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[Galzria]

Well, I have no intention of controlling Timchen's vote, so at this point the whole thing is largely ignorable to me.

Timchen, your order is this: Of you are town, vote for whoever you like. If you are scum, vote for yourself... j/k Vote for whoever you like.

[timchen]

@eevee: I am not abandoning my wincon. Can't you see I am still trying to get people voting on Galzria? Unless both YN and sharky agree to vote for Galzria whether I voted for him doesn't really matter. Think my action as a desperate measure to get people think more carefully on Galzria.

Thing is, I have a feeling that you get better understanding of the situation between me and Galzria, because you were following it closely. You realize how much time Galz chose not to reply, and then changed his mind. You read each article after you have some thoughts about the previous ones. The others now have no such privileges. What they saw is a wall of text with confusing logic. (My argument is to some extent complicated by nature and Galz's is meant to confuse people even more.)

As far as I can see YN is just confused by it, and sharky still got me wrong. PPS I am not sure but it seems to me that he likes Galz's style of play so much that he just labels him town (IMO that is what he did in M6 too) and that I cannot help. And I assume Manda to be the remaining mafia so nothing can be done there.

[timchen]

@Galz: Got you. My intention as town right now (as I announced) is to vote anyone you vote for.
Unvote

[Young Nick]

I'm not all that confused, but more pressed for time. Rush-reading such an argument does nothing to help internalize the situation. I'm refraining from posting much on it until I can give it its proper attention. I've read most of the recent posting (p42+) but am not yet caught up. Not too much time now. Secretly posting from work.

For now, the only thing that I can say for certain, I already said...er demonstrated:

[timchen]

I am sorry about it Young_Nick 

@PPS: I found your assertion that both me and Galzria are town quite interesting. I would assume you saying this knowing yourself is also town. If that is the case, then there are no scum on the first 4 people on the frisk wagon. Can you explain how it is possible for both of the scum to refuse to lynch a townie for such a long time?

[Galzria]

Vote: Manda

Pro-lurker, and while I really found YN scummy D1, I didn't get the same feeling that he was trying to play up mine and Timchen's conflict today. If, as I now strongly believe, Tim and I are both town (Tim, master props to you if you are pulling this wild-ass crazy as Mafia), then I need to focus on who has been happy to encourage it along.

Eevee and Manda stand out, PPS is slightly behind that. YN and Sharkie have read null/confused to me.

Manda gave off a town read to me D1. She's been playing safe all game. And her lurker playstyle has gotten a handful of Mafia through to victory in previous games.

If it's not Timchen or I, this feels like a good place to start.

[timchen]

Vote:Manda

But I have to say in my heart I still want to lynch Galzria first.

[timchen]

And don't forget manda is L-1 now, and if galz is scum and manda is not, lynching her meant scum galz's victory.

[Eevee]

manda, rush over here and defend yourself now!

[Galzria]

I am sorry about it Young_Nick 

@PPS: I found your assertion that both me and Galzria are town quite interesting. I would assume you saying this knowing yourself is also town. If that is the case, then there are no scum on the first 4 people on the frisk wagon. Can you explain how it is possible for both of the scum to refuse to lynch a townie for such a long time?

Put yourself in their shoes: A no-lynch benefits them, as they start the game with a free NK basically. If there's no chance of a wagon forming on one of them, why SHOULD they do the scummy thing of pushing a town wagon? Add into the fact that a wagoneer died, and not somebody off the wagon, and there is a decent chance neither Mafia were on. I stated my belief in this very early in the day.

Consider as well that f.DS has never actually reached no-lynch, we've always lynched at deadline. There's every reason to believe that it would've happened here. The only two wagons that could tip were CF, and myself. Both town. So why in the world would they have voted CF? Let town do the ugly work... Because inevitably they always do.

[Galzria]

manda, rush over here and defend yourself now!

Your scummate getting close to lynch? Didn't see that coming, did you?

[Eevee]

manda, rush over here and defend yourself now!

Your scummate getting close to lynch? Didn't see that coming, did you?

