeed were premeditated by someone who has held a grudge for some time.

The simple fact that we all sit here now, entirely unsure of those around us points to a very well thought out and planned murder. So it is with much apprehension that I suggest we look closely over the events of the last hour. Please feel free to add to this list of things we know:

Ozle was wealthy - indeed the richest in the land.
Ozle loved to read (although, to be frank, I suspect this is untrue. He was much to important to himself to waste time on books)
We were all invited to dinner, and with the exception of Axxle, arrived on time.
All of the lights went out
There was a bonechilling howl
Ozle is found dead with a bloody knife in the hand of seat 17

---

Am I missing anything?

[Robz888]

I am actually not going to read Volt's spoilertagged stuff because I might read the story. And that's absolutely what I should have done when I spoiled MfRA. Sorry! I would edit in spoiler tags now but I am disallowed, I assume.

Volt, while I made sure to heavily slurp the entree, it was not my favorite

[timchen]

I find eevee said lots of reasonable things here.

I've also read a few (~20) Agatha Christie's novels. They are all Chinese translated versions though!

One thing I think worth of discussing, or maybe Ozle can point this out: does our murderer know he is the murderer?