Topic: Dilemma (Read 7544 times)

popsofctown · « **on:** July 16, 2012, 10:58:49 pm »

I told my friend Dominion is a good game. But now he just drew a Familiar's 2p, with his potion missing the reshuffle, and the only available trasher as Trade Route.

How do I convince him Dominion is a good game after this debacle ends?

And he's player 2.

Voltgloss · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:11:24 pm »

Explain veto mode. And then explain how some cards favor the first player. And how, as second player, those are good cards to veto.

Obviously I'm talking about the powerhouse that is Trade Route.

popsofctown · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:23:48 pm »

I lol'ed so hard.

I hate veto mode myself

Beyond Awesome · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:47:10 am »

You and your friend should play real life games first and save potions for later.

jomini · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2012, 01:25:24 am »

Apologize profusely for starting with alchemy and play with some simple sets. You really want to have a few boring-ish games early on so that concepts like attacks, trashing, tempo, etc. can gel individually. Alchemy is a great expansion, it just has a STEEP curve for newbies.

ftl · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2012, 01:37:08 am »

Start with base, and not with Alchemy.

rinkworks · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2012, 10:21:38 am »

It might be too late.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2721.0

Kuildeous · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2012, 10:43:58 am »

Something to consider is that a newbie game doesn't really need to have 10 Kingdom cards. You could teach many of the concepts just by having Village, Smithy, Market, and Caravan. It'll be a boring-as-shit game for you, but it'll all be fresh for the newbie. He can use these cards to grasp the concept of actions, buys, coins, cards, and even durations.

I hesitate to include a trasher. Perhaps that could be demonstrated after the game. Take that player's deck and remove all the Coppers and greens. Now have that person shuffle and draw a few hands to appreciate density. Then when you break out the big guns, he'll be more interested in those cards that trash (and possibly learn why Develop is not as cool as it might seem).

popsofctown · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2012, 01:02:03 pm »

Some people were able to guess better than others it was an iso game. But yeah, set kingdoms may have been smart.

shMerker · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:56:36 pm »

Quote from: jomini on July 17, 2012, 01:25:24 am

Apologize profusely for starting with alchemy and play with some simple sets. You really want to have a few boring-ish games early on so that concepts like attacks, trashing, tempo, etc. can gel individually. Alchemy is a great expansion, it just has a STEEP curve for newbies.

My first games were on Iso with everything, but when I finally bought a base set I got an Alchemy thrown in free and yeah, I agree that it adds a lot of difficulty to teaching the game to others.

Morgrim7 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:19:30 pm »

I learned the hard way never start someone out with Alchemy. Or Cornucopia. I doesn't end out well. Also, avoid Alchemy with Tournament in for starting someone off. Its not pretty.

ftl · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:28:09 pm »

Is there any good reason NOT to start someone off with, like something simple like the recommended first game from the base set? Seriously, Dominion is a pretty complex game, there's no need at all to start with every little option in the very first game.

shMerker · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:41:41 pm »

Yeah for me first games are always "first game" now. I also make sure that when I do start changing cards in subsequent rounds I leave in some cards from the last one so that there are fewer new things to learn at a time. Also it lets everybody apply some of what they learned immediately.

Ozle · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:33:15 am »

I always start off with the base one.

Then throw in some curses (witch)

Then throw in some trashing (chapel)

Afte rthat its pretty plain sailing!

Morgrim7 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:34:20 am »

Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:33:15 am

I always start off with the base one.

Then throw in some curses (witch)

Then throw in some trashing (chapel)

Afte rthat its pretty plain sailing!

So you would introduce Alchemy on game 4? I would wait until game 10.

Ozle · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:35:54 am »

Quote from: Morgrim7 on July 18, 2012, 07:34:20 am

Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:33:15 am
I always start off with the base one.

Then throw in some curses (witch)

Then throw in some trashing (chapel)

Afte rthat its pretty plain sailing!
So you would introduce Alchemy on game 4? I would wait until game 10.

I'd hide the box of Alchemy for as long as I possibly could!

Morgrim7 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:36:53 am »

Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:35:54 am

Quote from: Morgrim7 on July 18, 2012, 07:34:20 am
Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:33:15 am
I always start off with the base one.

Then throw in some curses (witch)

Then throw in some trashing (chapel)

Afte rthat its pretty plain sailing!
So you would introduce Alchemy on game 4? I would wait until game 10.

I'd hide the box of Alchemy for as long as I possibly could!

And never introduce the horrors of Possession?

Ozle · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:23:40 am »

Quote from: Morgrim7 on July 18, 2012, 07:36:53 am

Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:35:54 am
Quote from: Morgrim7 on July 18, 2012, 07:34:20 am
Quote from: Ozle on July 18, 2012, 07:33:15 am
I always start off with the base one.

Then throw in some curses (witch)

Then throw in some trashing (chapel)

Afte rthat its pretty plain sailing!
So you would introduce Alchemy on game 4? I would wait until game 10.

I'd hide the box of Alchemy for as long as I possibly could!
And never introduce the horrors of Possession?

After I have tought them the basics, they usually get hooked, go away and discover things on thier own.

Then they come back to me a few days/weeks/months/years later and say "Look at this cool new card". And I then show them the error of thier ways

shMerker · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2012, 12:36:55 pm »

Some people really like possession. It's just kind of satisfying in a very basic way to get to use your opponent's cards, logistical and strategic consequences be damned.

Morgrim7 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:59:27 am »

Quote from: shMerker on July 18, 2012, 12:36:55 pm

Some people really like possession. It's just kind of satisfying in a very basic way to get to use your opponent's cards, logistical and strategic consequences be damned.

It is odd, some people hate this card for the same reason.

shMerker · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:17:58 pm »

Well I also understand the people who always veto it or dump their possession cards in the trash with no remorse. It's potentially confusing, tends to drag out the game, raises really basic questions about how you manage the basic mechanics of it (do I walk over to the other side of the table? Do I get to hold my opponent's cards or should I just tell him what to do?) and essentially just turns everything backwards. It can turn the game into some kind of bizarro nega-Dominion where the goal is to get the worst cards. If I wanted to play the exact opposite of Dominion I'd probably be playing some other game.

popsofctown · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2012, 01:13:33 pm »

The goal of Dominion IS to get the worst cards. Provinces don't make you any money..

shMerker · « **Reply #22 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:27:10 pm »

Well, yeah, the long-term goal remains the same. It's just that the immediate method gets reversed.

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Author Topic: Dilemma (Read 7544 times)