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Author Topic: KC + KC + 3  (Read 9319 times)

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matt979

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KC + KC + 3
« on: July 20, 2012, 06:07:31 pm »
+1

Suppose three players agree to a variant in which each player's starting deck has five cards: KC, KC, and three cards of that player's choosing. If the players choose nine distinct kingdom cards then the board is those nine plus a tenth chosen at random; if they choose fewer than nine distinct, then enough are chosen at random to make a full board.  Starting hands are chosen simultaneously, and then it is decided at random who goes first.

Which cards would you have to exclude to make this game interesting? (For example, Bridge would have to be excluded, otherwise the first player just wins immediately.) Having implemented those exclusions, what starting hand do you choose?

I have a few ideas, but for every possible "you would obviously begin with X" solution, one can tweak the exclusions to make configuration X impossible (at least if the reason why X is so good involves overwhelming first-mover advantage).
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gman314

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 06:34:48 pm »
0

So would KC not be in the supply? Because if it was, you wouldn't need a tenth card if the nine chosen cards were distinct.
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 02:01:55 am »
0

Monument, Cursers, Possession, Saboteur, Pirate Ship, Grand Market...........
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ehunt

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 02:27:48 am »
0

Pirate ship would be so funny. P1 plays 9 pirate ships,gets lots of tokens, probably wins. P2 plays 9 pirate ships, definitely gets 7 tokens, rpobably gets no more, but that's fine, cuz KC + PS still is province or colony. P3 plays 9 pirate ships, gets... nothing. Just sits there, looking sad, every turn.
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 02:29:33 am »
0

Pirate ship would be so funny. P1 plays 9 pirate ships,gets lots of tokens, probably wins. P2 plays 9 pirate ships, definitely gets 7 tokens, rpobably gets no more, but that's fine, cuz KC + PS still is province or colony. P3 plays 9 pirate ships, gets... nothing. Just sits there, looking sad, every turn.
Would be even more funny if there was no +buy.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

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Mad, I tell you.

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Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

eHalcyon

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 02:32:24 am »
0

Pirate ship would be so funny. P1 plays 9 pirate ships,gets lots of tokens, probably wins. P2 plays 9 pirate ships, definitely gets 7 tokens, rpobably gets no more, but that's fine, cuz KC + PS still is province or colony. P3 plays 9 pirate ships, gets... nothing. Just sits there, looking sad, every turn.

But if starting decks are just KC+KC+3, you're not going to be hitting any treasure.  Unless I'm misreading the OP?
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 02:34:35 am »
0

Pirate ship would be so funny. P1 plays 9 pirate ships,gets lots of tokens, probably wins. P2 plays 9 pirate ships, definitely gets 7 tokens, rpobably gets no more, but that's fine, cuz KC + PS still is province or colony. P3 plays 9 pirate ships, gets... nothing. Just sits there, looking sad, every turn.

But if starting decks are just KC+KC+3, you're not going to be hitting any treasure.  Unless I'm misreading the OP?
You are right. This is easy to block; just do not buy treasure.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2012, 02:43:52 am »
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But if you start with KC, KC, PS, PS, PS you have to either buy treasure or wait to be able to get anywhere.
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 02:44:57 am »
0

But if you start with KC, KC, PS, PS, PS you have to either buy treasure or wait to be able to get anywhere.
Not if there are other sources of money.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2012, 02:45:45 am »
0

Oh, and Masquerade's going to need to be banned and probably all discard(/put back on deck) attacks too.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 02:47:04 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 02:46:17 am »
+1

But if you start with KC, KC, PS, PS, PS you have to either buy treasure or wait to be able to get anywhere.
Not if there are other sources of money.

There are no sources of money costing $0 other than Copper.
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 02:46:42 am »
0

Oh, and Masquerade's going to need to be band and probably all discard(/put back on deck) attacks too.
Uhhh, why?
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 02:50:59 am »
0

Oh, and Masquerade's going to need to be band and probably all discard(/put back on deck) attacks too.
Uhhh, why?

Because P1 starting with KC, KC, Cantrip, Cantrip, Masq kills 3 cards from P2's deck immediately.

Because P1 playing a discard attack on turn 1 is a pretty huge first turn advantage.
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Morgrim7

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2012, 02:52:57 am »
+1

Oh, and Masquerade's going to need to be band and probably all discard(/put back on deck) attacks too.
Uhhh, why?

Because P1 starting with KC, KC, Cantrip, Cantrip, Masq kills 3 cards from P2's deck immediately.

Because P1 playing a discard attack on turn 1 is a pretty huge first turn advantage.
You are right. Wow, I should take a nap.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2012, 02:54:35 am »
0

Although thinking about it, discard attacks aren't too bad (other than Torturer). It just forces the other players to start with a Cantrip +draw as one of their starting cards and hold on to KC, KC, Cantrip +draw.
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chesskidnate

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2012, 03:24:52 am »
0

Might need to worry about highway-ironworks/workshop, could cause first turn KC-KC-Highway-Ironworks-Ironworks(gaining 2-3 KC's, 2 Highways and 2-3 ironworks), my guess is both Ironworks and Highway may need to be prohibited.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2012, 03:29:45 am »
+1

KC-Highway only reduces costs by 1.
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Davio

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2012, 03:34:25 am »
0

Torturer?
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Grujah

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2012, 05:43:38 am »
0

Although thinking about it, discard attacks aren't too bad (other than Torturer). It just forces the other players to start with a Cantrip +draw as one of their starting cards and hold on to KC, KC, Cantrip +draw.

Discard + Saboteur/Swindler \o/


I guess something like Uni + Scheme + Expand would be cool.
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Kirian

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2012, 11:37:31 am »
0

Although thinking about it, discard attacks aren't too bad (other than Torturer). It just forces the other players to start with a Cantrip +draw as one of their starting cards and hold on to KC, KC, Cantrip +draw.

But start player is chosen after cards are selected.  So everyone would have to take a discard attack and a +Cards, just as a defense against going last.  Torturer of course would be out of the question.  Grujah's right about Sab/Swindler with a discard attack.

I think no matter what you do, if you prohibit Power Card A, suddenly Power Card B becomes just as bad.  Soon enough you're banning everything but Chancellor and Secret Chamber...
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Cuzz

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2012, 01:14:38 pm »
0

KC-Highway only reduces costs by 1.

Which is enough to ironworks highways. So you gain the rest on turn 2, draw your deck on turn 3, and ironworks all the vp.
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dghunter79

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2012, 07:29:26 pm »
+3

Why ban any attacks? Everyone can choose to begin with a Moat in hand.

Titandrake

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2012, 08:51:48 pm »
0

All of this countering and counter-countering is reminding me of 3 card blind...

(3 Card Blind is a Magic forum-game where each player submits a 3 card deck. Each deck plays against each other deck with perfect information, meaning all cards revealed. Wins/losses/ties are assigned points, whichever deck earns the most points wins. There is a surprisingly deep metagame.)

So maybe KC + KC + 3 cards is the Dominion version of 3 card blind. Except you have to include perfect or worst possible shuffle luck to make the results deterministic.
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Powerman

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2012, 09:10:43 pm »
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I'll go KC-KC-Possession-Possession-Possession :)
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jonts26

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Re: KC + KC + 3
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2012, 09:17:02 pm »
0

I'll go KC-KC-Possession-Possession-Possession :)

And I'll go with KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument.

And I ban colonies.
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