Lol. Lynching someone because you say so worries me a lot, given how I still think there is a very good chance you are scum. If we lynch a townie and mafia kills at night, have 3 townies and two mafia left so lylo? Then if we hit scum (say we lynced manda today, we'd probably lynch you tomorrow is she was town) and mafia would kill again at night, we'd be at 2 townies and mafia? Am I right to think we still have room for one mistake (even in the worst case scenario of no power role / power role dead before it matters)?

I do acknowledge the case for manda (lurkiness etc), but a) she has done some moderately townie things, although nothing that huge and b) the case is fairly weak and now we have her at l-1 which worries me.

I am fine with pursuing the manda case but it would make me more comfortable if someone unvoted so she can at least defend herself when she gets here.

[timchen]

@eevee: no, if manda is town and Galz is scum, we cannot make the mistake of lynching her. This is because Galzria controls my vote. So if he is scum and manda is not he will control 3 votes tomorrow and is already majority.

[Eevee]

@eevee: no, if manda is town and Galz is scum, we cannot make the mistake of lynching her. This is because Galzria controls my vote. So if he is scum and manda is not he will control 3 votes tomorrow and is already majority.

And yet you say you are playing to your wincon? >ÅPOGKAÖOLÖGAÖAMÖlgm aÖLkmgsömaö lseagpa nm
This is infuriating.

[timchen]

Yes. I believe Galzria is scum. The best chance for me to win is to lynch him today. To achieve that I think I have to sacrifice the tiny chance that manda is town AND the town decides to lynch her.

But here's something interesting: if PPS you are not scum, and Galz is partner with either YN or sharky, they can just come in and quick hammer. And the scum wins. So PPS you probably should unvote for now if you are town.

[timchen]

Or ok, that is a scary thought. Unvote. I'll keep my promise though. For now I'll only vote for manda, just not sure when. Or unless Galz explicitly commands me doing so.

[Galzria]

I never told you to in the first place.

[timchen]

I said in the first place if you say nothing I will vote for whoever you votes for, whenever I want.

[Galzria]

I said in the first place if you say nothing I will vote for whoever you votes for, whenever I want.

That's your choice, not mine.

[timchen]

True. The fact that you now have double voting power does not change though.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-10

shark_bait (1): Young Nick
Galzria (1): Eevee
manda2014 (2): pingpongsam, Galzria

Not Voting {3}: manda2014, shark_bait, timchen

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 13, at 8:00 p.m. forum time (EDT)

[pingpongsam]

There will be no scum quick hammer on manda because there doesn't appear to be good reason for a scum bussing with town at each other's throats.

[timchen]

@PPS: you do have a point that no quick hammer does imply that Manda is scummy (from my point of view Galz buses her.) But it's not that certain as YN and sharky do not seem to be online much. I currently have no problem about your vote staying where it is. But if such that either YN or sharky drops their vote on Manda as well, and Galz explicitly requests me to vote for her, can you unvote then? (I think in your theory this probably is not that likely to happen, but just in case)

[manda2014]

Wow, go to work and everyone tries to kill you XD

Okay but in all seriousness, all this business with timchen has me so utterly confused. Every explanation timchen has put forward for his behavior just seems to ridiculous to me. He says it's a desperate play to get us to lynch Galz so that his vote goes back to normal, but there's no way of knowing that's going to work. If we weren't so close to lylo, I'd advocate for a policy lynch, but as it is... I don't know what to do. It's such crazy play that it makes me think that either timchen is town or they're both scum. I really doubt scum would ever promise town a vote, and if he is scum he can't abandon the crazy if Galz hits his scumbuddy or everyone wil be crazy suspicious of him. I guess it could be a really insane coordinated scum move but it still seems way too ridiculous...

What do you guys think is the possibility of one of the two of them being our cop?

[timchen]

Manda, what do u mean you don't know if it is going to work? If galz is dead I then have no promises to keep. And my goal of lynching the obv scum in my eyes is fulfilled so I won't have to appeal to extreme measures.

About the cop, again I can ensure you that if I were the cop, I didn't investigate galzria.