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[play2draw]

Occasionally my friends and I play Dominion with the silliest setups. "All Victory Cards", "All Durations", "All Alchemy", and so on. All of these setups are quite terrible.

I look forward to the "All Reactions" game we can play

[Dartwolf]

How about something like this:

Forbidden Land (Victory Card)
Cost: $5
2 VP

----
When you buy this card, each player gains a curse card.

--

Hold onto your watchtowers!

[Epoch]

How about something like this:

Forbidden Land (Victory Card)
Cost: $5
2 VP

----
When you buy this card, each player gains a curse card.

--

Hold onto your watchtowers!

Seems like that would want to be priced at $6.  (Logic: Duchy costs $5 and gives you +3 VP.  This card gives you an expected +3 VP swing, and also dilutes your opponents' decks, so it is mostly superior to Duchy).

Alternately, it could be worth 1 VP instead of 2.

[WanderingWinder]

Except that the curses may be out when you turn to green, which is really when you want to be buying duchies. If you made it worth 1 VP, it's not that appealing - I mean, it dilutes your deck just as much as it does theirs, plus you wasted a primo $5 buy, all for a 2VP swing? Heck, I don't think I'd even want it too often at $4.
Or to be more on theme with the land being forbidden...

Forbidden Land (Victory)
Cost: $6
5 VP
WYGTC, gain a curse.

[Epoch]

Except that the curses may be out when you turn to green, which is really when you want to be buying duchies.

Sure.  But, then... just don't buy it.  I mean, you won't buy it when Curses are depleted if it costs $5, either, so why not make it cost $6 for when it's actually superior to Duchies, and in the (rarer) cases where it is inferior to Duchies, let people buy Duchies.

If you made it worth 1 VP, it's not that appealing - I mean, it dilutes your deck just as much as it does theirs, plus you wasted a primo $5 buy, all for a 2VP swing? Heck, I don't think I'd even want it too often at $4.

Then go with the $6 2 VP version instead of the $5 1 VP cost, I'm easy.  I'm just saying, it shouldn't be strictly-superior-to-Duchy-unless-your-opponent-is-holding-Watchtower-or-Curses-are-deleted.  Witch is strictly inferior to Smithy when Curses are depleted, that doesn't mean the correct cost for Witch is $3.

[Davio]

Occasionally my friends and I play Dominion with the silliest setups. "All Victory Cards", "All Durations", "All Alchemy", and so on. All of these setups are quite terrible.

I look forward to the "All Reactions" game we can play

I wonder if BMU + Moat is better than BMU...

[WanderingWinder]

Except that the curses may be out when you turn to green, which is really when you want to be buying duchies.

Sure.  But, then... just don't buy it.  I mean, you won't buy it when Curses are depleted if it costs $5, either, so why not make it cost $6 for when it's actually superior to Duchies, and in the (rarer) cases where it is inferior to Duchies, let people buy Duchies.

If you made it worth 1 VP, it's not that appealing - I mean, it dilutes your deck just as much as it does theirs, plus you wasted a primo $5 buy, all for a 2VP swing? Heck, I don't think I'd even want it too often at $4.

Then go with the $6 2 VP version instead of the $5 1 VP cost, I'm easy.  I'm just saying, it shouldn't be strictly-superior-to-Duchy-unless-your-opponent-is-holding-Watchtower-or-Curses-are-deleted.  Witch is strictly inferior to Smithy when Curses are depleted, that doesn't mean the correct cost for Witch is $3.

Sure, I don't disagree, I just don't think the $6 2 VP version will get bought very often at all either, especially in a way that's different from just buying a duchy basically at all. I just don't think I'd print such a card, given what else is established.

[WanderingWinder]

Occasionally my friends and I play Dominion with the silliest setups. "All Victory Cards", "All Durations", "All Alchemy", and so on. All of these setups are quite terrible.

I look forward to the "All Reactions" game we can play

I wonder if BMU + Moat is better than BMU...

It is, if you buy the moats at the right time. That is, for instance, if you hit $2 early. Also at some point if you don't rather than a silver for like 1 moat's worth. But don't hold your breath.

[Epoch]

Sure, I don't disagree, I just don't think the $6 2 VP version will get bought very often at all either, especially in a way that's different from just buying a duchy basically at all. I just don't think I'd print such a card, given what else is established.

I can agree with that.  Is there a way to jazz it up a little, make it more worthwhile?  "$6.  5 VP.  WYGTC, all players, including you, gain a Curse."

