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[timchen]

I should add, I now think you actually agree with me in secret that my case on you makes tons of sense but just because of your role you have to fake it and say you think it makes no sense.

I now have no reason not to lynch you. You are either scum or a illogical townie. Either case I would be happy to get rid off.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I see we agree here. If you flipped scum then my case has merit. I would be happier if that is the case. Also you are more logical in this case so you can be happier too.

But if you were town apparent my case wouldn't have merit. And I have just wasted my whole time. And further we are one step closer to losing. No one is happy.

Hey, to that I can mostly agree - EXCEPT, that unless we can lynch a mafiosi today, a mislynch on anybody BUT me means gameover, since your vote on me tomorrow will hand Mafia the win... SO, if town is to have any chance of winning this game they need to do 1 of 2 things:

1. Lynch Mafia today.

Or

2. Lynch me.

[timchen]

We probably need to lynch you. I have decided I am not going to move my vote elsewhere today. And I really doubt that you can make the rest of the townies to vote on a single target.

[Galzria]

I should add, I now think you actually agree with me in secret that my case on you makes tons of sense but just because of your role you have to fake it and say you think it makes no sense.

I now have no reason not to lynch you. You are either scum or a illogical townie. Either case I would be happy to get rid off.

There's a difference between a wrong argument (which mine was), and a bad argument (which yours is).

[timchen]

If you were town then my argument is a bad argument. But yours is proved wrong.

[timchen]

Galz, now you should work on getting the town to vote for someone you deem as scummy instead of talking with me further. Otherwise in no time I am going to start accusing you scummy because you are leading to no lynch.

[Galzria]

If you were town then my argument is a bad argument. But yours is proved wrong.

I've admitted to it being wrong. It's why I've said for the past like... 5 pages that I'm sure you're town.

[Galzria]

Galz, now you should work on getting the town to vote for someone you deem as scummy instead of talking with me further. Otherwise in no time I am going to start accusing you scummy because you are leading to no lynch.

You can't claim that, I'm on the wagon that is at L-1!

[timchen]

Yes. I know. How sad. I don't think I can convince anybody. A no lynch today means I will be dead tonight. And tomorrow you can take along your minion PPS to wipe out the rest of our town.

Shall I call it an interesting day? Talking with you today has taken me from being sure that you are mafia, then not so sure, then ok, maybe different people can have different reasonings and there are misunderstandings as well, then OMG you mentioned MII, I took 2 hours reading it, and found that the case is just not applicable; while we have been discussing how our current case is like... for infinitely long? Then I am forced to conclude that today I was again confused by your random arguments. The MII comment by you is just a random comment that went too far into the unbelievable zone that draws me back to the beginning.

[Galzria]

Yes. I know. How sad. I don't think I can convince anybody. A no lynch today means I will be dead tonight. And tomorrow you can take along your minion PPS to wipe out the rest of our town.

Shall I call it an interesting day? Talking with you today has taken me from being sure that you are mafia, then not so sure, then ok, maybe different people can have different reasonings and there are misunderstandings as well, then OMG you mentioned MII, I took 2 hours reading it, and found that the case is just not applicable; while we have been discussing how our current case is like... for infinitely long? Then I am forced to conclude that today I was again confused by your random arguments. The MII comment by you is just a random comment that went too far into the unbelievable zone that draws me back to the beginning.

I think the M-II comment is quite applicable in that all breadcrumbs must be called out, period.

However, leaving that aside, M-II was one of my favorite Mafia games so far. It's the only normal game I've gotten to be scum in (not commenting on this or any other live games). How do you think of my play there in comparison to here? Honestly, compare the two, and what do you think?

[Young Nick]

I'm still alive, I promise! Real life has been busy lately. In fact, I hate to say it, but sometimes I am playing board games with my friends instead of attending to this game. I keep trying to convince my friend that forum mafia is better than quick-play mafia (where days last 5-10 minutes).

In other news, 7 Wonders with Leaders is surprisingly fun, and I love Settlers with Cities & Knights but few of my friends are willing to brave the learning curve and play Dominion with me. I'll post as I can this weekend. Still catching up.

[timchen]

Galz you may be disappointed, as I didn't get to read every post. I searched through Robz posts (since you said he fakeclaimed doctor) and skim through the posts near by when it looks like something important.

I don't find your post in that game particularly scummy. However I do find Robz's quite scummy. He switches too many targets. However, if I were in the game I would still vote for ins d3 though. His early vote on Robz that does not end the game meant one of them is scum. And scums wouldn't usually want to get on the same wagon d1 is a strong reasoning for me. Also, as a townie voting for Robz early in d3... well that is just too dangerous. So if I were in that game you will have me fooled. I am not sure how much that is acheived by some sort of newbie play though.

One thing I find in common between the current game and MII: at some point you have been commented by the town generally you have a high town read. But we don't see that in MIV and MVI. You know your alliances in those games; that does not speak well for you in this one.

It seems to me that in a game you are town you probably play less carefully so there are scummy things to be caught. In a game you are mafia you then be more careful. And your tone some how gives people a town feeling. That is why in this game and in MII people have commented that you are pretty towny.

You actually tried to change that in this game d1 by voting for the guy you suspect second.

So I would say, meta suggested that you are mafia in this current game.

[Galzria]

Yeah, about that whole "appearing town" thing - I tried it in M-III and got my ass handed to me D1 as town. After that I decided that the best way to play town was scummy, and it worked a little in M-IV, and well enough in M-VI...

Ok, I wasn't INTENTIONALLY scummy, but I wasn't as careful either. Here in M-VII,, well you're right. I backed off things and slowed it down because we had more new players. I played a lot more... "Safe" as Cayvie calls it. That's a fair meta-comparison absolutely. I have NO problems with that.

