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Author Topic: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?  (Read 86500 times)

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DG

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2011, 11:28:12 am »
0

I suspect that some of these on-purchase effects could be quite strong, since they are one-time events. On the the other hand, none of the cheap cards are likely to have escalating effects or else they could be exploited too easily with a talisman, bridge, or ironworks.
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rinkworks

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2011, 11:53:57 am »
0

A while back, Donald mentioned he had a one-shot themed set for a while, but "people" didn't like it, because they like to keep the cards they buy.  I wonder if this is a way to keep the one-shot idea while still letting people keep their purchases.
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jonts26

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2011, 03:41:13 pm »
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I know it gets mixed reactions but I just have to say I love the game descriptions and this one is probably my favorite yet.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2011, 04:17:22 pm »
0

I know it gets mixed reactions but I just have to say I love the game descriptions and this one is probably my favorite yet.

I'm going to have to weigh in with a negative reaction to ensure that the reaction to the game descriptions is indeed mixed.  Good thing that I only need to hear about it while waiting for the set to come out.
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chwhite

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2011, 06:11:17 pm »
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I normally love the game descriptions (Prosperity was my favorite) but this one isn't quite up to Donald's usual standards IMO.

Hopefully the cards will be, though!
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2011, 06:24:31 pm »
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My reaction to the description text is mixed, at least compared with other mixed reactions; it's slightly more positive compared to chwhite's, and maybe a bit less positive compared to jonts's.

/to get the obvious joke out of the way.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2011, 03:57:44 am »
+1

Tell us what you think
Reaction - $2

When you read the description text for Dominion: Hinterlands, reaveal this card from your hand and tell everybody what you think about the description text, at least when compared to other description texts.
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2011, 01:11:55 pm »
0

Tell us what you think
Reaction - $2

When you read the description text for Dominion: Hinterlands, reaveal this card from your hand buy this card, tell everybody what you think about the description text, at least when compared to other description texts.

/also obvious.
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tlloyd

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2011, 02:39:15 pm »
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"WYGTC, you may gain (a silver)(another copy of this card)(an estate)(a duchy)"

That seems problematic...
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Epoch

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2011, 02:40:39 pm »
0

"WYGTC, you may gain (a silver)(another copy of this card)(an estate)(a duchy)"

That seems problematic...

"When it is possible to buy this card, the game ends when any two card supplies have been depleted."
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2011, 02:57:30 pm »
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Yep. I clearly wasn't thinking that through. I want the talisman effect, but you either need to make it buy, or put in a clause that makes it trigger only once per 'natural' gain.

tlloyd

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2011, 05:42:38 pm »
0

Oh yeah. So 20 Actions, 3 Treasures and 3 Victory. 3 Of which are also Reactions, but I don't think we can assume that they will all be Action-Reaction type cards.

It seems like the wording is intentionally ambiguous, which suggests to me that we will see some new dual-type like Treasure-Reaction or Victory-Reaction.

Coincidentally, one of my earliest card ideas was for a Treasure-Reaction called Bribe (I know others have used that title for their own card ideas). The idea was to have a weak treasure that you can choose to give to an attacking player in exchange for avoiding the effects of the attack. I like the idea because it gives the attacking player a one-time benefit (he gets to put the bribe card right into his hand to play during his buy phase) for playing the attack card, but in the long run has the potential to slow him down by adding what amounts to a copper to his deck.

The card had problems--the most obvious of which is that nobody wants to buy a copper just for the chance to avoid one attack. But if the treasure was worth much (even $2 perhaps), then it wouldn't have the desired effect of diluting the attacker's deck. So in order to induce people to buy the Bribe, it had to provide some benefit when you buy it, but not later on when you had it in your hand. I tried lots of different when-you-buy benefits but didn't like any of them and eventually gave up on the card. And now here comes a set of cards with when-you-buy benefits as the dominant theme and which possibly includes a Treasure-Reaction. I'm eager to see what Donald came up with, and if Bribe was anywhere in the ballpark.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 01:13:17 am by tlloyd »
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guided

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2011, 06:08:49 pm »
0

I'll duplicate the gist of my BGG commentary:

-Unless there are single-type reactions, then the only dual-type cards (among the Action/Treasure/Victory/Reaction types) are the Reaction cards.
-But maybe there are single-type reactions! They could give some on-gain benefit and then react to something that happens all the time (like Watchtower's reaction effect).
-In any case, I'm hoping for at least one Reaction/Treasure or Reaction/Victory card.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2011, 07:08:26 pm »
0

I just checked and the Seaside and Prosperity texts don't seem to mention anything about components, so it's possible that this set will have some components (perhaps tokens, as we've seen for Pirate Ship, Trade Route, Embargo, and the VP tokens)?
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Donald X.

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2011, 09:24:28 pm »
0

I just checked and the Seaside and Prosperity texts don't seem to mention anything about components, so it's possible that this set will have some components (perhaps tokens, as we've seen for Pirate Ship, Trade Route, Embargo, and the VP tokens)?
Hinterlands has no tokens or mats or anything, just cards, and thus the MSRP is $5 less than for those other sets.
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jonts26

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2011, 09:47:37 pm »
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Hinterlands has no tokens or mats or anything, just cards, and thus the MSRP is $5 less than for those other sets.

I guess that rules out all the 'when you gain this card, +n VP tokens' ideas.
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2011, 01:16:53 am »
0

Oh yeah. So 20 Actions, 3 Treasures and 3 Victory. 3 Of which are also Reactions, but I don't think we can assume that they will all be Action-Reaction type cards.

It seems like the wording is intentionally ambiguous, which suggests to me that we will see some new dual-type like Treasure-Reaction or Victory-Reaction.