It creates a 4 point VP swing instead of a 3, slows you down more, slows your opponents down, but is a good buy rather than a bad one when Curses are depleted.

[chwhite]

Here's an uber-wacky possibility for a Reaction-only card (no, it's not an action!) that's mostly an effort to fix the idea of a one-shot Chapel (which apparently was tried but didn't work) but also inspired a little bit by Trade Route and Horse Traders:


Pilgrimage

$4
Reaction
When you buy this card, trash up to four cards from your hand.

When you gain or trash a card, you may reveal Pilgrimage and set it aside.  During your buy phase, you may choose to discard all your set-aside Pilgrimages for +1 Buy and +$1 per Pilgrimage.

...

No idea if it's balanced. 

[WanderingWinder]

Sure, I don't disagree, I just don't think the $6 2 VP version will get bought very often at all either, especially in a way that's different from just buying a duchy basically at all. I just don't think I'd print such a card, given what else is established.

I can agree with that.  Is there a way to jazz it up a little, make it more worthwhile?  "$6.  5 VP.  WYGTC, all players, including you, gain a Curse."

It creates a 4 point VP swing instead of a 3, slows you down more, slows your opponents down, but is a good buy rather than a bad one when Curses are depleted.

Possible. I think it's probably a little too good, obv. based on what I proposed above. But this is a different dynamic than that, and probably both could show up somewhere on the ladder in a balanced fashion. It would take playtesting to work out where this balance is.

[WanderingWinder]

Here's an uber-wacky possibility for a Reaction-only card (no, it's not an action!) that's mostly an effort to fix the idea of a one-shot Chapel (which apparently was tried but didn't work) but also inspired a little bit by Trade Route and Horse Traders:


Pilgrimage

$4
Reaction
When you buy this card, trash up to four cards from your hand.

When you gain or trash a card, you may reveal Pilgrimage and set it aside.  During your buy phase, you may choose to discard all your set-aside Pilgrimages for +1 Buy and +$1 per Pilgrimage.

...

No idea if it's balanced. 

Don't think this works as you intend as it's currently worded because you have to play your coppers to buy this thing, and then they aren't in your hand anymore. But maybe that is what you intended? Also, I'd guess that it's super broken because if you don't use them immediately, nothing bad happens to you, so you just let them hang out there until your late-game super-mega turn and then really rake.

[Dartwolf]

Sure, I don't disagree, I just don't think the $6 2 VP version will get bought very often at all either, especially in a way that's different from just buying a duchy basically at all. I just don't think I'd print such a card, given what else is established.

I can agree with that.  Is there a way to jazz it up a little, make it more worthwhile?  "$6.  5 VP.  WYGTC, all players, including you, gain a Curse."

It creates a 4 point VP swing instead of a 3, slows you down more, slows your opponents down, but is a good buy rather than a bad one when Curses are depleted.

This is actually in line with what I was thinking earlier, and what I think I actually wrote: each player (i.e., including you) gains a curse card.  I can't actually think of any other times when any card automatically gives you a curse.  Seems like fodder for card development, if you asked me.  @WanderingWinder - I think you're right.  It would definitely require some playtesting to work out the balance of price, VPs, and curse cards, but I think there is a balance in there somewhere.

[chwhite]

Here's an uber-wacky possibility for a Reaction-only card (no, it's not an action!) that's mostly an effort to fix the idea of a one-shot Chapel (which apparently was tried but didn't work) but also inspired a little bit by Trade Route and Horse Traders:


Pilgrimage

$4
Reaction
When you buy this card, trash up to four cards from your hand.

When you gain or trash a card, you may reveal Pilgrimage and set it aside.  During your buy phase, you may choose to discard all your set-aside Pilgrimages for +1 Buy and +$1 per Pilgrimage.

...

No idea if it's balanced. 

Don't think this works as you intend as it's currently worded because you have to play your coppers to buy this thing, and then they aren't in your hand anymore. But maybe that is what you intended? Also, I'd guess that it's super broken because if you don't use them immediately, nothing bad happens to you, so you just let them hang out there until your late-game super-mega turn and then really rake.

Yes, that is what I intended.  The idea is that its trashing power is actually pretty weak in the opening turns, and is best in the midgame, say if you have something like Militia-Silver-Copper-Estate-Estate.  I don't know if that's the right way to do a card like this, it's probably not, but at least theoretically I like how it provides a contrast to Mint (which gets rid of cards in play instead). 