However, if you carried the meta out, you would see that my play here is NOTHING like M-II, where every word was meticulously crafted. I wrote pages and pages and pages of information AND analysis. You could hardly claim my play in this game in any way matches my play in that game in the simple terms of how I present myself in the game.

Still, one way or another, I'm not a huge fan of meta. I don't like people intentionally playing to a meta because I feel it's ultimately anti-town. I just wanted, or rather hoped, that you would take the time to read and understand how an ACTUAL scum Galz plays. Maybe after I die and flip town you'll be willing to? Up to you... Just a simple (well, perhaps tedious) request.

[timchen]

I am also not a fan of meta either.

But just to comment, indeed in this game you played pretty different. Before our argument, if I recall correctly, you have been terse. Careful and terse.

[pingpongsam]

So, the folks who I see as the scummiest have sauntered in and said, "oh, woes is me, this game requires you to read and attend and actually think and respond and jeez guys, it's moving so fast (even though only 2 people are actually generating much content and 1 guy is posting reasonably but sticking to the same guns and one guy was posting but has disappeared apparently because we are in deadlock) and I can't be bothered to make any analysis and oh well deadline looms you guys sort it out, ok"

Scum is so happy, they don't have to play and Town is left to argue over which Town to kill and if they can't decided who to mislynch they just get attritioned off after deadline.

And we are not punishing the scummiest behavior in the book because.... well, I don't know, why aren't we?

[pingpongsam]

Just to clarify the intensity of my above post: I was working under the assumption deadline was today or tomorrow and just confirmed it to be Monday so a little leniency for the promises that the silent Mafia might actually give us something to work with between now and deadline.

[Eevee]

Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: manda. Thats L-1.

If manda is town, shark_bait almost has to be the lurky mafia. I still think there is a good chance Galz is scum, but I guess less so than previously. PPS and Nick read townier to me, timchen I too am quite sure is town.

[Young Nick]

Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: manda. Thats L-1.

If manda is town, shark_bait almost has to be the lurky mafia. I still think there is a good chance Galz is scum, but I guess less so than previously. PPS and Nick read townier to me, timchen I too am quite sure is town.

Wow, we need a vote count. Having said that, I thought that is only two votes on her. Last vote count was on page 45 or 44 (2-11) and your vote is the only one I have seen change since then. So that means that she is at two votes, as is Galzria.

Yeah...still not contributing much. Still lacking the free time. Still don't like that PPS and others think I am scummy because of real-life commitments and think that the case on manda is weak for that very reason.

I'm praying that while in Florida this weekend I have enough time to post my thoughts. At the very least, I should Sunday night.

[pingpongsam]

The case on manda is weak because you don't have the free time to post so that explains her unwillingness to post anything of substance?

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-12

shark_bait (1): Young Nick
Galzria (2): Galzria, timchen
manda2014 (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
Eevee (1): shark_bait

Not Voting {1}: manda2014

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 13, at 8:00 p.m. forum time (EDT)

[Eevee]

I am definitely still wanting the Galz lynch, but it seemed like no one wanted to hammer so I thought we'd better start finding new targets before the deadline creeps on us.

Although, no one wanting to hammer Galzria when he's playing that scummy is actually one hell of a scum tell.

[pingpongsam]

I am definitely still wanting the Galz lynch, but it seemed like no one wanted to hammer so I thought we'd better start finding new targets before the deadline creeps on us.

Although, no one wanting to hammer Galzria when he's playing that scummy is actually one hell of a scum tell.

Agreed, I could be convinced to hammer Galz on Monday. I'm really anxious to see the lurkers actually give us something but I suspect we will get more of the same.

[timchen]

I'll express my concern here:

I believe Galz is mafia. Some of his response gives me a town feeling, but they are not consistent-- that is, I cannot find consistency for his logic level and his play and his unwillingness to read through my posts if he is town.

Problem is, if he flipped town (however improbable that is), I am really at a loss. Shall I really believe his case on eevee? There actually are some valid concerns. Or shall I believe PPS's evaluation that there are no scum on Galz's wagon (that is, eevee is not scum?)

One thing that does not help the situation is the lurkiness of YN, sharky, and manda. If Galz is scum as I anticipated, there has to be at least two townies among them.

Word for the two townies: your lurkiness helps the mafia tremendously. This is because Galzria's partner right now is having a hard time. Galzria is self-voting. What should his partner say? Supporting or busing can all be fatal if he (she) is not faking it right. The easiest way to play for his partner is to semi-lurk. But that play is not going to work if you come in and say more.

The lurkiness also does not help Galzria. Even if he is town, we may be forced to lynch him (not that I won't be happy about it, but just to point this out) just because we do not have enough case on other people.

eevee, I'd like to hear from you more about your change-of-mind on Manda.

[Eevee]

@tim

tomorrow, sleep to clear my head now 

[Young Nick]

Alive. Finally at a computer and alive. Going to read as much as I can tomorrow. I never even got on the computer to see Galzria at L-1 while he was there!

The case on manda is weak because you don't have the free time to post so that explains her unwillingness to post anything of substance?

Yes. I don't have free time to post. manda has not posted much either. I trust that this is not an unwillingness to post anything of substance, as you suggest, but rather an inability. It might be mafia play, but it very well might be real-life commitments. Why gun for her when apparently there are many out here who are willing to vote for Galzria? I'm not saying I am willing; I haven't read all of the game, so I am not really ready to vote for anyone, and speaking of that, Unvote. But, how could anyone in their right minds vote for manda when they are already considering voting for Galzria? It baffles me. One person you have a case on due to their play, the other might be scummy because they haven't been active.

Come on here, it's a newbie-friendly game. This means you have to understand that many of us realized this was a big investment of time, but not how big of an investment in time. And to point it out with such sass, too...Sheesh