Coincidentally, one of my earliest card ideas was for a Treasure-Reaction called Bribe (I know others have used that title for their own card ideas). The idea was to have a weak treasure that you can choose to give to an attacking player in exchange for avoiding the effects of the attack. I like the idea because it gives the attacking player a one-time benefit (he gets to put the bribe card right into his hand to play during his buy phase) for playing the attack card, but in the long run has the potential to slow him down by adding what amounts to a copper to his deck.

The card had problems--the most obvious of which is that nobody wants to buy a copper just for the chance to avoid one attack. But if the treasure was worth much (even $2 perhaps), then it wouldn't have the desired effect of diluting the attacker's deck. So in order to induce people to buy the Bribe, it had to provide some benefit when you buy it, but not later on when you had it in your hand. I tried lots of different when-you-buy benefits but didn't like any of them and eventually gave up on the card. And now here comes a set of cards with when-you-buy benefits as the dominant theme and which possibly includes a Treasure-Reaction. I'm eager to see what Donald came up with, and if Bribe was anywhere in the ballpark.

Hrm, for your consideration:

Bribe, $4, Treasure/Reaction

Big $2
----
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this card.  If you do, you are unaffected by the attack, and your attacker gains +$2.

--

I don't think it should dilute the opponent's deck, as that is--again--an attack reflection, something Donald has said time and again "no" to, vociferously.
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tlloyd

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2011, 03:42:36 am »
0

I don't think it should dilute the opponent's deck, as that is--again--an attack reflection, something Donald has said time and again "no" to, vociferously.

I appreciate the feedback, but Bribe is not even close to an attack reflection. The card was specifically designed to avoid the problems inherent in such reactions. It provides the attacker an immediate benefit, but with potential long-term downside. Because you have to give up the card to use the reaction, you would likely choose to suffer most attacks and use the reaction only to protect what seems likely to be an excellent next turn. And of course, if you also play attack cards, there is a chance that the Bribe could end up back in your deck in the future. This is not nearly as imbalanced and attack-discouraging as a simple reflect reaction.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 03:45:00 am by tlloyd »
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Lhurgoyf

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2011, 06:03:42 am »
0

I have an idea for a Treasure/Reaction Card:

Big $2
__________
When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this card.
If you do, play it and +1 Card.
This stays in play until the end of your next turn.



hm, having 5 of them in your hand would be a bit imbalanced.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 06:24:31 am by Lhurgoyf »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2011, 10:30:54 am »
0

Big $2
----
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this card.  If you do, you are unaffected by the attack, and your attacker gains +$2.

Under most circumstances, I would not give my opponent a free $2 just to protect myself from their attack. Can you imagine it in a 4-player game? Free Provinces for the attacker!

Big $2
__________
When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this card.
If you do, play it and +1 Card.
This stays in play until the end of your next turn.

So, the idea is that you get the $2 benefit of the card on your next turn? I don't think the rules define what happens when you play a Treasure card any other time than during your own buy phase.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2011, 11:11:54 am »
0

Big $2
__________
When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this card.
If you do, play it and +1 Card.
This stays in play until the end of your next turn.

So, the idea is that you get the $2 benefit of the card on your next turn? I don't think the rules define what happens when you play a Treasure card any other time than during your own buy phase.

I'm sure it would be covered in the FAQ for the card, and I'm also pretty sure it would work exactly like when you play Treasure cards during your action phase because of Black Market... Only a little bit earlier.
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tlloyd

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2011, 02:28:22 pm »
0

Big $2
----
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this card.  If you do, you are unaffected by the attack, and your attacker gains +$2.

Under most circumstances, I would not give my opponent a free $2 just to protect myself from their attack. Can you imagine it in a 4-player game? Free Provinces for the attacker!

There is another potential scaling problem from multiple reveals (say it's a 3-player game with one province left, you have a narrow lead over player 3 and player 2 is far behind, and player 2 plays an attack card--you could help him buy the last province by revealing this multiple times) and from a player who plays multiple attacks (you wouldn't want to let someone get +$8 just by playing four torturers).
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Kirian

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2011, 05:03:33 pm »
0

Big $2
----
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this card.  If you do, you are unaffected by the attack, and your attacker gains +$2.

Under most circumstances, I would not give my opponent a free $2 just to protect myself from their attack. Can you imagine it in a 4-player game? Free Provinces for the attacker!

Oh wow, hadn't thought of that at all.  Yeah.  That would not work.

Quote
Big $2
__________
When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this card.
If you do, play it and +1 Card.
This stays in play until the end of your next turn.

So, the idea is that you get the $2 benefit of the card on your next turn? I don't think the rules define what happens when you play a Treasure card any other time than during your own buy phase.

Why not just use the set-aside mechanic from Horse Traders?
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Detonator

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2011, 06:09:04 pm »
0

Quote
Big $2
__________
When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this card.
If you do, play it and +1 Card.
This stays in play until the end of your next turn.

So, the idea is that you get the $2 benefit of the card on your next turn? I don't think the rules define what happens when you play a Treasure card any other time than during your own buy phase.

Why not just use the set-aside mechanic from Horse Traders?

That would work, but I'd rather they not reuse the same reaction mechanics from earlier cards, even if the non-reaction part of the card is different.
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Lhurgoyf

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Re: Any Gossip About Fall 2011 Expansion?
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2011, 11:53:53 am »
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Oh, I didn't think about a card being in my play making money for my opponent. I just thought, you play it in front of you so you have the benefit of +1 Card now and money on your next turn...

when thinking about it, it is just too near the Horse Traders.
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