And, yeah, of course the best way to use them would be to buy a few and save up for a megaturn.  But I don't see how that would be "super-broken"- they're only worth a Copper each (okay, the first one's actually worth an Herbalist); I don't see how that's much more powerful than a big Native Village mat.

[WanderingWinder]

Okay, maybe not super-broken, but they work exceptionally well with a number of strategies - bridge, Goons, conspirator chains, Bank, any number of things that can produce mega mega coins. And since they don't take actions to play, that makes them significantly better than many many other sources of buy. I still have mega doubts, but okay, it would take testing.

[jsh357]

Funny card I came up with that would fit the Hinterlands theme:

Fool's Gold

$1
Treasure
Worth $0

When you buy this card, place it on top of your opponent's deck.  (If you have more than one opponent, place it on the deck of your choice)

---

I have always wished there was an alternative to Curse, and something akin to this would be amusing.  The basic appeal would be that it's cheap to purchase (for turns when you have crappy hands) but it can also interrupt your opponent in the right situation.  With +Buys it might be a little ridiculous though.  I haven't tested it (Only played Dominion on Isotropic) but the idea intrigues me.

[Dartwolf]

While I like the idea of stalling your opponent somehow with something other than curses, I have a few issues with the card as proposed.  First there's the issue of having a card that costs $1 - I think there should never be such a card, since it would be such a hot seller with cards like remake, upgrade, and bridge relatively early in the game.  Poof - there goes one pile and only two more need to go before the game's over.  I also think it's a little too powerful to cost only $1.  I think it's probably more in the $2-3 range in terms of value.  Plus it is effectively one of those one-hitter cards Donald has said don't sell well with his co-developers.

I do like the idea of a treasure that curses your opponents though.  Maybe something like this:

Spoils
Treasure Card
Cost: $4
Worth $2

When you buy this card, one opponent of your choosing gains a curse card.

What do you think?

[WanderingWinder]

Targeted attacks aren't gonna fly.

[DG]

When you buy this card, one opponent of your choosing gains a curse card.

I think Donald avoided attacks that single out opponents, just to stop politics from interfering with the game. Very wise I think.

[Dartwolf]

I hear that.  Would upping the price to $5 but changing it so that all other players gain a curse balance it out?

[WanderingWinder]

Well, you'd need to up it to 5 anyway, as silver-plus-a-benefit basically doesn't make for fun games at $4 (Donald has said this too), as silver is supposed to often be a competing factor at the $4 price point. Also, making it all other players instead of one of your choice doesn't really mess with the power level - it's the same in 2p, and in multiplayer, your original is awkwardly weird.
I think that that probably wouldn't be too strong at $5, but it does compare rather favourably with Royal Seal and Stash.

[Dartwolf]

You think it compares that favorably, eh?

That actually raises another question I had been thinking about when I saw the description of the new expansion set.  How important/powerful do we really think these when-you-buy-it, one-time effects will be?  In particular, how much more should a card cost if it has one additional relatively minor benefit (like "all other players gain a curse card")?  In my mind, the Spoils card I proposed is just about on level with Stash or Royal Seal because the somewhat lesser benefits of a Royal Seal, for example, can be experienced regularly throughout the remainder of the game.  The one-time cursing is just a one-time cursing.

[WanderingWinder]

There's no question in my mind. Really, how often do you get to use a Royal Seal's ability (sometimes you want to buy provinces with it...)? 3 times? Giving a curse is much better than getting an extra play out of a gold or something, I think almost certainly more than twice as good. The more times you can use that Seal, the more times that curse is annoying your opponent, clogging his deck.

[Epoch]

Playing with the concept of a small, poor, sentinel  border estate:

Frontier
Victory - Reaction
1 VP
When your opponent plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do so, set aside this card.  At the beginning of your next turn, for every card set aside this way, +1 Card +$1, and then discard the card set aside.

Wording probably needs work.

[tlloyd]

While I like the idea of stalling your opponent somehow with something other than curses, I have a few issues with the card as proposed.  First there's the issue of having a card that costs $1 - I think there should never be such a card, since it would be such a hot seller with cards like remake, upgrade, and bridge relatively early in the game. 

Actually, a $1 card would really weaken Upgrade and Remake. You want your coppers trashed and gone so your deck gets small, not turned into marginally-more-powerful cards that still leave your deck bloated.