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Author Topic: Gray's Cards 1  (Read 4170 times)

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Graystripe77

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Gray's Cards 1
« on: July 25, 2012, 05:34:51 pm »
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Ok, I'm going to share the cards I plan to have in my fan expansion 1-by-1 for peer review, and hopefully make them better by doing so. These have each undergone a fair amount of playtesting, so they aren't purely just my ideas fed straight to you, they have been fixed, for the most part. Here's the first one:

Scribe: $2
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Name a card costing $5 or less. While this is in play, when you gain the named card(s), put in on your deck.

<Initially it was just 'name a card', but it felt just slightly too powerful>
Thoughts?

Fixed for KC nonsense.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 09:00:25 pm by Graystripe77 »
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Powerman

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 05:36:47 pm »
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Too strong (I think).  Look at Royal Seal's benefit which is only on-buy, not on-gain, and costs $5 (2 more than silver).
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Graystripe77

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 05:40:51 pm »
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Too strong (I think).  Look at Royal Seal's benefit which is only on-buy, not on-gain, and costs $5 (2 more than silver).

Yea, but this isn't a silver, it's an otherwise useless cantrip that you have to name a card BEFORE you buy it.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 05:48:31 pm »
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I think this card has the potential to generate a lot of AP, especially if you play several in a turn. Also, it doesn't seem to add much that Royal Seal and Watchtower don't do better.
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rinkworks

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 06:07:53 pm »
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How IS the AP on this, speaking of that?  I'm curious, because I was thinking of a card almost just like this, except I had +$1 instead of +1 Card, making it a little less of a harmless card.  Then again, that's probably too much like half a Royal Seal and therefore less interesting, so I dunno.
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ycz6

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 08:19:23 pm »
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I like it, seems pretty balanced to me. Amazing enabler for Bridge megaturn games, especially with KC.

Speaking of KC, how does this work with it? The card refers to "the named card," which might be confusing.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 10:08:21 pm »
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I like it, seems pretty balanced to me. Amazing enabler for Bridge megaturn games, especially with KC.

Speaking of KC, how does this work with it? The card refers to "the named card," which might be confusing.

You'd only get to stack for the first card you buy. Remember, KC plays the card three times, but the card isn't actually in play three times. This is the same interaction as when you KC a Goons.

EDIT: Then again, it seems like it was edited. So, my answer probably doesn't help much.  :-X
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:24:34 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 10:23:35 pm »
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I like it, seems pretty balanced to me. Amazing enabler for Bridge megaturn games, especially with KC.

Speaking of KC, how does this work with it? The card refers to "the named card," which might be confusing.

You'd only get to stack for the first card you buy. Remember, KC plays the card three times, but the card isn't actually in play three times. This is the same interaction as when you KC a Goons.

It's not the same.  With Goons, the effect is static -- when you buy anything, you get +1VP while that card is in play.  So yes, even if you KC-Goons, that's just one Goons in play so you get +1VP per card purchased.

But consider how this card would play out.  KC-Scribe.

First play: Name Scribe.
Second play: It tells you to name a card again.  Name Silver.
Third play: Again, it says to name a card.  Name Duchy, for some weird reason.

Now you've named three cards.  Does the "while this is in play" only work with one named card?  If not, does it only work with the first named card, or maybe the last?

As worded, it sounds to me like it should apply to all three named cards, because the "naming" of each are all attached to the same card which is in play.

I don't think the effect needs a "while this is in play" clause, and it's unclear how it would apply anyway.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 10:28:27 pm »
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I was thinking of the logistics in a way that, when the card gets replayed, it leaves the field of play and returns. I'm not sure there's anything that clearly states that. If it did work that way, the last play of Scribe is what would count, I believe. That's just my interpretation of the interaction, though.

eHalcyon

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 10:38:51 pm »
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I was thinking of the logistics in a way that, when the card gets replayed, it leaves the field of play and returns. I'm not sure there's anything that clearly states that. If it did work that way, the last play of Scribe is what would count, I believe. That's just my interpretation of the interaction, though.

Hm, interesting interpretation.  I'm not sure of that actually.  I can't think of any reason to think that a KC'd card "leaves the field of play", but it does kind of make sense to think of it that way.  But it doesn't even matter with other cards, as far as I can recall.

I think this is just another reason to remove the "while this is in play" wording.  It's not something super powerful that needs to be limited, and removing it would clear up confusion.
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UltimaPenguin

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 11:05:17 pm »
+1

I think its worth noting that the "While this is in play" phrasing is a convention that indicates a static effect, but on its own, it doesn't unambiguously say anything about how it interacts with KC/TR. I think there's a plausible initial interpretation of cards like Goons such that when you play TR-Goons the "While this is in play, do X" text gets executed twice, and thus sets up two distinct triggers (similar to how scheme or duration cards work) but where both effects just happen to also be conditional on whether or not the card is still in play.

It's the rulebook's Goons entry that concretely specifies how the card interacts with TR/KC. Also, it's not actually in the rulebook, but the meaning of the dividing line is supposed to be that it separates things that happen with different timings. For example, for Goons, the above-the-line stuff happens when the card is played (and thus can be duplicated by TR/KC) while the below-the-line stuff happens when some other condition is met (specifically, whenever a card is bought while its in play)

Your card has text that seems like you want to use alternate timing found on Goons/Highway/etc, but as phrased, clearly happens (and has to happen) as the card is played, so I don't think it really works the way you want mechanically.

It might be possible to make it work, but I would bite the bullet and just let it work with TR/KC and rebalance it appropriately if necessary. Then reword the "while this is in play" part to something like "whenever you gain X during this turn"
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 03:35:50 am by UltimaPenguin »
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DStu

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 04:09:38 am »
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@Penguin: First, I was thinking like "wtf, nonsense. Why should this not work as it works in at least 3 other cards (Goons, Highways, Princess)?".

But when you go through the card, I think Penguin is right. So what happens if you KC this card?
KC->Scribe:
You play Scribe the first time. You get 1c1a, you name a card costing less than $5
You play Scribe the second time. You get 1c1a, you name a card costing less than $5
You play Scribe the third time. You get 1c1a, you name a card costing less than $5
after that, you have one Scribe in play.

So even as this card is only in play once, you get to name 3 cards. The effect that get not multiplied is the "you may put it on deck"-part, but this is idempotent anyway.
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Schneau

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Re: Gray's Cards 1
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 09:23:17 am »
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Too strong (I think).  Look at Royal Seal's benefit which is only on-buy, not on-gain, and costs $5 (2 more than silver).

Quote
Royal Seal - While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card on top of your deck.

So, Royal Seal is actually on-gain, which may come into play with things like Border Village and Haggler.
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